how would a Z400 compare?

[eotrx400ex]

thinking of getting something different, so how would a semi stock ( pipe,K&N) Z400 compare..power reliability to my 416ex with stg.2 hot cam?

[f4iracer]

it will probably beat your 416.

i was running my 400ex with a slip on and air filter against a kfx 400 with an fmf slip on, after 2nd gear he was walking ahead of me.

those kfx 400's are pretty fast just being stock, they'll smoke a stock 400ex.

[eotrx400ex]

Originally posted by f4iracer
it will probably beat your 416.

i was running my 400ex with a slip on and air filter against a kfx 400 with an fmf slip on, after 2nd gear he was walking ahead of me.

those kfx 400's are pretty fast just being stock, they'll smoke a stock 400ex. interesting but not a big fan of kawa.. i asked about the Z400 as in LTZ400.. keep in mind mines not stock. not sure if your ex was when you raced?

[cataway]

LOL dude its the same machine

[MIZZOUrider89]

Yeah they have the exact same engine. When my z400 was bone stock I raced a stock EX and I didnt dust it or blow it away but I beat it everytime by at lease 4 lengths (100yd race) When I put the Filter, header, silencer, CDI box, and rejetted I completely blow it away, all those mods you can do for under $1000 easy.

[eotrx400ex]

Originally posted by cataway
LOL dude its the same machine uh don't know if you could say its the same machine..isn't the z400 dual cam plus being water cool. theres no advantage there? the motors are totaly different...stock 11.3:1 forged piston, head, valve design. bore/stroke. oh well, was just curious

[danthrop]

i think by same machine he meant the kfx 400 and ltz are basically the same just different plastics. not that the 400ex and the z400 are the same. i can murder my buddys 416 ex with my full yosh exhaust, k&n, and rejetting all day long on my z.

[eotrx400ex]

Originally posted by danthrop
i think by same machine he meant the kfx 400 and ltz are basically the same just different plastics. not that the 400ex and the z400 are the same. i can murder my buddys 416 ex with my full yosh exhaust, k&n, and rejetting all day long on my z. ooooh ok, my bad;) thanks for pointing that out, and even now knowing that i still wouldn't go with a kawa:D just my preference. really, i didn't know the z was that much faster

[twincat800]

I dont know if youve dynoed your 416ex but you can see my mods below and what kind of power i made with my quad. I probably selling mine soon but doubt you live near detroit

[250Renvy]

Originally posted by twincat800
I dont know if youve dynoed your 416ex but you can see my mods below and what kind of power i made with my quad. I probably selling mine soon but doubt you live near detroit

How much? What year?

[f4iracer]

I think the kawasaki is the best looking of the 3 machines.

2 of my friends now have these quads and i can't figure out how to beat them, haha.....any ideas?

i'm running a 400ex with a slip on and an air filter. it's rejetted with a 152 mainjet.

i can get them off the line when my front wheels stay down but he always pulls on me after 2nd gear.

[f4iracer]

I think the kawasaki is the best looking of the 3 machines.

2 of my friends now have these quads and i can't figure out how to beat them, haha.....any ideas?

i'm running a 400ex with a slip on and an air filter. it's rejetted with a 152 mainjet.

i can get them off the line when my front wheels stay down but he always pulls on me after 2nd gear.

[twincat800]

I dont know much about the 400ex quads but im sure an aftermarket header or a set of cams would help

[f4iracer]

i found a dvx 400 i can beat haha. If the rider weighs 40lbs more than me i can win!

[killer454]

both the honda 400ex and z400 are very good machines but here are the differences in the engine in stock form for both.

honda compression ratio from factury=9-1
z400=11.3-1

this is why a z400 will beat a 400ex and pull away

now here is my 400ex mods
11-1 compression,stage 1 hotcam,t-4 pipe,175 jet

heres my naphews z400 mods
aftermarket pipe white/brothers,160 main jet dj kit,thats it no other mods.

when we race i beat him everytime

a stock 400ex cant beat a stock z400 because of the compression differences from factory.but if you raise the hondas compression up to match the z400s you will take it in a race heads up.

[MANIAK 88R]

My wife has a DVX and we did all of the standard mods, then we changed the piston and the cams, then added the edlebrock carb and this thing is still a freakin tird.

I hate riding with her because even full chicken that bike isn't even close to my 250r.

She wants to put an athena kit on it but I don't want to waste the money unless its going to turn her bike into a rocket.

Suzuki needed to add another gear to this thing. I've messed with the gearing to the point where it nearly stalls in 1st and this thing still runs out of gears before the motor falls off.

WHERE'S 6TH !!!!!!!!!

[honda_rider21]

hey man my kfx 400 will outrun my friends 426 so yeah

[MANIAK 88R]

Okay, lets compare apples to apples. In comparison to other 4 strokes, my wifes bike is fairly fast. My 250r is a Laeger Protrax with an ESR 350PV motor in it running on methanol. It's somewhere in the range of 70 hp and the way I have it geared we've clocked it pinned in 6th at 131 mph on asphalt. Going from my bike to her's is like getting out of an indy car into a pinto.

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to bag on the 400's, I actually have alot of fun on her bike, I just like high speed desert / dune riding and it needs more gears.

I haven't put much effort into her bike so I need to find an engine solution for it with a larger displacement that will still be rider freindly and reliable.

[twincat800]

Compared to your 70horse 250r you wont get a 400 4-stroke based quad near as fast as that, the best thing you can probably do is let you wife ride it and you stay off it lol

[RATPACK Z400]

Yeah I know what you mean when i step off my 1000cc ski-doo motor banshee dawm that Z is slow! that sure is a stupid thing too come on here and say (250r guy). were not stupid ,your just bragging on here about your 250r WHO CARES about your 250r DUDE! there talking about 400exs/ Z,s not 70hp 250rs !

[MANIAK 88R]

My appologies, I wasn't bragging, I need to give up my younger years, become ecologically friendly and by a 4 stoke. Putting aside my long love of 2 strokes, I do like the honda and the zuke. I have ridden both, they both feel very comfortable due to the fact that they are both loosely built on 250R geometry. I think in a top speed contest the Honda can out pull a Z. When I bought my wifes DVX (Z), I was disappointed compared to a 400EX. I had only ridden hondas and everyone I talked to said the Z was better all the way around. I have spent nearly as much money upgrades to the z as I did purchasing it. The 400 Honda I had was stock accept for a supertrapp and a jet kit. Imo the honda performs better..... BUT...... its freakin air cooled, that's a crapper.


It's nice to see we have such friendly ATV enthusiasts around here. Thanks for the beating, I'll leave my R out of it from now on. LOL

[RATPACK Z400]

Just giving you Hell ! if you put money in upgrade on the z and didn,t get that much out of it you did something wrong! modded the right way ,450 carb/big-bore kit 400ex airboot/filter that Z would eat ANY Ex alive ! and work over some 450,s,banshees,250rs with mild mods! It didn,t win a championship agains,t the 450,s/250rs (2002-2003-4)cause it was slow!

[Pipeless416]

this is a topic i feel i can really add my 2 cents to. i have a fully built 416ex, and my dad owns a full exhaust, filter, jetted without lid Z. we have raced many many times on every difference surface. if i can get any traction, i walk away easily off the line. my 416 hits hard on the bottom, and the Z's top end evens it out a little bit, though being fully built, i still pull. my dad is quite a bit heavier than me, but my quad is much heavier than his. we put my lighter than me brother on the Z just to have the same results, but not quite as bad. i think when a lot of people say 416ex, they don't have a clue about supporting mods and what works well together.

that being said, it is not a blow out, and the Z ONLY has a full exhaust and a filter. once you start going to internal mods, the EX will not stand a chance. the Z has so much more potential, and dollar for dollar, will make more power than the 400ex.

[MANIAK 88R]

Like I said, I haven't spent much time on my wife's Z. At least the consensus is the z is a better platform. I need to go searching for the best internal mods to do for her.

[dvx440/440ex]

when mie was stock the wifes 440ex would pull mine put a athena kit carb and head work in it walked away added a stroker now it runs away raced both on flat track z has more but the ex isnt a slouch by any means

[RATPACK Z400]

Its rider knowing hes quad aswell too you need to know when to shift your probably better at it than your brother/dad .I rode with over 12 exs with different mods 416,440,502exs the only one i couldn,t beat in drag was the 502ex and id take him to 3rd gear before he caught me and all of those ex rider have been riding 15+yrs Im good at dragging them but all the exs Ive ran exept the 502ex Ive won hands down.i only have pipe /filter/tires .tire on rear make huge difference does your dads Z have aftermaket tire ,if it dont change your tire with him then race you,ll see a big difference to stock tires !both the ex and z weight about the same.Not saying that a well built ex wont beat Z but its alot to do with rider know when to shift ,here an example after beatting the exs two fellow riders on raps raced me beat one (he got mad and pulled off )the other tied me then second race he won by a quad then next race he beat me by 3 quad and he had motor work done.he just learned to shift better!

[Pipeless416]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Its rider knowing hes quad aswell too you need to know when to shift your probably better at it than your brother/dad .I rode with over 12 exs with different mods 416,440,502exs the only one i couldn,t beat in drag was the 502ex and id take him to 3rd gear before he caught me and all of those ex rider have been riding 15+yrs Im good at dragging them but all the exs Ive ran exept the 502ex Ive won hands down.i only have pipe /filter/tires .tire on rear make huge difference does your dads Z have aftermaket tire ,if it dont change your tire with him then race you,ll see a big difference to stock tires !both the ex and z weight about the same.Not saying that a well built ex wont beat Z but its alot to do with rider know when to shift ,here an example after beatting the exs two fellow riders on raps raced me beat one (he got mad and pulled off )the other tied me then second race he won by a quad then next race he beat me by 3 quad and he had motor work done.he just learned to shift better!

my tires are the ones that don't hook up and my brother is a VERY good rider. i knew you'd chime in because you can't stand the fact that the Z is not the fastest quad in the world. but no, my fully modified ex is faster than my dad's full exhaust and filter Z. what is so hard to believe about that? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[RATPACK Z400]

Im not saying that a drag ported 416ex cant beat a Z just never seen one thats just built for dragging .the one Ive raced were trail quads with kits. just because he,s a good rider does,nt mean hes a good shifter when it comes to dragging! Im sure a drag motor 416 can win but a regular trail quad with 416 kit and not extreme drag porting etc would have a to be spot on shifting to come close IMO .like I said Ive never seen a ex win exept the 502 ex my friend has.

[RATPACK Z400]

My Z with 22fronts/20rears 14front /38 rear sprokets I got 73 mph I did same with EX and got 65mph with same size tire,s /sprokets sizes. the motor on the Z has more RPM,s I think it rev,s 1900-2000 rpm,s higher than the EX. Its one of the first modern 4 stroke dual cam high performance motor,s now the rest of the manufactors are making new 4 stroke dual cam motors for MX . thanks to the Z !Oh and it was first 4-stroke to take down mighty 250r ! in MX

[Pipeless416]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Im not saying that a drag ported 416ex cant beat a Z just never seen one thats just built for dragging .the one Ive raced were trail quads with kits. just because he,s a good rider does,nt mean hes a good shifter when it comes to dragging! Im sure a drag motor 416 can win but a regular trail quad with 416 kit and not extreme drag porting etc would have a to be spot on shifting to come close IMO .like I said Ive never seen a ex win exept the 502 ex my friend has.

who said mine was set up for drag? because it definitely is not. and are you really bragging about top speeds now? i'm just going to sit this one out before i bruise your ego some more. and yes, my brother and i both know how to shift very well :rolleyes:

[2001400exrida]

i got a buddy who brags about top speed.


I'm like dude i'll beat you 0-60 and that's what i think faster means. I'm not talking about who can lean over and bury their throttle until they climb to the maximum mph. that's not how these are made.

to me. fast means who wins 0-60mph.

[RATPACK Z400]

did,nt say anyones was set up for dragracing,Said that thats the kind of setup you would need to beat a Z , with EX .

[2001400exrida]

that's not true. My 416 will beat a piped z400, kfx400 and a dvx400 with slip on/air filter.

you don't have to have a tricked out drag 400ex to beat a z400. you are very mistaken about ex's if you think the z400 is that much faster.

[RATPACK Z400]

The fact is the Z IS the better all around quad period ! it won MX championships agains,t the mighty 250r,yfz450,crf450 hybred the EX has won nothing in the pro class and was introduced 4 yrs before the Z .The Z hybred/regular Z beat the 250r,and other hybreds ,yfz450,trx450 no EX has done that and the reason is it does,t have the hp,s the Z has at 440-450 cc .they did test with the two in DW yrs ago put 440,s in both the Z ran away from the EX , It put a severe spanking on the EX !

[2001400exrida]

hey ratpack, whatever you gotta think to help you sleep at night buddy.

there's absolutely no argument as to which quad is better "all around".

you can claim all the race specs but you CANNOT AND WILL NOT say that the ltz400 is a better all around quad than the 400ex. that's just simply not true. hell just look at the number of 400ex owners vs. the ltz owners, do you think that is a coincidence? no it's because the ex's are still running and you can buy em all over the place.

sorry to be in this section stating these facts, but it's ridiculous.

2 of my friends have the z's they're fast and they ride good yes, but they're much too tall, much to heavy and much to mechanically unsound for the serious quad rider.

the 400ex is a beast, it has WAAAAAYYYY more modifications that can be done, and it's built to last.

the 400ex has had plenty of time to work out all of their issues, which wasn't many.

[RATPACK Z400]

Look the honda 400 Ex is a good quad very reliable handles well ,Suzuki just built a better quad hands down this has been proven with its track record/Mags/pro-riders have said this. better motor(cant urgue with that)when modded(a-arms/axle) handling about same on both Its the motor that its handicap! And yes there,s more EX out there, they were the first sportquad built in 14yr by honda ! and yes EX has more Mods but what does that matter its still slow you would be lucky to get EX over 50hps(at 500cc,s) without it grenading.The Z just at 450cc,s can do that and more ! just look the Dyno forum and look at Cataway,s 484 build he getting 57 hp thats insane ! NO EX could do that without NOS.And ride height is about what 1/2 inch higher !I just cant stand it when people on here say my EX is the best quad and your sucks! and the BS storys of beating 450,s etc is so funny cause most people on here know it BS. I dont ever put down someone,s quad unless they ask for it.

[RATPACK Z400]

Im not downing the Ex as a trail quad its a GREAT trail quad , suzuki just built a better One ! same thing happened with the suzuki LTR250 ,Honda came out with the 250r with slightly better handling to beat the LTR250. same thing with Ex and Z , its just the Z was at time built to compete with 250r and be a great trail quad and did ! there was nothing at the time that could race the 250r and win the Z opened peoples eyes to what a 4-stroke with new technology can do and now we have the 450,s thanks to it. EX was never built to race and when built just didn,t have the power at 440cc to win at pro level like the Z did. Those are the straight FACTS !

[2001400exrida]

hp and racing i'm not going to argue.

you said the z was a better base and a better all around quad so i argued that opinion of yours.

sure the z may have a more powerful powerplant, but that's not to say it's more reliable than the honda powerplant.

[RATPACK Z400]

Once you mod EX it reliablity is out the window ! same for anything you mod . So when picking between two if performance is what you want in 400cc quad Z,s it ! Ex just cant complete with it in that arena .so if all you wants a reliable quad you buy EX, if performance is what your looking for then you go with Z !IMO both great handling quads just one has a better motor for the track than the other ,the EX motor was built in the 60,s maybe 50,s if Im not mistaken. just outdated performance ! Z,s motor is also very reliable aswell !

[Minndave13]

If I may. In all reality it is what the owner of the quad wants. I was a marine mechanic for over eight years. Question always asked was which one is better- boat motor x or boat motor y? My answer was always to ask which is a better truck? Ford, Chevy, or Dodge? Some think Ford's are better, some think Chevy's are better. It is all a matter of opinion, and opinion's are like ******&^e's every one has one. Do some research, save some coin, and pick which one you want. In the end that is what matters.

[RATPACK Z400]

There two different kinds of motors one is aircooled single overhead cam(built in late 50,s) the other is dual overheadcam liquid cooled (built in late 90,s ,Ex motor 50hps tops Z 60hp tops also Z can have carb/FI ,better stocks etc. Z can be made to hang/beat 250r/450,s Ex can not! If they were just different brand,s same kind of motor would be different these are two way different motors. the two motors are like a plain straight 6cylinder ford van motor from 1960 agains,t v-6 24valve dual cam/ turbo from a 1998 mishubishi.(EXAMPLE).

[odog]

z's are fast but your making them out to being alot faster than what they really are.

[RATPACK Z400]

You put the mods on the Z like you got on your Ex and the Z would eat it alive ! Thats just the FACT. Not trying to say the EX is a piece ,just not a performance quad like the Z ,Its a trail quad and thats all it was built for !do you know the Z was the first 4-stroke to win a national Championship against the 250r/YFZ450/CRF450 and the Ex was out 4 yrs before it and couldn,t come close!

[odog]

i ride with a heavily moded kfx 400 as a matter of fact its right here in my backyard beside my 400ex so im not telling you what i think im telling you what i know :) mod for mod it might be faster than mine but it will not leave me by any means we both moded our quads i always had a little more engine because i modded mine first but its always been a close race i just pull away on top end because i have more engine with the mods that he has done to his from what the engine kit says that he has he should have more hp than i do but it hasnt been dynoed and his bike doesnt have anything on mine

[MANIAK 88R]

I got attached to this thread because of my wife's DVX 400, all of this back and forth is making me dizzy. I'm glad that my bike is a laeger protrax with an ESR 350. The guys on the 250r threads aren't this competitive. I mean, does it really matter who can out run or out pull who? The EX and the Z's were both based off of 250R geometry anyway. Quit arguing, sell those slow pokes buy a 25 year old 2 stroke and woop all the 4-strokes.

[odog]

ill keep my slow pope i dont like getting my bike rebuilt all the time.

[RATPACK Z400]

Look it all comes down to motor to motor cause everything else the same (frame,stem,swing,a-arms,etc) if your gonna tell me a 1950,s single cam ex motor is better than a 1998-9 Z motor that dual cam design now with FI you crazy! as for 250r yes there awesome just not for track anymore the 4-strokes have broke all 250r,s records at tracks and are just the best choice for Mx /GNNC (running only 2-3seconds behind bikes).Thanks to the Z400 beating the 250r on track opened the eyes to what a 4-stroke can do ! now you have even faster 4-stroke cause of that NAC,S hybred Z440 racing 250r,s ! Ex was out 4yrs before Z and couldn,t win agains,t the 250r The Z on track is supior to the Ex FACT and can hold its own with 250r.were the EX could never ! thats how I see it. Im done. HA HA

[odog]

ratpack you might be right im not arguing on witch motor is best or what happens on the tracks with pros and in magazines im telling you whats happening with me and people that i ride with on a daily basis.i never said the ex was a faster bike stock for stock or mod for mod i said a z-400 isnt nearly as fast as an ex as you make it seem ive lost to a kfx and a z before but know that my bike is built in my area i have one of the fastest 400 exs or 400 anything for that matter.so im good either way reality is a z accelerates faster through the gears than an ex so in a race the z will probly pull 2-3 bikes and just stay there threw the race.but the ex will still be right there with it.so unless it just for drag racing the z will be faster than the ex. only problem is if your buying it for drag racing the z or ex wouldnt even be a real choice at all.ahahhahahahha

[RATPACK Z400]

Oh yeah for sure the both aren,t drag bikes ! but for track the Z is the best starter quad of the two in 400cc,s. Im sure your 460 kicks butt My friend had 502 ex that thing was fast and had mega torque .I use to beat him to 3rd gear then he came on like a banshee, was as fast as some Lightly modded raptors !But he spent a fortune to get it there. and was only getting 45-46hps back in 2004 now im sure you could get 50hps now with all the improvements in porting and dyno tunning . but you bore/stroke Z to 480-500cc,s you can get 60+hps . And the Z will top out at 73mph where the Ex with same gearing/tires will only do 65mph from what ive seen(had Ex till it got stolen). I only wish i could do to my quad what you done to yours Im married with Kids .HA HA dont think im ragging on your Ex yours im sure kick butt around your area must be awesome to have fastest in area!Whats your top speed with a 16/38 gearing?

[odog]

yeah im married with kids also and my quad will outrun lightly modded raptors also.on the top end im not sure i have a trail tech vapor installed the fastest that it read was 95.5 how true that is i dont know i know when i got it installed it was accruate up to 60mph but it didnt get tested any farther my mechanic said at that speed he couldnt keep looking down at it and keep hollaring at the guy on the streetbike.put i know it does 80mph plus.

[RATPACK Z400]

thats fast ! i knew with your gearing at 16/38 you would be way faster on top speed than stock gearing. do you hill climb that beast ? Thats all we do when we go to PA to ride those coal hills are insane compared to dune out west there like straight up at some points and takes lots of torque to get up my buddys 502ex was king of the hillclimbs !

You posted in a Z forum. I know my 416 XC built 08 400ex would blow theese z400s away, i can run with slightly modded 450s. You posted in a biased forum that thinks there quad will beat anything out there because they have a 400 with water cooling. If you put a 11:1 piston in the ex to make it equivalent to the 11;1 stock in the Z the EX would win everytimne unless the rider absolutly sucked

[MANIAK 88R]

OMG..... FORD/CHEVY......POT/KETTLE........

Rodney King "can't we all just get along"

Oh, ya did I mention that my wifes DVX400 is faster than an F16 but my buddies EX is only as fast as an FA18.... LOL

Really, can't we just stop this already.. PLEEEEEEEASE

[RATPACK Z400]

Run everybody here comes a 416 Ex ! just joking. hey honda 416 dude you should look at dyno,s on both at same cc,s then you see the difference !

[MANIAK 88R]

ROTFLMAO !!!!

[QuadOwner]

i know this is old, but i cant get over how rat pack thinks the 400ex engine dates back to the 50s lol. that design with the radial 4 valve head has been around since the 80s, but the 400 engine itself only since 96 in the xr400

[odog]

yeah this is a very old thread and yes my 400ex is still the fastest one in the area

[cheater13]

Psh, i beat z400s all day!:devil:

[Rohr397]

Here's all I have to say in favor of the Z, liquid cooling over air cooling.

Just pulled my near lifeless motor out of the 400ex, the top end is completely gold and blue and destroyed from heat. I was using all kinds of cooling mods, but the bottom line is that the 400ex motor straight up can't handle riding in the upper third of the RPM's which is how I ride and I ride in pretty hot places so that doesn't help either. The 400 is ergonomically more comfortable for me, it handles great and it holds it's own well on the trails, but from a racing perspective you can't do the same things on a 400ex that you can do a z400 given you're comparing two equally built quads. The Z was built for racing, the Ex was built for everyone, and even though the Z has taken a back seat to the 450's, there's no denying it's far more designed to race then the 400ex and performance wise that's proven. It's not all around better but I'd say it wins 75% of the time you put them head to head at the track with equal riders.

[Timgoob]

own them both like them both top speed is not much of a factor when you race xc can only go so fast between the trees.
you can dial either of these two in just the way you like them and be very happy and competitive. can,t we all just get our ride on.