port timing for 330r?

[way2fast4u_250R]

got mi esr 330 cylinder today-looks very rough-not happy, cheap price-it is going to be ported by another builder as i new i would have to-what portt timing is best for dune riding & hill racing?
i know what mi builder told me-i would like to hear you guys thought-paul

[mx Eli]

the whole paragraph made no sense to me:huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by way2fast4u_250R
what portt timing is best for dune riding & hill racing?
i know what mi builder told me-i would like to hear you guys thought-paul

Dune riding and hill racing are is like comparing apples to oranges....You can pick somewhere in the middle but that just means you won't be the fastest on the hill and you may not have the best dune-able bike.

What did your builder suggest for port timing, head set up? Can you post pictures of the so called rough port work? Intake is an area that is usually left rough for mixture reasons, it's the Exhaust that should be glass smooth.

hondamancbr03 is correct; you need to pick the purpose of your build if you want the best performance. Or as suggested; you can have a dune & hill racing engine, however; it will be a compromise of both…

Don’t forget the total package; fuel, pipe, head, compression, gearing, riding style, rider weight, ect…If he /she knows there stuff, your engine builder or porter will advice you of the options at hand.

Mx Eli: what; you never heard 250R talk before...? :)

[wilkin250r]

I'm not so sure. Hillshooting is mostly about horsepower, except you don't want all-out lightswitch, you need a little width to your powerband to recover from trouble.

Dune riding is very wide-open, and wheelspin is just a fact of life, so you don't need low-end grunt for traction.

I think a mid-top engine would suit both very well.

Suspension is a different issue, but we're not talking suspension, we're talking motor.

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I'm not so sure. Hillshooting is mostly about horsepower, except you don't want all-out lightswitch, you need a little width to your powerband to recover from trouble.

Dune riding is very wide-open, and wheelspin is just a fact of life, so you don't need low-end grunt for traction.

I happily disagree....I spend my whole quad riding life in the dunes and it's not a wide open throttle life style. Even when riding the largest dunes at Winchester the most for both my 250r or Banshee is 1/2 to 3/4 throttle, and the best thing for a play-able dune bike is bottom mid in my opinion. A dune bike for me and our riding area is built for climbing thick sandy trails which calls for backing off the throttle and getting back into it, a TRUE hillshooter is not ideal for these areas. The first engine builder that was my teacher always said "You have to rob Peter to pay Paul" with two strokes...You want top end it's going to take from the bottom, you want bottom end you take it from the top...Obviously a PV top end helps some in that area.

I recently rebuilt my Banshee and threw in a 4mil and set my port timing at 196/126, with that i'm running 18cc and adjustable LRD adjusted for the timing, it SUCKS as a play bike compared to my 250R....The top end runs like a cut cat but NOT a dune-able bike that i like to ride.

Obviously everything stated above is just my opinion and experience in my riding area....If he doesn't want to be the fastest on the hill but just hang close, and ok with using a little extra clutch out in the dunes, I'm sure he can find a happy medium.

Like Carlos said.....Make sure you tell the engine builder exactly what you want.

[wilkin250r]

And even "dune riding" can vary greatly in different regions, and different riders.

Your riding style makes perfect sense. If you look at Winchester dunes, it has a lot of trees, and a lot of trails. It's not surprising at all that you spend the majority of your time in the mid throttle range.

My dunes, by comparison, have about two trees in the entire area. It's a lot of big, wide open area. There are trails, and I'm riding with others, so I do indeed spend a good deal of time at 1/2 throttle and midrange, but that's not where I WANT my power. I like to wind it out on the wide open stretches, full throttle screaming through bowls, and carving hillsides and razors.

My dunes appear much more wide open than Winchester, my dune riding is mid-high rev.

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
And even "dune riding" can vary greatly in different regions, and different riders.

Your riding style makes perfect sense. If you look at Winchester dunes, it has a lot of trees, and a lot of trails. It's not surprising at all that you spend the majority of your time in the mid throttle range.

My dunes, by comparison, have about two trees in the entire area. It's a lot of big, wide open area. There are trails, and I'm riding with others, so I do indeed spend a good deal of time at 1/2 throttle and midrange, but that's not where I WANT my power. I like to wind it out on the wide open stretches, full throttle screaming through bowls, and carving hillsides and razors.

My dunes appear much more wide open than Winchester, my dune riding is mid-high rev. i have riden both (dumont armagosa) and winchesterbay and there is a lotta difference and agree that u might want diff.powerbands for each w.b. reminded me of coral pink

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
And even "dune riding" can vary greatly in different regions, and different riders.

Your riding style makes perfect sense. If you look at Winchester dunes, it has a lot of trees, and a lot of trails. It's not surprising at all that you spend the majority of your time in the mid throttle range.

My dunes appear much more wide open than Winchester, my dune riding is mid-high rev.

What area do you ride?

To me Winchester is actually one of the more open style dunes I ride on, excluding the small handful of tall dunes it does have. Not enough trail dune riding for my liking....

Not to get off track from the original question......When you commented about building a hillshooter with the ability to recover from a stumble, in my experience if you build a hillshooter (Racer) motor with the thought of recovering from a stumble, you just lose the edge on the people that are building what you reference as the "light switch" style engine.

I do agree that you can build a motor to have fun in both styles of riding, just don't believe you will have the best of either by doing so.....As stated, just my opinion.

[Saleenster]

Lets be honest, no matter how you build a 330, you will never be king of the hill.

Hill shooter vs trail riding with the same motor never blends if you want to be competitve at both. Better to have two different bikes one for each type.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by hondamancbr03
What area do you ride?

When you commented about building a hillshooter with the ability to recover from a stumble, in my experience if you build a hillshooter (Racer) motor with the thought of recovering from a stumble, you just lose the edge on the people that are building what you reference as the "light switch" style engine.

Maybe we aren't thinking the same thing. And maybe I'm the one that's way off base.

If you're talking about drag racing, up a hill (as is very common at the dunes), then yes, a lightswitch is exactly what you want.

Maybe it's just a different terminology. To me, that's still a drag race. When I think of "hill racing", I'm thinking something like this. I don't know about you, but I want a little width to my powerband, because at some point, I'm probably going to need to let off the throttle, and then get back on.

http://thekneeslider.com/images/motorcyclehillclimb.jpg

[mx Eli]

yes I do understand 250r talk I just didnt understnad they way he was saying it with all the dashes and words clumped together

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by Saleenster
Lets be honest, no matter how you build a 330, you will never be king of the hill.

Hill shooter vs trail riding with the same motor never blends if you want to be competitve at both. Better to have two different bikes one for each type.

I completely agree with the two bike theory......As for Kill of the hill with a 330, as long as you race within your class of bikes you can build a 330 to holds it's own....Now i wouldn't pull up to a banshee running a cheetah and side pipes or even a 250R running a Sabertooth. I watch the hill and pull out against people I know are running close to what i'm running, that's how i gauge my success.

wilkin250r,
We could be talking about two different types of riding as you stated, in my area racing the hill is a very competitive thing, you can't believe the money people spend just to ride out to the hill and race a couple times and then take it back to the trailer.....Your picture did not come through.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
When I think of "hill racing", I'm thinking something like this. I don't know about you, but I want a little width to my powerband, because at some point, I'm probably going to need to let off the throttle, and then get back on.

[fearlessfred]

who is that and were is it at ?

[hondamancbr03]

We are comparing apples to oranges.... The hills we race up are just large hills of sand, not tall rocks with a little sand on it. Sweet picture!

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by hondamancbr03
We are comparing apples to oranges.... The hills we race up are just large hills of sand, not tall rocks with a little sand on it. Sweet picture! yea . he knows that. he prob. the only one who thinks that is hill racing. it is pretty cool tho.

[troybilt]

Not to get side tracked... but I remember seeing a bike like that, that had 2 CR500's operating in series... Crazy stuff. Those guys have balls the size of pickle jars.

Reminds me of the Icelanders Formula Offroad hill climbers...

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