Countershaft sprocket

[cannondale27]

It was time to gear the kids quad up.Didnt want to pay for a kit when you can get #40/428 chain and rear sprockets at local Fleetfarm cheap.Problem was countershaft sprocket.None of locals had one and Tucker Rocky and Parts Unlimited dont list any other than newer stock size and only 520.Did a little experimenting with dealers bikes.Turns out our countershaft is same size as many of them.Looked around here and couldnt find anything.Maybe all you guys know this already.But here you go.

[LT80]

Great info! Thanks.

I usually get the stock 428 sprockets (12/26) from Suzuki. They are steel and relatively cheap.

For other size fronts, I get them from Hetrick.

[cannondale27]

I cant believe it pulls 14-24 gearing!12-26 is what was on there for since we got it three years ago.Its all stock other than the rear tires (snow hogs)even seems snappier on bottom end!Still screaming on top but much faster.Kid is really happy and enjoys the berms forming in backyard.Cant wait to see how it helps her at next Harescramble this weekend.All I know is with speed comes $.Already working on shocks for it since the bouncing makes me nervous!

[cannondale27]

It seems like its always at or right after a race when I find these things need work and never enough time between races but will keep Hetrick in mind for next time.
The rears are just blanks they sell right by the #40 chain at Fleet.I just made up a adapter to get the holes on center.Blanks have a bigger I.D. than stock.Stock goes on top.Blank on bottom. Then just put vice grip on both sprocket to keep from moving and drill the holes using stock holes as a guide.Worked great except I didnt know that 24 was smallest to fit hub.Bought a 24 and 22 which you see here.

[LT80]

That was a good idea on how to make the holes.
If your wanting more (you mentioned the the smaller rear) go to a 15 front.

[cannondale27]

Thanks.Yes I think it will pull 15.Will wait till after next race to see how it does on the big hills and deep sand.Wife is freaking out on the speed shes going now.:D

[LT80]

You may need to take out a roller with a 15. :)

Moms.......LOL

[hawaiianbasshed]

hm, I wouldn't mind trying a 14t on my sons bike. it has a 13t on it now, not sure on the rear, I'm guessing it's the speed gearing, it has a midwest mini package on it. had an oversized carb on it previously tho so I don't have the reeds so they're on my list of things to get :D

I never thought it would pull a 14t sprocket but I suppose if I get a trinity pipe it may do better than the FMF pos I have on it now lol.

I'll run it harder and try to hit a nice hill then I'll decide if it could use a 14t sprocket :D

[LT80]

The FMF should be more of a grunter.
You can go to a 14 or 15. That's where you will remove a roller or 2.

[hawaiianbasshed]

yeah, I figured the trinity would be more of a screamer more mid/top end, the FMF is probably louder than stock. looks like a modded bike and may have a little more bottom and mid I suppose... probably not noticeable tho lol the trinity would probably let the bike rev better even without porting I'd imagine... the higher rpms imo would lead to higher top speed... so if I can get it to rev higher AND pull hard enough to run a bigger front I'd be ultimately faster :)

gotta let the kid run it now tho and see how he handles the top speed it has now before making it faster lol

[cannondale27]

I am going to try 15-24 tomorrow.Her motor is stock and it easily pulled the 14-24 even up some good deepsand hills.Still seems quite a bit slower on topend than the Apexs's and one other one that beat her but she now beat her other somewhat stock racers even one on a Predator 90 2st.Had a great day of racing today.She wants more speed so gearing and .030 off head are this week.I still just find the results amazing for a 1985 $300 quad!

[hawaiianbasshed]

why not port it and add a pipe and reeds? only support mods would be clutch, reed cage, carb LOL

I vote full Moore racing national motor with trinity pipe LOL

IF I intended to keep this damm LT80 of ours I'd have to sack up and get one of his motors myself :)

I think a pipe helps them rev a little higher since they pretty much all flow more peak volume than stock. reeds are supposedly good for all around but it's been a while since we had the V-force on my sons bike so I'm thinking of making it work again and putting his 26mm mikuni round slide back on it lol. more air in, more air out, plus more fuel = more power :D makes sense in my head at least lol

[LT80]

"more air in, more air out, plus more fuel = more power"

Can't argue with that. :)
Altho, If nothing is done to increase airflows in the motor, you can put a 40mm carb on it and it won't draw any more air in.

The stock pipe works well. Like mentioned, some other pipes will rev a lil higher.

I can over double the HP and rpm's to 12k+ with stock pipe and carb.
Almost 3x the HP and 13k+ with the Trinity pipe and stock carb.
The FMF pipes seem to be working. :D

[cannondale27]

I am sure it will come to motor mods and LT80 will get the job soon!

[hawaiianbasshed]

Originally posted by LT80
"more air in, more air out, plus more fuel = more power"

Can't argue with that. :)
Altho, If nothing is done to increase airflows in the motor, you can put a 40mm carb on it and it won't draw any more air in.

The stock pipe works well. Like mentioned, some other pipes will rev a lil higher.

I can over double the HP and rpm's to 12k+ with stock pipe and carb.
Almost 3x the HP and 13k+ with the Trinity pipe and stock carb.
The FMF pipes seem to be working. :D

what kind of differences have you noticed on bikes you've done with all three pipes mentioned? I'm curious to know how much of a difference I have between stock and a trinity... I'm sure the peak numbers you imply says the trinity has the most max flow so high rpm power and rev for sure goes to that pipe.. but I'd like to also know where if anything the FMF is better than stock besides noise and how much of a difference will there be between my FMF and a trinity pipe, provided mine is better than stock... I'd really like to get a trinity pipe but I don't see spending the money if my FMF is better than stock I may as well put money into porting and such if I do put any more money into this bike anywhere the port work and support seem like the place to spend the money...

[LT80]

To sum that up...LOL...
I think the FMF can be worked with and be fine. It surely is better than a stock pipe IMO.

[hawaiianbasshed]

so did the 15t work out good? If so you wanna sell the 14t lol. I found one on ebay, it says LT80/yz80 so I'm guessing the one you got for the front works on a yz80 as well?

[cannondale27]

Look at that pic I posted all the dirtbikes with same countershaft are listed.
15 tooth is working good so far.I dont have any big hills on property to try though so that will have to wait till race this weekend.Its still spinning tires on takeoff.Not real sure if its faster on top end or not.Engine still is revving pretty good but I did notice she was two wheeling in the corners so maybe it was because she was going faster will find out this weekend.

[hawaiianbasshed]

so how did the 15t do on hills? I'm eager to know :D

also what size tires are on the rear?

[cannondale27]

Running snow hogs.Bad news for me and you I guess.It did fine on hills plenty of lowend.Now I know why all these huge gearing changes arent doing much at all for topend.Its not shifting out.I went through both clutches and the variator(front) is pretty well shot.Wore bad on both faces,all plastic guides broke,roller grooves are really wore at bottom,looks like the key actually sheared a bit and clutch spun about half a turn.So I imagine once I get clutches working right I will be starting over with gearing.Live and learn.Will be looking clutches over much more often now.Will let you know what it can pull once things are right.Am in need of new or like new variator by next weekend now.

[hawaiianbasshed]

I don't know if it was directly gearing related... midwest mini speed gearing has a 13t front (what's on my son's bike now)

and Lt80 runs 14-26 gearing for MX iirc for his LT80 setups :confused:

I ordered a 14t front I want to try it with snow hogs too... I suppose we'll see how it goes... have you previously opened the variator up and it was much better shape?

take a pic if you can..

[LT80]

"and Lt80 runs 14-26 gearing for MX iirc for his LT80 setups"

Don't know where you seen that.
My motors with stock tires run stock gearing. With smaller tires, a 13 front.

Your stock motor could use a 14 or even a 15 with some clutch tuning.

[cannondale27]

Yes I did.Changed some of the parts at time.But it was almost 2 years ago!Obviously way to long ago but I thought there would be a change in performance to signal a issue.

I turned down the fixed face since it was very wore and expensive.I left a step where splines are.Probably leave washer out when I put it back together.Was this a good idea or mistake?

[cannondale27]

You can see where the keyway went halfway around plate.Not sure if I just didnt have it lined up and it found home or if it sheared its way around.New key and plate for sure though.

[cannondale27]

Very wore movable face.I dont remember if this was replaced or not last time.Rollers are all good.I do remember replacing some of those,the plate and all the cushions last time.

[LT80]

Your variator is scrap. You can see the brass is broke.
The keyway gets like that from either : mis placement or it happens to jump out when you tighten it ( I hold down on the fixxed face till I get the nut on and tight).

You did fine on the machining of the fixxed face.

Unless you have the longer bushing of the 87-88's, you need that washer in there.

[cannondale27]

It is a 87.Was no washer in there.So you dont think the belt will run to low?I was going to buy the newer bushing and skip the washer but if okay with what I have will save me some $.Any chance you have the parts and could ship Priority mail?You know another race this weekend!Thanks LT80!

[hawaiianbasshed]

how do you distinguish between 87-88 and 89+ by looking at the variator? to know if you need to use the washer? or is only the bushing different? I do have a long and short bushing but not sure on the variators if they're different...

[cannondale27]

Good question.When the new parts come I will try to find out if no answer here.Any differences would really effect belt hieght/ratio at least on a snowmobile.Here is my bushing length.I assume it is original and the quad is a 87 built 10/86.There was no washer other than the one for nut.

[LT80]

The variators are the same.
When I build a motor, I install the long bushing.
You can distinguish it now by the measurement supplied above. :)

[hawaiianbasshed]

Originally posted by LT80
"and Lt80 runs 14-26 gearing for MX iirc for his LT80 setups"

Don't know where you seen that.
My motors with stock tires run stock gearing. With smaller tires, a 13 front.

Your stock motor could use a 14 or even a 15 with some clutch tuning.

my mistake :) I thought you said 14t a while back but I actually looked to be sure and you said 13/26 @ 428 pitch, I suppose that's where I got the 4 from lol... sorry.

as for the sprocket causing the damages to the parts. I don't think so. slightly more wear is likely but IMO it'd be just the equivelent of adding taller tires and not ALOT taller maybe like 19-20" rears over 18" still same weight just more height changing final gear ratio. similar to adding a fatter (adult) rider. this is all what I think (opinion) so I mean it could very well happen overnight from larger tooth front sprockets. but I think they're typical wear parts similar to brake pads/rotors.

the variator/plate get wear from normal riding I'd imagine. just more so when lugging a heavier load (tires or adults) and gearing is adding to the load like a taller tire or heavier rider imo) not exACTLY the same but similar type of loading as far as the engine/clutch is concerned imo.

[hawaiianbasshed]

my 14t front sprocket got here today, I didn't really notice a difference but this is the 1st time I rode it with the snow hogs on the rear... so could be similar final gear to having the turf tamers on it lol

will try to get a vid up sometime this weekend if I take my kid riding :)

[cannondale27]

I got the clutches working now.It still pulls 15-24 pretty well but lost some snap.So I tried 1,2 then 3 rollers out.Could not tell much difference between 2,3 out but 2,3 was better than 1 out.Also went back to 15-26 at least till I can get it a bit wider since I envisioned a barrel roll at the speeds it goes now.Chain fits really nice at this ratio also with a 1/2 link.Will be getting the pads in secondary down to 180g?Next week which should get some snap back into the launch at least.I need to get some GPS readings or something for testing but it is noticably faster and revs are way down at top speed compared to before.

[hawaiianbasshed]

hm, I need to count how many teeth my midwest mini rear sprocket has... I'm working on a few things to get snap back. but I also have snow hog 18"s in back now so they're a little shorter than the previous turf tamers :) I had a 13t front and now have a 14t... where'd you get the 26t rear? and was it a blanks?

I'll give updates w/vids in a week or so when all my parts come in and go on the bike :D

[cannondale27]

26T was stock sprocket and came on quad so you should be able to get it anywhere.Looking forward to how yours turns out.

[LT80]

I get the 26 rear from zuki.
About 22 bucks if I remember correct.

[cannondale27]

Kid held 3rd place for one lap then hit a tree and fell to about 10th.She then got back for a 6th place finish.Very happy and she said she did alot of passing on uphill.Shaving head is next.

[hawaiianbasshed]

what were the 1st and 2nd place riders riding? must be expensive bikes I'd imagine lol.

so you have a 14t/26t setup? snow hogs on rear?

[cannondale27]

Apex and a Predator 90 I believe.

15/26 and Snowhogs.Clutch Maintainence
is HUGE importance.

[hawaiianbasshed]

do any other bike rollers fit our variator has anyone ever looked? I was thinking of taking one of my spares into the moped place and see if any fit.. in fact, my rollers and variator :D

I don't see alot of zuki weights and they seem more expensive when I do see them...

would be nice if other variators fit too but I suppose that'd make it too easy lol.

I'm fine with the 14t sprocket we have. I have a midwest mini rear, I need to count the teeth on it I'm not sure what it is.