Lights for Night Riding

[Newt327]

Edit - Added pics of HID lights.


I have a 2007 400 ex and I love riding at night, so i picked up a cheap set of driving lights at Walmart for $18 and mounted them on my bumper. They are 55watt halogan lights and light up a wider area as you can see in the pictures below.

The problem is on my last trip i killed my battery but i was also running the stock lights at the same time so my freinds could see my tail light. I thought about removing the bulbs from the stock head lights so i could turn on the tail light and not have the stock head lights taking any power from the battery.

Anyone have any suggestions or comments? Has anyone else done anythign like this? Should i scratch the idea all together and do the HID upgrade? Does the HID lights pull more power from the battery than the stock lights?

Pictures......

This was before i permantly mounted them, they are just zip tied in place in this pictrue but this is exaclty how i have them mounted.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx21/Newt327/400EX/P7040388.jpg

Stock lights...

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx21/Newt327/400EX/P7040401.jpg

Halogen lights......

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx21/Newt327/400EX/P7040403.jpg

Both stock and halogen lights........

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx21/Newt327/400EX/P7040402.jpg

Newly installed HID lights

Single HID

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx21/Newt327/400EX/HID-Single.jpg

Dual HID

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx21/Newt327/400EX/HID4.jpg

[guenther]

I did a similar thing for a 10 hour race I was in this past weekend, but only used one 55w instead of two. I also run a SPAL fan. I knew I would be maxing out the stator and only used the fan when I thought it was getting hot. The one light was still too much and ended up killing my battery. I'm going to order these when I need to order from RMATV (Rocky Mountain ATV) again:

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/productDetail.do?navType=type&webTypeId=88&navTitle=ATV+Parts&webCatId=24&prodFamilyId=23126

I did some research and read the reviews on the bulbs and they seem to be very good. Here are a couple other options:

-try this PIAA bulbs (found on RMATV)

-get a 200w stator from Ricky Stator and you can run one or possibly both lights.

-turn off your stock lights but you would still be pushing your stator with the 110W from new lights.

-use one light and get a 35w bulb off eBay instead of the 55w.

-go HID but that's a whole other can of worms.

There are probably other guys that can add more to the list of possibilities but I'm going to go with the most obvious and inexpensive (with the exception of the stator). If you type "lights" into the search bar you will find lots of additional information. Hope this helps.

[CJM]

An HID light draws even less power. What I would do is is take a hella 500 or 700 free form (ff designated on box) and use 1 single HID in it and run that.

My buddy has one on his truck, requires a bit of fab work to make the bulb fit in the light but its so worth it. Just (1) 6 or 8 inch light will light up everything better.

[clemsonteg]

You can also buy a couple relays, use the headlight power to trigger the relay, and run power from the battery to the relay and from the relay to the headlight. That way you aren't losing power buy going through the tiny headlight switch. I actually plan to do this, as well as do the super white bulbs, or I might just do the DDM tuning HIDs, which will basically require the same wiring scenario.

Here is a photo to explain

http://www.rowand.net/shop/tech/images/HeadlightRelayWiringDiagram.jpg

[Newt327]

So, are you saying to use the Halegen lights as a high beam only? So if you have the factory switch on low you only the factory light working but when you switch to high beam on the factory switch the halegen lights then come on?

[clemsonteg]

Originally posted by Newt327
So, are you saying to use the Halegen lights as a high beam only? So if you have the factory switch on low you only the factory light working but when you switch to high beam on the factory switch the halegen lights then come on?

Which one of us are you speaking to? If it was me, then no, you still use it per usually, you just need 2 relays, one for high beam, one for low beam, so you don't get the voltage drop going through all of the mess of the switch supplying power.

[dr qwerty]

Depends what you really want and want to spend...
DDMTUNNING HID KIT which is h6M 35 watt kit is about 50.00....If you have to end up buying a relay another 15-20 dollars made 8-15 to make...
your 18 fab up works but curious why it drains your batt? dont run it unless you are giving her hell to keep up the charge...Also you can add in hybusa batt which is same size twice the power out put...
HID take about 3 times the power to start but half the power to run...the ballist acts as a mid point for this....If this makes sense?

If you love night riding and want your best bang for your buck go with HID's ddmtunning has the best price and great customer service but chinese quality lights which means you get 95% quality and 5% BS the other times....

[vaget22]

First read this http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=426508

Then read this. http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=437986

Then read this. http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444083&highlight=HIDs

If these links don't work just go into the How To's section and do a search on Different angle on Brighter Lights. While you are in there do a search on HID Headlight Conversion by Ballerchaos. Good material.

I did the relay mod with the stock lights as you will read and it helped but I later went back and installed the HIDs and there is no comparison. The HIDs are easily 2 to 3 times brighter than just the relay mod and a lot less work.

[vaget22]

I seem to remember that you only have about 145watts of power available fron the electrical system total. Your normal headlights eat up 70 watts of that. And the tail light is another 5watts. That leaves 70 watts. Then you need a certain amout of power for the ignition system. Not sure exactly on the amount of draw there but you get the point. Then you will also need a fair amount of power to recharge the battery. It all adds up to not nearly enough power for your 55watt lights and keep the battery charged. One way to test it is get a volt meter and connect it across the battery and measure the voltage with it running and the lights off, rev the motor up a bit and check the voltage. Then turn on the lights and rev the motor to about 5K rpms and check the voltage across the battery. If it reads much under +-13.5 volts, you are overloading the system. My bet is that the meter will read under 12 volts with all the lights on. You can also try it with one light, you might be able to get away with that but you'll never be able to touch the level of light the HIDs give. OK, I think I beat this to death enough. Just trying to share some info and save you some work.

[Newt327]

The HIDs seem cheap and easy enough to install, i think i'll scrap the lights i have and go that route.

vaget22 - Just to clarify, to do the HIDs the right way, (with the relays) i should follow your relay instalation tutorial then continue on with the HID tutorial and connect the relays that would have gone to the factory lights to the Ballists instead. Still need 2 relays, one for each Ballist. No high/lo function, just on and off. The factory on/off swicth triggers the relays. Is this all correct?

[vaget22]

Originally posted by Newt327
The HIDs seem cheap and easy enough to install, i think i'll scrap the lights i have and go that route.

vaget22 - Just to clarify, to do the HIDs the right way, (with the relays) i should follow your relay instalation tutorial then continue on with the HID tutorial and connect the relays that would have gone to the factory lights to the Ballists instead. Still need 2 relays, one for each Ballist. No high/lo function, just on and off. The factory on/off swicth triggers the relays. Is this all correct?

If you go with the HIDs you will only need one relay. Here is the part that some people have an issue with the HIDs. The HID bulbs only have one beam. The stock bulbs have two seperate filiments in them. If you take a stock bulb and look close at the inside you will see both of them. They are a small coiled wire that goes across two posts. When the lights are on, the voltage causes them to get very hot and glow to produce the light. The two seperate filiments are mounted at different positions so the light produced hits the reflector at different angles, producing a low angle and a high angle of the light. When the bulbs go bad is when these filiments break. The HIDs have no filiment. Nothing to break and last much longer. The bulb is filled with Xenon gas that glows very bright when enough voltage it put through this gas. So, it will either be on or off. No high or low beam, just on or off. This is where you need to decide if you are ok with not having a high low beam setup. I personally wanted as much light as I could get or they would be just turned off. If you go this way all you need to do is decide if you want the lights to come on with the handlebar switch on the high or low position. There are two wires that come out of the handlebar switch, one is white and the other is blue. White is the low beam and Blue is the high beam. Which ever one you decide on is the one you use to activate the relay. This wire you run to the post on the relay with the number 86 on it. Run power from the battery with a fuse in line to the post on the relay numbered 30. Then you run a wire from the post numbered 87 on the relay to both of the red power wires on the ballasts. Then run a ground wire from the post numbered 85 to somewhere on the frame to ground the relay. Then there are black wires coming out of each ballast that also need to be grounded to the frame somewhere. At that point the bulbs are just pluged into the ballasts and you are wired. Make sure you use some 12ga wire from the battery to the relay and from the relay to the ballasts. Just a good idea because there is a good amount of current going through them when it first starts up but drops off after a few seconds. It probably sounds kind of complicated but it's not really that bad. Once you get the HIDs and the other stuff it will make more sense looking at it in person. If you go through with it let me know and I can give you some other good tips of the process when you are about to dig in. Feel free to ask as many questions as you like and I'll gladly help you through this. I spend most of my time on here lurking and mostly jump in when there are electrical issues. Thats my thing, electronics. Here is a link to a picture that shows a relay and the wiring. http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz304/Varget22/th_wwwoffroaders.jpg

[vaget22]

Sorry, that picture sucks. I'll try to find a bigger picture for you.

[vaget22]

Maybe this one will be better. http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2zIjx9VDUzWu9jD9EnrYqTV97R_Y88 6AvTxALS5PciZPN08U

[vaget22]

Nope, even worse.

[vaget22]

Another try. http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2zIjx9VDUzWu9jD9EnrYqTV97R_Y88 6AvTxALS5PciZPN08U

[vaget22]

One more. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3356/3659057696_69a0c6ed5f_o.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.mys10.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D18190&usg=__1O5piLRb0YT9warPSw9BVWqiUHY=&h=454&w=747&sz=18&hl=en&start=154&zoom=1&tbnid=a2B9cEYNruP__M:&tbnh=126&tbnw=207&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHeadlight%2Brelay%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den% 26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7GGLR_en%26biw%3D1419%26bih%3D 655%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C4127&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=1105&vpy=320&dur=1365&hovh=175&hovw=288&tx=163&ty=94&ei=Jp11TMaKJIGC8gaw7oysBg&oei=_5x1TODwEsL88Ab_8fmFBg&esq=11&page=9&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:154&biw=1419&bih=655

[Newt327]

lol, thanks for the help.

It actually doesnt look hard at all. I'm not new to electronics, although I've not worked with relays before. The concept makes sense and looks pretty straight forward.

Thanks.

[vaget22]

Cool. Yea, relays are fairly straight forward. Let me know if you have any questions or need any extra tips on the mod.

[rmcfadden68]

Originally posted by clemsonteg
You can also buy a couple relays, use the headlight power to trigger the relay, and run power from the battery to the relay and from the relay to the headlight. That way you aren't losing power buy going through the tiny headlight switch. I actually plan to do this, as well as do the super white bulbs, or I might just do the DDM tuning HIDs, which will basically require the same wiring scenario.

Here is a photo to explain

http://www.rowand.net/shop/tech/images/HeadlightRelayWiringDiagram.jpg
great tip and even better diagram. ive been running relays with 55w small bullet looking chrome style wal-mart lights($10) ive had no problem with them in the last 5 yrs. even with stock hi-beams on at the same time. mounted on bars so i can direct the beam where i need them the most

[Newt327]

My cousin did the same thing with his KFX, mounted them on the bars. Thats where i got the idea to add the Halogens to mine. Got my HID kit in the mail and going to install it today.

[Newt327]

rmcfadden68 - your from Stubenville I see, do you ride up at Wellsville? We're going up there in a few weeks cant wait. Hope these HIDs do well at night up there.

[Newt327]

Originally posted by vaget22
Cool. Yea, relays are fairly straight forward. Let me know if you have any questions or need any extra tips on the mod.

One question, and maybe i missed this somewhere. What size fuse should i use on the 12V from the battery to the relay? i got a 30amp universal relay kit that came with a fuse holder and 30 amp fuse. Will this work?

[05strokinfx4]

h6m hids

ill get a pic up

[05strokinfx4]

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r114/jeepc4x4/fc4ec39a.jpg
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r114/jeepc4x4/08c59867.jpg
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r114/jeepc4x4/59bfdf2f.jpg

[vaget22]

Originally posted by Newt327
One question, and maybe i missed this somewhere. What size fuse should i use on the 12V from the battery to the relay? i got a 30amp universal relay kit that came with a fuse holder and 30 amp fuse. Will this work?

I guess I would say that 30amp is a bit on the large side. I used a 15amp on mine. Of course any fuse is better than no fuse. Goes without saying, huh. The only real drawback to using a 30amp fuse is that it will allow a lot of current to be drawn through the wires before it blows the fuse. Sometimes the amp rating will bemarked on the relay. If the rating is much lower than 30amps you may want to put a smaller fuse in there so a possible short won't damage the relay.

[vaget22]

Question, did you catch the part in my earlier write up about how to run the wires to keep the rubber boots that seal the back of the lights?

[Newt327]

Ok, got the ballasts and the lights installed without problems. Got the boots back on too. Connected all the wires and turned on the key, turned on the headlight switch on lowbeam and the tail light came on as it should. Switched on the high beam switch which should turn on the HID lights and blew the main the fuse on my quad. (The 15A fuse by the battery)

So i checked my wiring and i think at first i may have had terminals 85 and 86 reversed so i fixed that, tried again and blew the main fuse again.

Here is how my wiring is right now.

Relay Terminal 30 - 12V Battery
Relay Terminal 85 - Grounded to the frame.
Relay Terminal 86 - Blue wire from Healight switch - High Beam
Relay Terminal 87 - positve lead to Balaists
Negative lead from ballasts - Grounded to Frame

I did some testing:

Test 1
Connected the 12V from the battery to the positive lead to the ballasts and the HIDs come on as they should.

Test 2
I connected the blue wire from the headlight switch directly to the positive lead to the ballists bypassing the relay. Turned on the key turn on the lights with high beams on and the HIDs came on.

Test 3
Reconnected the relay but left terminal 87 disconnected, turned on the key, turned on lights with high beams and the main fuse blew out again.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[clemsonteg]

Originally posted by Newt327
Ok, got the ballasts and the lights installed without problems. Got the boots back on too. Connected all the wires and turned on the key, turned on the headlight switch on lowbeam and the tail light came on as it should. Switched on the high beam switch which should turn on the HID lights and blew the main the fuse on my quad. (The 15A fuse by the battery)

So i checked my wiring and i think at first i may have had terminals 85 and 86 reversed so i fixed that, tried again and blew the main fuse again.

Here is how my wiring is right now.

Relay Terminal 30 - 12V Battery
Relay Terminal 85 - Grounded to the frame.
Relay Terminal 86 - Blue wire from Healight switch - High Beam
Relay Terminal 87 - positve lead to Balaists
Negative lead from ballasts - Grounded to Frame

I did some testing:

Test 1
Connected the 12V from the battery to the positive lead to the ballasts and the HIDs come on as they should.

Test 2
I connected the blue wire from the headlight switch directly to the positive lead to the ballists bypassing the relay. Turned on the key turn on the lights with high beams on and the HIDs came on.

Test 3
Reconnected the relay but left terminal 87 disconnected, turned on the key, turned on lights with high beams and the main fuse blew out again.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Sounds like you have a ground connected somewhere that shouldn't be.

Editing because I though of something else, could be a bad relay, try this, connect the ground and power to the relay, and then take the power again to the trigger (86 I think) and see if you can feel the relay clicking. It might be shorting out on the inside causing you to blow a fuse. You can also try going to the auto parts store and buying another relay (about $5) if you don't want to do the wires.

[vaget22]

Originally posted by Newt327
Ok, got the ballasts and the lights installed without problems. Got the boots back on too. Connected all the wires and turned on the key, turned on the headlight switch on lowbeam and the tail light came on as it should. Switched on the high beam switch which should turn on the HID lights and blew the main the fuse on my quad. (The 15A fuse by the battery)

So i checked my wiring and i think at first i may have had terminals 85 and 86 reversed so i fixed that, tried again and blew the main fuse again.

Here is how my wiring is right now.

Relay Terminal 30 - 12V Battery
Relay Terminal 85 - Grounded to the frame.
Relay Terminal 86 - Blue wire from Healight switch - High Beam
Relay Terminal 87 - positve lead to Balaists
Negative lead from ballasts - Grounded to Frame

I did some testing:

Test 1
Connected the 12V from the battery to the positive lead to the ballasts and the HIDs come on as they should.

Test 2
I connected the blue wire from the headlight switch directly to the positive lead to the ballists bypassing the relay. Turned on the key turn on the lights with high beams on and the HIDs came on.

Test 3
Reconnected the relay but left terminal 87 disconnected, turned on the key, turned on lights with high beams and the main fuse blew out again.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

According to what you tested, the relay is defective. Go to your local auto parts store and get you another relay. They will be with the driving lights and stuff. Should be about $7 or $8. Let us know how it works.

[Newt327]

Does the Amperage of the relay itself matter? All the ones i've found are listed as 30 amp relays.

[vaget22]

30amps is the maximum amount of amperage the relay is designed to operate with and not damage it. Your HIDs should be drawing way less than that to start. I would imagine that 30amps is probably standard for these type relays. Gives you a good amount of room to work with. You should be fine with the type you are finding. Sorry you drew the short straw on the defective relay. Rare but it does happen.

[clemsonteg]

Yeah a 30 amp relay will be fine, do you have a fuse in the line from the battery to the relay? If not I would probably put one in there so if you have a problem down the road it will pop that fuse and not the main fuse on the bike. You shouldn't be drawing more than 5 amps with the HID's running (depends on whether you have 35w or 55w) but I would go with a 7.5 amp or 10 amp fuse so you have a little wiggle room as well.

[Newt327]

Swapped out the relay and everything works fine now. Guess the relay was the problem.

[vaget22]

Glad you got it worked out. Now what you need to do is wait till it gets dark tonight and take it out and test them. Then report back here and let everyone know.

[Newt327]

Yeah, I plan to take another picture in the same position as the others i posted earlier with the halogen lights to compare.

[Newt327]

I added a picture of the HID lights in action on page 1 in the original post. There really is no comparison.

[vaget22]

Sweeeet.

[Newt327]

Next question, is there a way using two relays you could wire it so that low beam works one light and high beam works both?

[vaget22]

Yes. You would be looking at a bunch of splicing though. Have one relay activated by the white wire and powering one ballast. Then have the blue wire connected to the second relay that is powering both ballasts. It is possible. I can describe more if you are serious about this.

[vaget22]

No wait thats not quite right. You would have to wire it a bit different than that. It's late and my brain is tired. You would need to splice the blue wire to both relays to activate both relays and run the white to just one relay. Then you would need to have each relay on just one battast. I think that makes sence. Right now you have the relay connected to both ballasts. You would need to seperate each light to a sepperate relay. High beam would be connected to both relays and the low beam would be connected to just one relay. Yea, thats right.

[Newt327]

Here is a comparison of a single HID bulb and Dual HID bulbs. Also i adjusted the lights since the last pictures and aimed them higher so they are not focused right in front of the quad. you can see much further down into my yard now. I added these pics to the first post for comparision to the factory lights.

I did not rewire these, just unpluged one for the pictures. I think i'm going to leave mine as is with both lights on at all times. My buddy has a Z400 witht he lights in seperate housings, it may make more sense to wire those seperatly if you can aim each housing indepenantly and have one aimed high and one aimed low.

Single HID

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx21/Newt327/400EX/HID-Single.jpg

Dual HID

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx21/Newt327/400EX/HID4.jpg

[vaget22]

The reason I did mine with just one relay is just to keep it simple. Less places for something to go wrong. Waterproofed everything and cable ties everywhere. Enjoy.

[Newt327]

What did you do to waterproof everything?

[vaget22]

Wally World has some stuff that is like liquid electrical tape. You just brush it on and when it dries it actually works better than black tape. If you look at the bottom of your relay you will see there is a base that is slid into the body of the box. There is a seam around the base with the pins that can let water get into the inside of the relay. I sealed that up and made sure there were no parts of the metal pins exposed. Also just made sure no water can get to any of the other connections I made. The HID plugs I got had little rubber seals in them so I left them alone. Generally just made sure water was not going to cause anuthing I did to corode in the future.

[CJM]

Waterproof crimp on connectors, might be a bit more upfront but they work really well. my fogs on my truck never had issues for years.

[skid572]

stuff called plasity dip works real good to can be found in lowes or homedepot paint section

[ballerchaos]

I would do a hid conversion and run a wiring harness that's what I got and I only night ride, Ide run 6000k bulbs and you need h6m bulbs the how to is in my signature

[Newt327]

Still having a fuse problem. I dont know that it's related to the lights at all though. I was out riding yesterday during the day and not using the lights at all and blew out the 15 amp fuse on the main harness again. I put in a spare and removed the fuse from the lights just in case and it was fine the rest of the day. I got home and replaced the fuse on the wiring for the HIDs but lowered it to a 7.5 amp fuse. Everything works and nothing is blowing fuse right now sitting in the garage. I rode around the yard tried to jar it around a bit to see if the fuse would blow again but nothing.

I suspect something is shorting in the main harness somewhere may be a completly unrelated problem. The only fuse that ever blows is the main fuse, the fuse on the 12V+ from the battery to the lights has never blown out.

[vaget22]

Ok, we will get to the bottom of this. First I need to ask a few questions. First, how long have you owned this bike? Second, have you ever had a problem with it blowing fuses like this before? Third, which wire from the handlebar switch did you use to trigger the relay? White for the low beam or Blue for the high beam? And what did you do with the other wire from the handlebar switch? Does it blow the fuse right when you turn on the lights or when you are riding with the lights already on? Answer these first as best you can and it will tell me alot. Sorry for just a bunch of questions but I need some specific info to get an idea where to start.

[Newt327]

I found the problem and it was completly unrelated to the lights. One of the wires from my CDI box was rubbing against a bolt on the frame and wore through the insulation on the wire. It wasn't in constant contact and only shorted when the wire moved in the right way. I taped up the wire, put some plastic conduit around all the wires and taped it up some more.

I figured it was something like that sine it wasnt shorting all the time, only while riding. So i turned on the key and started moving parts of the wiring harness around until i heard the fuse blow.

Problem solved, thanks.

[vaget22]

Gotta love it when the fix is that easy.

[riotact]

If I were to get this kit on Ebay: Item number: 390233596525

and this wire harness: Item number: 180558209412

would I be able to keep my hi/low function,and on/off at the switches?Thanks for the help.

[CJM]

Might work, Im not sure honestly.

Personally after thinking about it for a long time I have concluded that you dont need a HI/LO function with the HD lights b/c they are so much brighter period.

I been cooking up an idea to take some hella 500FF lights (about 60 bucks) and some HD light kits and wire them as additional lights. Since they are only 35W it shouldnt put to much stress on the stator even with the other lights on. Basically you put the HD bulb setup into the hella lights and seal them up, works well, friend of mine has them on his 4Runner like that.