100% Stock bike, Clean carb, Will not idle or run, Rich and blowing smoke???

[TL_2ENV]

Another day another quad problem. Got this quad from a lady, first owner. 2004 Looks like it has less then 15 hours on it.. she says the same. Looks brand new.. It hasnt even been turned on in about a year..
Anyway battery was dead when i went to look at it, went to jump it and it fired but ran really choppy. So i bring it home, drain gas, clean petcock filter. Took everything in carb apart, cleaned every piece jets etc, added new gas and put it together..

Would not start on its own, so i hold the gas and it will fire but runs completely like hell, and blows a bunch of black smoke, i kept doing it thinking maybe carb cleaner or something needed to be worked out.

Finally I take out the plug and replace it with a newer one, (old one was super black) same thing. So i take the carb apart, needle out, jets etc go through them alllll again, put it together and same thing. So i am at a loss for this one?? I know 99% of the time its the carb but i cannot imagine?? I dont know what else it would be.. If it matters the fuel screw is turned 2 1/2 turns out, (not sure what its at now because ive been pissing with it) Ill have to take to a shop or something monday if i dont figure it out and get boned..

Any other ideas?!

[dalejiw25]

Sounds like the choke is on. Since you took the carb apart, Where is the needle clip set at and what size jets are in it. He said/She said it's all stock But you bought it used. You tore the carb down, You tell us, Is it stock ???? Hell for that matter mine is also stock. LOL

[TL_2ENV]

Choke isnt on, and it does work. The bike is all stock, i wouldnt say that if it wasnt. Ive probably done 30-40 of these carbs and never had this problem

Needle is in middle position, 148/38 jets (stock)

I dont know what else to do, except try to swap the carb from another bike to eliminate it

[TL_2ENV]

Spent about 3-4 hours on the bike today, trying different things..I was swapping parts back and fourth from my other 400ex. I think i may have the problem but have no idea how to go about fixing it? Possibly i need a new carb,

I swapped over almost anything imaginable from my other bike (before i started i swapped the entire carb as is from my running bike to problem bike and it ran great) So its 100% The carb

Anyway after hours, i noticed the needle on the bad running bike has alot of play in it compared to the other one, i swapped needles same thing, and i had the play again. I then noticed on the jet side of the needle there is a super tiny washer?? That keeps the needle center? The bad running bike is missing it, this has to be my problem doesnt it??? I have no idea where to get this, I dont even know how it would of came out? Ive cleaned carbs lots of times, and never lost it. It has to be "Stuck" To the carb, and somehow came lose on this problem bike. I snapped some pix, hopefully someone can comprehend this, you can even see in the "bad carb" the needle leans to a side and doesnt even sit center..

Sorry for the long post, but i appreciate your time in reading it..I have about 10 hours into this problem, i didnt even know there was a washer, or that it could come out. It was hard enough to get these pix...
I dont know what to do except buy a new carb

Pix>
Good carb (tiny golder washer at bottom??

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/xz24cavalierx/SAM_1140.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/xz24cavalierx/SAM_1136.jpg

Good carb, needle is not center and no gold washer??
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/xz24cavalierx/SAM_1139.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/xz24cavalierx/SAM_1137.jpg

[dalejiw25]

that is not a tiny washer that is your needle jet. it goes through to the inside of the carb, it's about a 1/4" long brass tube with a ring cast around the center. you can take it out of the carb that has it in it and swap it out. push it down through the inside of the carb. Use an ink pen or something to pop it out. hope that helps. You can see the small brass tube inside the carb. Without that it will surely run like Crap. That explains the richness. You can get a needle jet at any honda stealership if needed.

[dalejiw25]

Sorry I didn't notice you swapped the whole carb off a running bike. I assumed it was a bad carb or a parts carb.(Brain automatically navigates to Photos LOL) you're gonna have to get a new needle jet or maybe you can look around real good where you cleaned that carb and maybe find it. Good news, you don't need a new carb. And great work on the Photos. Definitely Helps.

[TL_2ENV]

thanks for reply although i dont know where to get one, i looked at cheap cycle parts, (which would be same as dealer) It looks as if you can buy almost every carb part except the slide/needle and that piece i need??
http://cdn.cheapcycleparts.com/images/HO/14HN1XE1/HN14E1700E.png

[TL_2ENV]

found the needle n stuff down on bottom left, it looks like i need #2, it comes as a kit "needle set" It looks as if the piece i need is on top of the main jet washer in that pic??Towards middle/bottom. Either way its $30+ shipping (about the same price as a carb on ebay) Do any of you know if that piece comes in a carb rebuild kit or something?

[honda400ex2003]

that looks to be the piece you need. I would bet that it fell out when you took out the rest. actually check the longer brass piece and see if it is in the top of it first. not sure on the rebuild kit but if you can wait a bit, i may have one of those pieces from my 450 needle swap. It came with that piece. If you want to while you have the schematics, look at the part numbers for #2 on the 400 carb and #2 on a 04-05 450 carb and see if they are the same. maybe not but it may be worth a shot. ill just send it to you if i have one around that will work. steve

[TL_2ENV]

Well you ordered a new needle because it was different then 400ex? The tiny brass piece may be the same, but i do not know the part number includes the "needle set" only. There is no specific part number for that piece, but im willing to bet if the 450 needle works in your 400ex the brass piece has to be the same?? That would be great if i could float you some cash to mail me one.


Has this happen to anyone else? I always take out the needles, clean with carb cleaner in there and blow it out with my air compressor, and never lost one yet. I assumed they are somewhat pressed in there but maybe i just blew too hard in the passage this time, who knows but ill watch it closer in the future..

[TL_2ENV]

ive gotten extremely lucky this week with finding small parts, lol i managed to find the piece in my messy *** garage, must of came out with air compressor, anyway bike runs 95% better, still doesnt want to idle, for very long without gas, 10sec tops (i swear those 40 pilot jets solve everything i wish they came stock) I do not have one right now to put in it, it probably needs to be ran to clean it out entirely, the plug may be gunked up from trying it running rich so many times too .

What happen to make me look at the needle in the first place, one of the needles looks noticeable duller then the other ( I have the duller one in the newer bike now from swapping parts) So im hoping i dont need a new needle, but i suppose its possible

Either way im good to go as of right now thanks again for your help guys

[Black450ER]

You might just want to outright replace the whole jet kit with an aftermarket one. I am assuming you have played with the idle adjustment? I had to mess with it a bit to get it to stay on at idle, runs pretty good now till I decide to tweak it again LOL!

[dalejiw25]

For further reference, The Needle jet does come in the carb rebuild kit along with a new needle for around $20. If you order the '99 -'04 kits you also get the luxury of a screwdriver slotted A/F screw and an adjustable needle included. For those of you with '05 and newer non adjustable crap, The '09 -'04 kits will work on the newer carbs. So there you have full adjust ability for Little cash. Alrighty then, nuff Yappin, I'm goin ridin. C-Yas !!!!

[honda400ex2003]

i ordered an oem needle for my 450 carb to replace the dynojet one that was in it. I was using keihin jets so i needed to use a keihin needle too. dont get a jet kit, if anything look at jets r us.com and see what you need there or at least get a kit from them. any other kit will be dj stuff. also stock settings for the f/a screw are 2.25 turns out from lightly seated, you could probably go to 2.75 and it would help out the starting issues you are having. get some fresh new gas in it and a new plug and i would think it should be ok. steve

[TL_2ENV]

gas is brand new, not sure how plug is, havent pulled it. It seems like its just what 400ex do, they are cold blooded and dont just "pop" Like a raptor does.. They should of just came stock with the damn 40 pilot jet. It runs good enough though for now

[honda400ex2003]

good to hear that you got it figured out. steve