Counter balancer rebuild

[bigmatt61]

I'm going through a bottom end I have and just pulled the counterbalancer. The bearing is awfully sloppy and probably (definitely) needs to be replaced.
Since you can't replace just the bearing, I need suggestions on getting someone to rebuild it.

Thanks, Matt

[Dave83]

Ive sent a couple to ESR and had them do it.

[250Renvy]

Depending on what it costs to rebuild, I have a brand new counterbalancer I'd sell for $150.

I know duncan does them as well they list rebuild for $150.

[addictedtomud]

GT Thunder = approx $50 + cost of bearing.

[destey]

The crank shop (http://www.thecrankshopvt.com/) did mine for $35 and I supplied the bearing.

[Honda 250r 001]

Ill rebuild yours for 35 if you supply bearing. It will be like a new one

[Pumashine]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
Ill rebuild yours for 35 if you supply bearing. It will be like a new one

Thats why these sites are so great. Members wil step up and help the average joe with their rebuild at a fraction of the cost.

[deathman53]

you know what bearing is needed? I brought mine to napa, they couldn't get the bearing nor could the machine/motor shop. Pressing it off/on isn't a problem, my friend has a press. I have 4+ that need a new bearing.

[heggie400ex]

Check ebay thats were I got mine and I think it was only like 35 dollars.

Here is a reply I made to a similar post, Note; this is what Honda recommends on how to rebuild a counter balancer to Honda specs’ created back in the late 80's via a Honda mechanics bulleting sheet. The issue in rebuilding a counter balancer is in pressing OFF the gear of the counter balancer without putting stress on the gear and the alignment of the gear teeth to the counter weights within ½ degree (+/- 15 minutes) per Honda specs when pressing back ON…not easily or accurately done by just aligning by eye or to scribed lines. That is why a special fixture is used…

Now a few will disagree with this statement, that is “OK”, however; a right way and a wrong way always exists, don’t take my word for it or anyone else’s. Look at your counter balancer, and ask yourself how you would maintain proper alignment per Honda specs by visually aligning marks or eyeballing it back together while pressing together?

Do your homework, check with your local Honda dealer or any of the top shops mentioned below in this post.

"Beware having counter balancers rebuilt..."

"Don't just go to any machine shop no matter how good the machinist may be. The counter balancer weights when assembled with the new bearing needs to be precisely timed to the counter balancer gear & gear weight, this is almost impossible to accomplish without special fixturing to align all pieces properly"

+90% of re-built counter balancers I have seen over the years have been rebuilt incorrectly, and would cause an out of balance harmonic issue.

Use only Honda dealers or specialty re-build shops like CT Racing (562) 945-2453 , ESR (805) 489-1999 or BDT Motorsports (909) 802-6516

[atvmxr]

there was a guy over on the .org site a few years ago that rebuilds them....

[86 Quad R]

yea that bearing isnt very common. i too had issues in locating one the first time around. i ended up going through an industrial supply retailer in the city and even then it had to be ordered. i think it was about 27.00 plus the trip for the bearing. anybody locate a better/cheaper place, please post. :cool:

btw: anyone that charges more than 35.00 is a rip as it doesnt take more than a few minutes to rebuild. ;)

[way2fast4u_250R]

i call my honda service in ct, texas- told me $135 to rebuilt counter balancer- they say all counter balancers are put in a special fixture when disasembly and assembly-only good way service manager said. i call duncan said they use fixture and cost $150- to much $'s

sent mi counter balancer to bdt motorsprts- they have fixture & charge me $75 with koyo japanese bearing like honda-bdt motorsports & duncan help me a lot-all good people-
paul

[Pumashine]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
yea that bearing isnt very common. i too had issues in locating one the first time around. i ended up going through an industrial supply retailer in the city and even then it had to be ordered. i think it was about 27.00 plus the trip for the bearing. anybody locate a better/cheaper place, please post. :cool:


I just called Kaman Bearing. Current price is $23.93 plus the ride. Stock is in Georgia. If you want to try a local bearing shop the part number is TM-16007 made by NTN

Looks like 62mm OD, 39mm ID, and 8mm thick.

[86 Quad R]

thanks for the info puma. :)

[way2fast4u_250R]

is ntn like koyo japan bering? i believe this as i check a lot-

"The issue in rebuilding a counter balancer is in pressing OFF the gear of the counter balancer without putting stress on the gear and the alignment of the gear teeth to the counter weights within ½ degree (+/- 15 minutes) per Honda specs when pressing back ON…not easily or accurately done by just aligning by eye or to scribed lines. That is why a special fixture is used"

makes lot snse to me as i am new to motors-
paul

[bigmatt61]

Acecarlos,
Where did you get the specs on the counter balancer? (1/2 degree +/- 15 min)
I'm interested in seeing the rebuild specs from a "certified honda technician's manual" or wherever you found that info.
My clymer says they can't be rebuilt, but I know they can because it's being done.
I want to do it right, so I just need the specs to get a fixture made up at my work.

Matt

Back in late 85 or early 86, I was at Pasadena Honda (in CA), one of the service mechanics was an avid ATC250R local racer I used to ride with. While working with him on my 250R counter balancer rebuild in 86, he showed me a “Honda mechanics bulleting”, not in the manual, a bulletin on Honda letter head instructing Honda service if the counter balancer was to be rebuilt, it needed to be rebuilt following the procedures and fixture outlined.

The “Honda bulleting” stated the tolerance at ½ degree +/- 15 min, the fixture consists of a special tool to support & remove the gear with undo stress being placed on it during disassembly, along with an elaborate fixture to re-assemble back together very precisely …I clearly remember the specs as being very tight and very well detailed by Honda, with the underlined statement that counter balancers should NOT be rebuilt without the use of the special fixture.

Later on Honda’s position became not to sell bearings or to rebuild the counter balancers, this was as a direct result of failures occurring by users rebuilding there own counter balancers...as it was explained to me.

We used the special fixture in 86-89 as detailed in the “Honda mechanics bulleting” to rebuild both of our counter balancers a few times. I later saw a very similar fixture at Selvy’s Performance in 86 or 87 and again recently (3-4 months ago) at BDT Motorsports here in Rancho Cucamonga, CA. The owner of BDT Motorsports being an old Honda Racing Team engine builder from the ATC250R-TRX250R racing scene in SoCal, clearly saw the Honda bulletin back in the late 80's.

Most would have you believe you don’t need to follow or fixture per Honda’s bulleting, however; that is far from true and not the proper way to rebuild your counter balancer.

Carlos.

[Honda 250r 001]

ill do it for free then. haha Ill find you a bearing, you pay shipping, ill install, and send it back.

Have a professional shop rebuild it with the proper fixtures & procedures, for $75 they provide the high end Koyo (Japanese) bearing, same as OEM Honda and assemble properly...

However; free is good...:)

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by acecarlos
Have a professional shop rebuild it with the proper fixtures & procedures, for $75 they provide the high end Koyo (Japanese) bearing, same as OEM Honda and assemble properly...

However; free is good...:)

I rebuilt mine myselfy with a hydraulic press and i have never had any issues with extra vibes, broken motor mounts, or anything. I dont see how it could be that hard to get it in the same spot as it was before. That counterbalencer is pretty crude looking to me and prolly isint perfectly balanced from the factory.

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
I rebuilt mine myselfy with a hydraulic press and i have never had any issues with extra vibes, broken motor mounts, or anything. I dont see how it could be that hard to get it in the same spot as it was before. That counterbalencer is pretty crude looking to me and prolly isint perfectly balanced from the factory.

^^ Agreed ^^ Some people try to complicate the issue. You don't need a engineering degree to rebuild the counterbalancer. :eek:

I am sure more than one way exist to rebuild a counter balancer. I always like doing or having someone perform “the mechanically correct way” in builds or assemblies…

No “engineering degree” needed, only the proper fixture and Honda procedure…:cool:

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by acecarlos
I am sure more than one way exist to rebuild a counter balancer. I always like doing or having someone perform “the mechanically correct way” in builds or assemblies…

No “engineering degree” needed, only the proper fixture and Honda procedure…:cool:

I just dont believe its worth the $125 or $75 to get it perfectly correct when it probably virtually wouldnt create any more vibes either way.

For $75, including new Koyo (Honda OEM) $35 bearing, assembled in a fixture per Honda specs is out of line?

I will continue paying my $75 to have it done correctly.

[Pumashine]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
I just dont believe its worth the $125 or $75 to get it perfectly correct when it virtually wouldnt create any more vibes either way.

So what you are saying is just put in a couple timing marks, press it apart and then back together with a new bearing? The timing marks are close enough. Then not worry about the + or - 1/4 degree angle it is pressed in at becuase its not going to make a difference anyway?.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by Pumashine
So what you are saying is just put in a couple timing marks, press it apart and then back together with a new bearing? The timing marks are close enough. Then not worry about the + or - 1/4 degree angle it is pressed in at becuase its not going to make a difference anyway?.

Dont know what your talking about, its a simple as grinding a mark, pressing apart, pressing back together and getting the marks to line up exactly as they were before. Why is that so complicated for some people to understand?

If you are satisfied with eyeballing self made scribes or marks, then good for you...for the rest of us that want the "best" or would like to follow Honda specifications, we can send it to a source with the proper tooling-fixture, it is not complicated.

Here you go, note the bearing itself is also available for those that like to line up scribes or marks:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280551704344&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280547709124&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by acecarlos
If you are satisfied with eyeballing self made scribes or marks, then good for you...for the rest of us that want the "best" or would like to follow Honda specifications, we can send it to a source with the proper tooling-fixture, it is not complicated.

Here you go, note the bearing itself is also available for those that like to line up scribes or marks:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280551704344&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280547709124&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

I dont mean to start an arguement or fuel the fire, but the counterbalencers are balanced and within honda oem specs from the factory new, so when i line my marks back up, wouldnt that be just honda specs?

It's "OK"...like I said, more than one way to "skin a cat"...I was just trying to share some learned knowledge, a good source for 250R rebuilt counter balancers, and how Honda suggest you rebuild them, nothing more, no arguments.

[Honda 250r 001]

i wasnt arguing, just having a discussion so people can read though this thread and decide what they would like to do.

[Pumashine]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
Dont know what your talking about, its a simple as grinding a mark, pressing apart, pressing back together and getting the marks to line up exactly as they were before. Why is that so complicated for some people to understand?

Not compicared at all. Sorry you misunterstood what I was talking about. I though Acecarlos was saying the gear needed a fixture to press the pieces together square. Different topic than alinging the scribe marks. Like you said the marks will be close enough to work correctly. Not trying to argue, I agree it is a very simple process.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by Pumashine
Not compicared at all. Sorry you misunterstood what I was talking about. I though Acecarlos was saying the gear needed a fixture to press the pieces together square. Different topic than alinging the scribe marks. Like you said the marks will be close enough to work correctly. Not trying to argue, I agree it is a very simple process.

Oh! yea i misunderstood. I had a little trouble getting the two to start sliding on square. But its possible. You could do it either way. I would sure feel dumb if i built a 2000 puma motor and the counterbalencer came apart because of a error on my part. haha

[twopump78]

i just talked to esr today and they charge 65 bucks to put a new bearing on. and that includes the new bearing.

[J250r]

Originally posted by Pumashine
I just called Kaman Bearing. Current price is $23.93 plus the ride. Stock is in Georgia. If you want to try a local bearing shop the part number is TM-16007 made by NTN

Looks like 62mm OD, 39mm ID, and 8mm thick.

I'm sorry to bump this old thread, but can anyone confirm these measurements? I am having a hard time finding this bearing and I might have to special order it, unless someone has a better idea where to find it? I already tried Kaman bearing and about 5 other places.

[Pumashine]

Originally posted by J250r
I'm sorry to bump this old thread, but can anyone confirm these measurements? I am having a hard time finding this bearing and I might have to special order it, unless someone has a better idea where to find it? I already tried Kaman bearing and about 5 other places.

Dont use the measurements. The ID was a guess cause you cannot measure it when its together. The part# is good number though. Its the number on the side of the bearing. Look for yourself. Kaman used the part number and manufacture to get me the location of the stock.

Try:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280547709124&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280551704344&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

[honda350r]

You send your CB to me and I will send it back with a new Koyo bearing installed for 37.00 and that includes shipping back to you !

Beat that !

You get what you pay for in life...can't beat $37...:o

[honda350r]

Originally posted by acecarlos
You get what you pay for in life...can't beat $37...:o

For you I will do it for 35.00 shipped .

Replacing a CB bearing is super easy if you have the right tools!

It takes me less than 5 minutes to do and that includes taping up the shipping box .

Nothing cheap about it ! It is no problem for me and been doing them for 10 years .
I like helping others out and thought I would share .

Have a nice day

[honda350r]

By the way a new Koyo 16007 bearing is 15.00 :devil:

Like I said; you get what you pay for, even if it was free I would not send it to you unless you followed Honda rebuild process, using the prescribed Honda fixture, and obviously you haven't a clue...

Yes, I know; Honda don't know S**T, and you do...it's pure amazement to read the lack of knowledge displayed on forums...

[honda350r]

Wow dude ??? Are for real ? You think you are the only one who know his stuff..

Show me your theory in writing ,come on where is the proof? You really think that, you are the only one who is right ?

I have no idea why you have attacked me?

Anyone who spends big money on a CB rebuild is just not doing their homework !

If you spend more than 20.00 on a bearing you are shopping the wrong bearing supplier !

You could never spew enough of you B S to make me think for a minute I am doing something wrong!

Your better than everyone else's attitude in this thread is very evident through out this thread..

Get over yourself already .

It is not my or anyone else's fault you pay way to much for easy CB rebuilds ..

Like I said have a nice day !

[Pumashine]

Sounds like you have done many CB rebuilds. Are the KOYO bearings equivalent to the stock bearing? I realise pressing bearings is not a big deal if done correctly. Your price is real good and helps out all the R bretheren to keep their bikes running economically. Thanks in advance!

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by honda350r
Wow dude ??? Are for real ? You think you are the only one who know his stuff..

You could never spew enough of you B S to make me think for a minute I am doing something wrong!

Your better than everyone else's attitude in this thread is very evident through out this thread..

Get over yourself already .



^^ Agreed ^^ Oh, don't forget BDT! :blah:

Go back and read the proper way to rebuild your counter balancer, it has been detailed & the reasons why explained.

Agreed rebuilding a counter balancer can be done in many different ways, however; only one is the correct method and it happens to be the only method detailed in a Mechanics Bulleting by Honda back in the late 80’s.

If that is a “Your better than everyone else's attitude”, than I guess it is.

Like I said before: “Yes, I know; Honda don't know S**T, and you do...it's pure amazement to read the lack of knowledge displayed on forums”...

[honda350r]

You have zero proof that a document actually exist ZERO .

You spout off, yet show nothing !

You also have zero proof that a HONDA fixture exist that honda sold to shops!

How do you know I don't have a fixture ? You act if as you know how I rebuild a CBs .

Now go get ripped off by over paying for a simple service !

I know you don't have a fixture as your comments of taking 5 minutes reflect the fact that you have no idea about how to properly rebuild a counter balancer or how the fixture works…you don’t even know how to make or hold the tolerances Honda specifies for the rebuild of ½ degree +/-15M.

My proof is what I know and what I saw and the Honda shops that had the fixtures & used them back in late 80’s and again recently, take it or leave it…that is my proof along with everyone else that has seen the fixtures, used them & continue to use them.

Continue to rebuild CB’s your way, the wrong way, and I will continue to “over pay” as you say, to have it done properly. Its “OK”…you offer a cheap alternative for $35, everyone else should send their CB’s to you and be done with it…

One more thing; learn to write!

[honda350r]

Originally posted by acecarlos
I know you don't have a fixture as your comments of taking 5 minutes reflect the fact that you have no idea about how to properly rebuild a counter balancer or how the fixture works…you don’t even know how to make or hold the tolerances Honda specifies for the rebuild of ½ degree +/-15M.

My proof is what I know and what I saw and the Honda shops that had the fixtures & used them back in late 80’s and again recently, take it or leave it…that is my proof along with everyone else that has seen the fixtures, used them & continue to use them.

Continue to rebuild CB’s your way, the wrong way, and I will continue to “over pay” as you say, to have it done properly. Its “OK”…you offer a cheap alternative for $35, everyone else should send their CB’s to you and be done with it…

One more thing; learn to write!


I don't know what you are smoking , put the pipe down ..

You still have ZERO proof of any document from Honda .

You make a simple procedure out to be rocket science .

The truth is, you are the one pimping your high dollar rebuilds . You are just mad that someone else can do it way cheaper than you !

Get with the program already .

[honda350r]

Carlos, I have a question for you.

What happens to the 250r engine when you add a big bore or stroker crank?

Can you fill us all in on how many minutes +/- 15 we will need to adjust our very high tech CBs in out 250Rs when weight is added ?

Maybe you will have a fixture for that too.

Thanks

[Ruf Racing]

:ermm: :eek2:

Don’t be offended, I already acknowledged you offer a cheap alternative for $35 and everyone else should send their CB’s to you for rebuild.

I have nothing to gain or lose if you rebuilt your CB correctly or incorrectly, the discussion started with a simply question and my reply was based on my experience and what I saw, I am not mad about the fact that you are willing to provide a cheap $35 alternative. However; I will speak up and post what I clearly know and represent the best possible build for 250R’s…the only one mad seems to be you, who is not capable of understanding what I said.

I do not have the knowledge nor am I in a position to speak about why the Honda spec is as tight as it is, nor do I really know why Honda stopped performing rebuilds on CB’s in 86. I agree it does seem like a very tight tolerance, however; I have also heard the tolerance is a byproduct of the design and the true function of the disassembly & assembly fixture is to insure all the components in the CB are handled during disassembly & assembly without adding ANY stress to ANY of the components.

If you had seen or see the Honda CB fixture, you would clearly understand the function & purpose and reasoning behind it…you would never handle a CB rebuild without using the Honda fixture & procedure.

Now, we can continue to argue about this forever, it won’t be solved by us…The folks that know a lot more than I do, don’t really care to come on a forum whose participants offer a fact or explanation based on firsthand experience and are attacked.

With that said; everyone else should send their CB’s to honda350r for the cheap $35 rebuild…that’s my plug!

[honda350r]

I love the he said she said stuff ! You have no real world experiance yet you tel me I am doing it wrong?

I have never had anythig go wrong with a CB bearing replacement ever!

I do not care if I ever rebuild another CB as long as i live. That said I will do them for anyone who ask abd is willing to send me their CB .

As you can tell I make zero money and do as a favor to fellow 250r guys and gals.

I have no idea how many I have done for myself and others, I do know for a fact I have had zero complaints .

Carlos , I understand what you are saying but in the real world it just does not matter .

Have a nice day

Jim

Jim:

It does matter, if it did not, Honda would not have specked out such an elaborate fixture and stopped all CB rebuilds without the use of the fixture, issues existed with the CB rebuilds without the fixture.

I applaud you if you can make it work without the fixture, however; I do believe there is a lot more to this than we all know, like the force induced during the disassembly & assembly on the gear. I am told this will exceed 4 tons of press fit force…therefore; it is not just an alignment issue, it is a matter of removing & pressing the counter balance gear on & off the shaft and inducing stress that leads to eventual failure.

The Honda fixture (if I recall correctly) had a induction coil on the counter balancer gear side only that heated just the counter balancer gear around the base, expanding the gear off the press fit shaft without exerting any real force.

To assemble with a new bearing, the counter balancer gear was placed in the alignment fixture, the gear heated up by the induction coil, and the assembly was a drop fit into place…no real press pressure was used or at least a very minimal force was needed to assemble.

Without the Honda fixture, the gear requires 4 tons of force to remove and 4 tons of force to re assemble as I am told, apparently Honda felt the pressure was excessive.

Do what you like with this information, I can tell you I know of one shop and one Honda service department in SoCal that still have these CB Honda rebuild fixtures.

I can not explain it any better; enough said…

Carlos.

[honda350r]

I can tell you without a doubt it is not even close to a 4 ton press fit !!

You are only going to have a thousands press fit and I press them with a HAND OPERATED ARBOR PRESS.


Like I said zero come backs and my fixture does not have heating elements in it .

I just got though pressing one apart and it took maybe 5 seconds .

I doubt Honda ever made a tool other than the factory assembly line tool.

Anyway I do appreciate your insight on this deal and I think someone just hyped it up to sell a service at a higher price!

Later

Jim

So after all my explanations; you are still calling me a liar!...I don't get it Jim!

Check your counter balancer shaft or counter weight hole; it should have an interference fit of .003"; not .001"...

[honda350r]

Originally posted by acecarlos
You are so full of S**T...

After this last statement; "I doubt Honda ever made a tool other than the factory assembly line tool" & "You are only going to have a thousands press fit"...get real Jim! So after all my explanations; you are still calling me a liar!

I know you don't have a clue...sorry; I have to call it as I see it...I am done with your ignorance!

Let's see hmmm,

Real world experiance compared to "what my friend of my buddy told me 25 years ago" ...

Who is full of it ..

4 tons LMFAO

You can always prove me wrong and post the tool with a Honda Part # on it and a Honda service bulletin with all the info you have spouted off about in this thread .

Seem pretty easy to me !

Oh yeah I will stand by, a thousands press fit !

Prove me wrong ...PLEASE !

If your proof shows up I will apologize for doubting you .

Until then I am not budging on my real world experience to your hearsay ..

Jim

I feel sorry for you; that is why I edited my post; I should not be picking on the mentally challenged...:-)

Measure your own counter balancer shaft & gear, if it is new, you will see .003" interference and not .001"....this is again proof of your ignorance.

After your lame statement of .001” press fit; you just showed your true colors…I don’t believe you have ever rebuilt a counter balancer; not one!.

[honda350r]

Originally posted by acecarlos
I feel sorry for you; that is why I edited my post; I should not be picking on the mentally challenged...:-)

Measure your own counter balancer shaft & gear, if it is new, you will see .003" interference and not .001"....this is again proof of your ignorance.

After your lame statement of .001” press fit; you just showed your true colors…I don’t believe you have ever rebuilt a counter balancer; not one!.

So you are sand bagging your knowledge on CB rebuilding telling everyone here you pay big buck to have them done,when you really rebuild them yourself?

Weird ?

Made a call to someone that would know; here are some facts for you, you can’t dispute the measurements or the force math as many others on this forum can measure the shaft & bore of the CB and do the math:

Press fit of the counter balancer shaft to counter weight bore is .055MM or .00216”…on a 22MM shaft @ .00216” the force required to press fit two sliding surfaces is 5980lbs or almost 3 tons…

This is for a CB in as new condition or with shaft & bore in excellent condition; maybe now the Honda heated fixture starts to make some sense…:) :) :)

[slamdak8782]

:rolleyes: OMG ace carlos get over it dude is right. Im about to take mine to work and press it off with and arbor press just to settle this

[honda350r]

I am suspecting that Carlos is the same guy who runs the Ebay auctions for CB service and is pissed that others are doing it cheaper .

Here is a guy that does this stuff for a living and has done so for years.

Here is his service , I bet he has no problems with CBs being rebuilt.

http://www.davemooreracing.com/Counter_Balencer.html

Wow only 45.00 ... HMMM

This stuff is getting weirder by the minute .

[Pumashine]

Originally posted by honda350r
I am suspecting that Carlos is the same guy who runs the Ebay auctions for CB service and is pissed that others are doing it cheaper .

Here is a guy that does this stuff for a living and has done so for years.

Here is his service , I bet he has no problems with CBs being rebuilt.

http://www.davemooreracing.com/Counter_Balencer.html

Wow only 45.00 ... HMMM

This stuff is getting weirder by the minute .

I have had 6 of my CB's lightened and rebuilt by Dave. I was going to post the same reply but are glad you are doing it. I believe he has been doing CB's for over 15 years at the same rate. Not weird in my book. (Oh shoot, I see the point now)

Carlos seems to be pushing a shop he has had good business with. That is fine in these forums.I see it on other sites as well. Information will be found out no matter what. But he should not knock people with a more economical way of building R parts based on information not available to the public if it exists at all.

Sorry Carlos you may have good intentions but please don't give members a bad time even if you believe you are right. "rules" :eek2:

Oh the DRAMA!

Honda350R: I have NO business interest in any shop related to 250R’s in any way. You asked for numbers or proof, I gave them to you; make good use of the information, learn from it as I am trying to learn as well and stop with the false accusations & attacks…

Slamdak8782: I am curious if the calculated figures I was given (3 tons and .00216”) are correct; let us know what you find.

Pumashine: I will take your advice on “don't give members a bad time” and try to be more informative and less conclusive of posted opinions.

[honda350r]

Carlos ,

You have given zero proof of anything! You attack me big time!

You are way too old to be acting this way.

You are the one with the false accusations & attacks towards me and my offering of service to other people on this forum .

Talk about spin...

I gave you the correct press fit numbers of 3 tons and .00216” after you made the false statement:

“Oh yeah I will stand by, a thousands press fit ! Prove me wrong ...PLEASE ! If your proof shows up I will apologize for doubting you”

It is amazing how you keep ignoring the numbers & facts…waiting for my apology!

[xlr810]

Hi Guys,

I have sent several TRX250R counterbalances to Jim over the years. (dating back to the days of Rriders. c o m) Each time his service was fast and friendly, and professional. I send him oily, sloppy balances, and I receive them back clean with a high quality bearing that fits my cases perfectly. I cannot imagine my Rs running any more smoothly due to the counterbalance alone.

I am thankful for a low cost alternative provided by another R enthusiast. I highly recommend Honda350r (Jim) to rebuild anyone's counterbalance.

thanks, Dave

[honda350r]

Show me the specs in a Honda service manual PLEASE..

I would never just trust what you write on the computer..

At this point I can not prove you wrong as you can not prove me wrong.

The one thing I do know is that I have real world experience.

All you have is an old memory of what you thought you remember .

Can you tell me and others what would happen if a shop does not use your mad man method?

I really do not think you can answer that question because you have no clue or real world experience when it comes to rebuilding a CB ..

I am done with this madness..

Later Chuck


Jim

“Show me the specs in a Honda service manual PLEASE”…This was not your original statement, I proved you have NO idea what you are talking about when you said “.001” and a hand press fit”…

What’s your rationale to all the stupidity you posted? Why do you coward behind false accusations? Why can you not admit you have been proven wrong and move on?

Everyone is entitled to disagree but if you have no logic to support your argument, then you don’t have a valid opinion; this my friend sums you up!

[latheboy]

I machine parts for press fit all the time. .0005 interferance on a shaft/hole this size would be enough to make it a press fit, but probably not enough to ensure the CB weight stays timed properly. so, wothout merasuring, .002 press fit sounds logical. Much more than .002 would be next to getting real tight. The fixture that honda evidently reccomends sounds neat. I suspect they found that heating was the most economical way to assemble many CB'ers in a timley and accurate fashion.
This mentioned fixturing would be expensive, prob 1k+ to a shop from honda.

All that being said, I rebuilt mine working to a scribe line.

As far as gear to shaft orientation, when this thread first started, I did the math of a 1/2 degree on a 3 inch diameter. (guessing at gear OD, I dont have one here) If I remember correctly that came to about .015 of an inch. I am satisfied working to a layout line. I understand that ace is saying, my opinion is that its not an issue if you are careful rebuilding with a press and layout line. I will be quiet now......

Latheboy:

You are the first one to post a constructive, well thought-out response in answer to the original origins of this thread. I applaud your efforts to understand and determine for yourself what makes sense and what does not, with constructive data. The Honda heated fixture makes sense, and is logical for a company like Honda to (like you said) “assemble many CB'ers in a timely and accurate fashion”…

Thanks for doing your home work and posting a logical responce!

[Pumashine]

Originally posted by latheboy
.002 press fit sounds logical.
All that being said, I rebuilt mine working to a scribe line.


This is common knowledge in your industry(and mine).
The quick easy way is to use a die gringer with cuttoff wheel installed. Just hit the end where they mate and you get a permenant mark. I know the old school guys perfer a scribe mark.
Its just not that tough.

Yes Honda uses a fixture in the assembly line production. But it is not required to do the job correctly. Honda assembly line would make your head spin. I'm sure a 250r was assembled (including welding and paint) in less than 8 hours.

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by acecarlos
Latheboy:

You are the first one to post a constructive, well thought-out response in answer to the original origins of this thread. I applaud your efforts to understand and determine for yourself what makes sense and what does not, with constructive data. The Honda heated fixture makes sense, and is logical for a company like Honda to (like you said) “assemble many CB'ers in a timely and accurate fashion”…

Thanks for doing your home work and posting a logical responce!

I don't know Jack. But I have read this post from the start. Everyone has said the same exact thing, accept ACE. You must be onboard now. NO FIXTURE NEEDED! :macho

No fixture was ever needed; unless you wanted to rebuild your CB the correct way or the Honda way...:D

[Pumashine]

No fixture was ever needed; unless you wanted to rebuild your CB the correct way or the Honda way...:D
Your arrogant ways lead us to believe you are full of yourself Ace. Are you happy you have insulted everyone coming here to get information? These forums are for guys helping out other members. For you its just a ridicule session and suggesting everyone is doing it wrong. I am grateful to the moderators you have been forever banned. Your point is seen clearly. You are a salesman in a clown suit willing to do anything to get business for the new shop you bought. So in conclusion the correct way is to scribe a line so the gear is pressed back into the same position it came off. Simple, easy and affordable to everyone. Yes the bearing is $15 to $19. Not $35 as the price you sell them on ebay.