american chopper sr vs jr

[SRH]

anyone watch it, kinda interesting but kinda sad ive seen most of the episodes from the beginning... its ashame to see how things have played out

senior is a business man...if you saw this episode paul jr is not...but hes got good people, funny to see vinny back and paul sr's weight training partner working for jr now

the bike occ built was tricker than ever but senior looked like hell

[yellowzo3]

I didn't watch it as I figured it would be the usual arguing and fighting followed by a bike built entirely out of off the shelf parts and the waterjet.

So Vinny is working for Sr or Jr? He left with Cody YEARS ago to start his own company. They got a warehouse, built a couple bikes, and it seems like they've done absolutely nothing since. I can't get their website to work either.

Sad stuff indeed. The only time they had an actual show of them building bikes was honestly like the first 2 or 3 episodes of the very first season. After that it was all drama all the time. They should have moved it to midday tv with the other soap operas :rolleyes:

They each made their money though. Sr's got tons of cars and a huge house, as does Jr. They spent an insane amount of money on that new shop too. Last I heard business was slow at OCC. Seems like once their show ended they fell off the map. Heck, was anyone even watching any of the shows other than the very last episode?

[CJM]

I honestly felt they never built good stuff, just all these stupid promo bikes for companies-which I do think were cool tho.

Most of it like already mentioned was drama and it makes for a good mens soap opera-almost like wrasslin.

I liked better jesse james before the fame went to his head-he built the bikes from the ground up.

BTW: anyone know what happened to that show with the guys who built the ripsaw tank thing. Saw a few episodes then nada.

[SRH]

vinnie is working for junior, i enjoy the show

i think the bike they built tonight was one of the more detailed but the show is less about the bike and more about the family which i enjoy because its like any sitcom , and there is only so many times they can show a detailed build without it getting old

senior looked like hell

[madskrillz2]

I always thought everything they argue about is staged or they just tell em to make it worse than it really is. I know they do something like that on The Ultimate Fighter. Several of the fighters that have been on the show have said the producers and film crew tell them to basically do what they want. They encourage them to destroy the house for example.

[Tommy Warren]

didn't watch it....the commercials led me to believe it was all about drama and very little about quality craftsmanship....so its basically the same as the last series

[slightlybent47]

I agree with everything said so far, too much drama and not enough quality building. I’m sure the show and the theme bikes paid the bills, but with the economy the way it is, those companies are not spending the money like the where. I’m sure that a lot of that drama was staged and they wouldn’t be the first to let faime and money go to there head.

[quad59]

The show sucks and except for the theme bikes you can order all the parts out of a cataloge to build an orange county chopper bike. Most of the parts on the theme bike are ordered, they just modify the tins and have custom wheels made, nothing anybody else could not achieve. As for Jr. building a new shop was stupid, to much overhead, he shouldve just built it out of his gararge.

[Guy400]

I watched it. It'll definitely be interesting to see what Jr. can build now that he's got Vinny by his side (who I always thought was the most unsung hero of OCC). The funniest part of the whole show was the radio portion where Sr. claimed his company was worth zero dollars and Jr. replies with, "Ok, I'll buy out your 80% then." The motor cycle that OCC built for that website company looked terrible. Black with teal and hot pink?? It looked like the love child from Miami Vice and Tron.

[yellowzo3]

Vinnie was always pushed to the side when bikes were unveiled and things like that (as was Rick). I think that's one of the main reasons he left but unfortunately his business didn't take off. I wonder what happened to Cody. They all got famous way too fast though.

SRH, what was wrong with Sr?

[dehner47]

Originally posted by yellowzo3
SRH, what was wrong with Sr?

STRESS.. will make a man look like s**t...

[YOURADHERE]

Realistically it seems the custom bike market has pasted them by. No one cares about these gaudy extreme bikes with pointy crap, and sharp edges. That bike last night looked like something Tron Guy would ride if he wanted to go on a murderous rampage. Now its about simplicity and quality engineering one of stuff no one has seen, not some crap cut out on a multi-million dollar lazer machine. Hell to custom bagger market has EXPLODED in the last few years. Fact is, none of these guys seem to have the ability to adapt to an ever changing market.

[Baracudaaa]

Originally posted by dehner47
STRESS.. will make a man look like s**t...

Stress and Roid Rage, he looks like he is shooting tons of juice!!!

[yellowzo3]

Originally posted by YOURADHERE
Realistically it seems the custom bike market has pasted them by. No one cares about these gaudy extreme bikes with pointy crap, and sharp edges. That bike last night looked like something Tron Guy would ride if he wanted to go on a murderous rampage. Now its about simplicity and quality engineering one of stuff no one has seen, not some crap cut out on a multi-million dollar lazer machine. Hell to custom bagger market has EXPLODED in the last few years. Fact is, none of these guys seem to have the ability to adapt to an ever changing market.

Yup.. their bikes were cool for the first season when that was the style... After that they kept using the same frame every time and all that. They don't do anything by hand so no one gives a crap about anything they "make".

You don't even see shops like West Coast Choppers in the spotlight anymore. Most of their bikes are similar to OCC's... old news.

Senior looks bad because of stress!?!? The guy is a multimillionaire now and could do absolutely nothing for the rest of his life. I don't see what he's so stressed about. So what if OCC closes down... He made his money. The real workers like Rick probably didn't make a dime off that show compared to Sr. and Jr. yet Rick showed up everyday and rarely complained. IMO Sr. brought the stress upon himself by opening up an elaborate shop, which I noticed is COMPLETELY EMPTY except for their one little area right by the office.

I don't feel bad for them at all. All of the OCC merchandise they sell as well as the profit they get from having their name on toys all over the country, their own restaurant, parts... Their business may close down but they made mega money off of this gig.

[quad59]

I have a feeling that Sr's fianances are seperated from the company and that the company is full of debt. That shop cost millions and you know he didnt pay cash for it. Thats why the appraiser said its not worth anything they have no assets its all financed.

[dehner47]

Originally posted by Baracudaaa
Stress and Roid Rage, he looks like he is shooting tons of juice!!!

HGH.. a old mans best friend. well that and viagra. then its a party.. :devil:

[CJM]

quad59 is right, ill bet you that the shop is totally financed. You just dont go out and build a custom shop, get a waterjet, hire tons of people, etc from the little bit of exposure he had before they moved. Yea im sure discovery (and later TLC) was paying him well for his show-but fact of the matter is-he sure didnt save any money as evidenced by his vehicles, that HUGE house be built, divorce, etc.

Even worse is if you watched I think a season or so ago he has another so and daughters (I think the daughters not sure) who runs his hold iron railing business and wants nothing to do with him. This leads me to believe hes a jerk and its amazing his kids and others put up with him for so long.

What I find even funnier-the post who mentioned his shop is emplty-yea it is they NEVER show anymore than that one workbench and office area it seems..dont they have anything else??

Honestly I watched it (it came on again after my post). While it was interesting it seems sr better watch out since jr hired vinne (who I agree was the best thing they had and they ALWAYS shoved him to the side it seemed) and now has a shop. Paul jr should also hire christian, that guy does excellent work and had even less facetime than vinnie. Maybe it will, work, maybe it wont. In all honesty I think he would make a heck of alot of more opening up a dealer of some kind (name recognition), servicing the bikes he sells and doing custom work as part of it.

[yellowzo3]

Tools (rachets, welders, grinders, etc...) were given (most likely given I guess) to them by companies for publicity and tv promotion and im willing to bet they got the waterjet at a SERIOUS discount since they promoted it on tv every single show and never failed to mention all it was capable of. ...Maybe there's some kind of contract that says if the show goes off the air the waterjet has to be returned or paid for or something. Who knows.

Was Cody in the show at all? I'm curious to see if he's still around or where he went. He used to just be everyones right hand man and had no real direction. Now that Vinnie went back to work with Jr is he just trying to keep the lights on at V-Force customs?

[Guy400]

No mention of what happened to Cody but I'm glad Jr. has Vinnie now. The next best thing would be to steal Rick away from Sr.

[jcv400ex]

yeah the theme bike they built wasn't all that nice aside from the tank. I thought that tank was killer. But I loved it when senior stopped at the end of the drive way and just stood there while paulie was on the phone!

[lem dad]

american choppers is a f***in joke

[CADWELL]

Billy Lane FTW!


Biker build-off was probably my favorite of all bike building reality shows. They were ablre to get everything covered in one episode and the builds were amazing. I'll never forget the one episode between Indian Larry and Billy Lane. Indian Larry assembled a Harley motor with a Pan head and a shovel head and made them work together. At then end Indian won the contest, but both him and Billy raised the trophy on stage and proceeded to cut it into pieces and throw them into the crowd......


But this is about OCC and I will say that what made them successful was they way they built the bikes the first 2 or 3 seasons.

I remeber when JR would get down on building some of the knarliest gas tanks from sheets of metal. The Stealth bike will always be one of my favorites aswell as the Widow bike and the Fire bike which I think was the Ladder 39 or 49 bike...

[SRH]

i think senior gets the short end of the stick, all of his kids seem ungrateful and he came from a much lower standard of living and appreciates the things they all have taken as a given standard, there all successful but i think senior feels they could do more or resents that they forget he put them all in a position to be successful

honestly senior is too old to keep letting his ego get in the way, and people do things different ways

jr is full of motivation and ideas but lightening doesnt strike twice, hes rebuilding occ with his name the way he would of ran it... not doing something thats going to work business wise, he needed to open a parts shop, and do some custom fab and grow it from there, his name alone would draw alot of attention...
id like to see them both be successful but sr is a superior businessman, when jr couldnt understand how th ebusiness could be worth 0 it said to me...jr doesnt know jack about business, i think at the point sr is at hes just interested in expanding his brand , hes probably made a ton of money over the yrs and its all about ego now, he seems bored on the show...he should of left that business to jr, and went on his own

[yellowzo3]

Dang this is a whole new season? I thought it was a one time show. Just saw a commercial for the next one.

[SRH]

Originally posted by yellowzo3
Dang this is a whole new season? I thought it was a one time show. Just saw a commercial for the next one.

were u watching say yes to the dress

[yellowzo3]

Originally posted by SRH
were u watching say yes to the dress

WTF lol i was watching dual survival

there something you want to tell us SRH?

[SRH]

uh uh noo:chinese:

[Guy400]

Originally posted by SRH
i think senior gets the short end of the stick, all of his kids seem ungrateful and he came from a much lower standard of living and appreciates the things they all have taken as a given standard, there all successful but i think senior feels they could do more or resents that they forget he put them all in a position to be successful
I certainly see some of that as well. But, at the same time, Sr. definitely has some issues that needs dealt with. Often times he appears (at least through TLC's editing) that he goes and stokes a fight. He clearly has no business doing the hands-on building anymore. He muffs everything up that he touches and Rick/Vinnie/Christian have to come in and fix it every time so why is he on the shop floor telling them how to build stuff?

I directly manage 30 people. My job is to make sure the business runs as expected and certain goals are met. I relay those expectations to my employees and set the boundaries. At that point it is up to them to complete the work within that framework. I don't go out in the field and tell them how to do their jobs.

OCC would be much better suited to have Sr. just stay in the office and run his empire. Leave the nuts and bolts work to the experts.

[quad2xtreme]

senior is too egotistical to not be in the spotlight...poor guy even has to compete with his own kids and talk down about them...glad he wasn't my father. I am surprised either kid has an ounce of self-esteem.

Did I mentioned he is a terrible father always putting his kids down? Says too much about his overall character.

[CHAR250R]

In the hand fabricated motorcycle world....OCC is considered a joke by their peers. Dave Perewicz, Russel Mitchel, Billy Lane, Jesse James, and the other builders think they are clowns. None of those guys were ever featured on the OCC show.

On the other hand....the show is entertaining.
I personally don't care for their bikes.
I wrench on my Harleys, and don't use dead blow hammers or impact tools like they do. I wonder if they know what a torque wrench is? :D

[yellowzo3]

Originally posted by SRH
uh uh noo:chinese:

lol the mods will be keeping an eye on your posts from now on :scary:


Guy400... When the show first started that's exactly what Sr. did. He would answer the phones and do day to day business work while Jr. did all the fab and design. It was working fine for them. I guess once the show started and they became more popular he got a little stressed out and started taking it out on Jr. a lot (phones were probably ringing off the hook... tons of parts to order, etc..). It only escalated from there it seems.

They would argue over small stuff and Jr. would tell him its really no big deal and then Sr. would just go insane.

If they would have stayed the small business they were before the show they would all still be working together and doing fine. Even with the success of the show they should have just stayed in a modest shop and added some new tools and stuff. I guess they went where the money is. But even with their complete downward spiral of events they're STILL making money by having a new season going against each other. Sad, but Discovery is tearing the family apart even more and Jr., Sr., and the rest just keep coming back for more.

[Guy400]

Regardless of who as at fault it strikes me as very curious that none of his sons talks to him anymore.

[yellowzo3]

Originally posted by Guy400
Regardless of who as at fault it strikes me as very curious that none of his sons talks to him anymore.

Oh yeah there's no doubt about it... Sr. has problems and his family disowned him for the most part.

There's so much crap to sift through with that show and family that no one will ever really know wtf is going on.

[SRH]

you can take those eccentric bike builders though that say occ is a joke and look at there business empire and compare it to occ and there a joke, point being occ got the mass producing of custom choppers down pat...they may not be artistic like those other guys but they profitted way more off the chopper craze than any of those shops, and the tv series was crucial in that, which you gotta credit to sr's business savy

you know i think sr is correct in the way he brought the boys up, with the exception of mikey there all successful men, seniors problem was he didnt respect them as men just looked at them like his boys..and you cant lean on a grown man like you can a teenager, id bet thats why they dont talk, lack of respect from sr to his children.

the whole lawsuit thing to me makes sense from sr's point of view, hes trying to teach paulie business in his own twisted way, when he was venting about paulie i sensed more frustration from sr that paul jr had learned nothing about business from him, over him being concerned that jr was a threat...its his son i think he respects paulie doing his own thing but what he is doing is dumb and sr sees that, .i think despite the ego he wanted paulie to be his replacement and paulie never showed the initiative or business sense and thats why senior was constantly on him and didnt just give it up to him, i think senior is more dissappointed than anything, id love to see them patch things up and have occ and paul jr be affiliated some how...i think its th eonly way jr will stay in business

[MX300ex]

being in a family business i can relate to alot of how things are with them today which brought back many memories as im sure alot of you guys have as well.. the point is that business was nothing without jrs designs. thats pretty much a simple fact. anyone who argues is just a moron. no lie the first seasons were the best. the shows that took 3 shows to build really showed people the amount of time put into bikes along with the hardships of the family business. i dont agree with some things pauly did either. but most of the fights were completely stupid and sr. would take it to a personal level which is horrible. esp in front of employees and cameras.

as alot of you guys have said there is a reason the sons no longer talk to sr. and its pretty evident. the last season and now this one are nothing but senior bad mouthing jr when he never once thanked him or respected him for the things he did.

once jr opens shop and actually starts getting bikes built things will go in his favor. his designs are what made occ what it is and is the reason occ nearly had to close shop. without jr the business is going downhill and its pretty clear that its going down fast.

[quadrcr161]

Billy Lane has some cool designs, but i lost respect for him when he hit that biker while driving drunk. didnt he go to jail?

Havent seen the new AC but it was always too much drama.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by MX300ex
being in a family business i can relate to alot of how things are with them today which brought back many memories as im sure alot of you guys have as well.. the point is that business was nothing without jrs designs. thats pretty much a simple fact. anyone who argues is just a moron. no lie the first seasons were the best. the shows that took 3 shows to build really showed people the amount of time put into bikes along with the hardships of the family business. i dont agree with some things pauly did either. but most of the fights were completely stupid and sr. would take it to a personal level which is horrible. esp in front of employees and cameras.

as alot of you guys have said there is a reason the sons no longer talk to sr. and its pretty evident. the last season and now this one are nothing but senior bad mouthing jr when he never once thanked him or respected him for the things he did.

once jr opens shop and actually starts getting bikes built things will go in his favor. his designs are what made occ what it is and is the reason occ nearly had to close shop. without jr the business is going downhill and its pretty clear that its going down fast.

X2. I think the only way sr stay in the limelight is with jr saving his arse. Without him, the show is boring...and so are the bikes. Vinnie was cool too. Sr will show he is "business savvy" if he kisses some *** and gets back in with jr. If not, I wouldn't be shocked to hear bankruptcy. Sr is lucky to have Discovery money to help float the business.

[sexysilverado45]

idk much about the motorcycle styles but i can tell you that the gas/oil tank on the bike occ just built was absoultly amazing and a truely one of a kind. the guy who does all the tank work is the man. i think both of them together is a deadly combo, with them apart its definatly going to hurt them both. sr. has the guy who does all the fabing(cant remeber his name) and jr has vinney so it will be interesting it is said to see how this has all panned out and i wish both of them the best in the future.

[CJM]

The only guy on american chopper (srs operation) that seems to have a clue is Rick.

[sexysilverado45]

there ya go thats his name rick is an amazing metal worker.

[cdrookie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by quadrcr161
[B]Billy Lane has some cool designs, but i lost respect for him when he hit that biker while driving drunk. didnt he go to jail?

a guy i work with stopped by choppers inc(after the biker build off series) while he was in daytona, and said billy lane was one of the biggest a holes he ever had the displeasure of running across. he wanted to check the place out and grab a couple t shirts. billy told him that you don't come into his shop to just buy t shirts and basically threw them out.


the chopper craze has past, look on ebay and see what prices they're bringing these days. as far as occ using off the shelf parts... it's the evolution of the business. they can't afford to build one off stuff as nobody would want to pay the high price for it. all the big names have/had their own line of parts.

[Ichoptop]

All of you do realize that reality TV isnt reality, RIGHT? its not reality television if there is a script. Its entertainment, made up by script writers.

oh yeah...and professional wrestling isnt real either.

and neither is Santa Clause.

[CJM]

Originally posted by Ichoptop
All of you do realize that reality TV isnt reality, RIGHT? its not reality television if there is a script. Its entertainment, made up by script writers.

oh yeah...and professional wrestling isnt real either.

and neither is Santa Clause.

I dont think they make alot of the fighting up at all on the show. Its not like wrasslin with storylines and junk, no I feel its mostly real and genuine considering if it wasnt the idea to make sr look like a jerk doesnt really work all that well.

[Scro]

I was flipping through the channels, and saw that they had a jet powered z400. It was pretty gay though, all they did with it was break a window for some reason.:confused:

[XCRacer236]

Anyone been watching this season? Pretty interesting.. 2 years after Jr. leaves OCC goes into foreclosure while PJD is still getting bigger builds.. OH, and not to forget there's talks to Rick leaving OCC...

[Pappy]

No Santa:(

[CJM]

Originally posted by XCRacer236
Anyone been watching this season? Pretty interesting.. 2 years after Jr. leaves OCC goes into foreclosure while PJD is still getting bigger builds.. OH, and not to forget there's talks to Rick leaving OCC...

I thought that was interesting as well. In all honesty I think the only guys at OCC with any talent are Christian and Rick-rest of them just dont bring anything to the table.

If anything Paul Jr is better at designing than building the bikes, Vinnie is his main builder of course and they work well together too-also that other guy (forget hisname) seems to be working out good too. They bring Rick in they got a solid and talented crew imho. Lets not forget that PJ and Vinnie were basically OCC back in the day, they designed and built the bikes and Sr just watched and helped out a little.

What I found funny as the guys who wanted the feather or whatever bike it was built, they went to PJD and he blew them off (wonder if thats dramaticized for tv?) and so they go to OCC and do it there and talk smack about PJD.

IMHO PJD is more innovative as well, the gears of war bike is shaping up to be awesome and totally outside the box anything either OCC or PJD has done imho.

[cdrookie]

Originally posted by Pappy
No Santa:(

don't believe everything you read on the internet;)

[01boneless]

hate to say it but i dont miss a single episode lol:cool:

[quad2xtreme]

I never miss an episode either...and try to keep in mind that it is soap opera drama so parts can be made up or blown out of proportion. I've always wondered how tv revenue factors into the shops business model too...meaning can either business stand on its own?

[XCRacer236]

Originally posted by CJM
I thought that was interesting as well. In all honesty I think the only guys at OCC with any talent are Christian and Rick-rest of them just dont bring anything to the table.

If anything Paul Jr is better at designing than building the bikes, Vinnie is his main builder of course and they work well together too-also that other guy (forget hisname) seems to be working out good too. They bring Rick in they got a solid and talented crew imho. Lets not forget that PJ and Vinnie were basically OCC back in the day, they designed and built the bikes and Sr just watched and helped out a little.

What I found funny as the guys who wanted the feather or whatever bike it was built, they went to PJD and he blew them off (wonder if thats dramaticized for tv?) and so they go to OCC and do it there and talk smack about PJD.

IMHO PJD is more innovative as well, the gears of war bike is shaping up to be awesome and totally outside the box anything either OCC or PJD has done imho.

Glad to see some guys still watching and supporting the show.

PJD pretty much has the best team imaginable. Jr has designs that are just unbelievable, Vinnie can build bikes with his eyes closed, and Brendon is an insane fabricator.

I really hope PJD can bring Rick over to the good side, and really show OCC and Sr. what is up.

OCC is a JOKE! The only hint of talent they have is Rick. The fat guy that does nothing but use the Water-Jet is an embarrassment to bike building.

I also call BS on that Feather bike deal at PJD. Maybe they didn't get full attention, but nobody has ever heard of their company, what do you expect? :huh

As far as the company's being able to survive without the show, I am sure they could, BUT, they wouldn't be AS successful. They wouldn't have AS MANY bikes and as big of clients, but they would still do at least well enough to keep the doors open.

[YOURADHERE]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
I never miss an episode either...and try to keep in mind that it is soap opera drama so parts can be made up or blown out of proportion. I've always wondered how tv revenue factors into the shops business model too...meaning can either business stand on its own?


Personally, I doubt it. OCC is having financial issues WITH the show still running. Outside of these theme bike, 1-2 hour long commercials sales of their production models has significantly slowed. The custom bike scene is ever changing and the whole $40,000+ fat tire, gaudy bikes have pretty much run their course. Think how many people went out and bought these bikes and crazy high prices, only to realize that they ride rough and handle like garbage. Now those bikes are a dime a dozen on craigslist for $15,000 or less. Most stay for sale for months at a time. I wouldn't be surprised to see OCC fold under within the next couple years or so. PJD Im unsure. He's got WAAAYYYYY less overhead than OCC so I could definately see him lasting alot longer. Time will tell.

[Thumpin440ex]

OCC got to big to fast, with out a mind of budget management... Thats why they are where they are today, just about broke.. I still watch the show, as I find it interesting that now since Jr, Sr split, bikes coming from both of them are looking better then when they worked with each other.. Giving, OCC bikes are drawn up, half of them are made on the water jet lol.. PJD has a nice little tight business, he has some good guys working for them, lets face it he WAS OCC.. I am not kissing his *** but the kid is good.. Hope to see them do well in the future.. Also for OCC but Paul Sr needs to wake up and get the f&k off his high horse..


John

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by XCRacer236

As far as the company's being able to survive without the show, I am sure they could, BUT, they wouldn't be AS successful. They wouldn't have AS MANY bikes and as big of clients, but they would still do at least well enough to keep the doors open.

those are some big doors to keep open. I doubt senior is willing to take his "show" money and put it into the business as revenue. I think he was counting on expensive bike builds to pay all the bills. Economy is tough and who rides bikes like those anyhow? I never see any in my travels.

[BakerRacing40]

rick has his own shop, rick petco designs & co. , i just looked again and his facebook page isn't there anymore. but i do remember it saying v-force customs and pjd on there.. so i'm pretty sure we'll see rick at the pjd shop kind like cody is now. here and there to help out when needed.

i do wonder if you put rick and brendon side by side who is better with the metal work?

[XCRacer236]

Originally posted by BakerRacing40
rick has his own shop, rick petco designs & co. , i just looked again and his facebook page isn't there anymore. but i do remember it saying v-force customs and pjd on there.. so i'm pretty sure we'll see rick at the pjd shop kind like cody is now. here and there to help out when needed.

i do wonder if you put rick and brendon side by side who is better with the metal work?

I did not know that, that's interesting.

Brendon vs. Rick.. I would say Rick, but ONLY because he is much older than Brendon and has a lot more experience. Give Brendon a few more years to perfect skills and continue working with it, and he'd be right there with Rick, IMO.

As far as the money and economy, everyone took a hit. Sr. straight up said in Monday's episode when the world headquarters were built the economy was good and sky was the limit.. that's where they messed up. having way too big of a shop and employing way to many people. Of course I dont know how much the company is worth or what any of the guys were making, BUT, when looking at Sr's compound and cars, he profited BIG from his son's talent.. Jr's house is 5x bigger than I will ever have. Hell, even Mikey's house is huge, and all he ever did was stand there and look stupid, lol. Jr. being able to walk out and drop that kind of cash on that shop, he's had income the last few years.

Oh.. and as for Jr's wife.. :devil:

[BakerRacing40]

Originally posted by XCRacer236
I did not know that, that's interesting.

Brendon vs. Rick.. I would say Rick, but ONLY because he is much older than Brendon and has a lot more experience. Give Brendon a few more years to perfect skills and continue working with it, and he'd be right there with Rick, IMO.

As far as the money and economy, everyone took a hit. Sr. straight up said in Monday's episode when the world headquarters were built the economy was good and sky was the limit.. that's where they messed up. having way too big of a shop and employing way to many people. Of course I dont know how much the company is worth or what any of the guys were making, BUT, when looking at Sr's compound and cars, he profited BIG from his son's talent.. Jr's house is 5x bigger than I will ever have. Hell, even Mikey's house is huge, and all he ever did was stand there and look stupid, lol. Jr. being able to walk out and drop that kind of cash on that shop, he's had income the last few years.

Oh.. and as for Jr's wife.. :devil:

i think brendon is new to the motorcycle side of the metal work, but you also gotta remember he is the one that made the tank for the liberty bike. they ordered it to small and he had to build a complete new one to work on it. sr wanted rick to remake it but rick said it'd take him several days to get it that smooth and still might not be as good of quality as the tank brendon makes.. so rick gave him props for sure on that, even though i'm sure i miss quoted a little? i think just metal work to metal work it would be interesting.. rick def has more experience on actual bikes and has more skill than i could ever dream of, both have talent out the *****!

if what i previously seen on facebook is true, about rick having his own shop and still associated with pjd, that might be the reason he has his own shop? get two roosters in the hen house, it becomes hard to divide the work to effectively use their talents. the one thing that makes them beyond great is they both don't seem cocky about their skills and abilities.

[JForestZ34]

I just started watching the show again and this gears of war bike pjd is makingnis gonna look sick.

I do find sr and a lot of his staff putting down jr and his workers and they don't even have any clue whats going on over there.

In this last episode sr did say he was having money problems with the building and they were going to foreclose on it and build another one out front on his property.

I would like rick to come to pjd just because then the crew will be back the way they were when the sick bikes were being built.

And I don't care what anybody says. Indian Larry was the greatest bike builder of all time. Too bad he passed away a couple years ago.

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Custom%20Bikes/Indian%20Larry%20%201.jpg

But when you take chain link and weld it together for the frame of a chopper your building and trust in it to hold for as long as you ride that bike, your the king in my book....


James

[honda400ex2003]

at least occ can incorporate a bunch of yamaha parts into a motorcycle. lol i thought it was pretty funny to see the front of the yfz on the trike they are building in the new epsiode tonight. sad....


PJD on the other hand made an awesome gears of war 3 bike! congrats to all over there.

finally decided to watch it live instead of watching it later this week as a rerun. i quite watching them for quite a while.

steve

[slightlybent47]

It’s sad that Sr. can only put down his son every time he speaks of him. It’s clear to me after watching this years episodes that Sr. is just a dick and full of himself. I think Jr. needed to get away from all the drama between the two so he can do things his own way and at his own pace. Not saying Jr’s attitude was very good when was with OCC but being on his own was the best thing for him.
Sr. doesn’t even attend any revels anymore, he leaves it up to someone else. I think Sr. has lost the drive to be a great bike builder and is just phoning it in.

[honda400ex2003]

totally agreed slightly.

it is def sad to see how he talks about both mike and jr...

steve

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
totally agreed slightly.

it is def sad to see how he talks about both mike and jr...

steve

X2 - worst father of the year award for sure. The weird thing is you can tell deep down the guy is sensitive but he absolutely refuses to let his children's lights shine brighter than his. I am not into counseling at all but truly believe he is someone who could use regular sessions.

[XCRacer236]

I agree with you guys Sr. has some issues..

The Gears trike was just insane.. Pretty hilarious that OCC tries to build one the following week... :rolleyes:

Rick doesn't work for OCC anymore btw..

Mike and Jr. leaving Sr. was the best thing for them IMO. They are doing much better without him.

[JForestZ34]

X2

with everything that was said.. It's sad to see Sr. always putting down Jr. when Sr. knows that Jr. was the face of OCC.. OCC makes some nice bikes, but they are all the same.. PJD make stuff that looks totally different and using new technology. When Jr. talks on the show I don't think I heard him yet cut his father down for anything...

It's just sad that his father can't see past that his son might be more gifted than him and let the torch pass without a problem.. He should be happy his son started his own business and is doing so well.. Not cut him down every time the camera is on him.


James

[CJM]

I agree, I dont think I have ever heard Jr say much bad about his father, same with Mikey-but all Sr does is say bad things about them.

[01boneless]

^^x2

[XCRacer236]

Completely agree with you guys.

During the day Discovery shows the old shows from the first few seasons, and to me that's just as good as watching the new ones. Back when they first started, yes Sr. would yell, but it wasn't an angry yell just to yell at Jr. It was more just for like motivation cause that's what it took for Jr. to get anything done. The bigger OCC got and the more ownership Jr. had, Sr. got more and more angry and started treating his son like crap.

And also anyone who says Jr. can't fabricate or do anything is full of complete BS. He built a LOT of stuff on the old bikes and did a lot of the assembly as well. I just think that when they hired people like Rick who could fabricate anything with their eyes closed, he didn't have to anymore so he did less and less of it.

Sr. has lost a LOT of weight and looks like he's aged 20 years in about 8..

[destey]

Senior is pulling some serious **** with the banks and local govt (taxes).

This is all from what I understand... Sr divided OCC into several companies. One owns the equipment, one owns the building etc. This allowed him to screw the banks over and reneg on his mortgage.

He also got tax breaks, in exchange he had to make payments (this I don't understand, sounds like a round about tax), but he failed to make the payments. Now the local govt is suing him.

[XCRacer236]

Originally posted by destey
Senior is pulling some serious **** with the banks and local govt (taxes).

This is all from what I understand... Sr divided OCC into several companies. One owns the equipment, one owns the building etc. This allowed him to screw the banks over and reneg on his mortgage.

He also got tax breaks, in exchange he had to make payments (this I don't understand, sounds like a round about tax), but he failed to make the payments. Now the local govt is suing him.

wouldnt surprise me

[JForestZ34]

With the way he's been bad mouthing everybody and some of the shady antics that he has been doing, I wouldn't doubt that sooner or later he's going to go under and Jr. will stay in business...

Like I said in my earlier posts, the thing that burns me up about the whole show is how Sr. is always putting everybody down that works for PJD..

Sr. was even ripping on vinny and he even left on good term with OCC and Sr. still has a problem with him.. I'm sure Sr. can build decent bikes but without rick he's useless. I bet vinny can even build a better bike than him...


James

[quad2xtreme]

the show won't be over until it goes full circle and daddy works for son. LMAO!

[CJM]

OOHHHH

Just saw the latest DSC commercial! PJD is gonna grab Rick it seems. They showed a montage of Jr picking up and hiring Vinny, Cody, etc and then a clip of Senior going ape crazy and confronting Rick and asking if he really wants to work there.

Im not to much into the drama but I feel Rick is a better addition to PJD than he is at OCC.

[Honda4life05]

I saw a commercial where Jesse James, Paul sr, and Paul jr. are going to have a build off. that should be a good show, but either way I think Jr is going to win no problem, assuming the judges know what their talking about

[HondaPohl]

Originally posted by Honda4life05
I saw a commercial where Jesse James, Paul sr, and Paul jr. are going to have a build off. that should be a good show, but either way I think Jr is going to win no problem, assuming the judges know what their talking about

Jesse James let that slip awhile ago in an interview with Howard Stern. Jesse James wins hands down. But I will say that Jr's HELPERS have been building some crazy bikes. I know JR was Orange County Choppers but you dont see him doing much lately.

[JForestZ34]

Originally posted by Honda4life05
I saw a commercial where Jesse James, Paul sr, and Paul jr. are going to have a build off. that should be a good show, but either way I think Jr is going to win no problem, assuming the judges know what their talking about


In my opinion Jessie James would spank Jr's *** in a build off. Remember Jessie can build the whole bike from scratch, bending the tank, welding, EVERYTHING.. Just does good work but I have never seen him make a tank from scratch.. Rick always did that..

Don't get me wrong Jr is one good builder but Jessie is in a totally different class.


James

[Honda4life05]

I had assumed that Jr and Sr would have their employees to help on the bike like the others. But if it is just the individuals working on the bikes, then I totally agree with you guys.

[CJM]

Jr imho is a designer not a builder, thats what Vinny is for.

Jesse James builds it from scratch period, there is no way the others can even come close. From the frame to the tank to the wheels James can do it all.

[slightlybent47]

Originally posted by CJM
OOHHHH

Just saw the latest DSC commercial! PJD is gonna grab Rick it seems. They showed a montage of Jr picking up and hiring Vinny, Cody, etc and then a clip of Senior going ape crazy and confronting Rick and asking if he really wants to work there.

Im not to much into the drama but I feel Rick is a better addition to PJD than he is at OCC.

The commercial I saw was cut where I couldn’t tell if sr. was talking about Rick or the guy that designs for occ. (can’t remember his name)
From what I made from it, one of them was talking about pjd on there web site or there fb but they cut it so no one could tell exactly what is going on.
May not be anything to it and it was cut to look like that, probably so we would watch.

[CJM]

I saw it again and yea it seemed there was a part with rick sitting down in a chair looking forlorn, a meeting in a room with the design guy at occ ans senior yelling at them. Agreed was def cut that way purposely.

[XCRacer236]

All that preview showed was Jr. talking to Cody about working at PJD full time. As well as talking about how his company has come through history to bring Vinny, Nubby, and Cody back to work with him. Then you could hear Sr. Say "Rick, can I talk to you for a second..?" Then shows Rick sittin down in a room. Followed by Sr. in the design room and saying, "You affiliated yourself with OCC NOT PJD.."

Apparently you guys missed the episode 2 weeks ago where Rick flipped **** after Jason threw the bike off the lift and told Sr. straight to his face, "Let's go back to building real bikes like we used to, not this cut and paste bull***...

I have been watching all the old episodes from day 1 on Netfilx. Let me tell you, things CHANGED when they moved into that world headquarters. Sr. and Jr. both. When they first started, Jr. did A LOT of the fabrication. The fights were brought on by Sr. and Jr. BOTH. Neither one were at full blame.

The bigger OCC got, the less Jr. did. But, he didn't HAVE to anymore. They had other guys doin all the work for him. He does all the designwork for PJD now STILL. But he has Brendon and Vinny to do everything. If you guys were runnin a business like that, I doubt you'd have a lot of time to be hands-on with the bikes either, just sayin.

As for the Jr. Sr. JJ build off.. it's idiotic. America already knows PJD builds better than OCC after the SLAUGHTER they did with the Cadillac bikes. Leave OCC out of it, and let Jr. and JJ fight for it.. THAT will be a good build off.

[wildwheels22]

As for the Jr. Sr. JJ build off.. it's idiotic. America already knows PJD builds better than OCC after the SLAUGHTER they did with the Cadillac bikes. Leave OCC out of it, and let Jr. and JJ fight for it.. THAT will be a good build off. [/B][/QUOTE]

Best part of that episode was when the crowd got quiet and you hear Pssssssssssssss. Then the bike pancakes the frame on the ground lol. Sr. wanted to knock him off the bike I bet! And Mikey, the stuff he does you can't help but laugh. Sorta like Chum Lee on Pawn Stars.

[XCRacer236]

Originally posted by wildwheels22

Best part of that episode was when the crowd got quiet and you hear Pssssssssssssss. Then the bike pancakes the frame on the ground lol. Sr. wanted to knock him off the bike I bet! And Mikey, the stuff he does you can't help but laugh. Sorta like Chum Lee on Pawn Stars.


Which episode are you talkin about?

[ProspectorJim]

Originally posted by XCRacer236
Which episode are you talkin about?

The Cadillac build off finale.

[Honda4life05]

He's talking about when Sr. And jr. Unvailed their Cadillac bikes..

[Honda4life05]

Did you guys watch tonites episode?

[CJM]

I watched it. sad rick wants to stay at occ, great codys gonna be fulltime.

[XCRacer236]

Originally posted by ProspectorJim
The Cadillac build off finale.

OHH! I thought he was talking about Monday's new episode, lol.

Yeahh, when Jr. rolls up and sets that frame on the ground, I thought it was genius! Sort of a, in your face shot for an already obvious victory for PJD! :devil:

I definitely agree it's sad Rick wants to stay at OCC. All I can figure out is Sr. must be payin him $$$$$$$$$! for him to stay...

As for Cody, I don't know I never really cared much for him.. I always liked Christian and thought he was a better overall asset than Cody. BUT, I do understand why Cody's there, he is basically family being Vinny's nephew.

[HondaPohl]

I dont think rick is gettin paid a whole lot from SR. Most of this back and forth crap I bet is written in for the show. Just wait till Jesse wipes there ***'s with this build coming up. I will say that SR's bike are getting to cookie cutterish and Jr's bikes really are one offs. Besides for the show, I wonder why Jr and mikey are acting like little girls when it comes to getting togather with SR. He is there dad. All dads can be a prick.

[slightlybent47]

My dish box went out and I didn’t see the new episode. Back to regular TV until they come out and fix it. Regular TV sucks. Out of 28 channels 15 are Spanish and 7-8 are religion, the rest have crap on them.

[Honda4life05]

I still think JR will win the 3 way build off, just my opinion! I guess we'll see dec. 4

[chase davis 81]

i think my dad is watchin this in the other room all i hear is beep beep beep beep

[YOURADHERE]

Everything Jesse James said about those guys last night was correct. I like how they got all upset over the cake and card, it was hilarious.

[YOURADHERE]

Everything Jesse James said about those guys last night was correct. I like how they got all upset over the cake and card, it was hilarious.

[Zakradu398]

If they thought the ish he said wasn't true they'd beat him instead of sittin there bxtchin. I do agree with what JessE said though only towards OCC. seems to me PJD does build some quality bikes

[Ruby Soho]

pretty cool theyre bringing jesse james into this.

[audioworks04]

The design of the cake wasnt called for in my opinion. But I agree i have not been impressed with OCC's builds, they basically have one talented fab guy and one that that know how to run programs on a cnc very well. Where as PJD actually builds the bike and puts their hear and soul into the bike. That horse bike that occ did is god awful in my opinion. Yeah the tank is cool, but it didnt take talent, just a good cnc and programmer.

[C41Xracer]

when the boke build of airs its gonna show that jessie james is a complete package. he can build the frame tanks and fenders, ive never seen sr. build any of that on the show and its been a long time since jr has built his own tank

[C41Xracer]

if it wasnt for vinny pjd wouldnt be doing as good as it is

[XCRacer236]

Last night's episode was kinda funny. I was with Brendon, rude, but pretty funny.

"Hope your bike measures UP.." lmao.

Anyone who thinks what JJ said about the theme bikes applies to PJD either doesn't watch the show, or is off their meds. Direct your attention to Gears of War trike and 9/11 Memorial... It applies to OCC DIRECTLY.

I-Beam frame on 9/11 Memorial, Square tube frame on Commanche, Hex tube frame on Snap-On.. ALL JR's ideas...

OCC is trash. Ron makes me want to throw my TV out the window every time I see him. and JQ is the dumbest "engineer" I've ever seen.

I really believe PJD will be able to hold their own in this build-off. Brendon can do JUST AS good of a job with sheet metal as Rick can.. and that's saying A LOT. Vinnie can cut anything imaginable on Water-Jet, and Jr. can design anything.

[Honda4life05]

That arabian horse bike was one of the worst bikes built, period! Next weeks episode will be funny, they have had some great pranks

[JForestZ34]

Originally posted by XCRacer236
Last night's episode was kinda funny. I was with Brendon, rude, but pretty funny.

"Hope your bike measures UP.." lmao.

Anyone who thinks what JJ said about the theme bikes applies to PJD either doesn't watch the show, or is off their meds. Direct your attention to Gears of War trike and 9/11 Memorial... It applies to OCC DIRECTLY.

I-Beam frame on 9/11 Memorial, Square tube frame on Commanche, Hex tube frame on Snap-On.. ALL JR's ideas...

OCC is trash. Ron makes me want to throw my TV out the window every time I see him. and JQ is the dumbest "engineer" I've ever seen.

I really believe PJD will be able to hold their own in this build-off. Brendon can do JUST AS good of a job with sheet metal as Rick can.. and that's saying A LOT. Vinnie can cut anything imaginable on Water-Jet, and Jr. can design anything.

Yeah but all those bikes you mentioned jr designed. Not fabricate. JJ can make those frames himself, Jr has the frames made for him and then bolts on to it.

JJ can make the WHOLE bike from scratch himself. I don't see jr ever doing that. Like said before jr is a great designer/ partial builder but JJ is in a total different league. He's in the league with Indian Larry.


James

[XCRacer236]

Originally posted by JForestZ34
Yeah but all those bikes you mentioned jr designed. Not fabricate. JJ can make those frames himself, Jr has the frames made for him and then bolts on to it.

JJ can make the WHOLE bike from scratch himself. I don't see jr ever doing that. Like said before jr is a great designer/ partial builder but JJ is in a total different league. He's in the league

with Indian Larry.


James

Right, but its kind of like comparing apples to oranges. Comparing a theme bike to a road bike is different. I truly don't believe JJ could design a theme bike like PJD. But, building a whole bike from scratch, I agree PJD couldn't do it. So, each builder has their strengths and weaknesses.

[Ruby Soho]

I think JJ could design a theme bike as well as either of the occ guys could.. just look at his past work, why wouldnt he be able to start off of a theme and build around it?

[XCRacer236]

Originally posted by Ruby Soho
I think JJ could design a theme bike as well as either of the occ guys could.. just look at his past work, why wouldnt he be able to start off of a theme and build around it?

I believe he could build a damn good theme bike, I just don't know about it being on the scale of PJD. I don't know.. I am just a little biased cause the Black Widow is the sexiest bike I've ever seen in my life, lol.

[quad2xtreme]

Doesn't really matter to me who builds the best bike...I just like the show for the show. It is the whole package of building bikes and being entertaining to viewers. Wasn't there already a show for chopper build offs that didn't last?

[lem dad]

Billy Lane and Indain Larry tryed for years to get these jokers in a build off .
What makes them think they can beat
Jessie James? Face it without the tv show they are nothing .JR does not even like motocycles

[Thumpin440ex]

JJ is a damn good bike builder, does the old school ways.. Pual SR has no chance in this as half his bikes now are made using a machine, he builds the handle bars.. whooo, thats a good idear.. PJ on the other hand does some very nice, thought up ideas.. Should be good..



John

[JForestZ34]

Originally posted by XCRacer236
I believe he could build a damn good theme bike, I just don't know about it being on the scale of PJD. I don't know.. I am just a little biased cause the Black Widow is the sexiest bike I've ever seen in my life, lol.


Black widow is one sick bike. I'll take it in a second.. First bike I ever saw like that.

The anti venom bike I think is better than the black widow.

But if I remember correctly when JJ makes a bike he didn't use a computer to aid in the building process. He might now but that to me is a bike builder when you do it all in your head.

Indian Larry (RIP) made some sick looking bikes. Now that would have been a good build off, Indian Larry Vs. JJ. I would have loved to see that. With that said, JJ all the way for spanking OCC and PJD butt when it comes to this build off


James

[89trx250r]

Lol jesse james is more of a d-list celeb then any sort of bike builder. Its funny he talks all that **** in the commercial or whatever cause all Jr would have to have said is hey man go get divorced from Kat Von D again or wait was it that trash bag pornstar who he has kids with...Jesse James is a bigger joke then Paul SR and thats saying something...

[Zakradu398]

WTF did OCC just build? And I'm gonna have to say pjd's new plane bike or whatever is absolutely sick. Best bike from a visual standpoint I think I've personally seen. Jesse also build a sick bike which is more what I'm into but I'm still going to have to say PJD got my vote.

[ProspectorJim]

OCC... I don't even know what to say. They didn't even build a bike. PJD's bike is kind of cool, but it's just so busy and gimmicky. JJ is the only one that actually built a bike that wasn't a gimmick machine. He actually built a bike I would like to ride.

[Thumpin440ex]

Occ thought it was a tank build off.. WTF. PDJ bike was ok, I did like the exhaust, smoke deal though. That def was trick.. JJ bike has a little to much rise in the neck and bars for me.. It still is the better of the 3 IMO.. He is DEF the better BUILDER.. He can do 95% of all the things his self. while Pauly and the old man can not even do half of it... Jesse might not be the greatest human in the world, but have to give credit where it is due.. He is a true builder..



John

[sand_blaster]

I wish Occ would have built a bike not a tank thing.
I do not like Jr's , jesse's is alright but it didn't come out like he said it would. But I voted for Jesse anyways

[protraxrptr17]

I gotta go with PJD. Jesse's bike was cool, but the degree of difficulty was just not there. If the whole bike would have been as outstanding as the frame, I would give him more credit. The rest of it was just average. Just like Vinny said, you can see a bike just like that at bike week. Yeah, he made MOST of it himself. I can do that too, but I dont deserve to win a build off just because of that.

I didnt really like the style of PJD's bike, but I still think it was miles ahead of Jesse's bike as far as difficulty, choice of materials, attention to detail, etc. I dont care what Jesse says, everything has a theme in some kind of way. You have to have one basic idea and build around it, whether it be bikes, trucks, cars, houses, whatever.

OCC, do I really have to say anything about that? It was actually much worse than I thought it was gonna be.

[XCRacer236]

It's pretty sad when OCC knows they won't win the contest, yet they participate anyway.. :huh Every one of them is delusional.

I have no idea what to even say about that thing OCC built..

PJD's bike was.. unbelievable. :eek2: Like i said before, theme bike wise, they can't be beat.

JJ's bike was freakin sick. IMO, he builds real choppers and real motorcycles that can be ridden everyday. However, yeah a lot of them can be seen other places.

I don't know it's like comparing Apple's to Orange's... Either gonna be PJD or JJ.. We'll see what happens.

[CNC_guy]

Personality wise, I'm about as far from Jesse James as I can be. That being said, I like how he does things as a fabricator. The stainless steel frame alone put him ahead of the other guys to me....that stuff is hard to work with. Yea, as far as custom bikes go, his was pretty plain, but his is the one I would buy out of the 3 if I had the money to spend on a bike.

I didn't dislike PJD's bike, but I didn't really like it either. If that makes sense. I'm probably biased though...I hate pop rivets.

OCC....good gracious. That thing is cool and all, but this is a bike build off. They had the chance to create a bike of their choosing and they chose that? Surely that was made for TV....surely.

[HondaPohl]

I like the PJD bike but how much of that bike did they build?? They assembled the bike but the swinger, front end, frame was done by other companies. So what is left. The tank which that other dude made. My vote goes to Jesse hands down. At least OCC made half there ****. Remember this is a build off not a assemble off. IMO

[JForestZ34]

I have to agree with with the other posts above. PJD bike was a awesome looking bike, but lets be real something like that you not going to ride 364 days out of the year.. GREAT THEME bike but for a build off, he could of done a lot better.

OCC, JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!! WTF were they thinking building that POS? I wouldn't see them riding that thing out of the parking lot, and my opinion is that is not a bike.

JJ made his bike. FRAME AND ALL.. Vinnie says you can see those bikes at bike week and BLAH BLAH BLAH, but sad truth is JJ made his whole bike. Sure he had people help but he measured and cut,bent and welded the frame himself. Probably the only thing he didn't put together was the motor. Everything else he fabricated. OLD SCHOOL. Not like PJD with a water jet, or call up someone else to make a frame for you.

My vote went to JJ just because he put more into his.

PJD is a great bike, great design and everything but most of it was put or fabricated at another company. They just came up with the design.


James

[quad2xtreme]

Funny but in my world, Jesse is a dime a dozen and PJD makes all the money. The check goes to the designer...Jesse is a laborer. Jesse can build a million of those bikes by hand and it will never be as creative as it needs to be.

[JForestZ34]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
Funny but in my world, Jesse is a dime a dozen and PJD makes all the money. The check goes to the designer...Jesse is a laborer. Jesse can build a million of those bikes by hand and it will never be as creative as it needs to be.


You do have a good point but I still think Jr. is more of a visionary and not as good with his hands as JJ. Everything is computer generated. I just want to see jr starting from scratch more often..


James

[quad2xtreme]

I just think they are trying to compare apples and oranges. To me, Jesse is a craftsman and Paul Jr is a great theme bike designer. The best of both worlds would be a theme bike that Jesse builds but Paul Jr designs. :D I've always hated watching Paul Jr and Senior pounding on stuff to get it to fit.

And I'd like to see that contraption Sr designed hitting 80 mph.

[JForestZ34]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
I just think they are trying to compare apples and oranges. To me, Jesse is a craftsman and Paul Jr is a great theme bike designer. The best of both worlds would be a theme bike that Jesse builds but Paul Jr designs. :D I've always hated watching Paul Jr and Senior pounding on stuff to get it to fit.

And I'd like to see that contraption Sr designed hitting 80 mph.


HAHA. You probably couldn't even take that thing out of the parking lot. I would love to see that thing going down the road at even 40mph..


James

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
Funny but in my world, Jesse is a dime a dozen and PJD makes all the money. The check goes to the designer...Jesse is a laborer. Jesse can build a million of those bikes by hand and it will never be as creative as it needs to be. you are dead on. yeah he made the frame and tank, so what there is nothing to it. same with indian larry which has been mentioned in here. nothing special at all to their bikes. hate to say it pjd is far more creative and yes a better builder

[HondaPohl]

Originally posted by jb500ex
you are dead on. yeah he made the frame and tank, so what there is nothing to it. same with indian larry which has been mentioned in here. nothing special at all to their bikes. hate to say it pjd is far more creative and yes a better builder

Well if you guys think there bikes are a dime a dozen and them themselves are a dime a dozen than you guys have never been around american custom motorcycles. I hate to let you guys in on this but IMO airplane bikes, lawnmower bikes, tank bikes, corn bikes, farm bikes, golf bikes and whatever theme occ and pjd have build are ****in lame. Jesse James builds bikes for the motorcycle enthusist and the other two build bikes for million dollar corperations. There bikes will sit in some display and never be ridden. I will never knock the teutles cuz they built a hugh business that is sucessfull I guess, But to have one company build a frame than the other build a front end and than machine some parts in a cnc and flowjet will never ever ever make them better than Jesse James or Indian larry or billy lane or perawitz.

[protraxrptr17]

Maybe so, but what kind of competition was this? If you want to ride the shat out of your bike all the way across the united states, go get a gold wing or something.

[Ruby Soho]

OCC is a joke. first of all, they had that thing made for them. secondly, it was retarded.

PJD, another theme bike. anybody can look at a mustang and put its elements into a motorcycle. its the same **** he always does. i enjoy watching occ/pjd whatever it is these days but they aren't builders. they are designers.

jj is my favorite if you havent assumed that already. if you have watched or read any of his old stuff hes an oldschool fabricator. all of his tools are from or before WWII, as are his techniques. yeah, hes kind of cocky and loud but so is paul senior/junior.

fabricating is something i really enjoy doing, and maybe thats why im biased torward JJ.

also, you cant compare indian larry, and even JJ to PJD. if some big shot in tv land didnt have the great idea of the originial OCC show, PJD would be nothing. he got his so called fame from TV. i will give jesse james the benefit here with west coat choppers. he actually made his mark in the industry.

[Honda4life05]

Put my vote in for JR, we'll see in 15 min.

[XCRacer236]

Originally posted by Ruby Soho
OCC is a joke. first of all, they had that thing made for them. secondly, it was retarded.

PJD, another theme bike. anybody can look at a mustang and put its elements into a motorcycle. its the same **** he always does. i enjoy watching occ/pjd whatever it is these days but they aren't builders. they are designers.

jj is my favorite if you havent assumed that already. if you have watched or read any of his old stuff hes an oldschool fabricator. all of his tools are from or before WWII, as are his techniques. yeah, hes kind of cocky and loud but so is paul senior/junior.

fabricating is something i really enjoy doing, and maybe thats why im biased torward JJ.

also, you cant compare indian larry, and even JJ to PJD. if some big shot in tv land didnt have the great idea of the originial OCC show, PJD would be nothing. he got his so called fame from TV. i will give jesse james the benefit here with west coat choppers. he actually made his mark in the industry.

PREACH IT! :devil:

[01boneless]

well so JR. won! PAUL sr. bike was a total bust!! wasent even a bike. jesse's was nice but original but.. was more rider friendly. i just loved to see him loose after all the trash he talked :devil: JR. bike was nothing to brag about but i liked it better then any of them. and in the interview it seems like jeese was focused on attacking JR. and not the bikes. was good to see JR. and SR. kinda bond but i dont think that was truely real cause JR. seemed to still kinda bash sr. ohh well awsome live competition tho!!!!!!!

[JForestZ34]

Originally posted by jb500ex
you are dead on. yeah he made the frame and tank, so what there is nothing to it. same with indian larry which has been mentioned in here. nothing special at all to their bikes. hate to say it pjd is far more creative and yes a better builder

I've never built a frame and I assume you haven't either but I know for sure if your angles aren't right or even the bike won't ride correctly.

So it's not as simple as " there is nothing to it"

Every time you see jr doing something on a theme bike he's never cutting anything. He mostly bolting on all the crap for the theme bike. See if he can make a bike like Jesse, by hand then call him a bike builder.

IMO Jesse is a builder, jr is a designer and vinnie is an assembler. But we all have our opinion on what we like


James

[audioworks04]

I agree that JJ is a BA builder and his bikes are world class riders, but he doesnt really do anything different on his builds, they are all just raked out choppers. PJD's bike was amazing and different than anything than anyone has done, but they didnt really "build" it like JJ did, they built the tank and fenders, same thing with OCC, and in this case didnt even build a bike. OCC's bike is different, but it not even close to practical. Personally there should have been some other builders in this "buildoff" like exile and redneck eng.

[CJM]

Jesse James is a great fabricator, but his bikes are all basically the same chopper style bikes over and over with maybe a few design changes here or there. Yea he builds the frame and everything from scratch, but the bike itself isnt impressive by any means.

PJD imho is the best builder, everything is very original and hand fabbed except for the frames (so what). Every bike he builds is unique and interesting and its never the same.

OCC...wtf is that thing they built..why did they even bother and they didnt even build it themselves either.

[D Bergstrom]

First, OCC, I am not even going to comment, I just don't get it...

When PJD first started the build, I thought it had potential, but once I saw the finished product, I thought it looked horrible, just doesn't look good at all. I guess I would say it looks to busy, don't like the combo of the polished stuff and nickel plating, the huge wheels just look goofy to me. Sure, it takes alot of skill to do what they do, but if it looks bad, what's the point? I wonder how long you could actually ride it before the gas started boiling in the tank? That exhaust has to be putting alot of heat to it. I admit I watch American Chopper evey week, but building something to look at just doesn't do it for me. To me, That is what PJD built, a show piece, not a rider. Of course, I think that about most of the bikes PJD/OCC have built over the years. I always ask myself why I keep watching that show, guess it is like a car wreck, just have to look! haha

Jesse's bike looked decent, but like others have said, I thought the front was a bit to high. Good thing about his bike though, you could actually get on it and ride across the country if you wanted to. Like Jesse said, his bikes are designed to be used. He has my vote as the winner, but even his bike didn't blow me out of the water.

Doug

[honda400ex2003]

i didnt get to vote but PJD would have got my vote anyway. 90 Degree front wheel, singles on both front and rear.

occ didnt build a bike... they built that tracked thing they were bragging up. cool for a trike that you want to take off road, not for a street bike.

jesse built another 80s chopper with a springer front end.... been done for ever basically. nothing new from him or any one else.

steve

[89trx250r]

D.berg they said that there isnt any fuel in the tank for the obvious reasosn you stated. Theres a fuel cell hidden under the seat toward the bottom of the frame.

[lem dad]

If this was a real build off how much of of that thing did the old
man build How much did Jr do ? That should tell you the real winner

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by 89trx250r
D.berg they said that there isnt any fuel in the tank for the obvious reasosn you stated. Theres a fuel cell hidden under the seat toward the bottom of the frame.

Kind of figured that is what they would have to do, must have missed that part on the show last night. I like it even less now, all form, no real function.

Doug

[jake55]

the whole show was a joke. if you remember OCC got where they are today from the biker build off shows of several years past. no one had ever heard of these guys before that seris of shows. they would put indian larry up against billy lane or arlen ness or who ever. part of the deal was you had so long to build it, then you had to take it on cross country ride to get to the rally and then the fans would vote.
a 1500 mile ride would have sealed the deal for Jessie James!!! all the WANNA BE bikers like the show pieces PJD builds, REAL bikers ride REAL bikes!!! the only time you can ride a PJD bike is when your putting it in the trailer to haul it somewhere.
i laugh at JRs and vinny's comment, you can see dozens of that style at any rally, no kidding dumb @$$!!!! cause that's what you CAN RIDE to the rally, like i said, real bikers ride real bikes. and real biker chicks show em just cause they want to, not for beads!!!! :D :devil:

[CNC_guy]

Again, I come back to which bike would I buy if I were looking for something to ride. Jesse's bike wins hands down. Can you imagine riding PJD's bike with rivets all over the seat for any length of time? OCC isn't even in the conversation.

This was a bike build off...not who can build the most outrageous design. Usefulness of the bike should have been a deciding factor in my opinion.

Looking over this thread, I wonder how many people have actually ever taken raw material and made something useful. Jesse's frame easy? What an uninformed take. Turrible. On the other hand, I don't agree with knocking PJD for using a CNC mill or water-jet. There is some skill involved in designing, programming and machining something for a bike. Jesse had a CNC mill on his old show as well.

[Zakradu398]

I feel like they do this build off ish to get sr and jr talking somehwta

[jesshamner]

This show has been all drama and no bike building. Sure there is a bike to show off at the end but it just less and less about the process and more about the drama. This show had nothing to do with the bikes. You expect people that watch this show on a regular basis to vote on a bike that isn't flashy? A majority of these people don't understand the work that is put in JJ's bike to make it by hand. And to do all that with stainless?

For me though, JJ's bike still wasn't what I expected. He has built some amazing looking bikes. I think he could have done better. Maybe he needed more time. And for him to talk $h!t about cake decorating, just take a look at the shaquille o'neal bike he built.

I think Jr's bike was very creative and visually pleasing but most of you, and JJ was right. You can't ride it.

WTF was Sr thinking? Did he just completely tank it on purpose? Maybe he was jealous that OCC didn't get the Gears of War bike and wanted to take a crack at it? Maybe he's using it as publicity to break into Hollywood building. OCC sure as hell aren't building custom rideable choppers on the show.

[CNC_guy]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
Funny but in my world, Jesse is a dime a dozen and PJD makes all the money. The check goes to the designer...Jesse is a laborer. Jesse can build a million of those bikes by hand and it will never be as creative as it needs to be.

This post really makes no sense. Jesse designed and built the bike for a BIKE build off.

If anyone thinks that JJ doesn't have the creativity and skills to build a PJD styled theme bike you're crazy. In the same line of thought, if someone wanted PJD to build a no frills, non themed, true chopper, there's no doubt he could knock it out of the park. They are just different builders with different outlooks.

Sr. should have his butt kicked for OKing that glorified marshmellow roaster though.....

[quad2xtreme]

What exactly was creative about JJ chopper build? Handcrafted, absolutely. No doubt, JJ is a true craftsman. Using stainless was unique but then Lonestar built a quad frame with titanium. Neither is really creative out of the box thinking. Was there anything innovative on JJ bike? Would JJ thought to put the exhaust out the tank if he did a theme bike?

The build off was ridiculous as it was apples and oranges.

Personally, I think both guys are extremely talented...just in different ways. JJ can build a bike from the ground up from scratch. I wouldn't doubt JJ could build a running motor from scratch either...it might take him a little time to figure out some of the machines but he would. Jr needs a team of people. You can't discount design talent though...it is still a big, high paying talent. A a creative thinker can turn out great products by using laborers...but it doesn't work the other way around.

Again, the premise of the show was ridiculous to pit these against each other...and letting Sr go with that contraption made it more ridiculous. It would have been nice to see another bike up there.

Hands down, I'd buy JJ's build before Jr's. Jr's build belongs in a showroom or an art gallery.

Jesse had the chance to use this as a platform to show the world why he was so cool in his day...but he's changed in this regard too.

[CNC_guy]

Was this a creative bike build off? I took it as just a best bike build off. I'll be honest, I was a little disappointed in JJ's bike and was hoping for something a little more, but I think calling JJ "a laborer and dime a dozen" is misguided at best. Skilled craftsman are becoming a thing of the past. We could use about 3 guys at our small shop right now but they just aren't out there.

I don't follow your reasoning on designers and laborers. Many designers could never build what they design and lots of times, the builder ends up having to tweak the design on the fly. I'll give you that some guys are just labor and do what they're told, but there are a lot of guys out there that may not have a degree, but can blow your mind in what they can come up with and build on their own and they punch in and out at a shop everyday. I see this much more often than I see an engineer/designer that can actually do something without the aid of a computer.

All this being said, if I had unlimited funds, I would go to PJD and tell them to build me a no frills, no theme chopper that I could ride to work everyday if I wanted.

[quad2xtreme]

Jesse is a legend and is a true craftsman. I'd take his craftsmanship and build any day of the week. The quality of his work that I've seen over the years far exceeds Jr's. I guess I am used to the show being based on "theme fabrication" and therefore expected some cool stuff from JJ.

I really wasn't trying to put JJ down for his craftsmanship as I totally respect any person who has those type of skills. I was really just trying to point out that Jr has skills too...he has a creative mind for building theme bikes...even though he personally doesn't hold a stick to JJ when it comes to hands-on craftsmanship.

[SRH]

jesse james has more skills with building but other than the frame he bought and had guys make and paint everything else

who cares if it was them individuallly building against each other that jesse was the only one that could do it start to finish

jesse used a crew so did jr

and jr's bike was way cooler what i thought was cool was he didnt build a airplane bike he built a motorcycle with ideas from the airplane and it was completely unique he has his creative process down, idk how jesse james could deny jr's ability for design

jesse james lives in ego fantasy land where his 1980 chopper is all it takes to beat jr... please you can get a bike that looks the same as jesse james from sunl for 2000 bucks lol

the bikes vinnie was looking at that jesse james built that he said werent good enough to win were nicer than the one jesse built for the competition

if i was going to ride one of the bikes it would be jesse's however because its the original american chopper style , looks badass

he just seemed jealous all of his shows flopped and 10 yrs later junior is going strong

[XCRacer236]

You guys are arguing and missing the basic fact behind all this

Jr. is a DESIGNER.
JJ is a BUILDER.
OCC is a JOKE.

Enough said..

[jesshamner]

^^^ I like what you said here except the last part. If Jesse James didn't have a Discovery special, bike building show, and then monster garage, American choppers probably wouldn't be on the air. He and Disc. started the bike building tv craze.

[jesshamner]

Originally posted by XCRacer236
You guys are arguing and missing the basic fact behind all this

Jr. is a DESIGNER.
JJ is a BUILDER.
OCC is a JOKE.

Enough said..

Agreed.

[Thumpin440ex]

Originally posted by jesshamner
Agreed.

+ 2



John

[CNC_guy]

I guess Discovery got what they wanted though....I hadn't watched a bike show in years until this stuff. Ha.

[CHAR250R]

Originally posted by XCRacer236
You guys are arguing and missing the basic fact behind all this

Jr. is a DESIGNER.
JJ is a BUILDER.
OCC is a JOKE.

Enough said..


I could not of said it any better!!!:devil:

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by XCRacer236
You guys are arguing and missing the basic fact behind all this

Jr. is a DESIGNER.
JJ is a BUILDER.
OCC is a JOKE.

Enough said..

I would have to disagree with this in some part.

What makes a builder in the first place?

Jesse, claimes he made the bike from one end to the other but did he? who build the engine? who built the tranny, who built the wheels, who built the master cylinders and brake calipers? Jesse builds some of the parts and buys, or has others make some of the others. Is that really any differant then what OCC or PJD does.

Paul Jr. may not get his hands dirty at this point in his life (and remember Jesse walked away from actual building too when he got famous) But he still is a great designer. If you think that is easy I refer you to Jesses' own word during the show..."sometimes it might not look like I'm doing anything but, in reality I'm building something in my head and it takes time to sort it all out"... Is that any differace to what Paul Jr. does? I can think of many times Jr. was doing that very same thing at OCC when sr. would yell at him.


OCC, has lost there way. But, don't think for a minute they got to were they are without building some great bikes. Sr. is geting old and I'm sure the passion is not what it used to be and is now about keeping the buisnees going and keeping his employees employed.


Also consider the time frame these guys are under. Building a frame is not easy or quick, notic how Jesse admitted he did things more then once to get it right. With time restraints there is no way one person can build a custom bike in that amount of time. Even Jesse had to call in help because he spent so much time on just the frame.


My final thoughts on this are...how many of you people posting in this thread saying that PJD or OCC aren't real builders...have started "build" threads on this message board about your quads and are proud of the quad you "built"...ask yourself this...did you build the frame, the body work, or for that matter anything on it...or did you just buy parts and assemble a "theme" quad

PJD, OCC and JJ all have my respect as builders.

[JForestZ34]

Originally posted by Black Sheep
I would have to disagree with this in some part.

What makes a builder in the first place?

Jesse, (and his minions) claimes he made the bike from one end to the other but did he? who build the engine? who built the tranny, who built the wheels, who built the master cylinders and brake calipers? I can think of nay times Jr. was doing that very same thing at OCC when sr. would yell at him.





We all know that all the builders didn't make the master cylinders and such but I have no doubt that JJ fabricated and built more on his bike than jr did on his..


James

[Ruby Soho]

the three bikes. or should i say two bikes, that were entered didnt alter my opinion of who i liked at all.

there are only so many things you can do to a bike to make it different, and these days EVERYTHINGS been done.

i want someone to argue this one. PJR built an airplane theme bike correct? well so did JJ awile ago, but this is was a REAL build.

http://web5.soundandvisionmag.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/first_motorcycle_ride/special_features_articles/11q1/west_coast_choppers_bites_the_dust_-_special_feature/gallery/001_radial_hell_-_cycle_world_magazine_cover_-_april_2007_photo_1/3614196-1-eng-US/001_west_coast_choppers_closes_cd_gallery.jpg

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by JForestZ34
We all know that all the builders didn't make the master cylinders and such but I have no doubt that JJ fabricated and built more on his bike than jr did on his..


James

If you are going to quote me to prove a point, please get my quote correct ;)

[protraxrptr17]

Originally posted by Black Sheep



My final thoughts on this are...how many of you people posting in this thread saying that PJD or OCC aren't real builders...have started "build" threads on this message board about your quads and are proud of the quad you "built"...ask yourself this...did you build the frame, the body work, or for that matter anything on it...or did you just buy parts and assemble a "theme" quad

PJD, OCC and JJ all have my respect as builders.

I cant believe I am agreeing with black sheep, but this is truth ^^

I hand made amost everything on my bike. Most of the frame, a-arms, even the shock internals. Would you vote me builder of the year against one of jrspawns walsh bikes? NOPE

[JForestZ34]

Originally posted by Black Sheep
If you are going to quote me to prove a point, please get my quote correct ;)


That quote came from what you said.


James

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by JForestZ34
That quote came from what you said.


James

You took the begining part of one pargraph, blended it with the last part of another paragraph and twisted the meaning of both.

[01boneless]

^^^ haha busted :devil:

[89trx250r]

Its funny you use jrspawn's walsh as comparison my neighbor bought his walsh yf426 it was the biggest waste of money...The frame had multiple cracks in it that he "forgot" to mention...The motor was blown(bought the quad with no motor in it,said it just needed a new piston) Turns out the motor was unuseable for some time which he lied about...The rear linkage bearings were all shot the bearing carrier was shot the brake pads were all shot the steering stem bearing was destroyed...None of the tires held air...Most of the heims need replaced on the front end.The exhaust pipe looks like it was welded together by a blind man...What else hmmm needless to say you dont always get what you expect even when you think the person your dealing with is respectable there just in it for the money...

[OldGuyonaQuad]

Originally posted by jesshamner
^^^ I like what you said here except the last part. If Jesse James didn't have a Discovery special, bike building show, and then monster garage, American choppers probably wouldn't be on the air. He and Disc. started the bike building tv craze.

So if not for Survivor none of this is possible?

JJ and Sr and bouth huge DB's. SR comes off as a whiny vindictive cry baby and a bully, all though he has been pretty humble since Jr left and Mikey won't talk to him but he's still too petty to go fix this. Who knows maybe it's 1/2 BS and the same with JJ and all of his trash talking. Most of the time he looked and sounded stoned off his gord but all of that aside.

Was this a bike build off or a chopper build off? Becasue if that's the case JJ was the only one to build a chopper of the three. I also give JJ points for being able to ride his bike cross country.

Sr was actually smart enough to realize that he was not going to win a popularity contest so he tried something extreme in hopes of picking up a few votes. I thought it was very cool but not a bike or a chopper.

I like Jr. and most of his bikes are pretty cool but honestly I can't put my finger on what to call this thing. It looks more like metal art work then it does a bike and it certainly isn't a chopper.

JJ wins, JR second SR crybay and Vinnie is a class act

[FHKracingZ]

The show is all for tv. Cant hate on the drama, and problems because that is why this thread is even here.

On the build off, its apparent that it is staged. JJ said he only had 4 weeks to build the bike where junior said they worked hard for 2 months on the live show. So how long did they have??

JJ said he struggled working with the stainless tube for the frame. If he is such a great "blacksmith" he should of known going with a stainless frame was gonna be much much harder to make and was going to take alot of time.

I give JJ props for building alot of things himself. That is true bike building.

Back to the TV part, viewers wanna see the theme bikes, they wanna see the finished product not the process it takes to do everything. The finished products and the drama are what makes that show. Like it or not it made SR and JR both multi millionaires.

[HondaPohl]

So is this season over??

[jesshamner]

Originally posted by OldGuyonaQuad
So if not for Survivor none of this is possible?


That's not what I was saying. Reality TV was on its way because of the writer's strike. But what I am referring to is that JJ's bike building special was a huge hit. People were drawn into the process and the the suspense was to see the final product. That led to a second special that did well. Then he had his own shown and then spun off with Monster Garage. That led to other shows that were similar like American Chopper and American Hot Rod with Boyd Coddington. (SP). There was also a show that had Indian Larry on it. That might have been JJ's show but I can't really remember. They also had a few biker build off shows that spawned into an ultimate biker build off. Let's not forget about that great show called Southern Chopper that didn't last. I'm just saying that JJ kicked it all off.

[YOURADHERE]

This about sums it up...

[jesshamner]

One thing left off that list is "Make millions of dollars by doing it on a national TV show"

[JForestZ34]

Originally posted by Black Sheep
You took the begining part of one pargraph, blended it with the last part of another paragraph and twisted the meaning of both.


I didn't see I left a part that shouldn't have been there..

I only meant for the part about the master cylinders being there.. Oops


James

[MX300ex]

Originally posted by Ruby Soho
the three bikes. or should i say two bikes, that were entered didnt alter my opinion of who i liked at all.

there are only so many things you can do to a bike to make it different, and these days EVERYTHINGS been done.

i want someone to argue this one. PJR built an airplane theme bike correct? well so did JJ awile ago, but this is was a REAL build.

http://web5.soundandvisionmag.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/first_motorcycle_ride/special_features_articles/11q1/west_coast_choppers_bites_the_dust_-_special_feature/gallery/001_radial_hell_-_cycle_world_magazine_cover_-_april_2007_photo_1/3614196-1-eng-US/001_west_coast_choppers_closes_cd_gallery.jpg

i will say one thing that bike is deff a sick bike but also you have to consider the time involved. Black Sheep nailed it on the head. i watched a show on a bike jj did right before he closed shop. he did the same thing he did in the build off run his mouth about him doing this bla bla im gonna do this bla bla... during the show there was a black page saying "two months later" with no progress on the bike build.. then another black screen 10 minutes later "three weeks later" so in that time frame he lost 3 months of work that coulda been done to the bike... the point is his bike didnt get complete. and he had to ride a different bike on his ride.

nothing against jj i love his work and think he does amazing work but i think his mouth does alot of his talking.

just like another member said he has the same setup as jr or even sr. he had workers doing other parts of his bikes just as jr does. hes got big machines just as they do.

and i will say vinnie put him in his place with his comments back to jj.


i just dont think you can compare the builders to one another..