what exhaust do i need?

[bean #310]

Im new to the 2stroke world, just got an 86 r and rebuilding it from the ground up. i tore the entire motor down and put all new bearing in it and wiseco crank for an 87-89 with an 87-89 top end. it has stock bore and piston and is ported, now all i need to know is what kind of exhasut i need, can i get some opinions?

[atvmxr]

do you know who did the porting or what kind it is (XC, MX, dragracing)

what kind of riding do you do?

[maryland450r]

It mainly depends on what kind of riding you do, or where you want the meat of your power. Since your cylinder is ported, what kind of porting is done...... low/mid MX , upper midrange, or top end drag?? You usually want to try to match up the power characteristics of the pipe to your porting, etc. to get the most out of it.

ESR. CT Racing, Duncan are a few of the top contenders for pipes. Each have a pipe for each rpm range.

[bean #310]

im not sure what kind of porting is done to it since i bought it like that off of ebay. it will be staying out on the track, and doin some trail riding and thats all i dont know how i need to jet my carb either

[maryland450r]

I would recommend going with one of the following..

CT National Pipe-- Excellent low and mid range power ( I have this on my current 250r, definitely like it but will be selling it soon to try out something different)

ESR Trx5 -- Excellent all around low and mid power. A little less low end/ more top end power than the CT National

ESR Trx9 -- A little more top end oriented but still has great all around power ( This is what I want to try out since I do a lot of open field/ open trail riding)

I think the National or the trx5 would be better suited for you. There are others too but i personally am not too familiar with them.

Almost all of the Pipes and silencers made by all the different companies are interchangeable with each other. I would choose silencer according to the noise level you can deal with.

Hopefully this helps a little. Im sure others have lots of input too.

[bean #310]

thanks, i think im gona go with the esr trx5, thats what i was thinking about going with anyways, do you know how i should jet my carb or just leave it stock ?

[maryland450r]

I had the trx5 on my old 250r, I really liked it. As far as jetting goes, if it ran good before you rebuilt it, try it out with same jetting. Some of these guys on here are top notch as far as jetting advice. I just did a lot of reading and searching on here and got my carb right on the spot. It basically takes some patience and jet swapping to get these motors perfect. Your worst enemy is "too lean".

[bean #310]

alright thanks for your help, really appreciate it

[hondamancbr03]

Is the motor still out of the frame? If so we can tell you how to check your porting and that would give you a better idea what pipe would be best. Installing a mid range pipe on a top end ported motor will keep you from getting the most out of your motor.

Good time to check your squish as well.....

[bean #310]

no its all put together now but how can you tell id sure like to know

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by bean #310
no its all put together now but how can you tell id sure like to know

It's best to port time the motor while sitting on the bench, it's very easy to do. It appears you do your own work on your bike which is great to hear.....Learning everything about your motor will help you purchase the best pipe for your porting, help with jetting, tell you where the power band will come on and how hard.

If you decide to pull the motor out just post the question on how to check port timing, there are plenty of people on here that will explain how. You will need to find a motion pro degree wheel, i found mine on eBay for cheap.

[bean #310]

ok thanks i sure will get one but i hope i dont have to pull my motor apart anytime soon, lol

[maryland450r]

This sounds good. I would like to figure out a little more about my porting too. I am in the same boat... was just told the cylinder has mild porting but of course that is completely meaningless unless you know what its ported for. My motor is coming out in the next week. Time for some crank bearings already, so I'm going through it top to bottom.

[bean #310]

exactly what i did, everything went real smooth except for the counter balancer, bear was bad and its part of the counterbalancer and you cant buy them new anymore so i had to chance it and buy a used one and thankfully it was good

[hondamancbr03]

There are two stroke builders and machine shops that can rebuild the counter balancer with a new bearing....

maryland450r,
There are some great articles out there on porting.....Getting your port timing information is the first step, it really helps to know what to look for on the way the roof of the exhaust is cut, how the transfers are aimed in the cylinder, check to see if you cylinder is match ported to your cases. It's the little things that add up to extra HP.

[maryland450r]

Originally posted by hondamancbr03

maryland450r,
There are some great articles out there on porting.....Getting your port timing information is the first step, it really helps to know what to look for on the way the roof of the exhaust is cut, how the transfers are aimed in the cylinder, check to see if you cylinder is match ported to your cases. It's the little things that add up to extra HP.

Okay, cool. I will have the head off and probably be puling the motor soon anyway. I may try this out just to figure out a little.

Bean, sorry to invade your post!

[bean #310]

hey hondamancbr03, where are these machine shops located, can you tell me, and what do you mean by checking my squish?

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by bean #310
hey hondamancbr03, where are these machine shops located, can you tell me, and what do you mean by checking my squish?

I use a company called "Supior Sleeve"......The shop is in Oregon, you can send your part(s) there if you need. Another local shop for me is Twister Crank, i haven't had the owner do 250R work for me but he's a great machinist and i'm sure he could rebuild a counter balancer. Do you have any two stroke engine builders in your area?

The squish is the distance your piston at top dead center to the dome of the head.....I use a piece of solder. I or several people on this forum can walk you through the process if you want to check your squish.

If you are interested in doing your own engine work and setting your port timing, i always send people new to two strokes to a web site call Macdizzy.com

Beware having counter balancers rebuilt...

Don't just go to any machine shop no matter how good the machinist may be. The counter balancer weights when assembled with the new bearing needs to be precisely timed to the counter balancer gear & gear weight, this is almost impossible to accomplish without special fixturing to align all pieces properly.

+90% of re-built counter balancers I have seen over the years have been rebuilt incorrectly, and would cause an out of balance harmonic issue.

Use only Honda dealers or specialty re-build shops like CT Racing (562) 945-2453 , ESR (805) 489-1999 or BDT Motorsports (909) 802-6516.

[latheboy]

Ace-

If you put a timing mark on it when you take it apart, and you assemble it with the marks aligned, How can it be wrong?
Its not really that big of a deal to reassemble.
, as long as its marked before you take it apart.

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by acecarlos
Beware having counter balancers rebuilt...

Don't just go to any machine shop no matter how good the machinist may be. The counter balancer weights when assembled with the new bearing needs to be precisely timed to the counter balancer gear & gear weight, this is almost impossible to accomplish without special fixturing to align all pieces properly.

+90% of re-built counter balancers I have seen over the years have been rebuilt incorrectly, and would cause an out of balance harmonic issue.

Use only Honda dealers or specialty re-build shops like CT Racing (562) 945-2453 , ESR (805) 489-1999 or BDT Motorsports (909) 802-6516.

Seriosly? Do you have ANY idea what you are talking about without mentioning BDT??? Seriosly???
First off most any machinist can tell it's a counter balancer being it has A WEIGHT with a gear!!! Rebuilding a counter balancer is not a difficult thing to do.

Thank you for mentioning BDT Motorsports...I haven't heard that name since i started not reading your post.

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by bean #310
hey hondamancbr03, where are these machine shops located, can you tell me, and what do you mean by checking my squish?

Hey Bean,
you seem very interested in knowing everything about your bike, hopefully you are reaching out to multiple forums and two stroke builders websites to gather your knowledge. It's best to listen to many and filter out the bad information.

What area do you live in?

[bean #310]

ya im very interested in learning more bout 2 strokes i dont know much at all, lol. im from southern illinois and i dont know if there are any 2 stroke rebuilders around here or not, i have alot to learn i guess lol

[hondamancbr03]

We all started with the same knowledge as you.....There are many long standing shops on the west coast that you can send your parts two. Just ask around on forums for advice and who to avoid.

Knowledge is power so i would read everything you can find on the internet about how the two stroke works.....With a two stroke everything works together like an orchestra. Learning how the pipe works, how porting affects your engine will help you buy the right parts to work together and make the most HP.

Good luck.....There are a lot of people on here that have years of experience to help you out.

hondamancbr03:

I have seen the fixture local Honda shops used back in the 90's here in SoCal to re-assmeble counter balancers as well as the duplicate fixtures some of the top builders used and still use. They are not a simple fixture to just press everything back together.

You can re-assemble in many different ways, however; only one way is the correct way, the rest are the other way. I guess Honda does not know what they are talking about when they issued a mechanics bulleting back in late 87 on how to properly reassemble the counter balancers using specialty fixtures designed to time the gear teeth to the counter balancer weights without putting extra presure on the assembly while pressing it all back togehter, do they?

You are really the ignorent one, it shows, as you have "NO idea what you are talking about", you are a joke my friend!

Besides, you forgot to thank me for mentioning CT Racing, and ESR as well as BDT Motorsports, what is your problem with sharing accurate information?...do me a big farvor and don't read my posts!

I just private messaged you, if you have a beef with me, say it personally, face to face, I am in the Oregon area 2-3 times a year and don't have a problem discussing anything you like.
I left you my contact information, let's see how big of a man you are in person.

Just for you; BDT MOTORSPORTS!

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by acecarlos
hondamancbr03:
I have seen the fixture local Honda shops used back in the 90's here in SoCal to re-assmeble counter balancers as well as the duplicate fixtures some of the top builders used and still use. They are not a simple fixture to just press everything back together.

do me a big farvor and don't read my posts!

I just private messaged you, if you have a beef with me, say it personally, face to face, I am in the Oregon area 2-3 times a year and don't have a problem discussing anything you like.
I left you my contact information, let's see how big of a man you are in person.

Hey Special K....AKA acecarlos
Allow me to clear up a couple things before we move on to our private messages.
You just clearly pointed out that counter balancers have been rebuilt and have lasted, as I and another person mentioned...So why you even had to say anything just boggles me!

Second, this wasn't your post and i no longer read your post you idiot!

Unlike you I have actually been doing my own two stroke engine building and for many others for over 25yrs.....All i see you do is mention what you see companies do or what BDT has sitting on there bench when you stop to hang out there on a daily bases!

Third, If you are asking me to meet you behind the wood shed for a a z z kicking we will continue that conversation on PM

Bean,
Sorry for you having to experience special people such as acecarlos....This is why i suggest that you reach out to al forums and builders websites for information, DO NOT listen to just one person.

I never said anything about an azzz kicking, just that you seem to think I don't know what I am talking about and a face to face or phone dialog will show I do know my stuff...

I am not building my own equipment, don't need to as I know who the best builders are and have no problem in paying for the best.

This has gone far enough between us, PM me and let's talk, either through the phone or in person. Just remeber; I am trying to share good resources with everyone else, these resources are a value to the 250R community, nothing more.

Stop attacking my posts, and again; don't read them if you do not like or agree with my comments or opinions.

And yes; we should all look everywere to gather as much info as we can, interesting to see you totally ignored my comment on Honda's proper procedure for assembling a counter balancer when rebuilding, obviously; you have NO clue.

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by acecarlos
I am not building my own equipment, don't need to as I know who the best builders are and have no problem in paying for the best.

interesting to see you totally ignored my comment on Honda's proper procedure for assembling a counter balancer when rebuilding, obviously; you have NO clue.

Wow! This is exactly why people new to two strokes should be careful listening to just anyone!
So you don't turn a wrench but you know EVERYTHING about working on them????
Special K, there are many things Honda states as procedures that are no longer followed because better equipment has been developed or to pull more HP you have to exceed the OEM specs and steps!!!
As for you only paying for the best! For my bikes, i am the best to be working on them!

You got your PM.......You can now leave Bean's post alone and we'll discuss our love for each other off line!

Don't listen to me, listen to Honda...

Again, the counter balancer has not changed in design, rebuilding to Honda specs makes more sense than not. OK, build it your way, I will followed the recommended Honda procedure as well as what the best builders suggest.

BDT Motorsports, CT racing, ESR, Duncan...just for you my friend!

[cdrookie]

bean, any local machine shop would have no problem rebuilding your counterbalancer. the big bearing isn't cheap, and i'm not sure how many companies make that size of bearing, but don't skimp on it. if you had access to an big arbor press you could even do it yourself.

and be careful hondaman'! BDT probably is the BEST place to learn any of the martial arts and/or boxing skills, they're the BEST at everything else:macho

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by cdrookie
and be careful hondaman'! BDT probably is the BEST place to learn any of the martial arts and/or boxing skills, they're the BEST at everything else:macho

Now that's good stuff right there!!

[slamdak8782]

Acecarlos and the other guy. First of all acecarlos I've seen the bdt company mentioned many times. They may be an excellant shop but we are all tired of hearing about it. Secondly both of you need to calm down. This isn't three wheeler world site and we don't want to hear your bickering. I'm pretty sure either method will work fine scribing or factory honda ways. Lastly if you have 25 years experience you should be acting more mature at your age. This forum should be about getting experience and making friends not being rediculous at your pc. Ok I'm done I just hate to see this kind of stuff.

I am glad we all agree the BEST is BDT Motorsports and don't forget CT Racing, ESR, C&D Racing, and Duncan they are the BEST as well!

Seriously; don't listen to us, call around, ask a Honda dealer, find an old timer who use to work on Honda 250r engines back in the day, a few of these mechanics still work or manage Honda service departments....ask them how to PROPERLY assemble a counter balancer on a 250R and the tolerencing specified by Honda for the gear teeth alignment to the counter weights, and why a fixture must be used for assembly FYI, the tolerance is less than 30 minutes total (total, +/-15 minutes) or 1/2 a degree...

Just ask a Honda dealer, don't listen to all of us.

Cdrookie & hondamancbr03: FYI...BDT Motorsports stands for Bad Dog Taekwondo...at least you got something correct...Slamdak8782: agreed this is silly and gone to far, the humor helps...

:)

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by slamdak8782
Acecarlos and the other guy. First of all acecarlos I've seen the bdt company mentioned many times. They may be an excellant shop but we are all tired of hearing about it. Secondly both of you need to calm down. This isn't three wheeler world site and we don't want to hear your bickering. I'm pretty sure either method will work fine scribing or factory honda ways. Lastly if you have 25 years experience you should be acting more mature at your age. This forum should be about getting experience and making friends not being rediculous at your pc. Ok I'm done I just hate to see this kind of stuff.

I agree with every word.....As you can see he just can't let it go. I started with just poking fun over the BDT over and over, but then the ignorance and lack of being able to stand corrected just made me want to have even more fun:)

I'll step down from this one....Obviously he has BDT on his side and all i have is the Bruce Lee movies i watched growning up!!!

Bruce Lee was Bad Azzzzz, no messing with that Bad Dog....:)

[way2fast4u_250R]

got my 250r 6 months ago and rebuilding it complete-always looking for help-appreciate all of you guys letting us now good builders-just got my esr cylinder kit with pipe on friday and looks great-got my bdt motorsports gloss black center cases, polish clutch & stator cover, balanced-lightened fly wheel they look better than awesome! bought my front & rear elka shocks from duncan 4 weeks ago, just great & all good-all shops very very helpfull. at 19 i don't now a lot about building motors, i thank all of you for the leads and help full posts-keep them coming!

ps-i check out all builders before buying, i dont just belive all words writing on this board-i did check my honda shop here in ct, texas-the dude that runs service said all c-balancers are rebuilt on a honda fixture to timming the teeth to c-weigth as honda calls out-he said u need to use fixture-

i check on mi own-thanks!

paul.

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by way2fast4u_250R
got my 250r 6 months ago and rebuilding it complete-always looking for help-appreciate all of you guys letting us now good builders-just got my esr cylinder kit with pipe on friday and looks great-got my bdt motorsports gloss black center cases, polish clutch & stator cover, balanced-lightened fly wheel they look better than awesome! bought my front & rear elka shocks from duncan 4 weeks ago, just great & all good-all shops very very helpfull. at 19 i don't now a lot about building motors, i thank all of you for the leads and help full posts-keep them coming!

ps-i check out all builders before buying, i dont just belive all words writing on this board-i did check my honda shop here in ct, texas-the dude that runs service said all c-balancers are rebuilt on a honda fixture to timming the teeth to c-weigth as honda calls out-he said u need to use fixture-

i check on mi own-thanks!

paul.

Sounds like you're building a nice machine.....We enjoy seeing pictures of the build as it comes along. What year frame do you have?

[way2fast4u_250R]

i pick up a 86 trx 250r for $700-a basket case-strip down-painted the frame close to honda red-cleaning all up-motor was real back-crack cases-crack cylinder-broken rod-building motor to new-thanks for your wise words-dont get mad at me if i speak to much of these builders-they all spend lot of time on the phone answering my questions-helping me out with tips & build-need to buy camera for pics to post here-thanks!

[hondamancbr03]

Were there any cracks on the frame? Motor mounts? Did you do a gusset kit before painting?

It's good you check with different companies for information, you will discover that the two stroke community is very opinionated. There are several shops I use from time to time, I learned it's best to find a shop/machinist/builder that has the same likes that you do when it comes to power out put and delivery. If you're a trail rider don't get advice from a shop that focuses mainly on drag racing.

Keep the questions coming...There are some very educated two stroke people on this forum.

[way2fast4u_250R]

no cracks-no gusets-no damage on frame-damage engine only-thank you hondaman for your help-paul