stage 6 clutch

[redonkulousruntsracing]

I have only had the Stage 6 MKII in my kids quad for a few weeks. I am trying to get it to engage HARD. It seems like it slips on take off. This is on Seth's '09 Apex 50 that has gave me issues all season.

Here is the setup:
Stage 6 clutch - all weights removed from shoes
- red springs adjusted to 3rd long line
- about 7000-7200 stall
Stage 6 R/T vented bell (steel)
Red Malossi Torque spring w/ yellow Malossi slider
787/16/30 bando belt
3.25g rollers
Hetrickized front variator w/ no shims (outside on star washer)

I get full belt travel, the belt sits 1/16"-1/8" out of rear pulley and the shoes engage just as the rear pulleys start to seperate.
It just doesnt seem to engage hard like I want it to, in grass he should be able to rip it up, instead it just sounds like it is slipping.
I tried the 780/16/30 belt, but he seems to lose top end speed with the 780 belt because there is about 1/4" of marker left on the front variator when I run the 780 belt and I went all the way up to 5g rollers and still couldnt get full travel, that is why the 787 is in there. Any ideas, I am out of them. I want this thing to engage so hard that he better be holding on when it kicks in. I want it to slam in....

[fomospede]

ive posted somthing about the s6 clutch bell i had .nothing but trouble for me about a months worth of crying *** whining wrench throwing fury:grr:
what i found was the the bell was .014 out of round. after i trued the hub to the spindle ,via turning it in a lathe
are 50 went straight to the podium and frickin rips ,others said i did something wrong, but im very methodical at my mechanical approach and still beleive that it was shipped that way!
now i blueprint inspect all parts prior assembly which takes alot of extra time but way less headaches in the end :D
we run red springs
stall @ 6000 rpm, via a trailtech tach mounted on quad so spring fatigue can be monitored at all times!
hope this helps as the smile on yur kids face is priceless!

[marsrace2]

have you tried adding the Brass weights that came with the clutch? You either need less shoe spring or more weight on the shoes. We run the same setup on our Modified 2fast and do not get any slip in the clutch.

Is the clutch bell getting blue?

[redonkulousruntsracing]

Nope the bell looks good I use my cut out clutch cover so I can watch everything work and everything looks fine in there. I just wish I coulld get it to "HIT" when it engages. I also use that tach on our quad to monitor max rpm and engagement speed. I havent seen my kid smile on his quad in sometime, he's usually shaking his head....

[marsrace2]

tighten the shoe springs all the way in once and try it, I had to back ours off because it hit too hard.

[fomospede]

im not hounding ya but those symptoms are just like are clutch bell and you cant see it with the naked eye, do you have another bell to try or someone that could indicate it in and prove its perfect?

[nordic quad]

Also the weights that come with the clutch are for adjusting the hit/slip.Mark are you using any of the weights?

Stein A

[redonkulousruntsracing]

right! i was told that no weights made it come it the hardest, and more weights made it come in softer, sound backwards to me, i'm just going off from what I was told. I didnt read it in the installation instructions anywhere...LOL.

fomospeed - As far as the bell goes, no I never checked it, I'm not a machinist and I dont know of a way to check it, and my stock one got "loaned" out during a race to never return. by the way, it says cherry valley under your name, is that Cherry Valley, NY?

[fomospede]

no it's Illinois , even if i bought a new one i wouldn't trust it! take it to local highly refered engine machine shop and have them check the concentricity from the splined drive hole to the id of the hub. if its out they will have to cut it a little, the truer it is the more power to the wheeels:D

[hwf-racing]

I have 2 stage 6 clutches and yes the bell is blue!!! We have a Apex 100 with porting and I cant get the clutch to hook-up . Marsrace2 can turn the rpms we cant!!!I would go to the orange springs and lighten up on the number of turns on the spring. So the shoes can engage. your cluth is to tight. Yes, you will loose stall but it wont slip as much. Just teach the boy to hold the brake to get your rpm's up on the holeshot. Good Luck, Derek

[marsrace2]

Originally posted by nordic quad
Also the weights that come with the clutch are for adjusting the hit/slip.Mark are you using any of the weights?

Stein A

No weights, Red Springs, the springs at about 1/2 tension adjustment and it will rip the tires right off of it.

[redonkulousruntsracing]

Originally posted by marsrace2
No weights, Red Springs, the springs at about 1/2 tension adjustment and it will rip the tires right off of it.


Then I must be retarded, Mark, that is exactly how mine is set and is will barely turn them over on gravel. The belts seems tight and the varitor squeezes in just a hair on take off?? There is no bog in the motor, you whack the gas and it is right there...

I called Justin at Max RPM and he told me that he had to turn the red springs all the way up and a little past to get engagement @ 6500 rpm on 50's, I asked if he was talking about the orange ones but he said he used the reds, that doesnt make any sense to me, I turned mine all the way up for sh*ts and giggles and it wouldn't kick in until 8500!!

[marsrace2]

mine engages at 6800

[rmuscle]

here is something i came to realize , the first stage 6 clutch i bought at the begining of last season , i had to use the red springs tightened almost all the way , to get my 50 to engage at like 6000 , same with my 70 , red springs mabe on line 3. at the begining of this season i bought 2 new ones and need to use white springs on both my 50 and 70 . not sure what line im on i use tach gauge to dial in. so my point is there is def differance between the older and new.

[Coley'sdad#8]

I will second that, just changed some there I was just shy of the 2nd mark and now am past the 3rd mark to get same stall.
steels that are treated have alot of variables that will give them different characteristics. amount of heat in hardening, quench time, grade and purity of steels, carbon and then remember that these springs are only about .0625 or so anyway.

are your tranny gears welded they also slip sometimes

[Coley'sdad#8]

mine are welded buty we thought about just using a drop of Krazy glue on there:rolleyes: I mean we ALL have seen the commercial where the man 's hardhat is glued to the beam and he is hanging by ONE drop of glue:)

[fomospede]

i keep reading here and learning new problems ! had no clue about the tranny gears . there just press on no splines or keyways??

[Coley'sdad#8]

Fomo, your in too deep now brother you can't back out:D :D
no biggie , if you don't have a welder just carry it to someone and have the big gear welded to the shaft on the flat side. 2 little 1/2" long welds will do it @ about 140 amps with a mig using e70xx wire.
1" of e70xx weld 1/8" bead is equal to 70,000# tensile strength

[redonkulousruntsracing]

Ok really, are we joking here? I honestly have never popped open the trans on this quad, oil looks good, I have changed the oil and that is it, is there something in there I should be checking?
I know the slipper sprocket is good, because I always re-torque it, and I have a paint mark on it and it hasn't moved.

[fomospede]

Originally posted by Coley'sdad#8
Fomo, your in too deep now brother you can't back out:D :D
no biggie , if you don't have a welder just carry it to someone and have the big gear welded to the shaft on the flat side. 2 little 1/2" long welds will do it @ about 140 amps with a mig using e70xx wire.
1" of e70xx weld 1/8" bead is equal to 70,000# tensile strength
yeah im in way to deep ! but Carter showed again what are hard work can do he smoked the whole class from holeshot to checkers! makes it all good for us:p but my hairline is moving back faster than ever!!!!!!!

no joke here i took mine apart 3 weeks ago and the big gear slid in a 1/16" on the shaft. beat it back out and tig welded it.

[bulldogfallon]

Please keep in mind that other parts of the cvt affect the engagement of your clutch.

The clutch rpm is not the same as the engine rpm ...

Belt length effects your stall since it directly links the 2 pulleys which provides your drive ratio.

Hence a longer belt would allow more stall than a shorter one(width not factored in)...Since it has the ability to sit higher on the rear pulley which requires more engines rpms to turn the clutch over.

You could always run the OEM bell with that clutch if you run out of stall options...You will go through shoe springs often, but it will provide more stall.

We have always run the 782 x 16 Gates belt on our 50s


SICK AIR----We have found that the 787 belt is hard for an OEM 50 to pull around (too long) and your stall seems high to me for a 50.....The Apex quads don't turn a bunch of rpms with the stock pipe, so you should look at your set up.

So you could use a shorter belt and that would reduce the stall and also make the tranny ratio tighter and make it easier to pull.

Have you tried any heavier roller weights? That makes the quad shift...too light sounds cool, but doesn't provide any tranny ratio to take off...remember the ear lies.....timers don't

Both of our Apex quads are OEM ported w/stock pipe (70cc and 100cc) with S6 Clutch...turning no more than 10,200 RPMS and I would say we get a good portion of the hole shots....and they don't sound as cool as the DRRs turning 1,200-1,500 more rpms but they shift and move....we run more weight than most, but like I said ...they make the quad shift and give you forward motion.

What is your sprocketing?