What Religion are you? [Archive]

muff

02-04-2003, 01:38 PM

Andrew400ex

02-04-2003, 01:43 PM

Catholic here and damn proud....no jews?? haha i thnk its soo funny that no jews ride quads..except for MASTER400EX!

Stevie-D

02-04-2003, 01:51 PM

oh man i love people like you, its not like the giraffes neck grew in its lifetime, it eventually grew longer over many many years of evolution, we are still evolving today but its not in our genes to get a 3rd arm, if there were some type of mutation where a person had a 3rd arm, and if this person could reproduce then he/she/it would pass the gene on increasing the number of 3 armed people
you dont evolve because you want something, humans as a whole evolve because they need something to be able to survive
its like why did humans start walking upright? it sure wasnt cause they wanted to be taller, it was so they could see over the grass
there is no proof that evolution ever occured. take for instance the geologic column...suposedly truth, but in fact it is bs pieced together. also, why the heck havent geologists ever found a half-way mutated being? hmmm?
also the idea that the idea that the earth is billions of years old is purely bs, and can be contradicted by basic science. scientists have determined that the sun looses so much of its mass each year...and if the world was billions or even millions of years old, the sun would completely engulf the earth!!!!!;)
evolution is one majorly f-ed up idea.

MichaelS693

02-04-2003, 02:00 PM

to the other church of christ guys....what is the difference in yalls religion and baptist?

2fastandfurious

02-04-2003, 02:03 PM

I pray every-night for my quad. I also pray that UPS will F*** up and deliver some a arms and a new grab bar :D

Tommy 17

02-04-2003, 02:04 PM

catholic here...

i don't agree with 80% of the stuff they say but my rents give me no choice on what i want to do with church... if it was up to me i'd do it on my own time alone... the catholic church is about nothing but money!!!!!!

Team Outlaw #34

02-04-2003, 02:07 PM

I am a Christian!!!! :)

Sparks425Ex

02-04-2003, 02:08 PM

I am catholic but to tell ya the truth I don't believe in god. I was brought up Catholic and I think that Religions are just as hypocritical as the government. Religion is half of the worlds problems today.

TRX250X

02-04-2003, 02:13 PM

Church of Christ

400exRacerX

02-04-2003, 02:13 PM

Roman Catholic

Ralph

02-04-2003, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Stevie-D
there is no proof that evolution ever occured. take for instance the geologic column...suposedly truth, but in fact it is bs pieced together. also, why the heck havent geologists ever found a half-way mutated being? hmmm?
also the idea that the idea that the earth is billions of years old is purely bs, and can be contradicted by basic science. scientists have determined that the sun looses so much of its mass each year...and if the world was billions or even millions of years old, the sun would completely engulf the earth!!!!!;)
evolution is one majorly f-ed up idea.

lmfao

1) monkeys
2) there is so many diff sekeletons they have found that we chenging. do u know evelution doesnt occour over night? it takes place over many generations, thats why there is no suck thing as a half evolved man, they have found neolithic, cromagnon and other types of species that all have a little change...

lol, u realy think that there is such thing as god? lol did u ever read the odyssey? u know odysseus wasnt real right? IT WAS A STORY MADE UP TO TEACH THEIR RETARDED CHILDREN NOT TO STEAL NOT TO DO THIS OR THIS blablablabla...

MADE UP, watch 5000 years from now people will worship harry potter
:rolleyes:

TravEX

02-04-2003, 02:26 PM

I hope this really does not get out of hand.

i used to be very opinionistic about religion or the lack of, but now i try to keep my opinions to myself, because everyone has one, and I beleive that i am just as right and justified in my opinion as you do in your opinion, so there is never a winner

but

where are all the half evolved ape/man at?

because after all, we are still evolving? right?

Ralph

02-04-2003, 02:31 PM

we always are, thats why they predict that some time in the future we will loose our pinky cause it has no use...

Derek

02-04-2003, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by CHAUNCY
Catholic

TravEX

02-04-2003, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
lmfao

1) monkeys
2) there is so many diff sekeletons they have found that we chenging. do u know evelution doesnt occour over night? it takes place over many generations, thats why there is no suck thing as a half evolved man, they have found neolithic, cromagnon and other types of species that all have a little change...

lol, u realy think that there is such thing as god? lol did u ever read the odyssey? u know odysseus wasnt real right? IT WAS A STORY MADE UP TO TEACH THEIR RETARDED CHILDREN NOT TO STEAL NOT TO DO THIS OR THIS blablablabla...

MADE UP, watch 5000 years from now people will worship harry potter
:rolleyes:

so only a few apes evolved into what we now call the human race? why not all of them?

TC17

02-04-2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
~None~

figures:rolleyes:

i go to a catholic school.

i'm not a monkey. maybe you are:blah

Ralph

02-04-2003, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by 2003TRX250EX
figures:rolleyes:

i go to a catholic school.

i'm not a monkey. maybe you are:blah
you gotta be the funniest kid i know! man that realy hurt me. and now u will go to **** cause you have sinned,
but seriously, how long did it take you to think of that?

TC17

02-04-2003, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
you gotta be the funniest kid i know! man that realy hurt me. and now u will go to **** cause you have sinned,
but seriously, how long did it take you to think of that?

i have a lot of homework to do. couple hours. catholic school is a lot harder than public school. i'm just browsing around before i start my homework.

flyin#5

02-04-2003, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by EricB
to tired to write a long post, but i don't belive in any religons. i belive that everything was created logicly with cell progression ect.

kind of the same thing here. ive never really just been to church except for like weddings and stuff. i used to go to sunday school but not anymore. i could say alot of crap about what i think but most of the ppl on here would get poed at me so ill just keep my mouth shut:D but i do think everyone should kick out and do the crazyiest shiznit they can while they still can. id rather die on a quad then live a boring life.........

toby400ex

02-04-2003, 03:01 PM

atvistrian ................?

insane250Racer

02-04-2003, 03:16 PM

i dono wat to think sometimes i mean wat happens when you die there has got to be something when you die im just afraid that when u die its all black .....if we do come back as something I PERSONALLY WANNA COME BACK AS A BIRD ( tweet tweet bird, i kno some of u people got dirty mids lol )
SO I CAN **** ON PEOPLE.......ahha nah j/k
i dono tho have u ever listened in church some of the stories, it sounds like a drukin arabian got an idea in the middle of the night in his cave and just started writing them down ...anyone elese feel this way?

Nausty

02-04-2003, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by MXQUAD294
Here's my take on evolution. It's thought that giraffes grew longer necks to reach the leaves in the taller trees due to competition for food. However, I will never beleive this because...how many times have you need an extra arm to hold some thing, open a door, ect. Do you see a lot of three armed people running around? I rest my case.

lol, its not like that. Think of it as we all have our little differances in our body so that if our envirement changes the strongest will survive. Now it pry started off small and over time only the girraffes with longer necks survived long enough to breed again and this is over a course of millions of years. Also there is gradualism where you want something to change so bad over generations it starts to change and things not needed start to get smaller and more useless over time. For instance the tail bone, tonsils, appendix. Also we didn't come from monkeys more of we both came from one animal and we were split up like say when the 2 major continants split up and develped on from there. Also how can you explain how animals and plants are so differant on places on earth that havn't had contact to other places since the last hundred years? Like Austrailia and the Galopacose(spel?) Islands where animals have had the chance to develop differantly over time. Also I have to agree that religeon is more of a way to have people do the right thing and no matter how much suffering they may endur in this life they will be rewarded in heaven. Personally if there is something like a god I doubt it would be as we see it. Also if you don't beleive in evolution then why do you think there are so many races supportive of what their surroundings would be in their homeland and way of life?

Also the guy was right when he said most wars were started over religion and if their was a god I doubt he would let some things happen. I think as time goes on and science continues to prove the bible wrong we're gonna see a lot more realists. I think i'm gonna leave it at that. Sorry if I offended anyone but its just my opinion and I didn't mean to offend anyone.

quadridermx

02-04-2003, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by muff
oh man i love people like you, its not like the giraffes neck grew in its lifetime, it eventually grew longer over many many years of evolution, we are still evolving today but its not in our genes to get a 3rd arm, if there were some type of mutation where a person had a 3rd arm, and if this person could reproduce then he/she/it would pass the gene on increasing the number of 3 armed people

you dont evolve because you want something, humans as a whole evolve because they need something to be able to survive

its like why did humans start walking upright? it sure wasnt cause they wanted to be taller, it was so they could see over the grass

if you couldnt tell already i'm not really for religion, if you want it good for you but i'm stayin clear of it, the ideas/practices are unpractical and useless to me

Well Im not trying to start a war here... but evolution is simply impossible. I have taken a couple Biology classes and even most of the scientific world is starting to realize the evolution is just a human guess, and nothing more...

For example..

No fossil record of evolution of any kind. Yes, there is variety within a species, like different races of humans, or different birds in the same family, but no record of one thing turning into another. If anything, the fossil record disproves evolution. The fossil record shows just rock for a long time, and then all of a sudden an explosion of life that continues to this day.

Second, the primordial soup thing is baloney. The original atmosphere had to be anaerobic (no oxygen) for the ingredients of the soup to survive and not be destroyed. Yet, the organism had to use oxygen to create energy to keep living after it was hit with lightning. Interesting... this means that the split second the lightning bolt hit the soup, the organism would have had to evolve to use oxygen to fuel its existence, and also simultaneously the atmosphere of earth would have had to turn to an aerobic (oxygenated) atmosphere for the organism to survive. That... is impossible and disproves the entire theory of slow evolution. Also, any experiments done with this were in a completely controlled environment, and still didnt work.

This is not even mentioning the sun... which would also destroy the supposed ingredients of that soup.

Third, if that organism did happen to survive, and the atmosphere changed and it started living... it would have had to undergo billions of successful mutations to get to where we are today without one mistake. That... is impossible.

It is proven science that when an organism mutates, 99.9 percent of the time it dies. If it does have a successful mutation, that organism's genetic code corrects itself and reverses the mutation back to its original state. In fruit flys, this happens the very next generation.

If the organism did happen to survive and mutate a couple times, we are waaaay too complex for evolution to be true.

Take blood clotting for example. If by chance an organism did start living and breathing (need blood to benefit from breathing), it takes 12 complex chemical reations for blood to clot. These would have had to evolve within minutes, otherwise the organism would get a scratch, faint, and bleed to death.

Hundred of other body processes such as that would have had to simultaneously evolve to survive. Not possible...

Again, i'm not trying to start a war, but this is something I feel strongly about. Many people think science proves evolution, but in reality it disproves it.

Science is the process of experimenting and then explaing the end result. Evolution is a man-made idea that gives the end result, and leaves the rest to be made up by other men. This goes completely against the scientific method.

Wow, this is long... sorry for the long post, but again this is something I feel strongly about.

But we all have free will. Take it or leave it Im not meaning to offend anything or start an argument, its just how I see it.

flyin#5

02-04-2003, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by insane250Racer
i dono wat to think sometimes i mean wat happens when you die there has got to be something when you die im just afraid that when u die its all black .....if we do come back as something I PERSONALLY WANNA COME BACK AS A BIRD ( tweet tweet bird, i kno some of u people got dirty mids lol )
SO I CAN **** ON PEOPLE.......ahha nah j/k
i dono tho have u ever listened in church some of the stories, it sounds like a drukin arabian got an idea in the middle of the night in his cave and just started writing them down ...anyone elese feel this way?

this is what my dad thinks.... we will all in some sort of way "come back" just think you will die then your body decomposes into dirt then a seed gets planted in the dirt where you died and you will be part of that plant. most likely then a animal will come along and eat the plant you are apart of then you will be apart of that deer........ and so on. so just think..... you are continuing to live many ppls lives and you most likely dont know it

makes sense to me:ermm:

Nausty

02-04-2003, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by insane250Racer
i dono wat to think sometimes i mean wat happens when you die there has got to be something when you die im just afraid that when u die its all black .....if we do come back as something I PERSONALLY WANNA COME BACK AS A BIRD ( tweet tweet bird, i kno some of u people got dirty mids lol )
SO I CAN **** ON PEOPLE.......ahha nah j/k
i dono tho have u ever listened in church some of the stories, it sounds like a drukin arabian got an idea in the middle of the night in his cave and just started writing them down ...anyone elese feel this way?

Thats why so many people beleive in god because they want something to happen so bad in the afterlife. Just gotta make the best of life as you can even though it can be your heaven or **** you just gotta make the best of it imo. Also I don't think when you die its gonna be like its all black but just nothing. Lol i know thats hard to imagine but you won't have any sence of time just like when your sleeping or your in a life or death situation and its like skipping time. (happened to me, all the sudden I was jumping a ditch to then laying on a pool table trying to get up after going through our house).

quadridermx

02-04-2003, 03:33 PM

[i]
Also the guy was right when he said most wars were started over religion and if their was a god I doubt he would let some things happen. I think as time goes on and science continues to prove the bible wrong we're gonna see a lot more realists. I think i'm gonna leave it at that. Sorry if I offended anyone but its just my opinion and I didn't mean to offend anyone. [/B]

To the contrary, the bible has explained what is happening in this world. It straight out says Satan challenged god's authority to rule over man, and is given a chance to prove that no one would stay loyal to god. He's wreaking havoc with the earth trying to get people to forget about god and what we were originally on this earth for. But, the bible also says that this will end.

Ok, enough of my posts... i will stay out of it from now on since this is my personal opinion and i dont want to make this more personal than it is now.

Derek

02-04-2003, 03:35 PM

well guys..... I personally do believe in God and im not a hypocrite(sp) If you dont believe then well thats your human decision. Ive gone through some hard times and the only thing that pulled me through was my faith.

Nausty

02-04-2003, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by quadridermx
Well Im not trying to start a war here... but evolution is simply impossible. I have taken a couple Biology classes and even most of the scientific world is starting to realize the evolution is just a human guess, and nothing more...

For example..

No fossil record of evolution of any kind. Yes, there is variety within a species, like different races of humans, or different birds in the same family, but no record of one thing turning into another.

Second, the primordial soup thing is baloney. The original atmosphere had to be anaerobic (no oxygen) for the ingredients of the soup to survive and not be destroyed. Yet, the organism had to use oxygen to create energy to keep living after it was hit with lightning. Interesting... this means that the split second the lightning bolt hit the soup, the organism would have had to evolve to use oxygen to fuel its existence, and also simultaneously the atmosphere of earth would have had to turn to an aerobic (oxygenated) atmosphere for the organism to survive. That... is impossible and disproves the entire theory of slow evolution. Also, any experiments done with this were in a completely controlled environment, and still didnt work.

This is not even mentioning the sun... which would also destroy the supposed ingredients of that soup.

Third, if that organism did happen to survive, and the atmosphere changed and it started living... it would have had to undergo billions of successful mutations to get to where we are today without one mistake. That... is impossible.

It is proven science that when an organism mutates, 99.9 percent of the time it dies. If it does have a successful mutation, that organism's genetic code corrects itself and reverses the mutation back to its original state. In fruit flys, this happens the very next generation.

If the organism did happen to survive and mutate a couple times, we are waaaay too complex for evolution to be true.

Take blood clotting for example. If by chance an organism did start living and breathing (need blood to benefit from breathing), it takes 12 complex chemical reations for blood to clot. These would have had to evolve within minutes, otherwise the organism would get a scratch, faint, and bleed to death.

Hundred of other body processes such as that would have had to simultaneously evolve to survive. Not possible...

Again, i'm not trying to start a war, but this is something I feel strongly about. Many people think science proves evolution, but in reality it disproves it.

Science is the process of experimenting and then explaing the end result. Evolution is a man-made idea that gives the end result, and leaves the rest to be made up by other men. This goes completely against the scientific method.

Wow, this is long... sorry for the long post, but again this is something I feel strongly about.

But we all have free will. Take it or leave it Im not meaning to offend anything or start an argument, its just how I see it.

You pry think that animals just started out of no where though. No way the living being would be that complex to begin with. Chances are it started with bacteria or chemical reactions. What do you think about living bacteria, dogs, rats? Do you think they go to heaven? What about people with altimers and don't even know who they are? What do you think about the cell theory? How do you explain/feel about that stuff?

insane250Racer

02-04-2003, 03:36 PM

lol yea i kno wat you mean about time skipping ....happens to me all the time in school ...idono i aslo think that the min u die u start another life i dono if im a weirdo but i think about this thing alot i mean im not afraid to die i just try to have fun now but like when i think about it i get soo many ideas and it just bothers me that I cant figure it out and we will never kno cause you cant come back and tell people wat happens ... and I also think that like people that are dead dont kno it and they live their lives like they usually would and just we cant see them i dono tho wat do you guys think?

Nausty

02-04-2003, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by insane250Racer
lol yea i kno wat you mean about time skipping ....happens to me all the time in school ...idono i aslo think that the min u die u start another life i dono if im a weirdo but i think about this thing alot i mean im not afraid to die i just try to have fun now but like when i think about it i get soo many ideas and it just bothers me that I cant figure it out and we will never kno cause you cant come back and tell people wat happens ... and I also think that like people that are dead dont kno it and they live their lives like they usually would and just we cant see them i dono tho wat do you guys think?

your not weird, everyone has differant opinions on this stuff its just a touchy subject. I've thought the same thing about when you die to early that you may just continue to live normally and watch friends grow up and what not. Its all confusing and I think its pry impossible to disprove some type of religion but to me if you look at some religions god almost seems like a kid the way they punish followers and put them through stuff like its a game. (also thought of that, can you imagine getting a fishing tank and watching a living city and putting them through stuff?).

quadridermx

02-04-2003, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by Nausty
You pry think that animals just started out of no where though. No way the living being would be that complex to begin with. Chances are it started with bacteria or reactions. What do you think about living bacteria, dogs, rats? Do you think they go to heaven? What about people with altimers and don't even know who they are? What about the cell theory? How do you explain/feel about that stuff?

Well my personal opinion is that of creation. Maybe some of the things did change or whatnot, but there had to be a hand in it from some source. And when you say chances are that it happened with bacteria or reactions, in reality, chances are that this is impossible.

Also, the earth, the primordial soup, the universe are all physical objects. Where did these come from?

Have you ever seen a forest turn into a beautiful mansion without anyone laying a hand on a tree? That's even far less complicated than the human body.

So my view is that there had to be a powerful source that designed these things.

Obviously, you probably dont believe in the bible. If you do, then right in Genesis it says god created the heavens and earth. Simple as can be.

But when you talk about the rats and dogs and people with alzheimers... I have no idea what you're talking about, lol. What was the question again?

250exer

02-04-2003, 03:44 PM

Born again Christian

I don't think evolution and religion are mutally exclusive. Why couldn't God create the physical earth and at some later point decide to give one of the species an advanced reasoning process and soul. What separates man from animals (as far as we know) is our intellect or ability to reason, etc... When you think of a monkey living in a tree and eating its own feces and then you think of what man has accomplished in the last 4000 years, it's hard to view us as just an extention of that. How far have monkeys come in the past 4000 years? Or Zebras?

If you landed on Mars and saw a computer sitting there, would you say to yourself, "it looks like rocks evolved into computers on Mars, but there is just no evidence for it". Usually order does not randomly result from chaos.

This is way over my head to explain, but my point is that if I look around, I have a hard time explaining it all away as evolution or random chance.

For all of you that say that religion often gives itself a bad name, it's hard to argue with that. But there are bad athiests as well.

Whatever you believe, neat thread.

Derek

02-04-2003, 03:48 PM

I believe in evolution. Its just that the bacteria came from somewhere. And whateva caused the bacteria came from somewhere and its a never ending story.

quadridermx

02-04-2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by 250exer
Born again Christian

I don't think evolution and religion are mutally exclusive. Why couldn't God create the physical earth and at some later point decide to give one of the species an advanced reasoning process and soul. What separates man from animals (as far as we know) is our intellect or ability to reason, etc... When you think of a monkey living in a tree and eating its own feces and then you think of what man has accomplished in the last 4000 years, it's hard to view us as just an extention of that. How far have monkeys come in the past 4000 years? Or Zebras?

If you landed on Mars and saw a computer sitting there, would you say to yourself, "it looks like rocks evolved into computers on Mars, but there is just no evidence for it". Usually order does not randomly result from chaos.

This is way over my head to explain, but my point is that if I look around, I have a hard time explaining it all away as evolution or random chance.

For all of you that say that religion often gives itself a bad name, it's hard to argue with that. But there are bad athiests as well.

Whatever you believe, neat thread.

Good post! I agree, this is a neat thread to see all the different reasonings.

Nausty

02-04-2003, 03:53 PM

lol like do you think they would go to heaven even though they arn't the same person? And that we're not the only ones on earth living and going to heaven? Sorry if i'm not clear but I tend to not reread my posts and try to put 2 or 3 things down at once that i'm thinking about coming out making no sence. lol.

Also about where that stuff comes from to tell you the truth I dunno maybe there atoms were just here. I dunno much about this stuff so I could be totally wrong but most religions just seem really far fetched. Also what about where we get our energy? Its not just something we have that god gave us. I mean if god wanted to give us plants than why didn't he just do it instead of plants having to live off the sun.

MichaelS693

02-04-2003, 03:53 PM

(*SIGH*) I just dont see how someone cant believe in a higher being(spirit or w/e) but i guess its each to his own..... i to have sometime wondered if it is true.... but it all makes since in a way.... just my own opinion.......oh and evolution... sorry guys.... never happened never will (people who thought of the big bang theory are just gay)....have a nice day:D

mxracer89

02-04-2003, 03:56 PM

eveluthion......even if it does not mean enny think i think all religen is a bunch of crap.....when you die you die you do nothing you dont exits gone black out. what ever you wont to call it. i go to church ever sunday to lol i cant tell my perints cuz i think they would kill me and all my friends would not talk to me enny more and i think that perints will look at me differintally.

Ralph

02-04-2003, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by 2003TRX250EX
catholic school is a lot harder than public school.

lol i have some friends in catholic schools and their honors junior spanish class is on "me llamo raul", lol obviously its not harder since about 20 people on here said that and about all of the people i know say that

Derek

02-04-2003, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by mxracer89
when you die you die you do nothing you dont exits

Go wash off your hands cause from pulling all this stuff outta your arse. You got nothing to back that up. What you said was an opinion and you needed to stat that.

trx400ex

02-04-2003, 04:01 PM

I just want to point out to some of you who think evolution is impossible, that it isnt. Im not going deep in this, but first off you say humans are still evolving....In reality humans wont be evolving anymore due to our medical system. It like this, if we all had to run after our food to catch it, the community would begin to evolve into faster runners. WHy? because the faster runners could catch more food and they would be able to feed more offspring and make it through the winter. The slower runners would be able to support less offsrping and some would die from starvation in the winter. After a few thousand years of this fast-prospering slow-dieing out , on average the communitty would be faster. Now in modern times with our technology and medical research this isnt allowed to happen. Say people with genetical heart problems a few thousand years ago would die, and not produce any/as many offspring.....this would result in no genetic heart problems after a few million years. But with modern science and Med technology we can give these people medicene and they will lead normall lives and have kids with a greater chance of heart problems....now instead of the % of ppl with heart disorder dropping it is raising...

oK someone said something about a 3rd arm, first off there would have to be a mutation of atleast a few people with three arms, then they would have to be doing so much better than the rest of the people on earth with 2 arms that they would slowly take over and the 2 armers would be forced to die out. This is just not possible again due to the fact that a third arm wouldnt help us SURVIVE opening a door doesnt count.

I am a Catholic BTW

quadridermx

02-04-2003, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Nausty
lol like do you think they would go to heaven even though they are living? And that we're not the only ones on earth living and going to heaven? Sorry if i'm not clear but I tend to not reread my posts and try to put 2 or 3 things down at once that i'm thinking about coming out making no sence. lol.

Also about where that stuff comes from to tell you the truth I dunno maybe there is just some stuff thats just here and forms into other things as they break down and it doesn't take a genious to figure out we plants are just created and live because without light nothing lives and that what gives us energy. I dunno much about this stuff so I could be totally wrong but most religions just seem really far fetched.

Lol, this is interesting. No, I dont believe they would go to heaven while they're still living. I dont know what this has to do with evolution and where we came from but heaven is a completely different topic. If you want to know my beliefs, PM me... as that could get very personal and start a war on here.

Im not saying that things never change... what im saying is that we as living, reasoning, independently thinking humans, are way too complex to just happen by pure chance and appear out of nowhere.

And personally, I dont think the idea of a creator is a far-fetched idea. Everything you own was created by something. We as humans have proof from the bible that we were created, and have proof from science that we are not living just by chance...

Again, this is a very interesting thread, lets keep it going.

Ralph

02-04-2003, 04:02 PM

WHO CARES

can somebody close this please

quadridermx

02-04-2003, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by Derek
Go wash off your hands cause from pulling all this stuff outta your arse. You got nothing to back that up. What you said was an opinion and you needed to stat that.

Depends on if you believe in the bible or not....

Derek

02-04-2003, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by quadridermx
Depends on if you believe in the bible or not....

wait what???? i believe in the bible heavily?myabe i miss read that

Derek

02-04-2003, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
WHO CARES

can somebody close this please

no no no.....there are actually some very valid points in here. Dont close it just cause one person doesnt want to read about it anymore and all people dont agree with him.

quadridermx

02-04-2003, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by trx400ex
I just want to point out to some of you who think evolution is impossible, that it isnt. Im not going deep in this, but first off you say humans are still evolving....In reality humans wont be evolving anymore due to our medical system. It like this, if we all had to run after our food to catch it, the community would begin to evolve into faster runners. WHy? because the faster runners could catch more food and they would be able to feed more offspring and make it through the winter. The slower runners would be able to support less offsrping and some would die from starvation in the winter. After a few thousand years of this fast-prospering slow-dieing out , on average the communitty would be faster. Now in modern times with our technology and medical research this isnt allowed to happen. Say people with genetical heart problems a few thousand years ago would die, and not produce any/as many offspring.....this would result in no genetic heart problems after a few million years. But with modern science and Med technology we can give these people medicene and they will lead normall lives and have kids with a greater chance of heart problems....now instead of the % of ppl with heart disorder dropping it is raising...

oK someone said something about a 3rd arm, first off there would have to be a mutation of atleast a few people with three arms, then they would have to be doing so much better than the rest of the people on earth with 2 arms that they would slowly take over and the 2 armers would be forced to die out. This is just not possible again due to the fact that a third arm wouldnt help us SURVIVE opening a door doesnt count.

I am a Catholic BTW

You make a good point... but this is describing natural selection. This does happen and I agree with you 100%. There is a difference between evolution and natural selection.

Evolution just basically states that we came from non-living matter by chance. Natural selection is survival of the fittest.

If you guys want me to stop, just let me know. I am a very religious person and could be going beyond what some of you want me to. Sorry if this is the cast.

Ralph

02-04-2003, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Derek
wait what???? i believe in the bible heavily?myabe i miss read that

dont you believe in an old book witch is obviously made up?

EricB

02-04-2003, 04:07 PM

really the main reason why i didn't want to write a long post is because people would just brush it off. all of you creationists all belive what your told and there is no changing it. heaven forbid you think past the maical book and the guy who talks to you every sunday. i just don't understand how people can totaly just throw all sort of logical scientifical fact out the window. it's just ignorant.

i'm not bashing anyone, but people are trying to make creationism look like something that it's not. the 100% truth. i don't rule anything out, god and religion could all be true.

but think where it all stemed from. the middle ages, people needed some sort of rule. something more than a king, something that can't be killed or over rulled. something that was made up, that was all powerfull and all knowing. what did you get? god and christianity. why would anyone go arround killing people who don't belive in 'god' ? it was basicly the christians more or less enslaving and robbing the general populace. killing them if they didn't follow, then collecting taxes from them and making them work.

to me i don't see how any of that, at all could be justified in the name of god. no human is better than another simply because of their beliefs or ammount of pyhsical treasures. everyone is equal, i meen no one deserves to be treated worthless or lesser. i meen don't get me wrong bums and stuff...well they don't even try they gave up on them selves.

an as far as "where are all the half evolved human/apes and why isn't stuff evolving still" like i think nausty said, what about all the differnt skeletons and what not we've found. plus your not going to see evolution ever happen. it takes a long time and your not going to evolve if you don't need to. your body isn't simply going to change for the next hundred or so generations just because. it's just the will to live that makes things change eventually. small evolution could be developing an imunity to some toxins like poison oak or poisin ivy. or evel caluases (sp?) not really evolution but it's your body changing to it's environment and what your used to doing.

hopefully some of that made sense to someone. i wasn't trying to put anyone down, but at least maybe try not to be to ignorant. at least read about evolution and other theroys of how the earth came to be. don't just shut your self down to the bible and your preacher, your only hurting your self. i'm not trying to 'convert' anyone just at least let you try and judge for your self how the world came to be. all of these people who whole heartedly follow the church scare me really. how could someone never think twice about what someone says? or what a book says? live your life for what it is, yours. think for your self and once your mature enough make your own descisions what you think is best.

quadridermx

02-04-2003, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by Derek
wait what???? i believe in the bible heavily?myabe i miss read that

If you want to discuss that further, PM me... as this could also get very personal with everyone and I dont want to start a war in the forum.

The bible states numerous times what happens to us when we die. PM me if you want some reading material, lol. :p

trx400ex

02-04-2003, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by quadridermx
You make a good point... but this is describing natural selection. This does happen and I agree with you 100%. There is a difference between evolution and natural selection.

Evolution just basically states that we came from non-living matter by chance. Natural selection is survival of the fittest.

If you guys want me to stop, just let me know. I am a very religious person and could be going beyond what some of you want me to. Sorry if this is the cast.

Natural selection is basically evolution isnt it?

Ralph

02-04-2003, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by EricB
really the main reason why i didn't want to write a long post is because people would just brush it off. all of you creationists all belive what your told and there is no changing it. heaven forbid you think past the maical book and the guy who talks to you every sunday. i just don't understand how people can totaly just throw all sort of logical scientifical fact out the window. it's just ignorant.

i'm not bashing anyone, but people are trying to make creationism look like something that it's not. the 100% truth. i don't rule anything out, god and religion could all be true.

but think where it all stemed from. the middle ages, people needed some sort of rule. something more than a king, something that can't be killed or over rulled. something that was made up, that was all powerfull and all knowing. what did you get? god and christianity. why would anyone go arround killing people who don't belive in 'god' ? it was basicly the christians more or less enslaving and robbing the general populace. killing them if they didn't follow, then collecting taxes from them and making them work.

to me i don't see how any of that, at all could be justified in the name of god. no human is better than another simply because of their beliefs or ammount of pyhsical treasures. everyone is equal, i meen no one deserves to be treated worthless or lesser. i meen don't get me wrong bums and stuff...well they don't even try they gave up on them selves.

an as far as "where are all the half evolved human/apes and why isn't stuff evolving still" like i think nausty said, what about all the differnt skeletons and what not we've found. plus your not going to see evolution ever happen. it takes a long time and your not going to evolve if you don't need to. your body isn't simply going to change for the next hundred or so generations just because. it's just the will to live that makes things change eventually. small evolution could be developing an imunity to some toxins like poison oak or poisin ivy. or evel caluases (sp?) not really evolution but it's your body changing to it's environment and what your used to doing.

hopefully some of that made sense to someone. i wasn't trying to put anyone down, but at least maybe try not to be to ignorant. at least read about evolution and other theroys of how the earth came to be. don't just shut your self down to the bible and your preacher, your only hurting your self. i'm not trying to 'convert' anyone just at least let you try and judge for your self how the world came to be. all of these people who whole heartedly follow the church scare me really. how could someone never think twice about what someone says? or what a book says? live your life for what it is, yours. think for your self and once your mature enough make your own descisions what you think is best.

exaclty, ITS MADE UP so people can live by it and learn whats right and whats wrong.

quadridermx

02-04-2003, 04:16 PM

No, natural selection is not evolution.

Natural Selection is stating something already exists and lives and competes. Humans are not affected by natural selection as much as animals are because humans have compassion and an understanding of life, not just instinct. Humans will not kill the weak, yet the weak will not be killed because they are ill-equipped. So they continue to survive.

Among animals, the weak are killed. Animals live out of instinct.

Evolution is living matter coming from non-living matter. And then millions of beneficial mutations.... which has been scientifically proven that are not possible.

Also of interest, the bible never speaks of evolution. But it does speak a LOT about creation.

Derek

02-04-2003, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
dont you believe in an old book witch is obviously made up?

is it made up? I dont know and you dont know. ALl i know is that with out that dam* book i might not even be here today!!!!

EricB

02-04-2003, 04:20 PM

well i don't see how you could give credit to something that can't be verified as being real. maybe instead of giving credit to 'the lord' when something myseriously good happens, credit your self. if you did notice i never claimed your belifs simply to be fake. i meen who knows maybe god and all that is real but from what i can tell i don't belive so. although i do belive in evolution because there is ample proof. just check out www.google.com and search arround a bit i'm sure you'll find some interesting stuff.

Edit: Is it me or does the open forum actually have some good discusions sometimes? where is pappy and 4punks? all the other guys who ussaly post. whats your take?

Ralph

02-04-2003, 04:20 PM

well i am very happy for you

02-04-2003, 04:22 PM

im a american or somethin

quadridermx

02-04-2003, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by EricB
well i don't see how you could give credit to something that can't be verified as being real. maybe instead of giving credit to 'the lord' when something myseriously good happens, credit your self. if you did notice i never claimed your belifs simply to be fake. i meen who knows maybe god and all that is real but from what i can tell i don't belive so. although i do belive in evolution because there is ample proof. just check out www.google.com and search arround a bit i'm sure you'll find some interesting stuff.

Edit: Is it me or does the open forum actually have some good discusions sometimes? where is pappy and 4punks? all the other guys who ussaly post. whats your take?

Yeah, I agree... its hard to believe in something that cant be seen. But there are lots of things we cant see, but yet still feel the effects of, and believe in them.

But as far as evolution, ive never seen proof that can't be easily disproved. Why do you believe in evolution? What is some proof. Im not trying to be sarcastic or anything, but I am interested in anything that can prove evolution.

muff

02-04-2003, 04:25 PM

wow this thread has had a lot of decent replies since i was here earlier, some of you bring up good points about the differences bw natural selection and evolution

I have one question now tho, if evolution didnt occur then how did we get here?

did god just twitch his wand and stick us and everything else here?

Derek

02-04-2003, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by muff
did god just twitch his wand and stick us and everything else here?

possibly

02-04-2003, 04:26 PM

but who really cares beleive in what u want if u go to helll i guess u were wrong so dont put your ideas on anyone else cuz they wont care

TC17

02-04-2003, 04:27 PM

i wrote that wrong. i'm sorry. my fault. it all depends on which school you go to. i go to a Catholic school that my parents have to pay 3,000 a year for me to go to. my neighbor goes to a public school and is in the same grade as i'm in. we compared our material and his is so much easier. his grades are higher than mine and he is in honors. the stuff i do is hard and you just can't show up for a test and pass it. i tried that once and got a 50 or something. i'm in the 80% range now. our teacher decided that he would give us 4 tests tomorrow. i had to memorize the whole constition including the ammendments. in science, i have to know all the kingdoms and all this info on complez viruses and aids. in english, we are learnin all kind of stuff.

we also learn life skills, religon class. most public school don't have classes where they teach morals and such of life. my parents put me in a catholic school so i'm not on drugs, learn a lot, and become a good person. catholic schools make you appreciate what you have. my school has 15 computers. 3 or 4 in each room. they are years old. they aren't really "up to date" on that stuff. they get afterschool programs and other activities that make people think. to have high on a roll is 95% and up.

i have been to public school before. i did not get the individual attention i got in a public school. there were more students to teach. i could talk about this forever. my point is it depends on what school you go to.

back to studying:grr

02-04-2003, 04:27 PM

i dont get how they say there is only life on earth. Also when does space end? It cant just go forever and if it does stop with a wall or something what is behind that wall? :huh

quadridermx

02-04-2003, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by muff
wow this thread has had a lot of decent replies since i was here earlier, some of you bring up good points about the differences bw natural selection and evolution

I have one question now tho, if evolution didnt occur then how did we get here?

did god just twitch his wand and stick us and everything else here?

Lol...

I want to emphasize that I dont believe things dont change. Im just saying that there had to be a "builder" i guess you could say. Some of the things in evolutionary theory are very possible, but they had to be directed somehow, and not just purely by chance.

I am not saying god just said he wanted humans and poof, were are here, lol.

But I believe that some higher being had to have a hand somehow in the complexity of human life.

Nausty

02-04-2003, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by muff

did god just twitch his wand and stick us and everything else here?

If thats the case than where did god come from and who built the builder? SOme things are just here imo.

muff

02-04-2003, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by quadridermx
Yeah, I agree... its hard to believe in something that cant be seen. But there are lots of things we cant see, but yet still feel the effects of, and believe in them.

But as far as evolution, ive never seen proof that can't be easily disproved. Why do you believe in evolution? What is some proof. Im not trying to be sarcastic or anything, but I am interested in anything that can prove evolution.

with the first part i agree with you fully, and I found a pic that helps explain evolution, i know prolly everyone has seen this picture but i'm just tryin to prove a point

http://www.pcpinball.com/history/screenshots/fantastic-evolution.gif

i'm not tryin to be stubborn here cause i see where most of you are coming from

I think the big shots arent postin cause if pappy or whoever pisses ben off he'll prolly charge paps big time for advertising :devious:

quadridermx

02-04-2003, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by QuadMX18
i dont get how they say there is only life on earth. Also when does space end? It cant just go forever and if it does stop with a wall or something what is behind that wall? :huh

LOL! I never thought of it that way... :huh

And that picture is hilarious, haha.

As far as who created the builder? God is the only thing that's been around forever. But again, that depends on if you believe in the bible or not. The bible states it, but if you dont believe in the bible then i guess there is no proof.

muff

02-04-2003, 04:30 PM

muff

02-04-2003, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Nausty
If thats the case than where did god come from and who built the builder? SOme things are just here imo.

its kind of hard for me to answer that because I dont believe in God, I know what your saying but I just dont see things that way..thats all

Nausty

02-04-2003, 04:32 PM

I think I talked about this in another post but I don't think we came from monkeys but rather we both came from another primate and devoped into what we are now after being seperated.

Derek

02-04-2003, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Nausty
If thats the case than where did god come from and who built the builder? SOme things are just here imo.

see thats were your faith comes in

muff

02-04-2003, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by Derek
see thats were your faith comes in

yeah.......or lack of it

EricB

02-04-2003, 04:36 PM

"we also learn life skills, religon class. most public school don't have classes where they teach morals and such of life. my parents put me in a catholic school so i'm not on drugs, learn a lot, and become a good person. catholic schools make you appreciate what you have. "

hehe i was going to say something mean about how you said catholic school teaches you to apreciate the tangible assests you have...but hehe no reason to turnthis thread bad. lets just say a lot of people have it a lot worse than you kid. me not nesicarly being one, but lots do. so i meen thats sort of an asinine statment.

no offense, you are young so it's hard to question things like this. but honestly, it's people like your parents who are bringin' this country down! letting schools teach our kids 'morals' and 'life skills' what are parents there for? to give you a name and somewhere to live? why even have the same last name if your not going to carry it on in spirit. i know that might sound corny but serriously. unless your parents are that worthless (not saying they are) maybe i guess it's a good thing your in that school. but just curious what kinda school did they goto if you don't mind me askin?

as far as evolution proof....it's really really simple i don't know any numbers or hard facts off the top of my head. serriously use google hehe. 'evolution of man' search for that and you'll find enough facts.

Edit: "somethings are just here. thats how it is"

hehe is that what they tell you when your grandparent's died in a car crash? or did the devil do it? wheres the colection plate?

TC17

02-04-2003, 04:46 PM

my parents were mixed up in public schools back in the 70s:rolleyes:. they wanted me to be somewhere without drugs and guns and stuff.

in public schools your not aloud to pray. their is public schools for you. were is opurtunity and freedom in that? people want to take out "in God we trust" on money and "under God" out of the pledge. the school and parents both teach me. they both believe in the same thing. and so do i. i'm not brainwashed. i have my own conscience. i can think about different ideas and my own opinions. this is one of them. you can't betray the facts though.

do you think that being free and being able to pray in school is bringing America down? i think your wrong. i'm glad i know the ammendments. Ammenment 1(passed in 1791)-Religous and Political Freedom. do you know what that says?

do you think having to worry about someone beating you up or shooting you the next day is being free and American? i don't beleive that's what America is all about. and if it is, we should be ashamed of ourselves.

mxracer89

02-04-2003, 04:50 PM

wash my hands maybe you need to do it cuz all this bible stuff is coming out of your ***
i don't have prof and nether do you. but come on and just think of all this stuff that is in the bible. can you really believe all of it. the only reasone y people do is cuz they grow up with it.

Ralph

02-04-2003, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by 2003TRX250EX
my parents were mixed up in public schools back in the 70s:rolleyes:. they wanted me to be somewhere without drugs and guns and stuff.

in public schools your not aloud to pray. their is public schools for you. were is opurtunity and freedom in that? people want to take out "in God we trust" on money and "under God" out of the pledge. the school and parents both teach me. they both believe in the same thing. and so do i. i'm not brainwashed. i have my own conscience. i can think about different ideas and my own opinions. this is one of them. you can't betray the facts though.

do you think that being free and being able to pray in school is bringing America down? i think your wrong. i'm glad i know the ammendments. Ammenment 1(passed in 1791)-Religous and Political Freedom. do you know what that says?

do you think having to worry about someone beating you up or shooting you the next day is being free and American? i don't beleive that's what America is all about. and if it is, we should be ashamed of ourselves.

ALL kids i know that went to private schools have done ATLEAST weed. and most have attempted suicide, my school has over 400 computers and i think it realy makes it easier to learn..

lol, u have been brainwashed if u think that its common for some1 to get shot:rolleyes: , atleast i wont have to worry about suicide...

user101

02-04-2003, 04:53 PM

christian

and if u dont beleive in God i feel sry for u.:(

Andrew400ex

02-04-2003, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by 2003TRX250EX
i wrote that wrong. i'm sorry. my fault. it all depends on which school you go to. i go to a Catholic school that my parents have to pay 3,000 a year for me to go to. my neighbor goes to a public school and is in the same grade as i'm in. we compared our material and his is so much easier. his grades are higher than mine and he is in honors. the stuff i do is hard and you just can't show up for a test and pass it. i tried that once and got a 50 or something. i'm in the 80% range now. our teacher decided that he would give us 4 tests tomorrow. i had to memorize the whole constition including the ammendments. in science, i have to know all the kingdoms and all this info on complez viruses and aids. in english, we are learnin all kind of stuff.

we also learn life skills, religon class. most public school don't have classes where they teach morals and such of life. my parents put me in a catholic school so i'm not on drugs, learn a lot, and become a good person. catholic schools make you appreciate what you have. my school has 15 computers. 3 or 4 in each room. they are years old. they aren't really "up to date" on that stuff. they get afterschool programs and other activities that make people think. to have high on a roll is 95% and up.

i have been to public school before. i did not get the individual attention i got in a public school. there were more students to teach. i could talk about this forever. my point is it depends on what school you go to.

back to studying:grr
u said a lot of stupid stuff here, but for one i will point out i learned the kingdoms in 6th grade, and viruses in 7th. i dont see how going to private schools keeps u off drugs? theres only more kids with money to buy it. theres not guns in every public school in america,lol and theres nothing stopping anyone from going into a private school with one. ur parents are paying $3000 a year for a school with 15 computers? my public school has hundreds. i dunno,u seem like a pretty supid kid:rolleyes:

EricB

02-04-2003, 04:54 PM

allowing prayer in school is stupid, it should just be allowed. we're in america the land of the free. i agree with you there. i just don't agree how they try to teach you life skills and how you should raise kids ect. that stuff should be left to your parents!

i think it's funny how you said and i quote 'i'm not brain washed' but just read that same paragraph that contains that quote, look me in the eyes (theoreticly) and say that your not condridicting your self =P

btw how old are you?

Ralph

02-04-2003, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by EricB
allowing prayer in school is stupid, it should just be allowed. we're in america the land of the free. i agree with you there. i just don't agree how they try to teach you life skills and how you should raise kids ect. that stuff should be left to your parents!

i think it's funny how you said and i quote 'i'm not brain washed' but just read that same paragraph that contains that quote, look me in the eyes (theoreticly) and say that your not condridicting your self =P

btw how old are you?

what the **** do u want a period for talking to "god" lmfao. freedom iis that i dont have to go to some dumbass class were i talk to myslef...

TC17

02-04-2003, 04:57 PM

Derek

02-04-2003, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by mxracer89
wash my hands maybe you need to do it cuz all this bible stuff is coming out of your ***

and like a fifth of the world:rolleyes:

Nausty

02-04-2003, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by user101
christian

and if u dont beleive in God i feel sry for u.:(

WHy for not wasting my sundays and looking at myself and other things when something goes wrong instead of god? And using the ability "god gave me" of reasoning to look past religion and think about what might be really going on? Why would I go to **** just because I don't connect everything in my life with the "creator".

Ralph

02-04-2003, 05:02 PM

lol, i would just like all of you to know that i laugh at your god stories. thank you and keep talking...please

Ben

02-04-2003, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by EricB
hehe i was going to say something mean about how you said catholic school teaches you to apreciate the tangible assests you have...but hehe no reason to turnthis thread bad. lets just say a lot of people have it a lot worse than you kid. me not nesicarly being one, but lots do. so i meen thats sort of an asinine statment.

His parents are bringing down this country because they want to pay a premium, and make the financial sacrifice, to send their son to a Catholic school? Give me a break - his parents are making a huge sacrifice to send him to a school that they feel is a good learning environment that will encourge him to be the best student he can be. Most of the public schools in this country are DEEPLY flawed, with behavioral problems running rampant, security issues, low expectations of students, etc. Catholic schools on whole do not have these issues. Sure it is in part because they can choose not to accept students with a large history of problem activities, but it is in large part because the Catholic school system, as a whole, is highly disciplined (not overly so) and focuses on providing all of its students a high caliber education.

Yes I went to Catholic school. My parents were middle class, not rich. They sacrificed other luxuries so I could go to a great school. I am very greatful for their sacrifice and I feel that my Catholic school experience positioned me for the great success I am enjoying now. Most of my friends went to public schools and they were simply not as prepared for college as I was. Sure they got to my level after a couple years of extremely hard work at the college level - but their writing skills were never the same - something that they and I have discussed a million times, and a fact that they lament.

Don't get me wrong - I think the public school system in America is VERY important to the future of our country. Our country needs to spend more money on public education, and make sure that all of the money that is spent is used properly by the public school systems. I dream of a day where all public school systems are on the educational level that most Catholic schools are on now. When that day comes I believe our country will be unstoppable because we will be the best education country on the planet. Now we just have to get people into the administration of our country that will place education reform at the top of their priority list, not empire building - but that is another discussion ;)

And just for the record, the Catholic church does not teach that evolution is false. Primarily the only western (i.e. in America) churches that teach evolution is wrong are ultra conservative "Christian" churches. The Catholic church teaches that evolution IS the way that humans came into being. The Catholic church does believe that God had an integral part in the start of the process (i.e. creating the entire universe) but the whole Adam and Eve stories are known as just that - Old Testament stories.

Just for the record - I don't go to church, haven't since I was in high school, but I do know the Catholic faith and do plan on raising my children in the Catholic church :D

Ben

Derek

02-04-2003, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Ben
His parents are bringing down this country because they want to pay a premium, and make the financial sacrifice, to send their son to a Catholic school? Give me a break

Ben

ouch:p :p

EricB

02-04-2003, 05:17 PM

oops me being ignorant again...or maybe it's just not thinking through what i write 100% of the time.

but ya ben i do agree, the quality of education that a private school provides isn't even close to what public schools are pushing...as education.

but i honestly don't think that its good for a public organization to be showing kids how to live. i don't care if it's the chruch, the military or the government. it's your parents responsibility to show you the way. there is no exscuse for it either. just because your dad beats your mom and they both use herion they should still be resonsible. i dunno though, there isn't much that the government or anyone can do to make people give a rip about it though. people are still going to keep hitting their wives and doing herion. an just because they have a kid doesn't meen they're going to stop. so maybe in a sense it is good. but a whole, you can't look at american vaules case by case. there will always be the extreme bad and good. but do you agree that your parents should have a large part in your childhood values?

Yes "the catholic schools are bring down america!" that was a little bit out of anger. i didn't nesicarily meen it that way lol. just that i don't agree with them 100%

Ben

02-04-2003, 05:20 PM

lol - rant mode is almost off! :D One more thing - the idea of religion in public schools is appalling to me. Our Constitution states that there shall be no established federal religion. One of the major premises of our democratic political system's, and country's, birth was the freedom of religion. America was founded by strong people who were tired of being persecuted for their religious beliefs in Europe - where countries did have established national religions. Contrary to popular belief in some circles - Christainity (Catholics, Baptisms, Prodestants, Methodists, etc.) is not the established relgious scheme of this country. Freedom of religion means that one is free to practice ANY religion they want, and not be forced to practice, pray, or observe any religion in a public place - including public schools. My parents wanted me to have a religious schooling experience so they sent me to a religious school. I had friends who went to "Christian" schools and Jewish schools. That is the place for religion in schools - not a public school.

Ben

Pro400EXC

02-04-2003, 05:22 PM

Christian here,Non Denominal....Go to church every sun,exept when i got a race or something comes up...He def keeps me safe,cause i had many close calls..thank you Lord....t

Ralph

02-04-2003, 05:25 PM

not to affend ou ben, but around here nowadays public schools are way better, every year 90% of the students that left publick to go to private came back to public becuase it wasnt challenging. and also around here most kids in private schools have atempted suicide, so i guess its just for the good of their "afterlife":rolleyes:

02-04-2003, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
we will loose our pinky cause it has no use...
:confused2 :huh

Ben

02-04-2003, 05:25 PM

Eric - I agree with you completely - no parent should expect any organization, be it a church, government, etc. to teach their kids values. I personally never thought, nor do I think now in retrospect, that my Catholic school experience was geared (by the Church or the teachers) towards teaching me good values. Sure we had religion class and we were taught to respect each other (by discipline - if we didn't follow the rules we were punished by suspension, detention, etc) and other values but it was never meant, in my opinion, to be a substitute for parental values. I went to Catholic school with plenty of kids whose parents were worthless and believe me, the kids were fairly good in school (i.e. good enough not to get into trouble) but they were pretty rotten outside. That is a universal theme though! I think you and I agree on most points, just the way we express them is a bit different :D

EricB

02-04-2003, 05:28 PM

damn ben i almost have to agree with you but i can't. personaly i think that if they do allow prayer in schools it will almost be like a fad that passes and goes. people will make a large issue out of it for a few months but then it will pass. even though it's something as important (well imporant to people who belive) as religion is the american people are to damn shallow to give a damn if there is no money to be made.

take for example my local area here the rogue valley. there is a guy who wants to setup a 802.11 wireless network for the whole medford downtown area. with high speed acess for free. yes thats right free.people just couldn't uderstand taht. they kept saying you could make a fortune off of it! but you know what, the guy wants to do it in the name of technology and comunications, to better society. see there isn't enough of that anymore. people aren't proud to be people, just proud to have that new jaguar and that new polaris predator. i would be pretty proud if i was part of the team to establish the first wireless network in my area just to better the comunity. i dunno, either my morals are all bassakwards or everyone else is just money hungry. what ever happend to helping your fellow man?

i also respect where you are comming from, why make a rule if your just going to break it? especialy a rule as important and long standing as that. i meen they change the constitution, why don't they just sell cocaine to kids? the government has almost no guidelines that it has to follow these days it seems.

Ben

02-04-2003, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
not to affend ou ben, but around here nowadays public schools are way better, every year 90% of the students that left publick to go to private came back to public becuase it wasnt challenging. and also around here most kids in private schools have atempted suicide, so i guess its just for the good of their "afterlife":rolleyes:

No offense taken - this is an interesting discussion! In a country with an established religion (i.e. Iraq, etc.) we wouldn't have this discussion because we would be afraid of loosing our lives ;) I am glad to hear the public schools are great in your area, but that is not the norm. They are passable but have a LONG way to go nationwide. A blanket statement that most kids in private school in your area try to kill themselves seems a bit extreme, and must be a phenomena to your area, because I think if it was the case nationwide there would be an article or too about it ;) I am not saying all private schools are better than public schools - far from it. I know of several exceptional public schools in my state but overall the Catholic schools are right now at a much higher level (i.e. my graduating class had a 99% college attendance level while most local public schools had a 50% level). I want all schools to be great - public and private, and will work towards that during my lifetime with my votes :D

Tommy 17

02-04-2003, 05:33 PM

not to mention that a catholic school is a cheating enviroment for sports... did any of u ever wonder y a catholic school wins ever sports event... its bc they recruit there players... there is a catholic school here in my area... bishop carrol... they recruit kids from 30 differnt towns to play in their sports... they get the best quater back, the best running back, the best point gards, the best 3 point shooters, the best pitchers and the fastest runner... its totaly unfair what they do and should be kicked outta all sports programs... they talk how they are the best... its bc they can pick and choose who they want... my school can't do that...

i know a few of my friends that went to bishop carrol... they could not afford it anymore and had to come back to my school (public) each one was over 2 years behind me in math clases, 1 year in bio clases... u talk to half the kids in catholic schools and they are way behind the public schools...

also in the state of pa everyone in a public school has to do a senior project and pass a pssa test... my school only 10% of the kids failed the test last year... but at BC they didn't have to take the test because they never had the clases....

ok my rants off on catholic schools:devil had to get the anger out...

Derek

02-04-2003, 05:36 PM

see its the opposite in my area. The Catholic schools didnt prepar my sister for college and my public school is preparing me alot better. I can see where you are coming from ben. Most public schools arnt like mine.

Derek

02-04-2003, 05:37 PM

i would also like to point out that me and tommy are talking about the same area.:D

Ben

02-04-2003, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by EricB
[B]damn ben i almost have to agree with you but i can't.

Man, you sound like my fiance!! :D :D

I guess the bottom line for me is that I am against lots of extra government oversight and additional regulation. I value all of my rights granted to me as an American by the Constitution - the freedom of speech, the right to bear arms, the freedom of religion, the right to privacy, etc. I don't want the government to regulate my guns anymore than they already have; I don't want them to regulate my ATVs any more than they have; I don't want the FBI and CIA to have free reign to investigate me covertly when I am doing nothing wrong, and when they have no probable cause; and I don't want the government to tell me what religion my kids have to follow if they go to a public school. Heck, if I want my kids to practice some whacky religion I think I should have that right as a parent. I am big on civil rights so I guess I am biased on these points. I am not a smoker - in fact I hate to be around smoke (several of my best friends smoke and that is cool, we both respect each other and get along great!), but I STRONGLY disagree with regulations that outlaw smoking. I am not a racist (racists make me sick to my stomach) but I STRONGLY disagree with outlawing the KKK. Just my way of seeing things!

I do see where you are coming from though, and respect your opinion! :D

Ralph

02-04-2003, 05:41 PM

ok maybe i exagurated about the suicide thing but atleast 4, and all of em do drugs.

2 of my friends went to a catholic school

one was smart as **** and the other one a dumb blonde, they both ended up in the same Honors advanced clasees, and te blond isnt smart at all... and guess where they wanna go now? Mahwah high school....

flyin#5

02-04-2003, 05:42 PM

i agree with ericb on just about every one of his posts i read. i dont know if someone said this already cuz i dont have a ton of time to read all these yet but religion was made by the government of a middle eastern culture that wanted to give ppl something to look forward too. belive what you want but i think its just a government plan to get ppl not to go crazy and its stuck around. i mean if religion didnt exist then what would everyone do? i mean your going to live your life you might as well do what you want. everyone would say screw the goverment and do whatever they wanted. religion keeps us together as a country but to me its all a big hoax. i look at the suicide bombers that think there doing that for there country and say "its sure going to suck when they dont see god and did that for nothing" i see why you would want religion just for something to look forward to when you die but i dont belive in things that i cant see or have any proof of. kind of like the new honda!:blah lol all jmo belive what you want and im not trying to change the way anyone thinks but thats how i see it. live everyday like it is your last.

toby400ex

02-04-2003, 05:43 PM

with all of this evolution vs creation talk there is also the alien thing, why couldnt we be aliens from another planet or something, this is all way to complicated to talk about right now.:confused2

TC17

02-04-2003, 05:43 PM

every school is different. there are around 5 catholic schools in the area.

my public school didn't prepare me for catholic school. i had a hard time last year i almost failed. this year i get all A's and B's. ocansionally a C.

Ben

02-04-2003, 05:44 PM

Tommy, the exact opposite was true in my area. The big public schools recruited all the great athletes from the area private schools. My school didn't have a football team, and we sucked at pretty much every sport except one or two ;) So I wouldn't say that all, or even most, Catholic schools recruit! :D

Derek

02-04-2003, 05:45 PM

like one of the smartest men once said: "I may disagree with what you say, but i will fight to the death for you to say it."

Ben

02-04-2003, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by toby400ex
with all of this evolution vs creation talk there is also the alien thing, why couldnt we be aliens from another planet or something, this is all way to complicated to talk about right now.:confused2

hahahaha - woh, you are starting to freak me out!! :D

02-04-2003, 05:47 PM

I went to 12 years of catholic schools and I typed up a ton of crap in here,,but went back and deleted it..i'll leave it at this...

Tommy 17

02-04-2003, 05:48 PM

Ben my g.f goes to BC on a full softball scholarship... they pay her 2500$ a year to go there...:eek:

and no offense to her but shes about 2 years behind me... shes wants to go to my school bad but her rents won't let her bc of the scholarship and the fact that a college will see her faster there... bc they know they recruit the best players...

Ralph

02-04-2003, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by 2003TRX250EX
every school is different. there are around 5 catholic schools in the area.

my public school didn't prepare me for catholic school. i had a hard time last year i almost failed. this year i get all A's and B's. ocansionally a C.

well no offense but maybe u just arent the smartest fellow around(NO OFFENSE) you could be like some of my friends you study your arses off and do good in school, i myself never study and not eaven for midterms and do better that kids who studuied alot. it is all about how u learn and hoiw good u pick things up. i am ery good and using the vocab that i know to findout what out what other words mean(prefixes and ****) and i also learn by just listening, i dont take notes i just listen. and MHS(my school) has almost as good of a gradution record and that is without picking out all the bad kids that dont do **** like public schools do. the only reason 99% of public school students graduate is cause u have to wanna do good in school to get it, or have alot of money.

batgeek

02-04-2003, 05:51 PM

i know two things for sure about Catholic schools, or at least the ones around where i grew up...

1) they sucked at sports
2) the chicks were "freaky" :D if ya know what i mean

Ben

02-04-2003, 05:51 PM

Rico - leave it at what? LOL :blah

Tommy - Sounds like your girlfriend must be a great softball player! Just realize that most Catholic schools are not like that. There is a HUGE rich public school in my area that sounds exactly like the BC school you are talking about.

Ralph

02-04-2003, 05:52 PM

MY SCHOOL HAS PROOF THAT RECENTLY COLEDGES HAVE BEEN LOOKING MORE AT OUT SCHOOL THAN THE HIGHLY COMPETETIVE "DON BOSCO":rolleyes: . AND TOMMY IS RIGHT, ALL THOSE PRIVATE SCHOOLS JUST RECRUIT PLAYERS...

AND ALMOST ALL OF THIS YEARS SENIORS ARE GETTING SOME KIND OF SCHOLARSHIP....i will stop yelling now:blah

btw, i just grooved my tires with a ****ty little knife and have no feeling in my hands so dont mine my bad spelling...

Ben

02-04-2003, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
well no offense but maybe u just arent the smartest fellow around(NO OFFENSE) you could be like some of my friends you study your arses off and do good in school, i myself never study and not eaven for midterms and do better that kids who studuied alot. it is all about how u learn and hoiw good u pick things up. i am ery good and using the vocab that i know to findout what out what other words mean(prefixes and ****) and i also learn by just listening, i dont take notes i just listen. and MHS(my school) has almost as good of a gradution record and that is without picking out all the bad kids that dont do **** like public schools do. the only reason 99% of public school students graduate is cause u have to wanna do good in school to get it, or have alot of money.

No need to get personal man! My best friend wasn't the smartest guy in the world by any stretch of the imagination. He went to my Catholic school and got a GREAT education. He was at the bottom of our class but still was better educated than all but my very smartest public school friends. My best friend was forced to work hard in the Catholic school, he always says that had he gone to a public school he would be nowhere right now. His parents were poor and spent a great deal of their money on his education, and they feel it was the best money they ever spent. I agree that a highly motivated student can get a great education at most any school (even pathetic schools - be they private or public). Most kids, however, are not highly motivated (I was far from it) and need the discipline that most public schools are not offering right now. Like I said above several times, I look forward to a day when the public schools are so great that they run the private schools out of business!! :D

Ben

02-04-2003, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
[B]MY SCHOOL HAS PROOF THAT RECENTLY COLEDGES HAVE BEEN LOOKING MORE AT OUT SCHOOL THAN THE HIGHLY COMPETETIVE "DON BOSCO":rolleyes: . AND TOMMY IS RIGHT, ALL THOSE PRIVATE SCHOOLS JUST RECRUIT PLAYERS...

Tell that to my old high school's crappy athetlic department. :rolleyes:

EricB

02-04-2003, 06:00 PM

i would just like to congradulate everyone who participated in this thread on keeping their cool! i meen i know that sonuds prooly pretty stupid and stuff. but it's grea to see a variety of ages discussing such a complex issue.

an ben i do agree, i just want my american rights i pay the taxes i get hasseld by the fuzz i follow most the laws. it's all i ask! then they have to go changing everything and trying to let the gorvernment have even more controll over the states. bleah to mcuh, i wanna move to alaska.

Ralph

02-04-2003, 06:01 PM

i guess there is a night/day differences in schools over where you live but here they are just wasting your money... look foward to hearing names like rob bulkema in the nfl, he came from mahwah, he didnt need to go to private school and there is many others that went and are going to rutgers and **** from our school( on scholarships)...

Ralph

02-04-2003, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by EricB
i would just like to congradulate everyone who participated in this thread on keeping their cool! i meen i know that sonuds prooly pretty stupid and stuff. but it's grea to see a variety of ages discussing such a complex issue.

an ben i do agree, i just want my american rights i pay the taxes i get hasseld by the fuzz i follow most the laws. it's all i ask! then they have to go changing everything and trying to let the gorvernment have even more controll over the states. bleah to mcuh, i wanna move to alaska.

yeah, now lets switch to a subject every1 loves

TAX RETURNS!!!

or those russian lesbian teens...:devious:

Derek

02-04-2003, 06:06 PM

great great thread........ opened my eyes into what i really believed in.

Ben

02-04-2003, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
yeah, now lets switch to a subject every1 loves

TAX RETURNS!!!

or those russian lesbian teens...:devious:

Here here, finally something we can all agree on!!! :D :D

KrazyKid300ex

02-04-2003, 06:11 PM

catholic but no catholic scool

Ralph

02-04-2003, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by Ben
Here here, finally something we can all agree on!!! :D :D

oh my ben,

those chicks are HOT:uhoh:

muff

02-04-2003, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
oh my ben,

those chicks are HOT:uhoh:

lol yes they are

EricB

02-04-2003, 06:24 PM

yeah all you gotta do is look out for all the skanky native chicks. i'm sure that if you ask jim nice enough he'll tell you about them lol.

cjpoole1

02-04-2003, 07:24 PM

I consider myself Atheist. I also believe to each his own and have no problem with anyones beliefs. I would like to post some interesting info on the subject though.

" Surveys reported in the September 1999 issue of Scientific American point out, for example, that the members of the elite National Academy of Sciences are fully 95% atheist. The NAS represents the best and brightest of scientific minds in America. It is also quite clear from other surveys mentioned in this article that even the general population of scientists are much less likely to believe in any god (Christian or otherwise) than the general population."

Also check this link www.visi.com/~markg/atheists.html for a huge list of historic people who were atheist and this link www.celebatheists.com for curent well known people who are atheist. I'm not trying to make anybody mad or start any arguments, just thought I would post some interesting info

:)

quadridermx

02-04-2003, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by flyin_400EX
i agree with ericb on just about every one of his posts i read. i dont know if someone said this already cuz i dont have a ton of time to read all these yet but religion was made by the government of a middle eastern culture that wanted to give ppl something to look forward too. belive what you want but i think its just a government plan to get ppl not to go crazy and its stuck around. i mean if religion didnt exist then what would everyone do? i mean your going to live your life you might as well do what you want. everyone would say screw the goverment and do whatever they wanted. religion keeps us together as a country but to me its all a big hoax. i look at the suicide bombers that think there doing that for there country and say "its sure going to suck when they dont see god and did that for nothing" i see why you would want religion just for something to look forward to when you die but i dont belive in things that i cant see or have any proof of. kind of like the new honda!:blah lol all jmo belive what you want and im not trying to change the way anyone thinks but thats how i see it. live everyday like it is your last.

Religion came from a middle eastern government to keep the people sane? Ive never heard that before...

Religion goes all the way back to Adam and Eve... if you think about it, they had a close relationship with god, and whatever they believed would have been the only true religion. So why do we have thousands of religions today? Because some people didnt like what others were teaching, even though it may have been right, so they made up their own ideas and beliefs and got people to follow them.

So in reality, for those who believe in religion and the bible, there really is only one true religion... the one that adam and eve had.

But, that true religion is for each of us to decide... if you want a religion, there's only one way to find it, by examining the religions and deciding on which one follows the bible more closely. If you believe in the bible, god says who his people are, and how they would be identified.

Great thread though... its nice to talk about more than just pistons and cams, lol.

Dune Surfer

02-04-2003, 09:00 PM

Bad Religion:devil

Ralph

02-04-2003, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by quadridermx
Religion came from a middle eastern government to keep the people sane? Ive never heard that before...

Religion goes all the way back to Adam and Eve... if you think about it, they had a close relationship with god, and whatever they believed would have been the only true religion. So why do we have thousands of religions today? Because some people didnt like what others were teaching, even though it may have been right, so they made up their own ideas and beliefs and got people to follow them.

So in reality, for those who believe in religion and the bible, there really is only one true religion... the one that adam and eve had.

But, that true religion is for each of us to decide... if you want a religion, there's only one way to find it, by examining the religions and deciding on which one follows the bible more closely. If you believe in the bible, god says who his people are, and how they would be identified.

Great thread though... its nice to talk about more than just pistons and cams, lol.

and that my friend is why mormans cant drink ice tea, cause god had something against iced tea:rolleyes:

EricB

02-05-2003, 12:51 AM

just another famous mind voiceing his thoughts on religion...i know this is over but it's a perfect example hehe. goes with the 95% of NAS doesn't belive in religion.

sigmund freud.

"Freud certainly regarded belief in God as an illusion that mature men and women should lay aside. The idea of God was not a lie but a device of the unconscious which needed to be decoded by psychology. A personal god was nothing more than an exalted father-figure: desire for such a deity sprang from infantile yearnings for a powerful, protective father, for justice and fairness and for life to go on forever. God is simply a projection of these desires, feared and worshipped by human beings out of an abiding sense of helplessness. Religion belonged to the infancy of the human race; it had been a necessary stage in the transition from childhood to maturity. It had promoted ethical values which were essential to society. Now that humanity had come of age, however, it should be left behind. [A History of God]"

spincr4hire

02-05-2003, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by MichaelS693
to the other church of christ guys....what is the difference in yalls religion and baptist?

We'll, I grew up in the Church of Christ, but don't go much anymore. I think the major differences are the music, no music in the church of Christ. They believe that all religions that use music in services are deemed to he!!. They also thought since I got a divorce, that I was damned to a life of being single. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Most churches of Christ think that their denominations are the only ones that are 'right with God'...everyone else is wrong.

Loeryder

02-05-2003, 11:08 AM

The bible???

hahahahahahaha

The bible is a STORYBOOK about people who lived a long time ago.
Some of the stories are complete FICTION!
Some of the strories were written by what we would consider drug addicts today.
Men who ate plants and berries to expand their minds. Today we call that psychadelic and its very illegal.

Then take one more step back and realize the bible was written in hebrew so many years ago the languages "evolved" per say and when it was finally transalated into english there was no straight translation. They had to make up half of it since it was unreadable. Why not throw a few commandments ot testaments in to keep it believeable and intstill new principles they wanted to govern their people by.

The bible you all read today is not the way it was written.
It is an account into history as much as time magazine, readers digest, even a classroom textbook probably has more true information in it.

organized religion = primitive government in my book.

You'd be better off saying aliens came here and developed our species as an experiment in slavery...

God is a different story. Inside each person lives a god that directs them to behave a certain way and strive for certain things. If you let a church be your god the preacher/priest/minister/ringleader will tell you how to act and also tell you if you don't donate cash money to the church you will go to ****.

Regulator 250X

02-05-2003, 11:36 AM

spincr4hire, I am not sure if the Church of Christ and the United Church of Christ are the same, but if they are the beliefs about the music would be false. I attend the UCC and they always have music, heck even once a month we have a contemporary service which is focused around music. Thats all i really have to say about that.

The evolution vs creationism is all opinions. I think both are fairly accurate. i am not set in my christian ways and no one should be. My life is my life and i will believe parts of the good book and argue with other parts. I still have faith. although i still have interest in evolution cuz science is what the world depends on. Not religion.

4punkswife

02-05-2003, 12:02 PM

Picture this...

You are sitting home.. watching tv.. its dark out.. its storming.. the power flickers on and off.. thunder.. lightening.. then .. a warning comes across your tv screen.. and says.. tornado headed your way.. within 3 minutes.. take shelter...

do you.. go take shelter.. and **** your pants.. when its over.. then you come out and thank yourself.. youre still alive?

do you.. open up your front door and laugh at the storm and wait for the tornado to eat you up?

do you go take shelter.. pray to God to keep you safe.. and when it's over.. thank God for keeping you, your friends, and your loved ones safe?

.. I fit in to choice c.... I do sin daily.. and repent for it, I attend a United Methodist Church weekly and pray to God daily.. I pray for peace everywhere.. and I pray for the choice a and choice b people to have faith and believe as I do, *including my husband*.. as I know he would fit into the other choice categories..

My point I guess is, I think I will try and stay on the right path.. and have faith and believe, because I would surely hate to end up "eaten by the storm" .. if you don't understand my post.. maybe you need to ask God to help you understand... Better to be saved than sorry!

It's like.. either you get it .. or you don't! Black and White!

:) Kristie

MSL

02-05-2003, 12:08 PM

I agree with 4punckswife completely.

i believe and have faith in God. the way i see it is if i am wrong then we all suffer the same fate anyway but if i am right then i get to enjoy eternity in heaven. Those that choose not to believe
i will pray for you..

UglyMotha™

02-05-2003, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by MSL
I agree with 4punckswife completely.

i believe and have faith in God. the way i see it is if i am wrong then we all suffer the same fate anyway but if i am right then i get to enjoy eternity in heaven. Those that choose not to believe
i will pray for you..

i completly agree with you, couldn't of said it any better

400exdad

02-05-2003, 12:26 PM

I am a Christian. Baptist. I think. You see, I am still looking for the right church to worship God at. However, I can tell you that I do believe in God and pray to him often. I use to say that I was lucky. Family, friends, work, and of course, material things. Now, I know I am Blessed.

I went through a period of time, where I doubted the existance of God, then I realized that: Things just happened at the right time, when I needed them, to prove there was a God. I could go into it, but you would get tired of reading it.... that is if anyone has gotten to post #947 :D in this thread. Anyway, from major things like finding the right house, at the right time, at the right price, to miss-sent e-mails that had the answers to the questions that I was asking on that day regarding God and my beliefs. Questions nobody knew I was asking.... but me.... well, evidently with the exception of God.

honda350r

02-05-2003, 12:26 PM

You can thank God all you want? Where was God when Hitler destroyed 6 Million Jews ??

This is a great pissing contest.... I think it is funny !

If there was no such thing as God the goverment would have to make one up !! The Dollar say "IN GOD WE TRUST" I guess they did make it up !

It is really no big deal !

I live by the Golden rule..... Do on to others as you would have done on to you!! Or something like that !

Jim

MichaelS693

02-05-2003, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by spincr4hire
We'll, I grew up in the Church of Christ, but don't go much anymore. I think the major differences are the music, no music in the church of Christ. They believe that all religions that use music in services are deemed to he!!. They also thought since I got a divorce, that I was damned to a life of being single. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Most churches of Christ think that their denominations are the only ones that are 'right with God'...everyone else is wrong.

yeah we dont use musical intruments either.... my uncle and a few others are divorced and people think its wrong but no one pays them attention...... yeah some people in our church think that since you are not Church of Christ that you are goin to heII...... i just dont get people sometimes

MichaelS693

02-05-2003, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by toby400ex
there is also the alien thing, why couldnt we be aliens from another planet or something, this is all way to complicated to talk about right now.:confused2

we are to the other beings in the universe..... yes i do believe in other life form

250EXstud

02-05-2003, 01:12 PM

Hey guess i am a Christian. I go to a Baptist church. If you are not a Christian or know Jesus i highly advice you to be.

JEsus saves

Derek

02-05-2003, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by 250EXstud

JEsus saves
definatly

sportraxrider10

02-05-2003, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Loeryder
The bible???

hahahahahahaha

The bible is a STORYBOOK about people who lived a long time ago.
Some of the stories are complete FICTION!

proof?

and i am also a catholic.

Derek

02-05-2003, 01:35 PM

Loeryder is just a new member making a complete ***** of himself.
:o

4punkswife

02-05-2003, 01:43 PM

hmm
You can thank God all you want? Where was God when Hitler destroyed 6 Million Jews ??
---- and where do you think hitlers soul went when he died?
---- oh.. if you don't believe in God.. then nowhere (****)
ummm.. and I guess your choice was B.. which hey.. thats fine with me.. yes.. 2 each their own.. and along with the golden rule, is the what goes around comes around.. 10 fold
oh well,
oh.. my answer to the posters question should have been...
United Methodist
Hmm.. and like the government.. and the dollar thing..
How come when all you fine men go to sporting events.. we sing..
God Bless America... etc.. ? I like having faith and hope .. you might wanna try it.. it can't possibly hurt you?! :rolleyes:
To all the posters on the board who know Jesus.. and believe in him.. ;)
Amen

R-Crazy

02-05-2003, 01:45 PM

hehe, im jewish, one of the few, but everything is cool. whatever you want to be, you can be.

dave

mreiser21

02-05-2003, 02:21 PM

methodist and proud of it:D

660bigdaddy

02-05-2003, 02:24 PM

born again, bible believing christian... raising my kids the same. not easy these days...:)

QuAdRaCeR244

02-05-2003, 02:29 PM

Whoa, this post has gotten really big really fast.:)

TC17

02-05-2003, 02:32 PM

there is 1822 views and 188 posts. this is a very interesting post.

QuAdRaCeR244

02-05-2003, 02:34 PM

yeah it is, i am surprised of how fast it grew:rolleyes:

250EXstud

02-05-2003, 02:41 PM

This is making sad looking at all the non beleivers on this sight. God has a plan for you life and can use you. It takes faith. I any one wants reading material or what to talk abou this please PM me this is very important.

Go christian! See you all in heaven!

Loeryder

02-05-2003, 02:43 PM

proof?

Where's the proof it's 100% true???
Never asked the preacher for that did ya?

Loeryder is just a new member making a complete ***** of himself.

Thats an awfully opinionated statement for an open topic post.
You obviously have no clue what you are talking about.
You must be one of those people who thinks anyone who disagrees with you is wrong too.

Ralph

02-05-2003, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by 250EXstud
This is making sad looking at all the non beleivers on this sight. God has a plan for you life and can use you. It takes faith. I any one wants reading material or what to talk abou this please PM me this is very important.

Go christian! See you all in heaven!

yeah, i have a bible my old g/f gave me as my ****ing crismas present, i was like, wtf is this? shes like the book of the lord... i was like, **** this im getting out of here,

she gavce bibles to all her friends,,, so if any1 wants a bible, or wants to keep a bible from being burnt, u pay shipping and its yours...

Ralph

02-05-2003, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by 660bigdaddy
raising my kids the same. not easy these days...:)

cause kids are getting smarter these days:p

250EXstud

02-05-2003, 02:51 PM

No i am willing to listen to what ever and talk to you about it. I have been going to a Christian school and church all my life so i can back it up. But you got to be willing to listen too. Its all in the Bible . To believe God is there it takes faith. You just have to believe. Man i don't know where i would be in live with out Him. He truely helps me everyday.

MichaelS693

02-05-2003, 02:58 PM

like the little kid on The Santa Clause...... "Have You ever seen a million dollars?" (No)..... Well Just because you cant see it doesnt mean it doesnt exist.....the same with Jesus..... Just because you cant see him doesnt mean he dont exist

Ralph

02-05-2003, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by MichaelS693
like the little kid on The Santa Clause...... "Have You ever seen a million dollars?" (No)..... Well Just because you cant see it doesnt mean it doesnt exist.....the same with Jesus..... Just because you cant see him doesnt mean he dont exist
yeah, and just because u havent seen santa doesnt meen he doesnt exist

02-05-2003, 03:16 PM

I was baptized a Catholic, but I don't beleive in anything have haven't gone to church or ccd in like 3 years.

Ralph

02-05-2003, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by hondafox400
I was baptized a Catholic, but I don't beleive in anything have haven't gone to church or ccd in like 3 years.

i had a communion, but back then i was too little to resist the brainwashing...

trx400ex

02-05-2003, 03:41 PM

Dude lrd you need to take it easy...i dont think your going to convince anyone to leave their religion and play outside with you. And i bet you dont have a girlfriend anymore huh? Talking about burning a bible is pretty dumb. if you dont beleive in it, then you wouldnt read it, the only reason i could see someone burning one is if they believe in the devil or something. maybe youve been brainwashed by all the non beleivers

i just see youve been posting alot, if you dont beleive then why are you wasting all your precious time on earth replying?

Brad

02-05-2003, 03:43 PM

im a letsallgetdrunkist its been my religeon since i was 5

Brad

02-05-2003, 03:44 PM

fine... catholic

Ralph

02-05-2003, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by trx400ex
Dude lrd you need to take it easy...i dont think your going to convince anyone to leave their religion and play outside with you. And i bet you dont have a girlfriend anymore huh? Talking about burning a bible is pretty dumb. if you dont beleive in it, then you wouldnt read it, the only reason i could see someone burning one is if they believe in the devil or something. maybe youve been brainwashed by all the non beleivers

i just see youve been posting alot, if you dont beleive then why are you wasting all your precious time on earth replying?

sry if i afended you by saying save it from being burnt, i wouldnt waste my time with that. and about my ex, im glad im not going out with her anymore, SHE IS A PHSYCO. her mom stalks my best friend, she makes people go to church with her and church camp, and if u said u didnt wanna go her mom would just come to your house and pick me up. SHE IS CRAZY, her mom asked me if i had problems with ******s. and those are her exact words. she yells at my jewish friends for being jewish. maybe thats why i hate religion. CAUSE PEOPLE ARE F-ING CRAZY!!!

Guy400

02-05-2003, 03:48 PM

I'm a Christian, I read the Bible, I say my prayers and I go to church every Sunday. I don't find it to be a huge intrusion upon my daily life, in fact, I think it helps. I give my 10% faithfully and notice that ever since I've started titheing regularly that my financial situation has improved. I easily make well over 1 car payment a month worth of tithe to the church and it's money that I give happily. To make an overly simplistic look on religion here's something I always ask people when this debate comes up.

If I live my life believing and going to church and I die and find out there is no god what have I lost? Only a couple hours every Sunday morning. If I live my life not believing and die only to find out there IS a God what have I lost? Eternity. Which one would you rather gamble? Two hours every Sunday morning or your eternity? Me personally, I'll gladly give up the time on Sunday's.

TC17

02-05-2003, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by Guy400

If I live my life believing and going to church and I die and find out there is no god what have I lost? Only a couple hours every Sunday morning. If I live my life not believing and die only to find out there IS a God what have I lost? Eternity. Which one would you rather gamble? Two hours every Sunday morning or your eternity? Me personally, I'll gladly give up the time on Sunday's.

good point! :) it also doesn't hurt to give money to the church. my church gives half of what they get and give it to the people in Hati if you know where that is. they have aided them with food, clothes, power generator, and all kind of necessities(sp?) we take for granted, everyday things. it feels good to give money to people who need it the most.

honda400exrider

02-05-2003, 04:11 PM

my familys christian but i have some difficulty believing, but i want to, its just that its hard...

Ralph

02-05-2003, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by Guy400
I'm a Christian, I read the Bible, I say my prayers and I go to church every Sunday. I don't find it to be a huge intrusion upon my daily life, in fact, I think it helps. I give my 10% faithfully and notice that ever since I've started titheing regularly that my financial situation has improved. I easily make well over 1 car payment a month worth of tithe to the church and it's money that I give happily. To make an overly simplistic look on religion here's something I always ask people when this debate comes up.

If I live my life believing and going to church and I die and find out there is no god what have I lost? Only a couple hours every Sunday morning. If I live my life not believing and die only to find out there IS a God what have I lost? Eternity. Which one would you rather gamble? Two hours every Sunday morning or your eternity? Me personally, I'll gladly give up the time on Sunday's.

im glad you feel he has helped you out. but that crazy ***'s girls dad just got diagnosed with a brain tumor.. i dont think shees done anything wrong

3x440ex

02-05-2003, 04:37 PM

face it guys.....we were put here by alliens.... evilution is crap....nothing from nothing leaves nothing, that's a scientific fact.....i believe in God, a superior power, but i don't think God needs a book to tell us how to live.

bluebaron

02-05-2003, 05:50 PM

lutheren(sp)

MichaelS693

02-05-2003, 05:55 PM

3 posts?:huh

bluebaron

02-05-2003, 05:56 PM

sorry about that ill delet them

02-05-2003, 06:06 PM

sry if i afended you by saying save it from being burnt, i wouldnt waste my time with that. and about my ex, im glad im not going out with her anymore, SHE IS A PHSYCO. her mom stalks my best friend, she makes people go to church with her and church camp, and if u said u didnt wanna go her mom would just come to your house and pick me up. SHE IS CRAZY, her mom asked me if i had problems with ******s. and those are her exact words. she yells at my jewish friends for being jewish. maybe thats why i hate religion. CAUSE PEOPLE ARE F-ING CRAZY!!!

I call those people GodHippies or GodNazis.. lol

Quad18star

02-05-2003, 06:21 PM

Catholic here . I believe in God and an after life . I dont go to church every Sunday or say a prayer everyday but I don't think I would be punished for that once my time comes . I think God would judge you more on the way you affected people rather than if you said your roserie everyday . I don't judge other people for their religion , if they choose to believe in something other than I do , it's not a big problem . To each their own .

user101

02-05-2003, 06:39 PM

i am with Quad18star 99%
except im a Baptist.

sportraxrider10

02-05-2003, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
im glad you feel he has helped you out. but that crazy ***'s girls dad just got diagnosed with a brain tumor.. i dont think shees done anything wrong

yes but when the lord needs you he will get you. everything happens for a reason. ;)

Ralph

02-05-2003, 07:25 PM

if god was real, and so damn powerfull, why doesnt he just make every belive in him?

sportraxrider10

02-05-2003, 07:30 PM

he doesn't force people to believe in him, if you believe in him, great

Leo

02-05-2003, 07:33 PM

"god, please save me from your followers"

pretty much sums it up for me.

:huh

Leo

Ralph

02-05-2003, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by honda300ex06
he doesn't force people to believe in him, if you believe in him, great

lol, when did he tell you this? last time he came to visit?

DirtDiggler

02-05-2003, 07:36 PM

I don't believe in anything. I'm not trying to offend it just doesn't make sense to me.

Evolution has holes in it as well but now it's believed that evolution happens in leaps in bounds not gradually. It happens in genetic spikes and branch offs.

regardless I tried to believe in God for a long time and I just can't. Besides if I pretend I believe and God is real wouldn't he know that anyways?

The way I see it if there is a God and he bases it on whether or not you believe in him that seems sort of arrogant to me. Shouldn't it be based on how good of a person you are especially for your friends/family?

got to run I don't want to offend just stating my feelings.

toby400ex

02-05-2003, 07:40 PM

well uh, all i got too say is that we could be aliens, think about it. Aliens find a planet live there for a while then destroy it with polution or whatever then find another one, right now us aliens are lookin at mars or something.:D

DirtDiggler

02-05-2003, 07:52 PM

The fact that we share 97% of our DNA with a certain species of monkey speaks volumes for evolution as well. The alien theory is a possibility though we still haven't figured out how the egyptians moved those massive stones that they weren't supposed to have the technology to move.

I also don't think the fossil record alone will solve the debate we have many unsolved mysteries floating around today like murders and other crimes that we can't solve and most of the people involved are still around as well as much of the evidance.

quadridermx

02-05-2003, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
if god was real, and so damn powerfull, why doesnt he just make every belive in him?

It's called free will... god does not interfere with people's decisions on the earth.

Satan challenged God's sovereignty saying that humans dont need god, and that humans know what's good and bad and that humans dont need to follow any kind of rules. God allows bad things to happen to prove to Satan, and prove to humankind that we need to be close to him, and that human governments probably wont ever be able to cure death, cure sickness, or even get rid of hate.

When adam and eve originally sinned, they alienated themselves from god and became sinners. Look at where this world has gone to without god. It went from a perfect garden with perfect people to what it is now... with all the crazy people not knowing what to do with their lives. Hitler? That's free will. Jesus told his apostles to expect to be persecuted for believing, because Satan is doing everything he can to make people forget about god and doubt he ever existed. After all these years, he's done a mighty good job.

And whoever it was that said religion is just a government idea... that's a bunch of baloney. There are tribes in Africa and Eskimos in Alaska, and isolated people all around the world that, up until 200 years ago, never even knew about organized government, or even the bible, but yet had a need for religion in their daily lives.

Again, I realize im not gonna change any beliefs, but like most everyone here has been saying, you gotta really look at what you're saying and examine it more closely.

02-05-2003, 07:55 PM

methodist

DirtDiggler

02-05-2003, 07:58 PM

A lot of tribes don't have government as we know it but they have leaders and rules many of which are designed around religion.

quadridermx

02-05-2003, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by DirtDiggler

Evolution has holes in it as well but now it's believed that evolution happens in leaps in bounds not gradually. It happens in genetic spikes and branch offs.

Everyone that believes in evolution and that states evolution is proven scientifically must have totally ignored my first post.

The idea of extremely slow evolution (not natural selection or survival of the fittest among the animal world) is ridiculous and even most of the scientific community has moved past the idea of gradual evolution.

The idea of evolution making cycles is more current, but can still be disproved scientifically very easily. But im sure no one wants me to post another long essay on that...

As a matter of fact, the man that came up with the whole idea of evolution (Charles Darwin in "Evolution of the Species if you want to look it up yourself) himself states that evolution is just a human guess. He says right in the foreword of the book that this theory is "not meant to replace god, or the idea of a more powerful being." He himself believed in a creator.

Everyone is saying that science proves evolution, and that we should listen to the facts from science... but my point is that there ARE NO facts that prove evolution, that in themselves, can't be disproved by science! Some need to examine the "facts" and decipher the difference between those facts, and human theory.

quadridermx

02-05-2003, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by DirtDiggler
A lot of tribes don't have government as we know it but they have leaders and rules many of which are designed around religion.

So every one of the leaders of all the hundreds of different tribes, that never came into contact with any other governments until a couple hundred years ago, also came up with this idea of religion so that their people's lives would have meaning, and so they wouldnt go crazy?

Derek

02-05-2003, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
lol, when did he tell you this? last time he came to visit?

I had a nice long convo with him last night.

Ralph

02-05-2003, 08:08 PM

ok god is real, and when there is lighting outside zeus is throwing thunderbolts at you, and i know its true cause it was in a book.

and when ships disapear and not return home its becaue a big sea monster called scylla is eating them, and i know its true cause it was in a book.

and jesus christ is real, and i know its true cause it was in a book.

and harry potter flies on a broom stick and owns a flying car, and i know its true cause it was in a book.

And darth vader uses a thing called the force, and i know its true cause it was in a book.

Glamis400ex

02-05-2003, 08:09 PM

Ok, tell me if ya heard this one...

A child molester, a drunk and a homo-sexual walk into a bar...oh wait a minute, that was just the 1st priest...Can you dig it SUCKA?

Glamis

DirtDiggler

02-05-2003, 08:11 PM

I agree there are holes in the evolution theory. But there are also holes in the religion theory. I believe you can proove fairly well that the people in the bible existed but beyond that the "magic" and "invisible man that lives up in the sky" part are a little tougher to proove.

In the end the only thing I'm sure of is that without humans trying to bend religion to their needs. ( some say got is forgiving others say he's angry. Religion used to believe in reincarnation but when that didn't work they came up with ****.)

Religion provides a good set of standards to live your life by as well as letting you learn lessons from the stories without having to learn them the hard way.

For me it just doesn't work no matter how hard I try but if it helps lend stability and hope to the lives of others I'm happy for them.

Derek

02-05-2003, 08:11 PM

its a never ending cricle. One person says something and others say another thing......the bring the same things up over and over

quadridermx

02-05-2003, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
ok god is real, and when there is lighting outside zeus is throwing thunderbolts at you, and i know its true cause it was in a book.

and when ships disapear and not return home its becaue a big sea monster called scylla is eating them, and i know its true cause it was in a book.

and jesus christ is real, and i know its true cause it was in a book.

and harry potter flies on a broom stick and owns a flying car, and i know its true cause it was in a book.

And darth vader uses a thing called the force, and i know its true cause it was in a book.

Electricity is real because it was in a book?

Gravity is real because it was in a book?

The wind is real because it was in a book?

The Bible is historically accurate... all those "stories", all those prophecies in the bible are recorded in secular history.

The bible was written over a thousand years ago, and that can be proven. Every prophecy in the bible have come true, and happened exactly as they were told they would... that's just "stories"?

Pretty amazing stories if you ask me. You obviously have never looked into anything else in the bible besides what you call the fairytales. The reason so many people believe in the bible is not because of the major stories of people, but because of the incredible detail, and all the small stuff that happened just as the bible said they would. The bible is not just a book of fairytales and stories, it is much more than that.

DirtDiggler

02-05-2003, 08:19 PM

History repeats it self over and over again especially wars and disasters I think it is possible to make a prediction and leave it just vague enough to apply it to what ever you want.

I'm not sure about this and if I'm wrong I apologize but didn't some one say that the bible predicted the end of the world or armaggedon in the year 2000? I'm not sure but I remember there being a big deal about this and nothing happened.

MeatHead

02-05-2003, 08:21 PM

Normally I would stay out of this sort of thread, but...

"There is scientific evidence that the human soul has weight. In 1907 Dr. Duncan MacDougall placed dying patients on a very sensitive scale just before they died. At the point of death there was an immediate weight loss of from 3/8 to 1 1/2 ounces. He did this experiment on six people. Of the six bodies there were four that showed this weight loss. He also tried the experiment on fifteen dogs, and not one of them changed weight at the point of death." - anonymous

So if a soul exists, it is quite easy to jump to the next step and say that god exists.

BTW, I am Catholic, not that it really matters. I ride a quad, and try to live a good life. The two important things in life.

But I still don't see what is wrong with saying that god exists, AND we are evolving. I don't think we evolved from single cell life, but we are evolving.

4punkswife

02-05-2003, 08:24 PM

too bad for those who chose not to seek knowledge of it. For those who have tried to know Jesus.. I do know it is hard to trust in him and follow his ways.. like Billy Joel sang.. it's easier to laugh with the sinners and cry with the saints or whatever...
and yes.. I think science has proven alot of the prophicies in the Bible as quadridermx wrote.. .. such as Moses and the seperation of the sea.. it did happen. etc..
Like I said earlier.. I think its better to know Jesus then to not know .. oh.. and another thing.. it's not just knowing him.. and knowing of him.. one must ask Him into their heart/life.. and you will actually "feel" his presence.. and I tell you .. (my own witness).. when I am.. sad, alone, scared etc.. I (sounds corny).. laugh if you like.. ask him to show his presence to me or whatever.. and I swear I can feel it.. a warm feeling..
Ok.. someone is really gonna kick me off the board now, but I don't care!
Those who acknowledge me before men, I will acknowledge them before thy Father in Heaven ~ Jesus
Amen:D

quadridermx

02-05-2003, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by DirtDiggler

In the end the only thing I'm sure of is that without humans trying to bend religion to their needs. ( some say got is forgiving others say he's angry. Religion used to believe in reincarnation but when that didn't work they came up with ****.)

I agree with you on that one... humans have become so imperfect in their thoughts, that some religion is only out of greed and power.

And I think many people do not believe in religion because of this, and that's sad that people in powerful positions will take advantage of the people that listen to them because of greed.

Personally, I believe religion should not be greedy and that it should be upbuilding and help an individual to lead a better life, and become closer with the creator. That's obviously my opinion though, i know many disagree. Religion should not be burdensome depressing.

The church I go to does not ask for any donations AT ALL. If an individual wants to donate money, then that money is accepted and put into the work of building more places of worship for other people, and printing more bibles for other people to read.

I understand your point on this one... most religion has turned greedy and dishonest. But that's why we need to examine ALL the options instead of forgetting about god because someone is trying to take advantage of us.

Well im sure you all are getting sick of me, so this will be my last post unless someone asks a question pertaining to me or something i said.

forum

02-05-2003, 08:27 PM

detail no. The prophcies in spirtual books are so vage it could mean anything.

lil400exman

02-05-2003, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by forum
detail no. The prophcies in spirtual books are so vage it could mean anything.
vague they are but you need to read them and meditate and think what they really mean and then you can see what they mean..........pm for info

user101

02-05-2003, 08:36 PM

to each his own

this thread has grown.:chinese:

02-05-2003, 08:36 PM

dont u guys get tired of talking about this? just seems kinda boring

02 Red Rider

02-05-2003, 08:38 PM

This is a very complex and deep topic that WE ALL could spend the rest of our natural lives debating. Which might be good because then we could prove once and for all what we believe. One problem though, when the time comes we will only prove it to ourselves. There will not be any "See I told you" or "In your FACE!" My point is we should all believe in something but it is not our place to tell others what to believe in or to look down on someone for what they believe. We may stand at the Gates of Heaven, we may get beamed to the Mother Ship, we may be reincarnated as a butterfly, or we may just turn to dust in a box 6 feet under the Earth. Believe in what you need and believe in yourself, the rest will work itself out in the end.;)

Peace and Hair Grease!

Jason:D

quadridermx

02-05-2003, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by forum
detail no. The prophcies in spirtual books are so vage it could mean anything.

Man has only been around for around 6000 years... that has been proven. So this history repeating itself could not have happened. The bible starts in the beginning, and contains prophecies into our day. It does not just cover a couple wars or occurences, it covers our "history".

Prophecies vague? Isaiah 40:22... "There is the One dwelling above the circle of the earth." This was written around a thousand years before we actually figured out that the earth might just be round. Go figure...

Before it was proven, people believed the earth was on the back of a giant elephant.

The bible also says the earth was "hung upon nothing" and that it was not attatched to anything, but that it was in a way floating.

Humans up until the last 100 years had no way of proving this. But guess what, when the astronauts went into space, there was no elephant.

Would you like some more detailed accounts, or "stories" as some call them?

Derek

02-05-2003, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by freeride132
dont u guys get tired of talking about this? just seems kinda boring

its gonna go around and aorund cause everyone is stubbern and no one will listen to what everyone else has to say.

forum

02-05-2003, 08:41 PM

o yes. and someone said this before, I thought.EXACTLY! almost all wars are because of religiuos reasons. you tell me religion is the only way to have true peace and all this bull, makes me wanna puke!. Why do you think septemper 11 happend. although there were other reasons. religious conflict had alot to do with it. So now some of you may say. OO binladins religion is bad and it's pregidise.!!! whens the last time you saw a women in high order at your church! or even worse. women were held down for hundreds of years when the church had the power of law.! THey changed most of there sexist ways, after the womens movement because they knew people would grow to ignor any religious belief's because of the strong feeling of equal rights. The United states Claims to be the land of the free. and It is. even more so then Canada, but the united states also believes in strong feelings for god. The president has to be of certain religious background!. but yet that very religion in some ways goes against the decloration of human rights. (well they did back in the day) Im sure I will offend alot of people in this. And i am truly sorry. its my beliefs! just like you have yours. the only difernce is mine arn't told to me!( iknow no one is forced to believe in god thats not what i ment)

again sorry.