CR500 link on an ATC frame?

[troybilt]

Is this common has anybody tried it? Sorry if this is common knowledge... I'm asking for a buddy that wanted to convert his atc to 450r rear, and I was trying to talk him into a CR/CRF linkage style.

[emullen]

I have a pep cr link shock for sale if he needs one to go forward with the project

[troybilt]

Originally posted by emullen
I have a pep cr link shock for sale if he needs one to go forward with the project

What's the condition and setup? I might be interested mines PEP XC setup... vs. MX don't know what the difference is.

[Derrick Adams]

There are alot of obsticals to overcome to install a CR style linkage on an ATC. Just to name a few..

Most CR500 swingarms are going to be 88-89 length, so they'll be around an inch shorter than his stock ATC swinger.

CR500 shocks are at least two inchs longer than a stock ATC shock, which means he'll have to relocate his upper shock mount. This will also lead to seat pan clearance issues.

Most CR500 style swingers are going to be set up for 88-89 style frames, which means either rear motor mounts will need to be added to the ATC frame, or the swinger will have to be modified to fit the stock rear motor mount.

The lower linkage mount will have to be rebuilt to accept the CR500 linkage.

Now that all that is mentioned, I do remember seeing one on here. If memory serves me correctly it was in the build up of the Pro XC racer on here that build his 04 bike for us to see.

************************************************** **

The TRX450R swinger swap is much, much easier. I did it on my ATC with very few mods. Here are the key components needed:

06-up swinger, chain guides, axle carrier, rear brake stay, rear brake caliper, rear rotor assembly.
06-up front linkage
04-05 rear linkage

If he has an 86-up 250R axle it can be reused. If he has the 85 axle he'll need to upgrade to the 86-up or 400EX. He can also reuse the 250R axle lock nut assembly.

There are a couple small items that need to be fabricated. Mainly bushings and spacers for the linkage.

My rear carrier in my 85 ATC was wasted when I bought the bike. The new carrier was $150 + shipping. I decided to do the TRX swap and did it all for $200.

[Derrick Adams]

I stand corrected. It was a no-link set-up that he installed on the ATC.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=381413&perpage=10&pagenumber=9

[Black Sheep]

To this day I still laugh when I here people doing this 450R swap on ATC 250R's. I owned one for over 20 years, bought it new, rode it stock, built the motor, raced, I never once wanted a SHORTER swing arm. In fact the hot set up back in the day was to go longer. From +1 up to +2. A guy who races in the 3wheeler class i race in nowadays had a trx swing arm on his 250R. He eventually switched over to a +1 1/2 and loved it. He even said it turned better than the trx. The reason being it is more stable in the turns at speed. Yeah I get the aluminum bling factor but, at the expense of handling and strength?
Also, I'm not 100% positive but, I believe the 450 carrier is narrower than the 250R and if that is the case the sprocket alignment will be off.

[troybilt]

Originally posted by Black Sheep
To this day I still laugh when I here people doing this 450R swap on ATC 250R's. I owned one for over 20 years, bought it new, rode it stock, built the motor, raced, I never once wanted a SHORTER swing arm. In fact the hot set up back in the day was to go longer. From +1 up to +2. A guy who races in the 3wheeler class i race in nowadays had a trx swing arm on his 250R. He eventually switched over to a +1 1/2 and loved it. He even said it turned better than the trx. The reason being it is more stable in the turns at speed. Yeah I get the aluminum bling factor but, at the expense of handling and strength?
Also, I'm not 100% positive but, I believe the 450 carrier is narrower than the 250R and if that is the case the sprocket alignment will be off.

Trust me we've spent quite a bit of time on your website looking at TPC trike stuff. He really wants a 450r trike, but at the moment he is full build mode with badd@$$ long travel buggy, so building his 86 250r is all he can swing right now. We saw a couple of the TPC bikes at little Sahara back in April and he fell in love with those. He's always rode ATC's since we've been riding back in the late 80's.

I just bought a Laeger Narrow CR500 link frame and got us to thinking about a CR500 linkage ATC. I guess I've never seen one, didn't know if it would be worth and if someone has tried this before.

I searched on 3WWW earlier and didn't find anything either....

[deathman53]

I asked the guy who is building my atc450r about a cr500 link. He said it was nearly impossible with how the atc frame is. The top of the shock would be almost above the seat. The bottom linkages wouldn't be a problem. He said something similar to a no-link, about the shock would be very high and interfere with the seat, lets forget the things you have to do with the airbox, thats a whole another game. He's doing everything to use stock 450r stuff and other stock crf stuff. He's building me a +2 swingarm 85-87 length. He had no problem doing the 450r shock stuff.

[Black Sheep]

No offense death but we've been hearing about this 450R of yours since I started my first one back in 06. Back then it was gonna be a 250R based chassie. Once mine came out you changed it be almost an exact copy and yet we still haven't seen it. What's the holdup? Any plans on racing in the OTC series? We almost have enough 450's to have our own class and leave those poor 250R's alone.

[deathman53]

its coming, I seen pics of it. Yeah, I do plan to come out to race it several times. The reason I decided to go with current stuff was to eliminate discontinued parts and the fact that its cheaper to buy the newer parts now and usually in far better shape. I have 4 short track tanks, 1 new black one, 1 used black and 2 red ones, 4 sets of shrouds and enough radiator brackets to modify. I'm thinking about parts that will be able to easily get 10 years from now. The only stock atc parts will be the front hub and tire. The rear end will be 86-89 trx250r and that can be swapped easily to 450r stuff. I thought of the idea in 06, but didn't give it too much thought until late 07.

whats funny, I did have a 03 crf450r that years back(05) I thought about converting to a trike, but nobody else before did and I didn't move forward with the idea. I ended up selling the bike for $1000 w/o motor stuff. My next 03 crf450r, I stole the motor, I traded it for a bunch of parts. This one I didn't consider converting to a trike. I was gonna do 2 trikes, one being the 450r and other being very close but using a 86 200x motor and stock 88/89 250r swingarm. At the same time, my 86 200x was gonna be converted to use a 88/89 250r swingarm and suspension. I didn't have the money to do anything with the 200x idea.

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by deathman53


whats funny, I did have a 03 crf450r that years back(05) I thought about converting to a trike, but nobody else before did and I didn't move forward with the idea.


Lol...I was thinking about it as soon as they stopped making trikes. It wasn't until sept 03 when I saw the first pics of the TRX 450R and I knew it was the quad use. I even drew a sketch of how it would look and that pic hangs on my shop wall just above were my 450 sits.

Look forward to seeing you at the races. I've been a spectator this year recovering from surgery and I can tell you it's intense seeing these 450 trikes battling it out. A full 450 class would be awesome. I wish Hall and Adams would come back too.

Troybilt, sorry for the hi-Jack, I've got the 450R/cr 500 link set up on my trike. I also have a old ATC 250R frame laying around. I'll look at it and see if it's possible.

[troybilt]

Maybe we are all wet. What do you recommend for rear suspension on an ATC?

I've been reading old DW mags back in 82/83 and the Stadium guys back then ran +2 swingers with +10 width... crazy wide.

My 06 450 rear suspension sucked, the CR500 linkage is the way to go IMO, but an ATC is whole 'nother beast so maybe I'm leading him astray... no worries on the hi-jack.

Say he wants to get into racing 3 wheelers, we contacted the local MX park and they flat said no to trikes, actually it was offending what they had to say... I was embarassed for thinking he should ask them... Do you guys have that much trouble?

thanks,
Troy

[HondaATC500X]

I've been looking into doing this. I have a full Laeger TRX250R chassis I will build the fixture around. I've been wanting to do it on my personal bike, and I have a friend that wants it on his too. Drop me a PM if you want.

[deathman53]

get used to mx tracks and other riders snaring at you. I got it for years, most of the tracks I tried to get on, said they can't have trikes because of insurance reasons. One was very offending about them. I've got almost every single comment pro and neg about trikes. The uneducated have a narrow vision and only know the negative that 60 minutes and dateline showed. Keep triking on. I miss my trikes, I haven't ridden them for nearly 2 years. I did ride a trike here and there, I didn't lose anything on them. You should try and calling big name shops to building you a custom trike frame, you get very offended stuff there, some won't even call you back.

[Black Sheep]

We are actually very welcome at the tracks we race on in Ohio. In fact our organizations leader is always getting request from other track promoters begging us (3 wheelers) to show up.
We now working on tracks in NY, PA, and Indiana.

The ATC does not suffer the problems that the TRX has. You can have the stock shock rebuilt/revalved and it should work fine for most situations. Getting longer swingarms for them is not a big deal since they are identical to the 86-87 trx 250R.

The old 250R's 81-82 were very short and narrow so the need for the +10 width. That and the tracks they mainly rode on were very smooth with flat turns.


If the tracks you are talking to are AMA sanctioned...forget it...the AMA was one of the first organizations to outright ban 3wheelers...so much for protecting our right to ride...the key is to find non AMA tracks.

As far as the negative reactions...I used to get annoyed at all the remarks now I just laugh...

Aren't three wheelers dangerous?...why yes they are that's why only skilled riders should ride them.

Three wheelers are dangerous that's why they make quads...yep they made quads for people who can't ride trikes.

Quads are faster on a mx track...well if you want the fastest thing on a mx track why ride a quad get a bike.


p.s. There is no need to call the big name shops for trike frame. We do both quad conversions and full chromoly frames and we have the experience that none of the others can match