Cummins 4BT swap?

[woodsracer144]

I posted this on a ranger fourm. just want to hear your thoughts as well...

Ok i know there are afew guys that have done them, I know of 2 98+ rangers and a 2nd gen as well.

I've done some searching on this whole thing. I know they had them in some bread trucks and they use a chevy bell housing and ran a turbo 350 or 400 trans. I know they are used in boats as well but they dont last very long in them. I know that they are about 3 times the weight of the 4.0 I have in my 93 ranger but I would like to try this swap now, I've tossed the idea around a couple times and I just wasnt able to do it.

Where I need help-
1) I understand they make the 4b with many different Hp ratings, so what one would i want for my ranger? i was thinking about 160-200 Hp.

2) This would be in a 93 4x4 ext. cab. I would like to keep it 4x4 and from my understandings almost all Chevys T-cases are on the right and the rangers is on the left. I thought about using a Straight axle, My cousin told me some of the First bronco's like from the 60's and 70's would have a solid axle that i would have to deal with shorting it up. But as of right now if I could just keep my Front end alone and weld some plates on them and reinforce them I would be very happy and worry about a new axle for another time but I still have to worry about new Coils. I know it is common to use a F150 to give it alittle lift but would They be strong enough to hold that motor? or would I have to try something else?

3) rear end. From my understanding the Hp for the 4.0 and the 4bt are very close its the Tq. that would kill my rear end? If I would blow my rear end would I be able to beef it up or shound I deal with shorting a 9 inch.

4) trans, I would be doing a manual swap. This is the only transmission I would be willing to use with this motor is a manual set up. the question is what chevy transmission would be best? I would like to have a 5 speed or a O.D. but that 700R4 in the automatic state is nothing but a slush box IMHO.

5) kind deals with transmissions also but another reason im doing this swap is cause of MPG and its kinda different, My cousin said i should be able to pull 25 with it if i play my cards right.


So are there anything that Im missing about this that would go wrong? I was thinking about just buying a whole running truck that had the motor and the chevy bell house on it and just pull the motor and all that, and sell or scrap the rest of the truck.

[hotrodbelair]

you can run an adapter to run a ford transfer case on a gm transmission. idk what 5 speed gm had either a nv4500 or a nv3500 run one of those and they were in the newer chevys so there driver side drop transfer case.

[woodsracer144]

Originally posted by hotrodbelair
you can run an adapter to run a ford transfer case on a gm transmission. idk what 5 speed gm had either a nv4500 or a nv3500 run one of those and they were in the newer chevys so there driver side drop transfer case.

I found a spot where they have all the goodies i would need, question is what ones would hold up better? My cousin has the ford in his 6BT. I geuss another thing that would make a factor is the size of them.

your correct on the trans you named for the chevys, i thought they were just a TH350 that was auto or manaul but they have a whole nother name i guess...

[416exfreak]

Originally posted by hotrodbelair
you can run an adapter to run a ford transfer case on a gm transmission. idk what 5 speed gm had either a nv4500 or a nv3500 run one of those and they were in the newer chevys so there driver side drop transfer case.

The NV4500 also came in full sized Dodge diesels too.. alone with the NV5600.

Advanced Adapters can make you an adapter to put whatever tranny you want behind it really.

[woodsracer144]

Originally posted by 416exfreak
Advanced Adapters can make you an adapter to put whatever tranny you want behind it really.

where are they from? do you have link to the site? I found afew people who have used stuff, My main thing Im worried about is how big they are, i dont have to have to have a huge lift cause i dont care for lifted rangers to much unless they are the 1st gens, I want enough lift and susp. to just make everything fit and have enough so it doesnt look like a low rider... Just going to be a DD

[TheFontMaster]

There are bread vans out there that had ford transmissions behind the 4BT. They had an adaptor plate on the motor to put any diesel bolt pattern ford transmission behind it.

I have done research on this for my 95 f-150, and it's a reletively straight forward swap in them. I been hearing 25-30 mpg gallon in a half ton truck. Also the HP numbers that i found were 105 horse, and about 260 torque. They are really close to the numbers the 300 six's put out.

The transmissions that you have options for would be a c-6, AOD, E4OD for autos, or I think T-18 4 speed, ZF-5 5 speed, or ZF-6 6 speed.

[woodsracer144]

Originally posted by TheFontMaster
There are bread vans out there that had ford transmissions behind the 4BT. They had an adaptor plate on the motor to put any diesel bolt pattern ford transmission behind it.

I have done research on this for my 95 f-150, and it's a reletively straight forward swap in them. I been hearing 25-30 mpg gallon in a half ton truck. Also the HP numbers that i found were 105 horse, and about 260 torque. They are really close to the numbers the 300 six's put out.

The transmissions that you have options for would be a c-6, AOD, E4OD for autos, or I think T-18 4 speed, ZF-5 5 speed, or ZF-6 6 speed.

Crrect me if im wrong but could a feller use the same adaptor plate on the 6bt as the 4bt? i think those are the same bolt patteren.

The main thing im worring about it the fit and the over all cost to do the swap, If i do the swap I want to use a trans that could hadle the 6bt as well cause some day i would like to put a 6bt in a 99-02 style F350 crew cab If I could and then i would have the same trans and everything to swap over to that other truck.

I was thinking about find something for the FZ5 or FZ6. I want a stick, its the only way im going to work with this swap. I just dont know too much about master cylinders and clutch set ups for these things... I head for the 4BT that a factor ford clutch would hold up and its only like 130 for the whole thing...

[400exrider707]

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/index.php

[firefighterjosh]

Get your check book out too!

It would be cheaper to just to upgrade (if I dare say that) to a dodge with a 12v.

[CJM]

Honestly it would be a fun project, but alot of work and money.

Could throw a chevy 350 in there instead, people swap them all the time and its easy, even a 5.0 would be a good swap if you want power and better mpg.

[400exrider707]

4bt would be cool as all he!! though! I bet you'd get better economy with a 4bt! You can make some pretty darn good power with them too.

[woodsracer144]

well this is my plan, I want to put a 4bt in the ranger, all the mounting plates swap from teh 5.9 (6bt) and the 3.9 (4bt) so If and or when i get to doing the build I would use parts that the 5.9 would be able to handle so that way later on when i find the truck i want ( ford crew cab thats clean and 4x4) I can pull the whole set up swap out motors and be ready to roll again. Its going to be spendy but at the same time I'll get more mpg and miles out of the motor, my 4.0 is burning oil rather good and its time for something else. I thought if i'm gonna do a swap i might as well do it right and I'm a big diesel fan. Im a member on that 4btswaps site and there are 2 VERY good ranger builds going on right now. one is by a guy names tractorboy IIRCC and a davidWB or something like that

All in all, I think i could do the build and swap for under 4K cause i can make alot of the brackets and stuff but the adaptor plate for the motor,

and then i would be prolly the only one in the state of WI with a cummins ranger.

[TheFontMaster]

Originally posted by woodsracer144
Crrect me if im wrong but could a feller use the same adaptor plate on the 6bt as the 4bt? i think those are the same bolt patteren.

The main thing im worring about it the fit and the over all cost to do the swap, If i do the swap I want to use a trans that could hadle the 6bt as well cause some day i would like to put a 6bt in a 99-02 style F350 crew cab If I could and then i would have the same trans and everything to swap over to that other truck.

I was thinking about find something for the FZ5 or FZ6. I want a stick, its the only way im going to work with this swap. I just dont know too much about master cylinders and clutch set ups for these things... I head for the 4BT that a factor ford clutch would hold up and its only like 130 for the whole thing...


Well first of all, I would worry about the swap into the ranger, and leave the 350 idea compleatly out of the picture. Focus on what you have on hand. A stock zf5. or 6 trans and clutch will be super reliable behind a 4bt. I've heard of people getting up to 500 foot pounds out of a 4bt, and thats around stock for a 7.3 powerstroke. Also you can get adapter plates to put a ford trans behind a 6bt cummins. So you find a good crew cab, and you are set on having a cummins in there, then you can leave the factory drive train, and just swap in a 12 valve easily.

[woodsracer144]

Originally posted by TheFontMaster
Well first of all, I would worry about the swap into the ranger, and leave the 350 idea compleatly out of the picture. Focus on what you have on hand. A stock zf5. or 6 trans and clutch will be super reliable behind a 4bt. I've heard of people getting up to 500 foot pounds out of a 4bt, and thats around stock for a 7.3 powerstroke. Also you can get adapter plates to put a ford trans behind a 6bt cummins. So you find a good crew cab, and you are set on having a cummins in there, then you can leave the factory drive train, and just swap in a 12 valve easily.

The 4bt and 6bt take the same adaptor plates. I as thinking about a FZ6, my cousin has the FZ5.

Im not sure what to put it in though. if i should do it to my ranger or get a bigger truck so i dont have to piss with it later

[TheFontMaster]

Originally posted by woodsracer144
The 4bt and 6bt take the same adaptor plates. I as thinking about a FZ6, my cousin has the FZ5.

Im not sure what to put it in though. if i should do it to my ranger or get a bigger truck so i dont have to piss with it later


They 4BT is a very straight forward swap into a half ton ford. If you get one thats 87-96 thats already a 5 speed it makes it even easier. The ZF-5 is already a bolt in, upgrade of a transmission. So really all you need to fabricate is motor mounts, and radiator/intercooler supports. Wireing is a cakewalk for those motors too. You will have your starter wires, 2 wires for on/off for the injection pump, and 2 wires for the intake heater.

[woodsracer144]

Originally posted by TheFontMaster
They 4BT is a very straight forward swap into a half ton ford. If you get one thats 87-96 thats already a 5 speed it makes it even easier. The ZF-5 is already a bolt in, upgrade of a transmission. So really all you need to fabricate is motor mounts, and radiator/intercooler supports. Wireing is a cakewalk for those motors too. You will have your starter wires, 2 wires for on/off for the injection pump, and 2 wires for the intake heater.

have yo udone one of thses swaps before?

[TheFontMaster]

Originally posted by woodsracer144
have yo udone one of thses swaps before?


No I haven't, but I do alot of mechanical and custom fabrication work. I have a 95 half ton ford, and I have done alot of research about upgrades for my truck, cause I off road alot, and I've always been a diesel fan, and also done my fair share of research on 4BT swaps. Like I said in an earlier post, I intend on doing one in my truck. I'm just waiting till I come across a deal on a 4BT and the straight 6 in my truck, even with over 220,000 miles on it, just runs too damn good to worry about taking it out any time soon.

[woodsracer144]

I know where theres a good deal on one in Tenn i think.. he wasnt 1600 for the motor with extras. if you want more info let me know, Im gonna go with a 5.9 in a F350 now i think...

[TheFontMaster]

Originally posted by woodsracer144
I know where theres a good deal on one in Tenn i think.. he wasnt 1600 for the motor with extras. if you want more info let me know, Im gonna go with a 5.9 in a F350 now i think...


While that is a good deal, knowing what they sell for, I'm looking for one to apear at a junk yard, or something I find laying around someones yard for a few hundred.

[Ruby Soho]

there definitely out there.. a local junk yard has a 6bt cummins there willing to let go for 700 bucks..

a swap would be cool.. i was going to do a 6bt swap in my obs f150. but i had just gotten a d44 solid for the front and realized i would need a d60, atleast a 10.25 rear (or something equivalent) do a 5 speed, stiffer springs or swap to leafs, and just a ton of work so i decided to get a truck with all that HD stuff in it from the factory.

however the build would be fun as hell!

[woodsracer144]

I think i found my truck im going to use, its a 78 Ford F250 with a 400m in it, 4 speed with granny low, and a 4 inch lift. looks like 33's on it also. I think im gonna be selling my ranger and buying that truck.

[400exrider707]

Thinking about this some more... I think someone had a 97ish F150 with a 4BT swapped into it already for sale on one of the forums. I want to say it was on dieselbombers.com like 3 months ago. It wasn't complete, but the motor was in.

[woodsracer144]

heres my starting point prolly.

79 F250 400M 4 speed (im thinking its a T18 or T19) 4 inch lift

body has its dents but its a good start i think...

The guy wasnts 2k obo...

[400exrider707]

Buy it, then pucnh him for having stacks on a gas truck.

[woodsracer144]

he got it like that... I asked him about it and he said the guy he got it from was a dumb ***...

[400exrider707]

No one made him leave it on there! haha. ahhh I've been drinking sorry. :devil:

[woodsracer144]

haha, well if they are done right its one less thing for me to do...

[400exrider707]

Yes, IF you like bullhaulers!

[woodsracer144]

What would a core 5.9 cummins or 4bt be worth?

500 bucks?

[Ruby Soho]

5.9's are worth big bucks around here

[woodsracer144]

a blown one that needs a rebuild?

I was thinking like 5-700

[woodsracer144]

ok so i just want to hear your thoughts on this.

If I would get that yellow 78 F250, and i did the swap, does this sound like a fair amount of money

truck, 2k
trans 1k
adapter plate package and motor- 1400(motors a core)
rebuild- 750

that bring it to a grand total of 4150. does that sound about right?

[400exrider707]

Sounds like you're way low on the price of the motor...

Are you getting the adapter from destroked? They're like 700 or 800 right?

So have you decided if you're doing 4bt or 6bt yet? The cheapest I see any 5.9's go for around here is like $1500 and that is without the turbo or exhaust manifold, and possibly even no pump. Usually a good running one is over $2k easy. Are you going 12V or 24V or CR? 12V would be the easiest but also the least powerful.

4BT would be sweet but I have no clue what they go for cost wise. There are a few really high horsepower 4bt's kicking around too.


With a project like this, it's usually a good idea to just go ahead and take whatever you think it will cost, then just double it or triple it.;)

[woodsracer144]

im going to run the 6bt, core motor with all the plates and stuff with it, all used,

I couldnt swing the amount of a destroked plate new or any other new plates... I will be getting it all used or making me one by self.

[400exrider707]

Ok gotcha. Do you have the stuff lined up somewhere or are you just gonna look around and hope to find something. Those prices I posted for 5.9's were used prices.

You're just looking for a block then gonna build it up orrrr?

[woodsracer144]

I wanted a whole motor that is a core to rebuild cause that way i have a "new" motor, I have it all lined up, i just have to find the cash... quick...

[woodsracer144]

I wanted a whole motor that is a core to rebuild cause that way i have a "new" motor, I have it all lined up, i just have to find the cash... quick...

[400exrider707]

I commend you for wanting to do that, but it wont be cheap building one of them up. I'd just try and find a decent one with lowish miles that hasn't been beat to death and it should be fine. Just make sure on a 12v to do the dowel pin before putting it in the truck.

A p-pumped 12V would be niiiiice.

[woodsracer144]

a full rebuild kit is 750 plus shipping... i dont think thats bad, pistons rods cranks bearings. everything you need.

[firefighterjosh]

I think you need to double your price.;) Then add another $2k

[woodsracer144]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
I think you need to double your price.;) Then add another $2k

for what? the motor or the overall build?

I don't think it will take to much. right now I'm trying to make my truck look as nice as i can so i can get a little more money out of it.

I also am still trying to find things. i mainly need to find a truck that i can drive for few weeks while this is under the gun so we'll see how it goes.

[firefighterjosh]

Originally posted by woodsracer144
for what? the motor or the overall build?

I don't think it will take to much. right now I'm trying to make my truck look as nice as i can so i can get a little more money out of it.

I also am still trying to find things. i mainly need to find a truck that i can drive for few weeks while this is under the gun so we'll see how it goes.

Overall build.

I thought about putting a 12v or 24 in my F250 but it was going to be about $10k to do it right.

[trick450r]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
I think you need to double your price.;) Then add another $2k

I second this notion.

When I built the drivetrain for my car everyone on ls1tech told me to double my budget and add 25%...now that all is said and done they were pretty damn close to right.

Your going to find problems on the truck, motor, and everything else that you didn't count on. If you plan on doing it correctly your going to have to back track and fix all of those little things, which believe me will nickle and dime you to death.

[woodsracer144]

ok i would agree with you to a point that i might cost more, it is cheaper to do it in a full sized truck then my ranger though cause after i would get my lift kit and all the bushings done that would been a nice penny,

with the 70's ford you had to cut a cross member and weld it but i have all the tools to do that the 80-96 it was just a matter of motor mounts

on of the main problems i found would be finding a BB plate or using a SB and finding a clutch that would hold up.

my cousin has a puck style clutch in his 86 CC and I'm thinking more and more about just breaking a deal with him on that cause he wants 4500 for it and all it really needs done is body work and a inner cooler mounted up.

[firefighterjosh]

If it was a true bolt up you could easily budget better.

You may have a idea of price but wait until you start running into small problems like, the transfer case won't work, crap I need a new steering box, might as well go with hydro steering, crap the rear end blew up, front diff won't work now, might as well SAS the truck ect.