is quad racing gowing downhill?

[mayno323]

Just wondering what you people think of the situation? Seems to me 5 years ago the local quad series and nationals had way more riders. Maybe its just the whole economy thing.

[rollie]

up in the northeast where still going strong, numbers might be a little bit down but not too bad, the economy is defiantly effecting people though. that $300 a weekend for racing can easily be spent elsewhere on peoples mortgages etc.

[jjv101]

aint that the truth, it cost me an easy $80+ to take my quad for practice here in ohio...thinking of selling and going to a bike where it will be half that

[DnB_racing]

Ive been at several quad and bike mx races, from what Ive seen is there are many more good looking girls at the bike races,
Im saying good looking girls bring in more crowds.
if we want quads to last have your girlfriends bring only there best looking friends and have them wear short shorts, that will get intrest. at least mine!!

[muddy400EX]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
Ive been at several quad and bike mx races, from what Ive seen is there are many more good looking girls at the bike races,
Im saying good looking girls bring in more crowds.
if we want quads to last have your girlfriends bring only there best looking friends and have them wear short shorts, that will get intrest. at least mine!!

haha, very true^

[FHKracingZ]

Quad racing on the national stage is a joke. They rape you for every single thing. $5 for laptime print outs? are you ****ting me? They need to break it down into the local, area, and regional qualifiers like the bikes. And center the nationals into 3-4 big races a year.

[slightlybent47]

In 08 we had an average of 150 riders at every race, in 09 we had about 100 riders every race, and this year we are down to 50 or so every race. So hell yeah it getting bad, I’m beginning to wonder if we will even have an org racing quads in my area next year.

As for getting the girls out I don’t think that will do it, I don’t come out here for the girls that’s just a by product, but a very welcome by product I might add.

[bubsyfz450]

hell yes it did!!! it affected me big time!! i used to race every weekend and practice about twice a week, but no i cant even afford to ride my quad, i have a built 06 yfz with maybe 20 hours on. it hasnt been rode in almost 2 years!!

but i live in northern california, and when i was racing, we were lucky to get 10-15 quads total.... it was pretty weak!!

[yellowzo3]

I know rollie said things are doing well in the northeast, but NJ has slowly but surely eliminated quads from the racing scene.

Englishtown was one of the only real tracks around here and they used to allow quads to practice every sunday and held a couple races a year (yeah, its not much but its really one of the only places we had)... Years ago they offered a season pass thing you could buy so you could just come and practice every sunday. Well a few years later that changed to $40 a day to ride and no more season passes. Now they've eliminated quads entirely except for 2 races. No more practice on weekends.

Englishtown has 2 big tracks. They gave both of them to the bikes now and the bikes practice multiple days throughout the week and have way more races. There's also a small jr track for the kids to practice on for dirtbikes. What was there for quads? Oh nothing really. I can remember a few times little kids were riding around with everyone else on their Raptor 80's and stuff. That's asking for trouble. You couldn't even see the kids sometimes because they'd be in between a double, invisible to everyone.

Englishtown dumped their entire quad racing program and scene to cater to bikes. That was the only legit establishment capable of handling a national and now its off limits to quads, except for 2 days out of the year. Big whoop :rolleyes:

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by slightlybent47

As for getting the girls out I don’t think that will do it, I don’t come out here for the girls that’s just a by product, but a very welcome by product I might add.

Ya I was just being light hearted, but the point I was trying to make is there has to be something to peek the interest of the public. we need more audience turnout (besides family) sadly I dont know what it will take to draw the crowds, cause with bigger crowds brings more support!!

[Lasher]

I know that we have not made every race this season due to cash. Between building the quads and race weekend costs it is just too much this summer.

Many people I have talked to about starting up racing here in the North East have the same problem...extra cash.

Once the economy turns around, more people will be able to attend races.

[ben300]

Originally posted by Lasher
Once the economy turns around

thats the problem...

[finsteratv]

i wish we had more atv racing here in oregon :mad:

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by finsteratv
i wish we had more atv racing here in oregon :mad:

you might not have the races but you have quality riding areas, Id take some nice sandpits any day! your still lucky

[SRH]

i hate to say it but the sport had some growth and i feel like were heading backwards....450 models being dropped....at least my local suzuki dealer was saying its a definite possibility...idk dirtbikes just seem to be growing more and more, if i hadnt got injured id be ridin a 2010 yzf 450 with all my buddies who now ride dirtbikes...

u know what seems to stay pretty good is the gncc races for quads and bikes, real good core there...mx is costly and we dont draw spectators like bikes...so its hard to do anything with

[TNT]

Originally posted by SRH
u know what seems to stay pretty good is the gncc races for quads and bikes, real good core there...mx is costly and we dont draw spectators like bikes...so its hard to do anything with

Dunno much about GNCC but why is it less expensive? Why more #'s are there less injury's? I never been to a GNCC national but seems like spectators can't see them as well through woods, etc?

Cost, injuries, and the amount of time to do MX nationals made us quit latley.....11 nationals is insane only for the rich with too much time to spare on thier hands and for what, the few that make it to the top and if you don't then what?

[yellowzo3]

Originally posted by TNT
Dunno much about GNCC but why is it less expensive? Why more #'s are there less injury's? I never been to a GNCC national but seems like spectators can't see them as well through woods, etc?

Cost, injuries, and the amount of time to do MX nationals made us quit latley.....11 nationals is insane only for the rich with too much time to spare on thier hands and for what, the few that make it to the top and if you don't then what?

Quoted for truth brotha! If you want to get serious with MX you better have some serious money allocated for it. Whether people like to admit it or not, MANY pro riders in both bike mx and quad mx come from very wealthy families or have money of their own to burn. Most of them wouldn't be where they are today if it weren't for the financial backing their parents gave them. If we all had the money these families have set aside for MX then I'm willing to bet a bunch of us could make it to their level. It's amazing to see some of the rigs these families pull up in... you'd think they already had factory backing. I'm sure there's some even crazier stuff in the dirtbike scene though.

As for GNCC, the spectators are spread out through the woods on the side of the trail and watch/cheer when the riders pass. They also help out when riders take a spill and can't lift their bikes out of the ditch alone :p ...I guess it may be a little less expensive, but the quads still take a serious beating and I'm sure tons of stuff breaks. Lots of $$ involved in either style of racing.

[Scro]

Originally posted by TNT
Dunno much about GNCC but why is it less expensive? Why more #'s are there less injury's? I never been to a GNCC national but seems like spectators can't see them as well through woods, etc?


It's mainly because you can take basically a stock machine out, and do well. A good set of tires and skidplates is all you really need. Although it's helps alot to have suspension, it's not necessary. Almost every racer at the MX nationals has atleast extended a-arms, and this is a huge advantage over somebody trying it out for the first time on a stock machine.

Spectating is dependent on the track. Most tracks will have a hillclimb, creek jump, or creek crossing that is interesting to watch. You may have to hike a little to get there though. But there's always a trail within earshot that you can go watch.

Also, I would think that there are less injuries in GNCC. It still happens from time to time, but atleast you aren't falling from 20 feet in the air. XC racing on the eastcoast can be tough on your wrists if you don't have a good stabilizer. Rocks, trees, roots...they will all jam a wrist in a heartbeat.

[wilkin250r]

Plus, it just seems to be a regional thing. Quads in general seem to be much more popular in the midwest and eastern parts of the country, and I think GNCC racing is more popular because the general public can relate to it better.

Except for WORCs racing and the occasional desert race, quad racing is almost non-existent on the west coast. We don't have local race circuits, no motocross series, nothing. I've seen several small circuits (1 track) come and go, it just doesn't catch on.

[hsr]

The risk, investment, and dedication to actually make it as a pro where you can make a living is huge. You figure there are probably on 5 pro mx atv guys making a living at it. A few years ago there were probably 15 or so? The economy is in the tank, and the talk of manufactures dropping 450 models is pretty scary. It seems that everytime the sport starts to gain momentum and popularity it doesn't last long. Its always 2 steps forward 1 step back. Most local tracks don't want to deal with quads b/c of the issues b/w bike riders and quad riders. It always seems to be an uphill battle. It's like the sport has been dying a slow death since it began. It's really to bad.

[trick450r]

Its simple no body has money and motocross is a wealthy person's sport.

When it comes down to it in any 450 mx class you just cannot compete (even in C) unless you have a completely built quad, unless your a sandbagger...

[finsteratv]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
you might not have the races but you have quality riding areas, Id take some nice sandpits any day! your still lucky

yeah the sand is a ways away from me though:( but the trails here are amazing and theres just so many:devil:

[BlaineKaiser450]

Quad racing in northern california has virtually stopped. There is not a single place to ride, other than ohv parks, which arn't worth the time. It sucks!

[mxduner]

Originally posted by Scro
It's mainly because you can take basically a stock machine out, and do well. A good set of tires and skidplates is all you really need. Although it's helps alot to have suspension, it's not necessary. Almost every racer at the MX nationals has atleast extended a-arms, and this is a huge advantage over somebody trying it out for the first time on a stock machine.

Spectating is dependent on the track. Most tracks will have a hillclimb, creek jump, or creek crossing that is interesting to watch. You may have to hike a little to get there though. But there's always a trail within earshot that you can go watch.

Also, I would think that there are less injuries in GNCC. It still happens from time to time, but atleast you aren't falling from 20 feet in the air. XC racing on the eastcoast can be tough on your wrists if you don't have a good stabilizer. Rocks, trees, roots...they will all jam a wrist in a heartbeat. That sums it up pretty good. I know a bunch of guys with stock machines that tried xc, but would never try mx. The ride time also helps in xc to. I have not raced since 07 seems out of work again this summer:mad:

[SRH]

if suzuki gets out of it , u know its time to go buy a dirtbike

[sexysilverado45]

i race the tqra and ckms (central kansas motorcross series) this will be my second year and i hate seeing it die like this i really enjoy it and wish i would have started earlier and i hope this sport can make it threw the hard times. I haven't raced many tqra's this year i went to north forty and oak hill and it seemed like the turnouts were pretty good. north forty was kinda rainy so for the conditions it seemed good.

something to think about back in the day when i paintballed it was a dying sport and a few days ago i checked a forum and it seems to be on the rise so it might be one of those things were our sport dies down and comes back kinda like a roller coaster.

[slightlybent47]

I don’t think it will die out completely everywhere, but in many places it will. Only the diehards will be left till the economy comes back “if it ever does”

[slightlybent47]

Originally posted by sexysilverado45
i race the tqra and ckms (central kansas motorcross series) this will be my second year and i hate seeing it die like this i really enjoy it and wish i would have started earlier and i hope this sport can make it threw the hard times. I haven't raced many tqra's this year i went to north forty and oak hill and it seemed like the turnouts were pretty good. north forty was kinda rainy so for the conditions it seemed good.

something to think about back in the day when i paintballed it was a dying sport and a few days ago i checked a forum and it seems to be on the rise so it might be one of those things were our sport dies down and comes back kinda like a roller coaster.

Hey sexysilverodo45 where are you located? Have you ever raced with the GCQRA or SORP?

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
you might not have the races but you have quality riding areas, Id take some nice sandpits any day! your still lucky
Oregon still has its fair share of tree huggers and DB's ...:ermm:

I wish there was more in Oregon too!


That way we woulsnt have to drive so far to race ! lol :p

[dehner47]

damn. everyone is talking about how quad racing is going downhill and all. hell, obv most of your guys/girls never attended a national in the 90's early 2000's. cause what you call "downhill" is still twice as big as the nationals back then. when there was no thing as "factory teams" and big pay checks. just dudes on expensive 250r's and everyone did it for the love of the sport and not for the $$$ and the chicks.. ok, well we still did it for the chicks but there was still no $$$ involved...

all you old school racers, holla if ya hear me....

[yellowzo3]

Originally posted by dehner47
damn. everyone is talking about how quad racing is going downhill and all. hell, obv most of your guys/girls never attended a national in the 90's early 2000's. cause what you call "downhill" is still twice as big as the nationals back then. when there was no thing as "factory teams" and big pay checks. just dudes on expensive 250r's and everyone did it for the love of the sport and not for the $$$ and the chicks.. ok, well we still did it for the chicks but there was still no $$$ involved...

all you old school racers, holla if ya hear me....

We're talking downhill as in the sport was growing tremendously, but in the past few years it has steadily been moving backwards to where it was before it gained popularity.

Just think back... There was the WPSA on tv, new 450's coming out from brands that didn't even have sport quads or any quads at all for that matter, multiple factory backed riders on each team, and tracks and riding parks galore.

Since that peak we've completely lost the WPSA, many riders like Gust can't get a factory ride, TONS of tracks closing their doors to quads (you're in nj so i know you're feeling the pain for sure), lots of local series having poor rider turnouts, aftermarket parts suppliers shutting down and those that are still standing aren't growing much, and all the other things people have mentioned in here.

Basically we are slowly returning to the 90's as far as the atv racing scene goes. If the economy keeps dropping many more sponsors will pull out of quad racing, more riders will be cut, and the riders that are factory backed will take pay cuts, which will probably leave them unable to live off of quad racing. You have to remember, even the best riders make no where near what dirtbike guys are making. It's a shame but its true.

Dirt bikes are where the moneys at so that's where companies are focusing their attention to. You really can't blame them for dropping their interest in quads... They have nothing to gain by spending a few million on an atv race team. Quads have no publicity compared to dirtbikes... the WPSA series getting dropped hurt the sport in a catastrophic way. It was really our only positive publicity and once that was taken away we have simply fallen out of the sight of millions of people and are once again thought of as hillbilly rednecks riding through the mud with no helmets. We aren't taken seriously and have no publicity so it only makes sense for teams to drop their atv program and try to save and expand their bike programs.

The economy needs to start booming if we want to rise back up. But I still think it will take forever to get back where we were. I dont know... I feel like we had our chance and blew it. Not by any fault of our own, but things just didn't work out for the sport as everyone had hoped. The economy crashing came and probably the worst time for the atv industry as it was on the rise with no end in sight, and then once things started getting bad it seemed like quads were the first thing to drop off the map.

Most quad forums I visited aren't even half as active as they used to be. This is the only site that seems to be going strong and I've even noticed a lot of sections on here have been slow. I hope it does turn around though :( ...Lots of great people and families in the sport. I've made a bunch of friends because of quads and I'm sure a lot of you guys have too. Would be awesome to see things get back on track!

Sorry for the long post! :p

[QuadJunkies]

Its obvious it was an economy thing. Things were at the best until the whole market fell apart. Our Nats on the West Coast numbers are still OK, but not as prosperous as two season ago. The cost for travel is soooo expensive . Trust me , I travel an Ave. of 17 hours per race-one way. That may change next season :( lol
Not sure if or when we will see the numbers up there like that again. :ermm:
Only one can hope .

[TNT]

Originally posted by dehner47
damn. everyone is talking about how quad racing is going downhill and all. hell, obv most of your guys/girls never attended a national in the 90's early 2000's. cause what you call "downhill" is still twice as big as the nationals back then. when there was no thing as "factory teams" and big pay checks. just dudes on expensive 250r's and everyone did it for the love of the sport and not for the $$$ and the chicks.. ok, well we still did it for the chicks but there was still no $$$ involved...

all you old school racers, holla if ya hear me....

I dunno, I don’t call 50% growth in 20-30 years profitable or attractive to an investor that is what put WPSA in bankruptcy court.

Most business secs have had to merge, realign their business model to survive this economy in a global market.

Seems like it’s the infrastructure, business model at fault here and ATVPG has a stranglehold on it…..I always said it was SUCH a shame, ATVA/AMA and WPSA could not merge and combine their strengths rather than compete but others thought the competition good and tried to profit from it, and merge with some of the other US world wide series to create synergy and financial strength, the kind that could invest in getting TV rating’s up which is another MUST to grow this sport.

By realignment of a business model I mean that build’s it from the grass roots local level industry included, up to a National Title or World Cup. I’m not going to try and act smart here, I’m no business tycoon or entrepreneur and give details how to do that. I have read a TON of opinions, bottom line IMO will be Return on Investment ROI to the one that puts their money where their idea is if it’s that great.

EG: local qualifying puts more money in the sport vs of the petro-industry….How? If more buy quads instead of gas it brings retail and part cost down, simply supply and demand, grows the sport financially from the bottom up….. Seems to make sense but what do I know.

Problem is if that happens less attend ATPG nationals they loose profits to local/regional in the short term. If they’d look at the long term ROI not the case, so you can see they acknowledge this by the 2010 North/South and MX series FINALLY as step in the right direct, but that does not put a dent in the problem. The sport needs much, much, more even if the economy rebounds.

Again 50% over 20-30 years won’t cut it will sink itself in a storm again nor attract investor's, it needs 50% in a solid 5-year business plan, 10% per year growth seems minimal to me and most business realign when they do not achieve that.

Oh well it is what it is better than nothing!

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by TNT
I dunno, I don’t call 50% growth in 20-30 years profitable or attractive to an investor that is what put WPSA in bankruptcy court.

Most business secs have had to merge, realign their business model to survive this economy in a global market.

Seems like it’s the infrastructure, business model at fault here and ATVPG has a stranglehold on it…..I always said it was SUCH a shame, ATVA/AMA and WPSA could not merge and combine their strengths rather than compete but others thought the competition good and tried to profit from it, and merge with some of the other US world wide series to create synergy and financial strength, the kind that could invest in getting TV rating’s up which is another MUST to grow this sport.

By realignment of a business model I mean that build’s it from the grass roots local level industry included, up to a National Title or World Cup. I’m not going to try and act smart here, I’m no business tycoon or entrepreneur and give details how to do that. I have read a TON of opinions, bottom line IMO will be Return on Investment ROI to the one that puts their money where their idea is if it’s that great.

EG: local qualifying puts more money in the sport vs of the petro-industry….How? If more buy quads instead of gas it brings retail and part cost down, simply supply and demand, grows the sport financially from the bottom up….. Seems to make sense but what do I know.

Problem is if that happens less attend ATPG nationals they loose profits to local/regional in the short term. If they’d look at the long term ROI not the case, so you can see they acknowledge this by the 2010 North/South and MX series FINALLY as step in the right direct, but that does not put a dent in the problem. The sport needs much, much, more even if the economy rebounds.

Again 50% over 20-30 years won’t cut it will sink itself in a storm again nor attract investor's, it needs 50% in a solid 5-year business plan, 10% per year growth seems minimal to me and most business realign when they do not achieve that.

Oh well it is what it is better than nothing!


Agreed !

[mx8]

Originally posted by dehner47
damn. everyone is talking about how quad racing is going downhill and all. hell, obv most of your guys/girls never attended a national in the 90's early 2000's. cause what you call "downhill" is still twice as big as the nationals back then. when there was no thing as "factory teams" and big pay checks. just dudes on expensive 250r's and everyone did it for the love of the sport and not for the $$$ and the chicks.. ok, well we still did it for the chicks but there was still no $$$ involved...

all you old school racers, holla if ya hear me....

I raced 1996 to 2000. I lived to go to the national's. Racing was like a second job, THAT I LOVED. It was so much better then. Like you said we raced because we loved it.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
Ive been at several quad and bike mx races, from what Ive seen is there are many more good looking girls at the bike races,
Im saying good looking girls bring in more crowds.
if we want quads to last have your girlfriends bring only there best looking friends and have them wear short shorts, that will get intrest. at least mine!!

I hate to agree with your pig headed remark but I've said the same thing...I'd rather go to bike national because the scenery off the track is much better.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
I hate to agree with your pig headed remark but I've said the same thing...I'd rather go to bike national because the scenery off the track is much better.

well thank you for agreeing with my pigheaded remark!! but I was making a point that we need something to bring in crowds, with more people come more money! more money is more support! I was being light hearted about a way to get more crowd attendance,
Last weekend I was looking for something for my family to do, and I was trying to find something for atvs. and I had a hard time and I was looking!! people that are just wondering what to do with there family wont go through all the time it took me to find an event. we have no real advertising of events for the public to easily see!! and attend

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
well thank you for agreeing with my pigheaded remark!! but I was making a point that we need something to bring in crowds, with more people come more money! more money is more support! I was being light hearted about a way to get more crowd attendance,
Last weekend I was looking for something for my family to do, and I was trying to find something for atvs. and I had a hard time and I was looking!! people that are just wondering what to do with there family wont go through all the time it took me to find an event. we have no real advertising of events for the public to easily see!! and attend

I took it as lighthearted for sure. I'm as much a pig as the next guy. I've been thinking about opening a bowling alley for a few years...done a bunch of research on it. One of the things I want is a Hooter's connected to it.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
I took it as lighthearted for sure. I'm as much a pig as the next guy. I've been thinking about opening a bowling alley for a few years...done a bunch of research on it. One of the things I want is a Hooter's connected to it.

that's good!!!a bowling alley ahh,,, might work!!

I just wanted to make sure you knew that I wasn't JUST being a pig!! but really hope for more crowds at the races with short shorts

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by dehner47
damn. everyone is talking about how quad racing is going downhill and all. hell, obv most of your guys/girls never attended a national in the 90's early 2000's. cause what you call "downhill" is still twice as big as the nationals back then. when there was no thing as "factory teams" and big pay checks. just dudes on expensive 250r's and everyone did it for the love of the sport and not for the $$$ and the chicks.. ok, well we still did it for the chicks but there was still no $$$ involved...

all you old school racers, holla if ya hear me....


Amen to that!

Racing will be back to its grassroots before we know it. Which some may consider good or bad.... Get the politics out of racing, cost down, and not dictate rules so much..... and i think it will be better. Just like it was before!

And if some of the race series, organizations, and product companies werent trying to make so much money of the racers(the backbone of the sport!)...... maybe the turnouts would be better.... Just a thought.

Justin

[TNT]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
I hate to agree with your pig headed remark but I've said the same thing...I'd rather go to bike national because the scenery off the track is much better.


I dunno how many of you went to WPSA races but they had bikini contest after the quals on Sat......Any lady could enter for prize money, the crowds were large and roared!! May have something to do with how fast the #s grew at this series...WPSA had the right vision in more ways than this, just not the $.

I dunno why ATVA does not do it, guess they figure golf cart parades and concerts are more family orientated. I personally like the bikinis better call me pig headed lol. :D

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by TNT
I dunno how many of you went to WPSA races but they had bikini contest after the quals on Sat......Any lady could enter for prize money, the crowds were large and roared!! May have something to do with how fast the #s grew at this series...WPSA had the right vision in more ways than this, just not the $.

I dunno why ATVA does not do it, guess they figure golf cart parades and concerts are more family orientated. :rolleyes:

The WPSA did have some decent ideas for entertainment to try to draw in more spectators to make more money. I wasnt a huge fan of the whole race series myself, they were gone as quick as they came and in my honest opinion could have done MUCHHHHH better for the sport if they focused more on the future of ATV racing and not focusing more on making money. If im not mistaken they made quite a few snowx racers unhappy over the years also.

I just wish people could see how racing Was years ago, when it was all about racing, and not about the race series and manufactors making top dollar off us. It blows me away that we the racers provide them with money for their paychecks, and yet in the bad economy i have yet to notice ANY cost reduction in either racing or equipment(quads, parts, etc..) In almost every case, the cost has went up... Seems like when times were good, some may have gotten a little greedy and dug too big of a hole, now they are still trying to get out of it at the racers expense.

[TNT]

Originally posted by jrspawn
The WPSA did have some decent ideas for entertainment to try to draw in more spectators to make more money. I wasnt a huge fan of the whole race series myself, they were gone as quick as they came and in my honest opinion could have done MUCHHHHH better for the sport if they focused more on the future of ATV racing and not focusing more on making money. If im not mistaken they made quite a few snowx racers unhappy over the years also.

I just wish people could see how racing Was years ago, when it was all about racing, and not about the race series and manufactors making top dollar off us. It blows me away that we the racers provide them with money for their paychecks, and yet in the bad economy i have yet to notice ANY cost reduction in either racing or equipment(quads, parts, etc..) In almost every case, the cost has went up... Seems like when times were good, some may have gotten a little greedy and dug too big of a hole, now they are still trying to get out of it at the racers expense.

I agree with ya but think we reap what we soe in part...someone brought this up earlier in the thread how many $250-750k toder mobile rigs show up and fuel, it seems to be growing. With that said if you were a WPSA/ATVA business man and seen a pot of gold would you not go after it? I only go back 7 years but have seen the keep up with the pit jones syndrom grow, not to mention having private mechanics and pro-built quads in A and Pro-am. If you look at the big picture racing fees are small in comparsion to the amount of money we spend in the pit/quads/fuel.....These days rich man sport is written on the wall, unfortuante for those that are not rich>.

[SRH]

Originally posted by jrspawn
Amen to that!

Racing will be back to its grassroots before we know it. Which some may consider good or bad.... Get the politics out of racing, cost down, and not dictate rules so much..... and i think it will be better. Just like it was before!

And if some of the race series, organizations, and product companies werent trying to make so much money of the racers(the backbone of the sport!)...... maybe the turnouts would be better.... Just a thought.

Justin


with the costs and risk involved stepping backwards is not what we need, i started in 00 right up to 08 sport was at its peak in 06-07 and its regressing, its never taken off no matter how much it was pushed... honestly if i could do it all over i would of stayed on the dirtbikes

i see 1990 coming up real quick, it took 10-12 yrs after the last hit if we dont hang on now, we blew it

without manufactuer influence lets go back to spending 20-30 k to build something custom ..... they were cool quads and times

maybe we can get on lucas oil on the edge right next to topless lawn mower racing and backwards bar stool races

[SRH]

Originally posted by jrspawn
The WPSA did have some decent ideas for entertainment to try to draw in more spectators to make more money. I wasnt a huge fan of the whole race series myself, they were gone as quick as they came and in my honest opinion could have done MUCHHHHH better for the sport if they focused more on the future of ATV racing and not focusing more on making money. If im not mistaken they made quite a few snowx racers unhappy over the years also.

I just wish people could see how racing Was years ago, when it was all about racing, and not about the race series and manufactors making top dollar off us. It blows me away that we the racers provide them with money for their paychecks, and yet in the bad economy i have yet to notice ANY cost reduction in either racing or equipment(quads, parts, etc..) In almost every case, the cost has went up... Seems like when times were good, some may have gotten a little greedy and dug too big of a hole, now they are still trying to get out of it at the racers expense.

it was all about racing but no one was hanging it out like they do today, honestly if we were providing them with such big paychecks we wouldnt be the first gettin axed on the manufactuer end, and like with any market if the times are good and youll pay it thats the going rate , its a business for them not a passion, if you want to race youll pay if , if you dont theyll do something to appease you or venture somwhere else, hold more dirtbike races or another series...

honestly racing for prestige only is hardly worth it, if your not making a paycheck why take it seriously...its all about business

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by SRH
it was all about racing but no one was hanging it out like they do today, honestly if we were providing them with such big paychecks we wouldnt be the first gettin axed on the manufactuer end, and like with any market if the times are good and youll pay it thats the going rate , its a business for them not a passion, if you want to race youll pay if , if you dont theyll do something to appease you or venture somwhere else, hold more dirtbike races or another series...

honestly racing for prestige only is hardly worth it, if your not making a paycheck why take it seriously...its all about business


"if your not making a paycheck why take it seriously" my point exactly, but again those of you who were in the scene/nationals before the big 4 really got in, dont realize what nationals were really like back then. It WAS all about fun, and not about paychecks.

Justin

[slightlybent47]

Spend some time watching bike races and then watch the quads run, the bikes will have twice the riders per race, not because there are more entrees, but because they can fit more bikes on the gats and it makes it more exciting to watch 40 bikes race at one time then it is to watch 10 quads.
Add the fact that the bikes can run 3 to 4 bikes wide at the same time on the same track and there is a lot more going on during the race.
With bikes there is much more passing and bumping going on, more lead changes, witch looks much more exciting to watch then the quads.
It’s kind of like the deference between NASCAR and Indy racing, NASCAR has a lot more bumping and grinding going on where as the Indy cars cant do that and have to be more conservative when passing.

[3racers]

Things seem to be holding on pretty good here in va.We have a va. xc series about 100 quads in all classes once a month.We went to GNCC at snowshoe w va. almost 90 quads in 90cc kids and almost 300 in the afternoon quads that the pros were in.they also had morn. race for quad rookies with a bunch there too.Have been lucky to hold on to a job because no job =no racin 2 sons raceing can get costly.

[TNT]

Originally posted by jrspawn
"if your not making a paycheck why take it seriously" my point exactly, but again those of you who were in the scene/nationals before the big 4 really got in, dont realize what nationals were really like back then. It WAS all about fun, and not about paychecks.

Justin

I can identify with what you’re saying in a different way. Back in mid 70’s I grew up So. Cal by Glen Helen, in Pomona. I was 15 or so, never heard of racing quads, bikes were popular, the Bull Taco, Yam YZ, Hon Elsinore, 250’s battled it out, the bull taco was a hill climbing king.

Anyway, my generation s

EDIT: Looks like I lost my post editing, sorry will try again later. :rolleyes:

[400ex28]

I just got back from the local track and the turnout was very low.

[slightlybent47]

One thing wrong with a lot of sports and I guess racing is no deferent.
Once a athlete or rider makes it to the big time they think that they deserve all this big money and that there entitled to it.
If it is a business then it should be treated as one and yes you should be able to make a living doing it but you are not entitled to the big bonus money until you perform at a given level.
Ball players are the worst, they want big bonus money just to sine up on the primes that they will do will. And now it seems that CEO’s are doing it as well, when the banks failed and we bailed them out, the CEO’s still got there bonus money even though there company failed.
It’s all coming down to greed these days, everywhere you turn everyone wants there money before they earn it.

[yellowzo3]

Originally posted by slightlybent47
One thing wrong with a lot of sports and I guess racing is no deferent.
Once a athlete or rider makes it to the big time they think that they deserve all this big money and that there entitled to it.
If it is a business then it should be treated as one and yes you should be able to make a living doing it but you are not entitled to the big bonus money until you perform at a given level.
Ball players are the worst, they want big bonus money just to sine up on the primes that they will do will. And now it seems that CEO’s are doing it as well, when the banks failed and we bailed them out, the CEO’s still got there bonus money even though there company failed.
It’s all coming down to greed these days, everywhere you turn everyone wants there money before they earn it.

No doubt about that man. Very good point. I guess you're right as no one is forcing these riders to try and go pro, but I guess people are sort of mad when the pros on bikes are getting millions a year and most of the quad guys working just as hard can't even live off of racing and are being cut even further. The bike scene is growing while the quad scene is disappearing. :ermm:

[mx8]

Has ATV racing ever been big? Everybody says that ATV racing will make a come back . COME BACK TO WHAT?

[SRH]

Originally posted by slightlybent47
One thing wrong with a lot of sports and I guess racing is no deferent.
Once a athlete or rider makes it to the big time they think that they deserve all this big money and that there entitled to it.
If it is a business then it should be treated as one and yes you should be able to make a living doing it but you are not entitled to the big bonus money until you perform at a given level.
Ball players are the worst, they want big bonus money just to sine up on the primes that they will do will. And now it seems that CEO’s are doing it as well, when the banks failed and we bailed them out, the CEO’s still got there bonus money even though there company failed.
It’s all coming down to greed these days, everywhere you turn everyone wants there money before they earn it.

how would you feel if your boss gave you a raise the hard times hit and he said..uhh im gonna need that back, would you say oh hell i was only make 60k heres 5k of my yearly pay back...or would you feel a bit sore over it?

[SRH]

Originally posted by jrspawn
"if your not making a paycheck why take it seriously" my point exactly, but again those of you who were in the scene/nationals before the big 4 really got in, dont realize what nationals were really like back then. It WAS all about fun, and not about paychecks.

Justin


i was there in early 00's it was fun....but about as prestigous as lawn mower racing

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by SRH
i was there in early 00's it was fun....but about as prestigous as lawn mower racing

If people/racers are looking for prestigious racing, you might want to consider other things than ATV racing.

Again, the politics and companies have built sooo much hype around racing when the getting was good for a couple years. And now that things are not as good, so many think its like the end of ATV racing. Like its been posted, go back years ago and see what racing was like then. Good times and good races without all the BS involved these days. Everything has its ups and downs with the times.....

Justin

[SRH]

Originally posted by jrspawn
If people/racers are looking for prestigious racing, you might want to consider other things than ATV racing.

Again, the politics and companies have built sooo much hype around racing when the getting was good for a couple years. And now that things are not as good, so many think its like the end of ATV racing. Like its been posted, go back years ago and see what racing was like then. Good times and good races without all the BS involved these days. Everything has its ups and downs with the times.....

Justin

alot of companies that were there for us then and helped the sport got **** on too when the 450s came out

[Pappy]

It's simple economics. If the economy hadn't failed, we would probably have another record year at the nationals....infact many races this season have been better then last year so thats a positive.

Good economy = support from the industry/private companies and growth. The big question would be growth for whom? We have seen the Pro racers salaries go from virtually nothing to 6 figures but I think next season they will all get a big cut, and a very limited line of support. When Gust got the axe it spoke volumes to a few of us. You cant blame a company for cutting back when supporting a venture (racing or otherwise) that is forced to drop advertising/promotion when their sales do not support further growth or doesnt promote the sale of their product. So if the main line of support fails the racing scene then I say thanks for what you have done and hopefully they will return when things get better, the same way I feel when a team or riders in general have to cut their programs due to lack of funds. We are facing the worst economy since the great depression and yet we still have a valid series or two across the country, the same ones we have had for many years. I wish them luck.

I see contingency money available to many classes that is helping those that can win and get at it. I fore see more of this in the next few years with limited support at the higher levels. The amatuer ranks will rise and fall as the extra cash racing requires cycles.....same as it has always done.

Regional series will IMO fair the best in the coming years. The larger supporters can spread around the dollars they have available which will benefit the series and its racers. Look no further then the NEATV for whats ahead for those promoters who can properly manage and run a solid regional series.

Local level racing may grow as track owners look to add more entries at the races they hold which shoud mean a few more ATV events that were lost. (Im sure everyone here knows a track or two that gave quads the boot when cash was flowing and they catered to the bikes)

My biggest concern isnt with the factories, they will do what they do that serves their best interests. I look hard at the bread and butter of our sport and hope that they can muster some support through various means to continue to prosper and benefit from good business as well as fill the gaps left when the big support rolls out(again, who is benefiting from this big support?)

That brings me back to the "who is getting paid" out of all this. If the factories drop their Pro support that really doesnt affect the average racer filling the gates. They will race regardless if there are 10 Pro's on the gate or 20. Its a given that filling the stands with spectators for our sport isnt happening anytime soon. I think the WPSA had the right idea with a much broader based carnival type atmosphere that would be a draw for those outside the sport.....but they went belly up....and i'm pretty sure there isnt anyone waiting in the wings to fund another National level series unless a group of financiers can be gathered to do what needs to be done. Even then, you are trying to start up a series in the midst of one crappy ecomomy, smart money moves ahead while scared money runs and hides.

So for the average racer, I wouldnt look for any big changes to any level below A class in most any major series. Pro and Pro AM will fend for themselves as they always have. I feel there needs to be some unity however and if tightening the belts is needed then do it, but I also feel the series need to get proactive and provide a much higher level of service to the racers, teams and supporters of their respective series. We expect the most for our dollar regardless of who is taking it and if you feel your dollar isnt being spent wisely then find another venue, I know I do:p

Just some thoughts....just keep an open mind and look at ways to make things better. Sometimes growth isnt always the best avenue!

[slightlybent47]

Originally posted by SRH
how would you feel if your boss gave you a raise the hard times hit and he said..uhh im gonna need that back, would you say oh hell i was only make 60k heres 5k of my yearly pay back...or would you feel a bit sore over it?


That’s the problem a company shouldn’t have given me a raise if I didn’t erne it. If I did erne it and I could show I had a positive gain in erneing revenue for the company then the first cuts should come from those that didn’t perform as well. If those cuts are not going to be enough, then I would have to evaluate my roll and what I could do to help save money. I also would have to evaluate what the market would be in my field is and if someone else would value my performance.
Many other factors come into play here as well but the bottom line is, your bonus should reflect your job performance and not your reputation.
Say I worked for someone and made them lots of money and you want to hire me, the bonus that you offer me to come aboard should only be given if I do as well or better for you as I did for the other company.

The problem lies in giving me a bonus before I show you I can do the same for you as I did for them. If you give me a fifty million dollar sine up bonus, that I can keep regardless if I do well, then why should I work so hard, I already have my money.

[SRH]

you got a very good point but the corporate business model is a user, they use, raise morale for what they need then kick you to the curb, greed runs business and business exists because of greed

[TNT]

Go look @ mx national results and how many are chasing points in Production A and B. I did 2008-2010 and see about the same #’s, no growth! That should be a good indicator of the market….Again, something’s wrong and it does not appear to be the economy, 2008 just as bad as 2009/2010, and if I looked back little further still little to zip! Look at most local and regional series over the past five years as a whole you will find the same, slow to no growth.

What good is a national champ if only 1/4 - 1/3 of the population can afford to compete?

I still revert back to the infrastructure being broke, no solid business model no effort to grow the sport just reap short term gains, that has been going on for decades. IMO theres no sugar coating it, it will sink itself if it continues.

[Sjorge450R]

for me, it has gone down hill. Not by choice though. I really miss ripping on my 450 but its just too damn expensive. thats why i got into mountain biking. No parts to buy every weekend, no 200mi road trips to go ride and it doesnt cost me anything to just go out and ride.

Needless to say, my R is still in my garage in great shape, just waiting to be ridden.

[Dan_Guetter]

Future of ATV Racing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

[woodsracer144]

Originally posted by mayno323
Just wondering what you people think of the situation? Seems to me 5 years ago the local quad series and nationals had way more riders. Maybe its just the whole economy thing.

Where are you in WI, what are you all running?

[TNT]

I would wonder if putting more restrictions on Production class to support the “race ready quad” would help?...maybe more Stock classes especially given the fact that so much travel money is need w/ 11 nats in MX for example. Reason I say this is because rich people get into this sport and hurt it, take the race ready quad off the show room floor add $1,000’s to it to a point where now we are seeing a small rich elete group at the top of the A-B-Pro-am classes with pro-built quads, not all but the majority have to go far beyond the stock to compete. This would make the Production classes more of even affordable "stock" playing field, might promote growth and show the true talent of the racer vs how much money they or their parents got in their wallets, or help. I’d imagine the same holds true for youth and mini-classes.

One problem with this which has already occurred with the debut of the race ready quad is the impact on after market companies, taking their business and moving it to the OEM assembly line saves the racer money up front, but may hurt in the after-market, especially if we only have one choice but to got to the dealer for parts…..you know how that is if you have to go the dealer on your car.

Thoughts?

[yellowzo3]

Originally posted by TNT
I would wonder if putting more restrictions on Production class to support the “race ready quad” would help?...maybe more Stock classes especially given the fact that so much travel money is need w/ 11 nats in MX for example. Reason I say this is because rich people get into this sport and hurt it, take the race ready quad off the show room floor add $1,000’s to it to a point where now we are seeing a small rich elete group at the top of the A-B-Pro-am classes with pro-built quads, not all but the majority have to go far beyond the stock to compete. This would make the Production classes more of even affordable "stock" playing field, might promote growth and show the true talent of the racer vs how much money they or their parents got in their wallets, or help. I’d imagine the same holds true for youth and mini-classes.

One problem with this which has already occurred with the debut of the race ready quad is the impact on after market companies, taking their business and moving it to the OEM assembly line saves the racer money up front, but may hurt in the after-market, especially if we only have one choice but to got to the dealer for parts…..you know how that is if you have to go the dealer on your car.

Thoughts?

Very good points, and like you said, it would help reveal who's got true talent and who's parents basically paid their way up the ranks.

But aftermarket parts for quads are overpriced, and I think companies hurt themselves in that aspect. $900 for a-arms? The new Axis shocks are $1700... This is the kind of crap that seals the deal as far as killing the sport goes. You can't even be competitive in B class anymore without that stuff. Parts for quads are getting more expensive while the reward for winning or going pro steadily diminishes. Makes no sense. You can buy parts for cars for less than the same parts for a quad cost. IMO it was a good idea to make quads more race ready from the factory... Aftermarket companies will just have to adapt and lower their prices to more sane levels. Yes, I understand there is not as much of a demand for quad parts, so many are probably made by hand or prices have to be raised in order to pay for R&D or special tooling, but honestly, a set of a-arms probably costs them $350 max to make... You can't try and sell them for $900 and think everything's fine and dandy. That right there is only helping the rich get better and hurting the average joe. I do hate to read on here when yet another company shuts their doors, but a few companies in the atv industry have horrible business practices and through the roof prices and its bound to happen sooner or later.

Edit*- To give you an idea of how overpriced quad parts are we'll compare shocks.

The new Axis shocks are $1700. The Fox shocks are $1500. We all know about them and how big they are, etc...

Now some of the BEST shocks you can buy for a sand rail or prerunner are these:

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/images/D/2.0-2.5-3.0-PureRace-Bypass-PB-400.jpg

They're King 4.0 Triple Bypass Race series shocks. The shocks are 4ft long btw, so they're huge. To buy this shock with 18'' of travel its $1900. Only $200 more than the Axis shock, and this is one of the best shocks King offers. You can buy really nice shocks from King for as low as $500.

Here's a pic of them on a sand rail:

http://www.duneguide.com/images/SSSS2005/SSSS2005-MonsterRails-1.jpg

And those huge coilover shocks are only about $500. To compare, triple rate Elka shocks with no reservior and no adjustment are $500.

[criminalpoet]

LOL! I see a lot of people talking about how this sport will come back when and if the economy gets better. Fact of the matter is, the economy is not going to get better! With a national debt of 13 trillon, a healthcare plan that is going to cost billions more than they thought yearly, and a jobless society thats supposed to pay for all of the brilliant ideas that our socialist president has, people its not going to come back...

What you see here is America as a country going through a negative evolutionary period... Right now we are on track for repeating our history of the 1930's.... I truely believe that we are headed for harder times way before better ones.. All I can say is enjoy whats left of the normality of your lives now while you still have it... Enjoy what you have to the fullest and dont worry about quad racing as a sport, just get out there and ride!

[jjv101]

Originally posted by criminalpoet
LOL! I see a lot of people talking about how this sport will come back when and if the economy gets better. Fact of the matter is, the economy is not going to get better! With a national debt of 13 trillon, a healthcare plan that is going to cost billions more than they thought yearly, and a jobless society thats supposed to pay for all of the brilliant ideas that our socialist president has, people its not going to come back...

What you see here is America as a country going through a negative evolutionary period... Right now we are on track for repeating our history of the 1930's.... I truely believe that we are headed for harder times way before better ones.. All I can say is enjoy whats left of the normality of your lives now while you still have it... Enjoy what you have to the fullest and dont worry about quad racing as a sport, just get out there and ride!

thank you someone that agree that it will take more than a few years to get things back in line again. for example im considering switching my major due to the way the economy, but every including my parents say when you get out (3-4 years...btw im a soph in college now) things will be better and different...yeh i doubt that, sure im in for Criminal Justice now, but they pay is ****ty right now, and everyones getting laid off there too...


everyone has their points though!

[SRH]

Originally posted by Dan_Guetter
Future of ATV Racing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A


lmao