Going To Court Tomorrow. (TRX 250R related)

[Saul76]

Back in Feb I was involved in a high speed chase with police that ended with me flipping my quad, getting arrested and having my quad seized.

It's been set over a few times now and tomorrow court finally goes ahead.

My lawyer plea bargained for a lighter sentence - the prosecuter came back with this.

I plead guilty to flight from police and

1. they drop no registration, no insurance and driving in an unapproved area charges.

2. I get a minimum of 2000 dollar fine. Minimum, max is 500. Ugh.

3. They ask for forfeiture of the TRX 250R.

4. They ask for 12 months probation.

5. They ask for 12 months suspended driving licence.

Tomorrow is going to be nothing short of an awful day for me if convicted and nailed with the maximum punishment as listed above.

I'm not overly religious - but - if any of you would say a prayer for a fellow 250R fanatic I'd appreciate it.

I'll let you all know how this plays out after court tomorrow.

p.s. - I'm 34 with two small children, I am the only licensed driver in our household and it is very, VERY important to both our private life and my work. (auto body technician) I am pretty concerned.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/popotookmyquad.jpg

[bubsyfz450]

shouldnt of ran from the cops, when i first started reading it, i thought it was a younger kid. not a 34 year old with 2 kids running from the cops.... not smart in my opinion!

[stoopidbot]

Agreed, I wish you all the luck but that was a pretty foolish move. Especially with you being the only driver in your family...

Good luck to you

[derekhonda]

No offense, but it doesn't really sound like your lawyer is working that hard for you.

Unless the original punishment could have been like 1-3 years in jail, you aren't getting much of a plea bargain.

I would really push that you are fine with the probation, would even go for 2 years probation but you need your license for work purposes and forfeiture of the quad sounds unneccesary along with a fine, kinda a one or the other deal.

[J.Brown121]

If you wouldn't have run from the cops, then you wouldn't have any issues:rolleyes: Maybe you'll be more responsible next time...

[Ruf Racing]

Good luck! But this is why, you should never run from the law. If you get away, that's a feather in your cap. If you don't, these are the consequences. Just a side note, why couldn't this post have been moved to the lounge, without the BS mod involvement. :confused:

[Canadian144]

Good luck. But you deserve whatever you get...

[bens250ex]

just let us know where the quad will be up for auction so someone can maybe scoop it up. good luck though

[Chino]

You deserve it, live and learn. Don't be stupid.

[smr]

Yall are being hard on the man....I to have to agree on the running from the law. It's not a smart thing to do.

by your post it sounds like you learned your lesson, however...I have to ask. Is this your first runin with the law. I people that have gotten cought before and still got no where near what you got.

Good luck in court.

[DnB_racing]

I have a hard time believing all the people that are giving you a hard time for running from cops, are all of you saying that you have never went back in the woods when you saw the law? BS we all try to avoid the law. anyone that says different must have some nice riding spots, there arnt enough legal spots to ride and that crates the problem. Places we used to be able to ride legally are all being closed and its forcing us to do things like run from cops!!!! ITS NOT HIS FAULT! its the tree huggers and damn spotted salamanders

[All250R]

What placed this thread (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=442316) in the open section is due to a protest about it originally being deleted from the TRX forum. Since that thread is locked with the moderator's (Scro) comment as the final word again, because I feel the moderator is disrespecting exrider's contributing members, I'm compelled to point out a couple facts.

First, I don't like to bash other people creating space online for 2strokes and 250R riders and loyalists however the moderator claimed he deleted the thread because it was too general for the forum. The argument is not credible/believable but instead demonstrates contempt for Saul and other contributing members:
*Other threads are currently in the section such as What hauls your baby? and hasn't been locked or deleted.
*He could have originally moved the thread but instead locked it, but not before he added his own content (Scro) to the thread (his judgement of Saul's actions) and THEN prevented anyone else from commenting.
*No matter how off content, he had no reason to completely delete the thread(s).

All of this displays the moderator's and for allowing the moderator to stay a moderator, the board's lack of respect for contributing members' content that makes their message board have value for people to log in and ultimately to their paid advertisers.

[feuerstack411]

What state is this so I can be sure to never live there

[Ichoptop]

yeah, DNB push the blame on someone else. I hope your joking. A simple ticket for riding somewhere you shouldnt is a minimal fine. When you evade the police you just went from a simple mail in ticket to jail time where I come from.


as for Saul76. Your 34 years old. You made a bad choice and you have to deal with it. You broke the law and will serve your punishment. Unfortunatly, you have a family so now they will also have to pay for your bad choice.

with that, I also have ran from the cops on a dirtbike...the difference was I was 12 years old. I got caught, had my bike taken and since I didnt have any money at 12...spent the next 8 months doing community service every weekend.

[feuerstack411]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
I have a hard time believing all the people that are giving you a hard time for running from cops, are all of you saying that you have never went back in the woods when you saw the law? BS we all try to avoid the law. anyone that says different must have some nice riding spots, there arnt enough legal spots to ride and that crates the problem. Places we used to be able to ride legally are all being closed and its forcing us to do things like run from cops!!!! ITS NOT HIS FAULT! its the tree huggers and damn spotted salamanders

I also sincerely hope this is sarcasm.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by feuerstack411
I also sincerely hope this is sarcasm.
to some extent of course its sarcasm!
but my point is if there were more legal places to ride then there would be no reason to run

[Guy400]

Originally posted by All250R
What placed this thread (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=442316) in the open section is due to a protest about it originally being deleted from the TRX forum. Since that thread is locked with the moderator's (Scro) comment as the final word again, because I feel the moderator is disrespecting exrider's contributing members, I'm compelled to point out a couple facts.

First, I don't like to bash other people creating space online for 2strokes and 250R riders and loyalists however the moderator claimed he deleted the thread because it was too general for the forum. The argument is not credible/believable but instead demonstrates contempt for Saul and other contributing members:
*Other threads are currently in the section such as What hauls your baby? and hasn't been locked or deleted.
*He could have originally moved the thread but instead locked it, but not before he added his own content (Scro) to the thread (his judgement of Saul's actions) and THEN prevented anyone else from commenting.
*No matter how off content, he had no reason to completely delete the thread(s).

All of this displays the moderator's and for allowing the moderator to stay a moderator, the board's lack of respect for contributing members' content that makes their message board have value for people to log in and ultimately to their paid advertisers. Little extreme here to say the least. One thing you're forgetting. We, the moderators, are human and as such are open for mistakes. Sometimes we make them, period. But at the same time nowhere does this site guarantee 100% trouble-free membership. There's going to be things you don't agree with from time-to-time, get over it. It's not a matter of contempt for anyone personally or this site's lack of respect of the community. If you feel that strongly you're here at will, you can leave and start your own board but you'll find out in a hurry that you can't make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. To the point of why one thread was locked while others remain open. I can tell you that nobody reported the "What hauls your baby" thread so it quite simply could've been missed. The moderators don't have the time to read through the tens of thousands of open threads and catch every infraction. We all have families and full-time jobs and are here on a voluntary basis when our schedule allows. We aren't paid. I'm sorry you feel there's been an injustice but I can assure you the intentions were good and were not meant to insult anyone. If you'd like I could take a look at the 250R Section and lock every off-topic thread if you feel that will help with this situation.

[troybilt]

"He who is without SIN may cast the first stone."

Best of luck to you Saul, you may get the "bonehead award", but I still hope the best for you and your family. Glad no one was was hurt... 250r's can always be rebuild, keep your chin up.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by Ichoptop
yeah, DNB push the blame on someone else. I hope your joking. A simple ticket for riding somewhere you shouldnt is a minimal fine. When you evade the police you just went from a simple mail in ticket to jail time where I come from.


as for Saul76. Your 34 years old. You made a bad choice and you have to deal with it. You broke the law and will serve your punishment. Unfortunatly, you have a family so now they will also have to pay for your bad choice.

with that, I also have ran from the cops on a dirtbike...the difference was I was 12 years old. I got caught, had my bike taken and since I didnt have any money at 12...spent the next 8 months doing community service every weekend.

Im not sure if im joking or being sarcastic: I think its bitterness towards the local authorities, The short story is, me and my son were out riding in woods i grew up riding legally,2 years ago they closed the woods for some bugs that feed spotted salamanders! I know that I was trespassing (now) I spotted a environmental police also (state cop), Trying to show my son that its best to face them and show my son that cops arnt just bad guys. Biggg mistake we stoped and waited for him, he towed both quads cost me $1800 and 3 weeks to get the quads back!not the leason to show a 12 year old, I dont think he will ever want to see a cop in the woods again!!

[All250R]

Originally posted by Guy400
Little extreme here to say the least. One thing you're forgetting. We, the moderators, are human and as such are open for mistakes. Sometimes we make them, period. But at the same time nowhere does this site guarantee 100% trouble-free membership. There's going to be things you don't agree with from time-to-time, get over it. It's not a matter of contempt for anyone personally or this site's lack of respect of the community. If you feel that strongly you're here at will, you can leave and start your own board but you'll find out in a hurry that you can't make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. To the point of why one thread was locked while others remain open. I can tell you that nobody reported the "What hauls your baby" thread so it quite simply could've been missed. The moderators don't have the time to read through the tens of thousands of open threads and catch every infraction. We all have families and full-time jobs and are here on a voluntary basis when our schedule allows. We aren't paid. I'm sorry you feel there's been an injustice but I can assure you the intentions were good and were not meant to insult anyone. If you'd like I could take a look at the 250R Section and lock every off-topic thread if you feel that will help with this situation.

I do have a message board. It's advertisement free and states up front that it values members' content as the driving reason for any value the board ever has. I don't contribute here to help exriders make money. I contribute here to help owners of 2strokes. My point then is that moderators on a board that makes money from its members should have respect for its members held at a premium. If the owners want to have lax policies then they should expect people to feel annoyed and say something about it, and certainly should not be asked to conveniently get over it.

Lock and delete all the threads. It's the content and conversation on the board that people log in here for on a daily basis to view the flashing banners, and not for any other reason.

[Scro]

Originally posted by All250R
What placed this thread (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=442316) in the open section is due to a protest about it originally being deleted from the TRX forum. Since that thread is locked with the moderator's (Scro) comment as the final word again, because I feel the moderator is disrespecting exrider's contributing members, I'm compelled to point out a couple facts.

First, I don't like to bash other people creating space online for 2strokes and 250R riders and loyalists however the moderator claimed he deleted the thread because it was too general for the forum. The argument is not credible/believable but instead demonstrates contempt for Saul and other contributing members:
*Other threads are currently in the section such as What hauls your baby? and hasn't been locked or deleted.
*He could have originally moved the thread but instead locked it, but not before he added his own content (Scro) to the thread (his judgement of Saul's actions) and THEN prevented anyone else from commenting.
*No matter how off content, he had no reason to completely delete the thread(s).

All of this displays the moderator's and for allowing the moderator to stay a moderator, the board's lack of respect for contributing members' content that makes their message board have value for people to log in and ultimately to their paid advertisers.

I'll admit that the situation wasn't handled in the best manor. I should have just simply moved the thread to begin with. It was not my intentions to seem dictorial, as some of you have put. In the 7 years that I have been here, most threads of this nature turn south quick and are closed down anyway, for whatever reason. I figured I would nip this one in the bud. Everybody is going to make mistakes, and I'll take credit for this one.

[Guy400]

Originally posted by All250R
I do have a message board. It's advertisement free and states up front that it values members' content as the driving reason for any value the board ever has. I don't contribute here to help exriders make money. I contribute here to help owners of 2strokes. My point then is that moderators on a board that makes money from its members should have respect for its members held at a premium. If the owners want to have lax policies then they should expect people to feel annoyed and say something about it, and certainly should not be asked to conveniently get over it.

Lock and delete all the threads. It's the content and conversation on the board that people log in here for on a daily basis to view the flashing banners, and not for any other reason. You seem to be confusing an admitted mistake with an overarching lack of respect of our members when, in fact, they're separate issues. We value every member's contribution to this site but the fact remains that moderators are going to have errs in judgement occasionally. This doesn't mean we don't respect our members and there's some conspicuous instruction to the moderators to act as such. We're human, we make mistakes and ask the members to understand that. There's nothing more that can be asked of us. Scro stated he could've handled the situation differently in hindsight.

I have a 6 and a 4 year old and sometimes I make a mistake as a parent. That does not mean I don't respect my children and should be removed from my family unit. I explain to my children the situation and learn from that mistake. That's all we're asking for here.

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by Scro
I'll admit that the situation wasn't handled in the best manor. I should have just simply moved the thread to begin with. Everybody is going to make mistakes, and I'll take credit for this one.

:) That's all I wanted to hear. ;)

[DnB_racing]

ya everyone has there moments!

Just a guess Scro were you a hall monitor in high school?LOL

[slightlybent47]

Well he said he ran so I assume that it was a blatant run and not something else.
Without knowing the whole story it’s hard to say how bad the mistake was.
What I mean is if he was riding on some trails where he wasn’t supposed to be and he didn’t really see the cop right away when he tried to stop him and the cop added the extra charge just to be an ***, then maybe he got shafted.
But if he knew he was running then that’s another story and you get what you get.

And it doesn’t sound like the lawyer is very good, maybe the lawyer was court appointed.

[dpizz450]

I know it's kinda late now, but I would have looked for a better lawyer. That does not sound like much of a plea bargain. Suspended license for 12 months and forfeit of the quad? I dont think so. I would NOT accept that. Tell your lawyer that is absolutely unacceptable. Maybe lots of probation, community service, and fines would be acceptable. If you don't mind me asking, how is your record prior to this? You don't have to tell me, just say good or bad.

[stoopidbot]

Originally posted by dpizz450
I know it's kinda late now, but I would have looked for a better lawyer. That does not sound like much of a plea bargain. Suspended license for 12 months and forfeit of the quad? I dont think so. I would NOT accept that. Tell your lawyer that is absolutely unacceptable. Maybe lots of probation, community service, and fines would be acceptable. If you don't mind me asking, how is your record prior to this? You don't have to tell me, just say good or bad.

Why would he not lose the quad, if you run from the police in your car, you lose it...

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by slightlybent47
Well he said he ran so I assume that it was a blatant run and not something else.
Without knowing the whole story it’s hard to say how bad the mistake was.
What I mean is if he was riding on some trails where he wasn’t supposed to be and he didn’t really see the cop right away when he tried to stop him and the cop added the extra charge just to be an ***, then maybe he got shafted.
But if he knew he was running then that’s another story and you get what you get.

And it doesn’t sound like the lawyer is very good, maybe the lawyer was court appointed.


thats what I have for a question also

was it an OJ simpson style chase or was it oops theres a cop we better go this way?

[chucked]

Was this on a public road? You said it was a high speed chase, and you crashed. What if you hit and killed a pedestrian? I think the punishment is serving. And I don't ride the roads, unless I'm at hatfield-mccoy or another park where it is legal.

[dpizz450]

Originally posted by stoopidbot
Why would he not lose the quad, if you run from the police in your car, you lose it...

Not where I'm from you don't. But I suppose it's different everywhere.

[CJM]

Way it goes, face consequences and live with it.

I got nailed 3 months ago on land that EVERYONE rides on. Not sure how they got me and my buddy but they did. We didnt run, had a trailer and 2 quads so we gave up, played sheeplish and got socked with 150 bucks worth of fines and that was him being nice.

I only ride in legal places now if I canhelp it, sadly it has less to do with safety and more to do with revenue.

[dns1764]

you have to make judgements on to run or not. here is what i go by
if the pd is in the wood

[dns1764]

^^^ sorry about that...fat fingers

but anyway i just go by this
pd on a quad in the woods close by...stop
pd on a quad in the woods far away...run
if in a pickup...duck into the trees and get out of there

[rbgnwa45]

You were given those charges because you're old, they expect you to have watched COPS a few times.

I don't agree with taking the quad, not with a $2000 fine, probation, and no licence, that's too many charges. A fine and probation is enough, and that's a hefty fine at that. I'd say $1000 MAX would be enough.

A high-speed chase on a public road is wrong, someone could have been hurt.

How did you not get away? Why didn't you flip it over and keep going? How fast were you going when you crashed, what happened there? Damage?

I'd run if there was a direct route from a forest to my house. There's no point in getting slapped with fines when you've been doing the same thing for years.

The problem is that cops think they know best, they're "just doing their job". I hate that SO much. I'll be the sole judge of safety thanks.

[quadrcr161]

does anyone have the link to the orginal story?

theres a lot of things in this thread thats just wrong. how are some people coming in here defending him when his actions are some of the worst for the atv community. for one, he said he ran from the cops in a high speed chase, then he said he is 34, he should know better, and like someone else said this prob isnt his 1st run in with the law. also he said he had kids, are they his? very nice parenting actions though. one last thing if he is the only licensed driver in the house what about his wife or g/f? the whole situation seems shady and i personally hope he gets popped with everything they can hit him with and his r is auctioned off to someone thats more responsible.

[fastredrider44]

For the life of me I can't figure out why people are giving scenerios for running or not. I learned a few years ago that if I play by the rules, I don't have anything to worry about. That's not me on a soapbox preaching, that's me here to tell you that community service for muddin in the lake flats sucks.

[Guy400]

From what I gathered from another thread he was riding illegally on a public road. Cops saw him and attempted to stop him. He decided to try and outrun them and was 6th gear pinned and wrecked it. Cops then caught him.

It's never OK to run, period. If you're not doing anything wrong then there's no reason to flee. If you are doing something wrong than you have to face the music.

For everyone that supports him fleeing from the cops if someone gets pulled over in a car for speeding would you advocate attempting to run from them driving the car as fast as it will go in the process?

[Saul76]

So many heated opinions! I don't blame anyone for feeling one way or another.

Maybe I ought to further 'elaborate' the story somewhat.

I live in a small rural town - ATV's ride on the roads all the time to get to the nearest approved trail, the 'local' police pretty much turn a blind eye unless you are blatant and ignorant and reckless.

That day I left my house to go to the nearest trail (if you watch my youtube videos you'll better understand how close I am to all of the nearest trails, literally one minute of being on any public road)

Anyways, I pull out of my driveway and head dowen the shoulder of the road - no more than 15 second later I make a left turn and just BARELY caught a glimpse of a Police Jeep out of the corner of my eye, no flashing lights, no sirens, just a 'strange' Police Jeep NOT local .... so not chancing anything I duck out behind the road and onto an unpaved road that is abandoned with one summer home (the only reason why the road is still deemed 'public' in town) this is a stretch of road that takes about 30 seconds to travel at near WOT - at the end of the road you hit Sallys Rock Trail system (also on my youtube videos)

I blast down this unpaved road and never once look back and at this time I don't know if the cops are tailing me or not. At the end of the road (literally!) I hot a snow drift and flipped the quad. By the time I regain my senses and get up and walk over to the ovedr turned quad the police are behind me telling me to stop. Which I do.

I give my statement, quad gets hauled away and has sat in police impoundment ever since as I await trial.

I had trial today and it was set over once again to the 28th. My lawyer (paid lawyer, not court appointed) would not let me enter a guilty plea as she is flipping angry with the crown prosecuter and worked again this morning to make a more fair plea bargain. As of now we may have something more favorable - I'll plead guilty to the ATV charges (unregistered atv, no insurance, unapproved area) but they drop the flight charge or at least not seek the suspended driving licence as it would interfere in a severe way with my and my families livliehood.

We'll see if the crown holds up their word on the 28th.

Directly thereafter I'll have the full video of this incident as I was filming with my gopro HD helmet cam - facing backwards!

Had my bike been registered (which I was in the process of doing and now have her registered) I woulda just stopped when I got a glimpse of the Jeep and just played it out to see if they woulda passed me by or stopped. But with no registration I just carried on my merry way as I would have had I not 'seen' them.

Bear in mind - I had no idea they were actually chasing me until I flipped.

But I am not making excuses here - just telling the full story. I just asked for prayers, not pity or sympthaty.

Anyone who's seen my videos will see A. how small my town is and B. how close I am in every direction to many trails. I don't ride roads for fun and terrorize little old ladies with my big bad 250R. Geez. LOL!

I certainly didn't try to put my family in a bad position either. I used to risk my life on the ocean 3/4 of the year to support them, now I work 60-70 hours a week in a body shop to do so.

Should I be punished? Yup!

IMHO does the punishment the crown is seeking fit the crime? Nope!

So - there it is.

p.s. - no drugs or alcohol was involved and I was wearing a helmet, gloves and boots IE:safety gear. Which I preach to all 500 members of my own forum @ airfoolers dot com.

But again, I FULLY understand the harshness of some of the replies and accept that with no hard feelings. To those who wish me luck - thank you. I hope you also find luck in any obstacles you have to overcome also.

-Saul

p.p.s - I was told there was question about the quad on the flatbed actually being a 250R? Seriously - where did that come from? No worries, it IS a 250R .. I wish it wasn't mind you - but I can promise you it is. Look close, you'll notice the 4.0gallon oversize tank. Moreover, you can reconize the houses in the pic from multiple videos of mine.


OK, peace all. Respect your ATV laws and your ATV and wear safety gear! (even in the bathroom!)

[Saul76]

@ 2:20 of this video you'll see the exact road I was "chased" down ... only at the time I was "chased" it was snow covered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmmn4HAGlWI

[One_Bad_400]

i have run from the cops probably more times then there are fingers in arkansas. but one time i was being stupid and bearly hid in the woods. cop came back there with guns drawn so i wasnt going to jump back on my quad. they impounded my quad. i had to pay for get my quad out of the impound and for my parents to bail me out of jail. when i went to court the judge said i had been threw enough punishment having to pay to get my quad out. wala, slap on the wrist.

i wish you the best of luck. and hope the judge realized quads are only fun and perfect for running from mean people with loaded guns :D

[trx310R#24]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
quads are only fun and perfect for running from mean people with loaded guns :D

lol! true... good times on highways...

[rbgnwa45]

Whoa... okay, wait a minute... hold on.

You didn't know you were being pursuited - you're guilty of nothing except unregistration, blah blah. MENS REA MTHFKA!!!!!

That's like police showing up at a house that's on fire and the owner is ticketed for not having their dog on a leash :o. You crashed and were cited for fleeing?! You have the proof on your Go Pro, did you hear sirens on the playback or does it show you looking back to see?

There is no crime here :huh.

Best of luck.

[CJM]

Ah ok now the story you tell makes sense.

Did you ever find out who the police jeep was?

I also agree its VERY harsh punishments. If anything you either need a better lawyer or need to do something here-cause that aint right.

[slightlybent47]

Ok I knew there was more to the story, but I can’t help but wonder that the reason you didn’t look back was that you knew that it was possible that he was chasing you and that’s why you were going so fast and plowed into the snow bank.

But on the other hand I am a big fan of the show cop’s and that guy Sheriff John Barnell always exaggerates everything the bad guy is doing and does his best to make it sound bad.

For instance when a cop rams a car that’s running the cop will say that the perp rammed him, and that’s clearly not what happened, or he will say that he came dangerously close to on coming traffic when in fact if you watch he is no closer then anyone would be when there just driving down the road. Or they will say he could have ran over a child when it 3:00 am in the morning and there clearly no kids out at that time of the night.

They will pull over someone and get them out of the car and tell them to put there hands up, and the guy does just what he is told, only to have a cop bull dog tackle and slam them to the ground for no reason and when the guy tries to protect himself witch is a very natural thing to do they slap a resisting charge on as well.

Cops don’t always tell the truth, some cops will lie through there teeth if it helps there case.


Was there video of the so called chase? Most cops have a video set up in there patrol cars.
I think it’s possible you got some trumped up charges put on you.

[quadrcr161]

yea when im trying to sneak away or duck down a back road from a parked police car/jeep i always do it pinned wfo.

still seems like more to the story, any priors?

[Drewltr450]

see blue downshift two!.

[CJM]

Wow, that story really, really sucks bent..

I cant elaborate to much what I did to 2 idiot cops after they nailed me with bs cause it was totally illegal-but I can say they were not happy campers.

[slightlybent47]

Damn I miss that car!!:cuss:

[All250R]

Originally posted by fastredrider44
I learned a few years ago that if I play by the rules, I don't have anything to worry about.
My personal cringe with this responsible sounding philosophy is it lets law and its enforcement go unchecked if you just follow every rule set in front of us. Laws are supposed to be the will of the people, but they do historically get biased for special interest etc, and it's up to the people to pay attention when something needs to be amended or is unreasonable. Good lawyers help see this process through.

I personally think the charges are too heavy. They sound more in line with someone who hurt someone during the chase, not just crashed after raising the hair on the neck of the cops who had to put their neck out to deal with it.

2cents.

[slightlybent47]

I’m not trying to bash all cops, most do a great job and are very far.
With the advent of the dash cam it has made it impossible to be forth coming with any statement when pulled over, because everything is being recorded and will be used in court. You have to lawyer up and not say anything that sound like you knew you were doing anything wrong.
Before the dash cam you could be honest with the officer and admit that you may have been speeding a little bit and he may let me go with a warning.

But with the cam going you can’t do that, that’s admitting that you are guilty and your screwed.

[wilkin250r]

Would it have been less if you had been fleeing in a car?

I'm betting you would have gotten resisting arrest, public endangerment, wreckless driving, and who knows what else. The cops don't take to kindly to fleeing, and JUDGES aren't none too happy with it, either.

[fastredrider44]

Originally posted by slightlybent47
If you care to read here is a story for ya!

http://i28.tinypic.com/10yj97d.jpg


Wasnt going to read until I saw the car. Sad story man.

[fastredrider44]

Originally posted by All250R
My personal cringe with this responsible sounding philosophy is it lets law and its enforcement go unchecked if you just follow every rule set in front of us.

I knew someone would use that sentence out of context just as I am doing your right now. Can I pass judgement towards the thread starter? No. Been there done that. His story sounds similiar to one of mine that had a different ending.

The way I see it, he didn't know that he was being chased but wasn't going to chance it and put some distance between him and the officer. I wish him the best of luck in court, as I'm afraid he is liable to be on the recieving end of the long d ck of the law.

However, laws are there for a reason. It's not our decision to break a law and get a good lawyer just because we thing it's not fair. What I can comment on the law enforcement aspect is that there are normal human-being officers and officers that have a chip on their shoulder. That's the way it has been and that's the way it will be. I have met plenty of both kinds, so due to spending over $700 dollars in fines and court fees for speeding ticksts in ONE month, I decided I would be better off to play by the rules (as much as possible). My insurance is outrageous now too by the way. Just because I think I can safely drive 70 in a 55 doesn't mean that I should go unpunished when pulled over.

So the punishment for the thread starter is steep putting it nicely. That doesn't mean that it is a problem with the laws or some of the jerks enforcing it.

[wrekd]

Last time I got chased I just went slow. No reason to risk blowing it up or wrecking at high speed. You're pegged out doing 80 and they're barely on the gas. Cars are always faster but you're on a quad, duck off on the next trail and your home free. Unless they ram you...lol

[stoopidbot]

Originally posted by Saul76
So many heated opinions! I don't blame anyone for feeling one way or another.

Maybe I ought to further 'elaborate' the story somewhat.

I live in a small rural town - ATV's ride on the roads all the time to get to the nearest approved trail, the 'local' police pretty much turn a blind eye unless you are blatant and ignorant and reckless.

That day I left my house to go to the nearest trail (if you watch my youtube videos you'll better understand how close I am to all of the nearest trails, literally one minute of being on any public road)

Anyways, I pull out of my driveway and head dowen the shoulder of the road - no more than 15 second later I make a left turn and just BARELY caught a glimpse of a Police Jeep out of the corner of my eye, no flashing lights, no sirens, just a 'strange' Police Jeep NOT local .... so not chancing anything I duck out behind the road and onto an unpaved road that is abandoned with one summer home (the only reason why the road is still deemed 'public' in town) this is a stretch of road that takes about 30 seconds to travel at near WOT - at the end of the road you hit Sallys Rock Trail system (also on my youtube videos)

I blast down this unpaved road and never once look back and at this time I don't know if the cops are tailing me or not. At the end of the road (literally!) I hot a snow drift and flipped the quad. By the time I regain my senses and get up and walk over to the ovedr turned quad the police are behind me telling me to stop. Which I do.

I give my statement, quad gets hauled away and has sat in police impoundment ever since as I await trial.

I had trial today and it was set over once again to the 28th. My lawyer (paid lawyer, not court appointed) would not let me enter a guilty plea as she is flipping angry with the crown prosecuter and worked again this morning to make a more fair plea bargain. As of now we may have something more favorable - I'll plead guilty to the ATV charges (unregistered atv, no insurance, unapproved area) but they drop the flight charge or at least not seek the suspended driving licence as it would interfere in a severe way with my and my families livliehood.

We'll see if the crown holds up their word on the 28th.

Directly thereafter I'll have the full video of this incident as I was filming with my gopro HD helmet cam - facing backwards!

Had my bike been registered (which I was in the process of doing and now have her registered) I woulda just stopped when I got a glimpse of the Jeep and just played it out to see if they woulda passed me by or stopped. But with no registration I just carried on my merry way as I would have had I not 'seen' them.

Bear in mind - I had no idea they were actually chasing me until I flipped.

But I am not making excuses here - just telling the full story. I just asked for prayers, not pity or sympthaty.

Anyone who's seen my videos will see A. how small my town is and B. how close I am in every direction to many trails. I don't ride roads for fun and terrorize little old ladies with my big bad 250R. Geez. LOL!

I certainly didn't try to put my family in a bad position either. I used to risk my life on the ocean 3/4 of the year to support them, now I work 60-70 hours a week in a body shop to do so.

Should I be punished? Yup!

IMHO does the punishment the crown is seeking fit the crime? Nope!

So - there it is.

p.s. - no drugs or alcohol was involved and I was wearing a helmet, gloves and boots IE:safety gear. Which I preach to all 500 members of my own forum @ airfoolers dot com.

But again, I FULLY understand the harshness of some of the replies and accept that with no hard feelings. To those who wish me luck - thank you. I hope you also find luck in any obstacles you have to overcome also.

-Saul

p.p.s - I was told there was question about the quad on the flatbed actually being a 250R? Seriously - where did that come from? No worries, it IS a 250R .. I wish it wasn't mind you - but I can promise you it is. Look close, you'll notice the 4.0gallon oversize tank. Moreover, you can reconize the houses in the pic from multiple videos of mine.


OK, peace all. Respect your ATV laws and your ATV and wear safety gear! (even in the bathroom!) You say that you didn't know the cops were chasing you, but you saw them and pinned it. You knew you were doing something wrong or you wouldn't have pinned it to get away from them. If you would have kept riding slowly and stopped when they got to you, you would not be in this mess. The Police will charge you with flight because they know if you wouldn't have wrecked you would have continued on...

[Guy400]

And on another site you said you ran from them due to "weekend boredom" so you admit to fleeing in another post on the same subject?

I'm not going to pass judgement on you. You state you know you made a mistake and have to face the consequences. We'd all like leniency in court issues, there's no arguing that.

However, don't come on here claiming you were oblivious to the police chase and are a victim of law enforcement abuse. They can only punish you based on what the law for your crimes allows. If that's seizure of property, fines, community service, etc. than that's what's available to the judge.

[trick450r]

A few years back the police were chasing some kids on quads in connecticut. Long story short one of the kids flipped over and died. Whats the result? Police officer loses his job and police are no longer allowed to pursue OHV's (off highway vehicles) in CT.

With that said i've been pulled over by police on public roads more times than i could count, only one time i wasn't allowed to ride home with no punishment and that was purely because i ran out of gas on the side of the road...

[fastredrider44]

The only thing that bothers me about this story is that the guy had his camera facing backwards on his helmet. Did he plan on running and he is feeding us a line?

[stoopidbot]

Lot's of people face the camera backwards... it's a pretty cool angle

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by fastredrider44
The only thing that bothers me about this story is that the guy had his camera facing backwards on his helmet. Did he plan on running and he is feeding us a line?

Below is a quote from him off another site that he posted on when this first happened:


Took two out of town police on a high speed chase to cure some weekend boredom.


From his other responses in that post, it sure seemed like he planned it, I felt like he was bragging about it.

Doug

[dehner47]

Originally posted by D Bergstrom
From his other responses in that post, it sure seemed like he planned it, I felt like he was bragging about it.

X 2

[rbgnwa45]

"Took two out of town police on a high speed chase to cure some weekend boredom."

Whose boredom, the cops or his?

You could interpret that as "it took two cops to chase me to cure their boredom".

Why would he brag about it? That sounds more like him thinking about why he did it, like an excuse "maybe I was bored".

I don't think he intentionally tried to flee. I think he tried avoiding it, which isn't illegal.

If while driving I pass a cop at 45, then accelerate to 60, without knowing if I'm being pursuited, and I crash, how is that fleeing?

He crashed and was cited because he tried to avoid cops, like a smart person would.

How many of us get nervous when we see cops, even if we're doing nothing wrong?

It's not our fault and it's not theirs. We like to avoid cops because we've all heard stories about them being d!cks.

If your lawyer didn't point all of this out than he/she is a ****ty lawyer. There is no crime here.

Even if he intentionally went riding to get into a cop chase there still is no proof of crime. You can't actually believe he had that in mind, if he did he's a moron with balls.

If the cops wouldn't have chased him he'd of been safer. Nothing would have happened, the world would've continued turning.

Police presence made you wreck, they endangered the public, not you :chinese:.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by rbgnwa45
If your lawyer didn't point all of this out than he/she is a ****ty lawyer. There is no crime here.

Bingo.

This defense has been played many times, and any lawyer worth his salt knows this.

Since it hasn't been mentioned leads me to believe he DID look back, he DID see the cops with the lights on, and he DID continue to flee, thus committing a crime.

I find that a much more likely scenario than the lawyer being incompetent.

[Saul76]

:rolleyes: or maybe :D

eventually I'll have the video of the incident to post and then you all can be the judge.

Another point I need to make - I left my driveway and headed south. I didn't 'pass' the police jeep as it was headed 'north' per say - the police were also travelling 'south' & from the report I read they were 150-200 feet behind me when they saw me.

My direction of travel went like this

I leave my driveway and turn right and head south on the shoulder of the road, I go to take a left, bike skids, I spin it around and take that left - during the 'spin' I BARELY get a glimpse of the police jeep 200 feet behind me, no lights, no sirens.

I then continue on and decide not to chance anything and I take a right, then a left and straight on down the abandoned road until I flip.

The video shows I never look back at the police jeep - I'm obvlious to the fact they are chasing me. I don't even care to look 'behind' me, I have no 'reason' to. I hear no sirens - see no lights.

I accelerate as I normally would on this stretch of road - pinned WOT. Then I hit the snowbank and flip.

Police are there within 10 seconds or so. I'm arrested, quad is impounded.

What I 'said' about the incident the day it happened, on the internet no less, is irrelevant to my case. Meh.

Peoples opinions are what they are. I don't care either way. I just shared my story, the pics and maybe in the future I'll post the video.

Yes, I was wearing a rear facing gopro HD helmet cam. So?

It was just fate I guess that it was on and running. It actually helps my case as it proves that for no more than a millisecond could I have even noticed the police jeep behind me. Couple that with snow conditions, tinted goggles and a helmet? Hmmmmm

But it will be nice to have this video forever. :)

If anyone has any other questions, just ask. Much respect guys!

[DnB_racing]

you dont have to prove anything to anyone here!!!
im sure you would have done things different in hind sight!!
I did stop for environmental cop was polite and cooperated!! and it cost me $1800 and three weeks to get mine and my sons quads back!!
now in my hind site I should have hide from them.
Damned if you do damned if you dont. I sincerely wish you good luck

[Saul76]

Originally posted by DnB_racing

I did stop for environmental cop was polite and cooperated!! and it cost me $1800 and three weeks to get mine and my sons quads back!!

Damned if you do damned if you dont.

:( That plain sucks. But just as you said, damned if you do, damned if you don't.


I sincerely wish you good luck

Thank you.

[TRXman86]

DDDUUUHHHH Ya didn't have anywhere better to ride? Dang. Let's run from the cops since I'm the ONLY one with a license in my home, um... ur wife don't drive? or lost her license also for a bonehoead move? I'm not reading 7 pages of this. Ya do teh crime, ya do the time!!

And NO I have never ran from teh police, when I am getting ready to get stopped an know it, I pull over and wait for them to turn around. Makes things WAY easier when they see your willing to co-opperate.

[honda250xrider]

we all make mistakes.

With that said i would only settle if they would drop all charges and only make you plea guilty to no registration.

Make sure you have an attorney that is willing to take this to trial. Most prosecutors simply do not want to take the case to trail especially if they know it is a weak case.

[Ichoptop]

so the video is the key. Post it.

[honda250xrider]

Originally posted by Ichoptop
so the video is the key. Post it.

most of the time a attorney will advise against posting any evidence until after the trial or pre-trial is over with. Which is more than likely the reason for him not posting the video yet.

[rbgnwa45]

When you cooperate, they don't :o.

[Tommy Warren]

if you've done nothing wrong why doen't you use the video footage for your defence in court? :rolleyes:

[chucked]

I saw "rear facing helmet cam" and immediately thought he did it on purpose, but it went wrong and he wrecked and got busted!

[slightlybent47]

Yeah I was giving him the benefit of the doubt but after reading that he posted on another site and said he ran, and now we find out he had the camera turned around, it’s not looking so good for him any more.

[Black Sheep]

I hope they throw the book at him!!! This guy claims to be some kind of 3wheeler fan, even has his own trike site. He's even proud that they still ride 250R air cooled trikes. :rolleyes:

So what happens....he gets a liquid cooled 4 wheeled 250R and gets chased, crashes, and ultimately gets caught on his new fangled golf cart. :blah:

Serves him right! Had he been on his trike he wouldn't have crashed and this discussion would not be happening :devil:

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by rbgnwa45
You could interpret that as "it took two cops to chase me to cure their boredom".

Why would he brag about it? That sounds more like him thinking about why he did it, like an excuse "maybe I was bored".

I don't think he intentionally tried to flee. I think he tried avoiding it, which isn't illegal.


I just posted one quote, there was a bunch more that lead to me saying what I did.

Of course he treid to run, why else would you be "6th gear pinned" on a road in the middle of town, sure wasn't thinking about safety, he was trying to get away. By his posts on the other site and even some of the stuff he has said here, he knew he was being chased, the only reason they caught him was he crashed.


Originally posted by Saul76
What I 'said' about the incident the day it happened, on the internet no less, is irrelevant to my case. Meh.


So I guess you were just trying to brag a little? Said all that stuff on the other site to make your self look cool? I know when you posted over there there was no story about not knowing you were being followed, sure seemed like you knew what you were doing. There was not one mention of you not knowing the police were behind you untill you crashed. Seems to be you are just trying to cover up the truth now that you know how serious the trouble you are in is. Of course the lawyer is sh***y, hard to defend a guilty person.

Doug

[destey]

This all gets me, there's people out there being robbed, raped, murdered etc and the police are spending thousands to prosecute this guy for doing what... riding down the road. Sure what he did was "wrong" but out of everything illegal what he did was one of the least.

Some perspective is needed by some of the members here. Farmer here with about 300 acres, everybody and their brother rides illegally without permission in our fields and woods. Do I really care? Not really. They stick to the outsides of the fields. I've got about 1000 other things more important to worry about than some kid just having a good time. OP wasn't out throwing molotov cocktails at people porches, wasn't blowing donuts in freshly planted corn fields, was just a citizen out peacefully enjoying himself.

Bicycles, do they register, do they follow the laws? Riding down any road here in VT its like an obstacle course dodging the riders, nearly causing headons at every corner. Did the OP help pay for the roads with the tax in his gasoline?

[Guy400]

Originally posted by destey
This all gets me, there's people out there being robbed, raped, murdered etc and the police are spending thousands to prosecute this guy for doing what... riding down the road. Sure what he did was "wrong" but out of everything illegal what he did was one of the least.

Some perspective is needed by some of the members here. Farmer here with about 300 acres, everybody and their brother rides illegally without permission in our fields and woods. Do I really care? Not really. They stick to the outsides of the fields. I've got about 1000 other things more important to worry about than some kid just having a good time. OP wasn't out throwing molotov cocktails at people porches, wasn't blowing donuts in freshly planted corn fields, was just a citizen out peacefully enjoying himself.

Bicycles, do they register, do they follow the laws? Riding down any road here in VT its like an obstacle course dodging the riders, nearly causing headons at every corner. Did the OP help pay for the roads with the tax in his gasoline? Illegal is illegal. He was caught and has to face the consequences. There's far worse crimes out there but should we turn everyone loose who gets caught stealing from department stores? After all, it's only a $10 shirt and there are rapes and murders happening so I suppose we should turn a blind eye to it. I'm not advocating we create special task forces with exorbitant resources for every menial crime but if you're caught breaking the law than you're caught. End of story.

[quad2xtreme]

I am with a few others...your lawyer isn't working hard enough. I don't want you unemployed and going through work hardship...not for what you did. I am a taxpayer and tired of footing the bill for minor crimes. I am totally comfortable with you paying a fine and even losing you quad but the punishment stops when the taxpayer get punished too for your crime. I am so against jail sentences for most people you just can't imagine. There are such better forms of punishment. I would have your *** working weekends for 3 months doing community service...I mean serious community service.

Anyhow, I can totally see how you got into this situation. Good luck. Play the work card so you don't lose your driver's license.

[destey]

Originally posted by Guy400
Illegal is illegal. He was caught and has to face the consequences. There's far worse crimes out there but should we turn everyone loose who gets caught stealing from department stores?

I think you need to reread my post. "Robbed" is in the first sentence.

I've never seen anyone stop for a full 1 second at a stop sign unless they physically had to because of traffic. So 100% of people are criminals in your book and should be caught and prosecuted.

Same with speeding. Show me a road where everyone goes under the speed limit, as the law requires, and you win the argument. The state I drive around 100% of the people, 95% of the time are breaking the law.

Armchair pundits.

[Guy400]

Originally posted by destey
I think you need to reread my post. "Robbed" is in the first sentence.

I've never seen anyone stop for a full 1 second at a stop sign unless they physically had to because of traffic. So 100% of people are criminals in your book and should be caught and prosecuted.

Same with speeding. Show me a road where everyone goes under the speed limit, as the law requires, and you win the argument. The state I drive around 100% of the people, 95% of the time are breaking the law.

Armchair pundits. No, I'm not saying we need to put law enforcement out to specifically catch everyone breaking every minor crime on the books. What I am saying is that if you are breaking any one of these laws and are caught than you have to accept the punishment doled out. If I roll a stop sign and get a ticket my thought isn't that the cops have better things to do than to harrass me. My thought is that I got snagged doing something I know I shouldn't have done.

[destey]

Originally posted by Guy400
No, I'm not saying we need to put law enforcement out to specifically catch everyone breaking every minor crime on the books. What I am saying is that if you are breaking any one of these laws and are caught than you have to accept the punishment doled out. If I roll a stop sign and get a ticket my thought isn't that the cops have better things to do than to harrass me. My thought is that I got snagged doing something I know I shouldn't have done.

Well I got busted for doing a rolling stop. 3 points on my license, higher insurance, plus the $150 ticket. Then you see everybody, and I mean everybody doing the exact same thing as me, and 90% of them don't drive standards trans where it saves a little clutch to not completely stop.

I'm libertarian, purpose of govt isn't to micromanage our lives, its to keep other countries from invading ours and to keep society from becoming like the LA race riots of the early 90s. Why are motorcycles legal on the road and ATVs aren't? With the accident rate of motorcycles and how inherently dangerous they are, motorcycles should have gotten the 3-wheeler treatment.

But our society is a republic, where the majority gets to pass whatever laws it likes on the minority. As originally designed there were checks on this power, but over the years the bill of rights has been trampled. Even the 14th amendment has been ignored, which was supposed to force the bill of rights on the states as well (BOR doesn't apply to state/local). Well one by one the liberals have "incorporated" some select bill of rights against the states.

[destey]

Who doesn't illegally ride on the roads every now and again?

From mac dizzy 's website (http://www.macdizzy.com/mexico.htm)

The first section of the trip is paved road, if brave enough to risk a ticket. We were. It was over before I remembered doing it. Sixth gear, up against the rev limit - more than 9300 rpm's running 14/36 gears. Top speed about one hundred MPH. It would not go any faster. I remember thinking that a piston traveling at that speed was going up and down at something like one hundred and fifty times per second. The sound the motor was making was beautiful music. The sound that any two stroke enthusiast yearns for.

By saying "risk a ticket" I presume he would stop for a LEO. Which looks to be the difference between this and OP's situation.

I'm surprised they didn't come after you harder, evading a police officer is a felony I think, which means no guns, no voting etc. You lose your citizenship pretty much.

Can't you get out of the evading by saying you didn't see the cop, no blue lights? If I was driving along going 10mph over the speed limit and a cop pulled out behind me and didn't put his blue lights on, I wouldn't pull over and there's no way they could get me on evading because no blue lights. The evading thing is the key and where all the trouble comes. Not a lawyer but if you can beat that the rest isn't legally much.

[meankfx]

Just say you couldn't hear the cops cause your quad was to loud. Its not evading if u didn't know they were behind you.