04 450r rebuild or get 2011 450r

[fast1500]

i need a motor(metal shavings but still rips) shocks need rebuilt, new axle and bearing carrier. rims and tires.... all together it would be $3000 to make it like new. Should i spend that to fix it or should i buy the new 450r?

[BlaineKaiser450]

I'd fix your current bike. The new ones are baisically the same anyways

[reptikes]

Originally posted by BlaineKaiser450
I'd fix your current bike. The new ones are baisically the same anyways

And how would you know anything about the 2011 450r?

Most likely you'll want the new one when its finally unvieled.

[Ruf Racing]

If there really is going to be a new 2011 model! :uhoh:

[fast1500]

yea but if any1 knows of a good motor let me know. yea are for sure gona make a new 450. i just hope it doesnt have the new 400x plastics cause they are ugly..

[BlaineKaiser450]

Originally posted by reptikes
And how would you know anything about the 2011 450r?

Most likely you'll want the new one when its finally unvieled. Sorry for some reason I thought I saw 2010. And no, I won't want the new one because I don't ride quads anymore. In that case, I would wait till you can see if the 2011 is freshened up, and if it is, see which best fits your budget.

[sunco]

Depends where u ride. We do MX so an updated quad is best. Plenty of newer used out there. Just bought the LE 07 450R with all the paint still on it. Has HRC,nerfs & handle bars for 3000 about 2 months ago - thats just like a new bike- just had to switch over all my running gear.

I had the same issue - I have an 07 (Same bike red frame black plastics) the motor blew up - the short story $2500 so it was a no brainer to just buy another quad & put my stuff on it.

Don't over pay & buy new from the dealer - good luck

[fast1500]

yea i dont do to much mx. i just dont like the 06 and up 450rs. i love how long my first gear is on mine. have u had an problems with ur 2007?

[sunco]

I have 3 07's The 2nd one just the starter cultch issue. The 1st one was done by the dealer & the 3rd one is what I'm using now - to soon for a starter clutch issue. Thats it. Just do good maintence & you'll be fine.

[ThePhantomRider]

Originally posted by fast1500
yea but if any1 knows of a good motor let me know. yea are for sure gona make a new 450. i just hope it doesnt have the new 400x plastics cause they are ugly..

It is not styled like the 400ex...all the quads will eventually follow the 450r style like they have done already. 400ex was an easier test for new style since it needed freshening. It also gives them a glimpse into fan reaction to the style.

TPR

[fast1500]

yea i think they should get rid of the 400ex and follow yamaha. wide quad and a skinny quad. i do love the 400ex but its down on power. but i did see one with a turbo whopping 450's on youtube lol. TPR pm me anything u know about the new 450r plz! thanks

[curryd]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
It is not styled like the 400ex...all the quads will eventually follow the 450r style like they have done already. 400ex was an easier test for new style since it needed freshening. It also gives them a glimpse into fan reaction to the style.

TPR


Go with a rebuild. Honda hasn't came out with any info or anything. Just building hype as of right now. ThePhantomRider says its awesome, but in the mean time, what are you going to ride? It could be this fall or maybe never. Manufacturers are cutting back on development and production of machines with the economy the way it is. Definitely go with the rebuild.

[ThePhantomRider]

450 is done, just waiting to see where supplies of existing 450's are when Honda does their releases. If the numbers bear out they will then release information on the new 450.

IMO they should get rid of the 300ex. Keep the 250 and 400.


TPR

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by fast1500
yea i think they should get rid of the 400ex and follow yamaha. wide quad and a skinny quad. i do love the 400ex but its down on power. but i did see one with a turbo whopping 450's on youtube lol. TPR pm me anything u know about the new 450r plz! thanks

I agree and disagree...

Yamaha was behind, and kind of knocked it out of the park in a way on the YFZ... and then again part-way with the Raptor 660R, which they really improved to the 700R.

And then came the YFZ450R, good for the MX track and guys who wanted EFI, etc...

But I think they screwed up the YFZ with the 450X deal and went all wrong about it.......


I can totally see an MX machine and an XC machine.... and I can see them sharing much the same of an engine, same frame, same swinger, same body work, etc....

But they need to make a "REAL" 450cc XC machine... somebody does...



Honda could do it... I've seen it done on a 450R... rode it...

In my eyes and in the eyes of many trail and XC guys, in order to make it a real XC 450.... it can't loose all the bottom end grunt the 400EX has.... that stall resistance....

If they would do that, they could eliminate the 400EX.

I'd say it would need a heavy flywheel, a good woods cam setup... probably a carburetor... reverse... and a good internal or external gearing setup for woods.... and standard width...

Then the MX version could come with the little tires, wide width, really light flywheel, a top end cam setup, tall gearing, etc....


I just think you gotta do more than change the axle and a-arms if you are going to make 2 versions.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by fast1500
i need a motor(metal shavings but still rips) shocks need rebuilt, new axle and bearing carrier. rims and tires.... all together it would be $3000 to make it like new. Should i spend that to fix it or should i buy the new 450r?

deffinatly rebuild it will be a lot less than 3000


New main bearings and gasket and seals is less than 250

axel you could get a good used for around 100


good tires and rims ebay 300

if you tried to save money and bought used stuff, and do motor work yourself, it would only cost about 1000 with oil, filter, new bushings.new grips, graghics, and motor parts, and youd have a quad that you could be proud to say you did yourself!

[MtnEX]

And I would rebuild honestly....

Not that I would really want to....

But I think some of you guys are "off" for wanting a brand new first year model, fuel injection and all of that.

If you all wanted an aluminum frame, fuel injection and all of that.... well you should have jumped ship years ago and went on over to Kawasaki. It handles way better anyways...

I made the change and can be objective in both directions... I'm not brand loyal... just look at my signature line....

Honda has for years now seemed behind the times in a way.... but at the same time a marvel of SIMPLICITY equal to the marvel of technology of the techy bikes.

I see the good in simplicity and the good in technology.... as I have both.

So I think some of you guys are going to be disappointed with the tech 450R.

[Lquad71]

Originally posted by MtnEX
And I would rebuild honestly....

Not that I would really want to....

But I think some of you guys are "off" for wanting a brand new first year model, fuel injection and all of that.

If you all wanted an aluminum frame, fuel injection and all of that.... well you should have jumped ship years ago and went on over to Kawasaki. It handles way better anyways...



I dont think hondas first year 2011 will be a bad choice because it is "first year". The first highperformance 450 was considered by many one of the best 450's that you can build up. joe byrd still uses the "first model" (well 2005 but they are exactly the same).and with the motor well i havent seen any problems with efi on the new dirt bikes so i think they know what they are doing. the only issue might be the frame because they havent built an aluminum frame on a quad before.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by Lquad71
I dont think hondas first year 2011 will be a bad choice because it is "first year". The first highperformance 450 was considered by many one of the best 450's that you can build up. joe byrd still uses the "first model" (well 2005 but they are exactly the same).and with the motor well i havent seen any problems with efi on the new dirt bikes so i think they know what they are doing. the only issue might be the frame because they havent built an aluminum frame on a quad before.

Lord, they have had long enough to work on it, test, R&D, etc... It ought to be good.

The trouble I see is this...
The quads never get the same treatment as the MX bikes.
Not for MANY years.
I mean look how long bikes have had aluminum frames.



But really what I was saying more than anything is... I have an EFI 450, and then a 400EX... polar opposites on technology... fossilized vs futuristic...


That being said, I see both sides of the fence, and know a lot of Honda riders and a lot of EFI quad riders....

And I just don't think the EFI is for everyone... particularly the Honda faithful.

Heck, the 450ER's are still sitting at dealers because these guys don't want the complication of a battery and starter... lol...

Now you want to force EFI on them.
It's pretty comical to me.

Honda is no doubt happy they are the last to add it, because their customers might go elsewhere if they had an option.

This is no question going to cause a "rebuild revolution" on the old carb kicker quads... lol...

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by MtnEX
The trouble I see is this...
The quads never get the same treatment as the MX bikes.


Put the bottle down. Don't you realize, how much more money is involved in these dirtbikes? Ten times the amount. :huh

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by Ruf Racing
Put the bottle down. Don't you realize, how much more money is involved in these dirtbikes? Ten times the amount. :huh


I am saying... off the showroom floor...

A 2010 model 450 mx bike is always years of development ahead of a 2010 model ATV.

If the 450R gets EFI, it will likely be more primitive than the first EFI system added to the CRF.

That sorta stuff.

The development and the advancement is always way behind. All the companies put their best efforts towards the mx bikes and the ATV's are always a running behind afterthought.

[curryd]

I hope the efi is the same as the bike. Why shouldn't it? They are running the same motor now basically, so it shold be a no-brainer. Also, hopefully it will have some modification ability built into the wiring like they are doing on the dirt bikes. EFI needs to be a lot better, because I can buy a lot of jets and modifications for the same price a fuel controller costs for the efi's.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by curryd
I hope the efi is the same as the bike. Why shouldn't it? They are running the same motor now basically, so it shold be a no-brainer. Also, hopefully it will have some modification ability built into the wiring like they are doing on the dirt bikes. EFI needs to be a lot better, because I can buy a lot of jets and modifications for the same price a fuel controller costs for the efi's.

Exactly.... but I can almost bet you money it won't be the same.

It will be a different throttle body, different head or cams, different piston, crank, flywheel, stator, gears... and on and on...

If it doesn't have a different throttle body and different EFI setup I will be very surprised because it will be the first.

And as far as a mod or whatever, only The LTR450 and DS450 had alternate stored maps in the stock ECU.... and frankly those won't get you much farther than removing the lid and baffle.

Unless you are going to stay relatively stock, an aftermarket ECU or fuel controller is pretty much a must... And you are right, it is not cheap! $300-400 will buy a lot of jets... lol...

[curryd]

Originally posted by MtnEX
Exactly.... but I can almost bet you money it won't be the same.

It will be a different throttle body, different head or cams, different piston, crank, flywheel, stator, gears... and on and on...

If it doesn't have a different throttle body and different EFI setup I will be very surprised because it will be the first.

And as far as a mod or whatever, only The LTR450 and DS450 had alternate stored maps in the stock ECU.... and frankly those won't get you much farther than removing the lid and baffle.

Unless you are going to stay relatively stock, an aftermarket ECU or fuel controller is pretty much a must... And you are right, it is not cheap! $300-400 will buy a lot of jets... lol...

I believe the motocross bike has the ability to change mapping someway or another. I just read Transworld Motocross. I know, it a bike magazine, but it gives great coverage on the two wheel side of things. Anyways, back to the point. Over in Japan, their "work" bikes come with all kinds of one off parts. Even Kawasaki has a different map you can switch from after the starts to get beter acceleration or traction thatis needed. They actually use a Honda switch off of the 450 to change them. Technology is there. We need it to be on the atvs as well.

[reptikes]

Originally posted by MtnEX
Lord, they have had long enough to work on it, test, R&D, etc... It ought to be good.

The trouble I see is this...
The quads never get the same treatment as the MX bikes.
Not for MANY years.
I mean look how long bikes have had aluminum frames.



But really what I was saying more than anything is... I have an EFI 450, and then a 400EX... polar opposites on technology... fossilized vs futuristic...


That being said, I see both sides of the fence, and know a lot of Honda riders and a lot of EFI quad riders....

And I just don't think the EFI is for everyone... particularly the Honda faithful.

Heck, the 450ER's are still sitting at dealers because these guys don't want the complication of a battery and starter... lol...

Now you want to force EFI on them.
It's pretty comical to me.

Honda is no doubt happy they are the last to add it, because their customers might go elsewhere if they had an option.

This is no question going to cause a "rebuild revolution" on the old carb kicker quads... lol...


Your exactly right! I have an 08' TRX450R. And even though i'll probably get the new one when released, i'll never get rid of the carbed 08'!

EFI means i gotta take it somewhere when something goes wrong. I have a buddy who races XC and went from an 05' TRX450R to a KFX450R and said the EFI sucks. He loves the quad... but has lots of problems with the EFI.

I don't want that headache.

[MtnEX]

Tell your buddy to holler at me...

I'd be glad to help him with the EFI.

I had to learn it all the hard way.



EFI is a big plus... until you hit the glitches and consider all the extra things that can go wrong, and the cost of repairing these parts.

I love it but hate it.


You can't match EFI with a carb no matter what anyone says. But some days I'd give up that edge in throttle response for simplicity.

Frankly, I'd rather see the EFI money invested elsewhere.

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by MtnEX
EFI is a big plus...


EFI is not the deal breaker. It's rewards are not worth the gains!
FCR all day, everyday! :macho

[PLF]

You guys seem to often forget the main goal of a Honda or any other mx/atv company wich is:

Make money ! Simple as that


They make much more money selling you older/cheaper tech than new one. They won't make aluminum frames, efi, lighter parts etc. unless they feel that people are going to stop buying there machines...

Is has been the very same in all markets forever, cars, boats, snowmobiles, pickups etc etc.

They resist change because change is investment and research and equals less profit.

The reason some sectors evolve faster is because there is more market, more competition and clients expect more.


just my 0.02 cents

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by PLF
You guys seem to often forget the main goal of a Honda or any other mx/atv company wich is:

Make money ! Simple as that


They make much more money selling you older/cheaper tech than new one. They won't make aluminum frames, efi, lighter parts etc. unless they feel that people are going to stop buying there machines...

Is has been the very same in all markets forever, cars, boats, snowmobiles, pickups etc etc.

They resist change because change is investment and research and equals less profit.

The reason some sectors evolve faster is because there is more market, more competition and clients expect more.


just my 0.02 cents

That is exactly right...

But the "general" market has already spoken long ago on the TRX450.... this is why it is 2011 and you can still find 2006 models sitting on dealer floors.

The racers who will buy them take them down to the frame and frankenstein them with all the best stuff for various years and stuff love finding these for sale new but don't make the sales market go around... and most of those guys also only want the kick start models because of the issues with the ER's... so the ER's still continue to just sit until guys give in and buy them for parts donors.

Honda built a crap load of them over about 5 years... but Honda is cronically slow and weak on updates... so it was too little too late... and they didn't catch on to the fact they were not going to be able to relax and ride on their brand name for 10 years or more while still enjoying healthy sales numbers.

It just didn't happen and they didn't sell so they had too many just to keep building and had to drop out on production.

This has NOT been a successful business model for them, so the question remains if this is really already a dropped model and they don't want to talk about it... or if a new one is waiting in the stable.

But this is clearly their two choices... and I think Honda is out while everyone else seems to think they are holding out for inventory to drop and the economy to improve.

I think guys can see from the news releases on 2/12/11 where Honda's core focus and bread-n-butter preferences are..... the utility market and cruiser market.