Calling ALL Small Block Guru's!

[Brauap]

Hello! I have gotten a 327 SB from my uncle for free. It has been sitting in a truck in his yard for 25 years (came out of a 66' C10) so I had taken it apart to check it out. The internals look amazing.. but I have some questions:

1) I know it is bored .030 over (the pistons read .030) on ONE side, but the other side reads simply 060, no periods before or anything. There is a longer number before these, and if you need them let me know.. but do you think he bored out one side and not the other or bored out one side .030 over and the other .060?

2) I know it has aftermarket headers (because it isn't a manifold) but there isn't any names, but a part number.. where can I find out who makes it?

3) The intake is also aftermarket, but there is no names or part numbers.. how do I figure out who makes that?

4) I know the crank is aftermarket.. it has numbers but where can I find out who makes it?

5) It has a Holly Carb on it.. it needs rebuilt (no big deal) but should I rebuild it or should I get a propane kit for it (it is going into an off-road buggy)

Sorry for all the questions!

Thank You!
Colton W.

[406Z26]

Post up some pics of the pistons and intake.

[Brauap]

Both of my cameras are broke! haha

[ZBlaster]

streetcarforums.com Post up the part numbers you have on there and someone will be able to tell you what it is.

[Brauap]

Alright I will if I don't get any responses here.. Thank You!

_________________________________________________

The Block Number: 3789935

Holly 4 Barrel Carb
Moroso Valve Covers (Poss. Head Work?)
Hydrolic Lifters (Is That Factory?)
Right Pistons Read: L2163 .030
Left Pistons Read: L2163 060
Crank Caps Read:
(1)
3951
GM157
(2)
3951
GM164
(3)
3951
GM130
(4)
3951
GM129

Under the caps are spacers
They Read:
FM 2556 RAL
.010 US SX

Crank Number:
GM36
3815822

Number on headers:
Side 1: 097
Side 2: 1100 097

And I still can't find anything on the intake...

Please Help!
Thank You!

[Brauap]

And I do not know how to remove the cam to check to see if it is factory or not.. the cover is stuck on by a fitting that is attached to the crank and it seems as if you have to remove the crank to remove the cam?!

[Ichoptop]

without numbers no one will be able to tell you mfg and mfg part number. Even with numbers it will be pretty hard. Its a small block, aftermarket parts are on every street corner for cheap.

If its been sitting that long it has to be rebuilt. Tear it down and take the block, crank and heads to the machine shop to be flux checked and measured. Once you know whats what you can start ordering parts.

[Brauap]

It's torn down right now! Believe it or not.. the internals look amazing! 0 rust or corrosion! And it has been sitting out back of my uncles house for 25 years.. 25 years of snow.. rain.. etc

The engine was rebuilt right before it was left there.. you can still see the hone marks on the cylinder.. the hydrolic lifters have 0 wear.. the crank looks brand new (and it has been balanced) and the pistons just have a tad bit carbon build up! Its a great motor! Can't wait to hear this thing purrr! :devil:

[Ichoptop]

wrong, after 25 years it should be gone through. Lubricants evaporate, the weight of cranks that havent rotated in two decades will move bearing material. Springs will lose the pressure ratios while under constant pressure over time. Gaskets will dry out and shrink. There are several other things that could cause failure.
Trust me, building performance motors is what I have done for 22 years.
It only take one dry spot or contamination to spin a bearing. If all the machine work is fresh (as in not wore down from running) theres nothing stopping you from a set of rings and bearing and a set of valve springs for less then 120 bucks. Also, pull the lifters and resoak them in oil then apply break in lube WITH ZINC to the bearings, cam lobes lifters and rockers and see what happens.

and who would bore a block .030 on one side and .060 on the other? thats just strange.

[Brauap]

Originally posted by Ichoptop
wrong, after 25 years it should be gone through. Lubricants evaporate, the weight of cranks that havent rotated in two decades will move bearing material. Springs will lose the pressure ratios while under constant pressure over time. Gaskets will dry out and shrink. There are several other things that could cause failure.
Trust me, building performance motors is what I have done for 22 years.
It only take one dry spot or contamination to spin a bearing. If all the machine work is fresh (as in not wore down from running) theres nothing stopping you from a set of rings and bearing and a set of valve springs for less then 120 bucks. Also, pull the lifters and resoak them in oil then apply break in lube WITH ZINC to the bearings, cam lobes lifters and rockers and see what happens.

and who would bore a block .030 on one side and .060 on the other? thats just strange.

Oh yea.. we are going though the motor and replacing brand new gaskets (new of 1980 :P), re-lubing everything, and just freshing everything up!

BY THE WAY

I measured the cylinders and the right side measures 3.88"
Left side measures 3.91"

So I guess the left side is bored .030 over more than the right side.. WHY?!

[fastredrider44]

This has the potential to be a time bomb. SBC motors are cheap, and the one you are describing sounds to be a headache and a money pit. Ichoptop has good info. The entire thing needs to be gone all the way though, not matter what the internals look like. Best of luck! You're going to need it.

[Brauap]

Don't worry.. its going to get gone through.. very well! My uncle builds 9 second SBC's.. and he said he'd go though it for us so I am feeling pretty good about it!

[fastredrider44]

:cool:

[406Z26]

Originally posted by Brauap
Don't worry.. its going to get gone through.. very well! My uncle builds 9 second SBC's.. and he said he'd go though it for us so I am feeling pretty good about it!

If your "9 sec Uncle" gave you a SBC bored 30 over on one side and 60 over on the other I would not let him go through it. Junk that bottom end and get another one. Look for a 010 (350) and build that.

[Brauap]

No.. my other uncle..
1 uncle gave me the SBC
the other uncle builds SBC's

Why junk the bottom end?! Its like new and has been balanced! For all that I know.. the guy who before my uncle (a guy gave my uncle the motor and the truck and it just sat where he dropped it off for 25 years) had put a 350 crank in it?! Does anyone have a site where I can run these numbers since no one is helping with identifying the parts..

[ZBlaster]

Originally posted by Brauap
No.. my other uncle..
1 uncle gave me the SBC
the other uncle builds SBC's

Why junk the bottom end?! Its like new and has been balanced! For all that I know.. the guy who before my uncle (a guy gave my uncle the motor and the truck and it just sat where he dropped it off for 25 years) had put a 350 crank in it?! Does anyone have a site where I can run these numbers since no one is helping with identifying the parts..


I'm telling you, post the parts numbers on streetcarforums.com you WILL get an answer.

[Brauap]

I had.. this morning and the thread had only gotten 10 views all day.. about 4 of them where from me...

_____________________________________________

My fathers friend had come over today (use to race and own a shop) and he gave me some information on the motor..

1) The crank is steel and is worth alot of $$

2) The pistons are higher compression and are groved for high lift cam

3) The intake is Edelbrock with the name ground off which makes since

I had found out they first started comming out with 327's in 67 (which I am not sure about) so this is either an earlier engine or not a 327

I had also pulled the cam (sitting on my lap right now.. and I had got some numbers off of it

1d3

either GWC OR CWC

TPI74

D1

8

C1

Its very random.. just numbers and lets printed on the cam up and down it between the lobes but no names or word... any help?

[Guy400]

1.) The 327 was built much earlier than '67.

2.) I have heard of boring one side bigger than the other but this was to get around possible tear-downs by inspectors at a drag strip. On older cars they almost always pulled the driver's side cylinder head off because the other side had the bracketing for the alternator so that was just more work to go through. The thought was they could squeeze a hair more CI out and not get caught.

3.) If any motor has been sitting for 25 years it's time for a complete rebuild. Turning the crank, line-honing crank journals, etc...the whole deal. When you don't know how something was built than you need to start over. No sense in putting some work into it now only to see it grenade and then have to do it all over again. If you've got it apart now than it's the best time for a ground-up rebuild.

4.) If it's a steel crank than it's either aftermarket or most likely an old small-journal steel crank from a 327. Have the stroke measured to be sure because, let's be honest, you don't know exactly what you have.

5.) The CWC stamp is just the manufacturer of the cam blank and were nearly always used for stock OEM cams or parts store OEM replacements. The only way to truly know would be to have the cam measured but it would be cheaper to just buy a new cam and then you have exactly what you need. What concerns me is the "TPI" stamp. On all my books this designation was for the Tuned Port Injection Camaro/Firebirds of the late 80's. A cam for a computer-controlled TPI motor in a carb'd 327 has me scratching my head.

The long and short of it is to completely rebuild this piece that way you know exactly what's been done, exactly what it has in it and it's built for your specific application. A motor built for a truck to pull a camper is going to suck in a street toy and likewise if it's built for screwing around on the street it's not going to be good for utilitarian purposes.

[Brauap]

I am going to tear it down and lube, clean, and refresh everything but I do not have the money to build the engine so I will look for wear and tear and replace what I need.. I just can not rebuild this motor completely.

If you looked at this motor.. for sitting for 25 years.. you would be extremly impressed I'm sure! It looks fantastic! The cross hatching on the cylinder is still fresh- the crank looks brand new- etc! Like I said.. I'll freshen it up.. but I can't rebuild it..

QUESTION: Will heads off of a firebird small block fit on this 327? My cousin has a set of build heads for his firebird.. and he'd give them to me.. but I'm not sure if they'd fit..

[Brauap]

Originally posted by Guy400
1.) The 327 was built much earlier than '67.

2.) I have heard of boring one side bigger than the other but this was to get around possible tear-downs by inspectors at a drag strip. On older cars they almost always pulled the driver's side cylinder head off because the other side had the bracketing for the alternator so that was just more work to go through. The thought was they could squeeze a hair more CI out and not get caught.

3.) If any motor has been sitting for 25 years it's time for a complete rebuild. Turning the crank, line-honing crank journals, etc...the whole deal. When you don't know how something was built than you need to start over. No sense in putting some work into it now only to see it grenade and then have to do it all over again. If you've got it apart now than it's the best time for a ground-up rebuild.

4.) If it's a steel crank than it's either aftermarket or most likely an old small-journal steel crank from a 327. Have the stroke measured to be sure because, let's be honest, you don't know exactly what you have.

5.) The CWC stamp is just the manufacturer of the cam blank and were nearly always used for stock OEM cams or parts store OEM replacements. The only way to truly know would be to have the cam measured but it would be cheaper to just buy a new cam and then you have exactly what you need. What concerns me is the "TPI" stamp. On all my books this designation was for the Tuned Port Injection Camaro/Firebirds of the late 80's. A cam for a computer-controlled TPI motor in a carb'd 327 has me scratching my head.

The long and short of it is to completely rebuild this piece that way you know exactly what's been done, exactly what it has in it and it's built for your specific application. A motor built for a truck to pull a camper is going to suck in a street toy and likewise if it's built for screwing around on the street it's not going to be good for utilitarian purposes.

1) Ok Thanks!
2) Do you think this is possibly an old drag motor? It's built up pretty good..
3) Posted above
4) How do you measure the stroke? Can you w/o tearing the crank apart?
5) So do you think it is a OE crank?

Thank You!!!!
Colton W.

[gt400ex]

Google small block casting numbers and you can find lists for the heads, intakes, cranks and so forth. If that dosent help or no one else can get better info PM me and Ill dig out my casting number books and get the info to ya in the morning.

[Guy400]

Originally posted by Brauap
I am going to tear it down and lube, clean, and refresh everything but I do not have the money to build the engine so I will look for wear and tear and replace what I need.. I just can not rebuild this motor completely.

If you looked at this motor.. for sitting for 25 years.. you would be extremly impressed I'm sure! It looks fantastic! The cross hatching on the cylinder is still fresh- the crank looks brand new- etc! Like I said.. I'll freshen it up.. but I can't rebuild it..

QUESTION: Will heads off of a firebird small block fit on this 327? My cousin has a set of build heads for his firebird.. and he'd give them to me.. but I'm not sure if they'd fit.. No, the heads off of a Pontiac motor will not fit a SBC.

If there's no rush to build this motor I'm still advising to just wait and do it in stages. Save up enough money where you can have all the bottom end done at once and then assemble the short block.

Looks can also be deceiving. Just because it's shiny doesn't mean it's right. Have all the journals mic'd so you know what the measurements are. Bearings come in various sizes depending on how much has been previously machined. If you go putting bearings in for a crank that's been turned .010" under and it's actually some other size I guarantee you're going to have failure. I'm telling you this out of experience. When you don't know for absolute certain what you've got than you have to start over. How would you like to freshen this motor up, spend that time and money and then put it together and it blows up? With a steel crank you probably won't have failure there but you'll throw a rod and possibly crack a block and then you're absolutely out. Earlier you stated this motor has been balanced...how do you know? Was it internally balanced or externally? You don't know. You've got a great starting point with a good block and steel crank (if it's steel). Don't jeopardize those pieces by assuming this motor is in great shape and try to run it. If you break the block or crank you'll be crying.

[Brauap]

The crank has been drilled to be balanced. And yes, it is steel.
The pistons look great, the cylinders look great, the cam looks good, the lifters look brand new (I have them soaking in oil like someone previously had mentioned), etc..

That really sucks about the Pontiac... I was really hoping they'd work! He has over a grand in those heads (very large valves, nice port job, etc.) but oh well! :)

[Brauap]

I had just gone down in my basement because I remembered I had some old car books. This is what I had found:

Catalog of American Care ID Numbers 1960-1969

Chilton's Auto Repair Manual 1979

Petersen's Basic Cams, Valves, & Exhaust Systems

2 "Engines" Magazines
HOW-TO Rebuild Your First Engine
Build a Blown Chevy 350

_______

These should be fun to look through and may (if they are a good source) help alot!

[Brauap]

I was talking to my dad and it turns out where are going to take it to my "9sec Uncle" and WE are going to rebuild the entire motor.. just seems smart more I think about it! :)

[F-16Guy]

If it's going to be used for off-roading, you'll want either a Q-jet or fuel injection. I agree with everyone else: 0.030 on one side and 0.060 on the other = scary.:eek: If it was free and it's just for bashing, you could freshen it up and give it a try. Worst case scenario is that it blows up. Then you're out what, $50? Go for it!! :macho

[fastredrider44]

Depends on what kind of off-roading. Q-jets aren't crazy about hills.

[F-16Guy]

I've always heard the opposite. Q-jets have a relatively small float bowl located right in the middle of the casting, so there's less slosh and flooding. Set the float level a little lower, and you're ready to go!

[fastredrider44]

I've had Q-Jets on the past two trail trucks I've had. They did fine as long as you powered up the hill, but if you got stuck or stopped, it was gonna die.

[400exrider707]

Bigger pistons on one side is usually a sign of a drag motor like someone said, it's a cheater block. I've heard of motors with one stock bore piston and 7 overbore pistons as well.

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
Bigger pistons on one side is usually a sign of a drag motor like someone said, it's a cheater block. I've heard of motors with one stock bore piston and 7 overbore pistons as well.
So you're hoping that if you get inspected, the inspector takes off the side with the legal bore size? I don't know exactly how that process works, but it sounds like a roll of the dice. I guess if you're not cheating, you're not trying. :devil:

[Brauap]

Yea.. I was researching stuff for the motor and this was my plan thus far (very well may change)

Take it totally apart and rebuild everything.
New Torque Cam
New Rods and Lifters
New all .060 pistons
Rebuild the 600 Holley
Get Vortec Heads
Get Edelbrock Intake for the Heads
Get new headers

OR

Take it totally apart and rebuild everything
New Torque Cam
New Rods and Lifters
New all .060 Pistons
Rebuild the 600 Holley

I already re=painted the block and it looks great!


I may either put it in a mud truck or find a cheap S10 and make it a mini Pro-Street haha

OR

Sell it, put a few bucks into a 4.3 I have sitting around and put the 4.3 into a buggy

[F-16Guy]

Option one looks good, but what cc heads does a 327 come with? If you're using 5.7 Vortec heads, are they going to have larger combustion chambers? I'm sure you're going to want to keep the CR up. I guess you could go with a set of 64cc Vortec heads and get flat top pistons.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by F-16Guy
So you're hoping that if you get inspected, the inspector takes off the side with the legal bore size? I don't know exactly how that process works, but it sounds like a roll of the dice. I guess if you're not cheating, you're not trying. :devil:

I believe they did this in Nascar. They had a tool that they would drop down into the cylinder that would measure the volume I believe. They would always check piston #1, so that stayed stock, and the other 7 went bigger.:devil:

[Brauap]

Well, I had done some research and it has turned out, sadly, that the motor is only a 283! However, I was wondering, if is it possible to switch out the crank for a 350 and incease the C.I. or even make it a 350 (like how you can with a 327)?

Thanks!
Colton W.