416 vs 426

[ridein'red7]

im getting a hopped up 04 400ex its got a lot done to it. well i was wondering if i should go 416 or 426 rite now it melted the piston to the walls so i have to bore it but i dont want to waste the cylinder and also what compression 11:1 rite and do i need to put gt thunder head bolts? thanks if u want the list or engine mods ill post what i know

[ridein'red7]

o and this is a newb question but what bore size is the 416 and 426 like the piston size thanks again

[PaRedneckRiders]

i would go with the 416 because its the first cylinder bore and either 11:1 or 12:1 comp ratio
If u choose 12:1 i would get the gtt head studs because its cheap insurance
Stock bore is 85mm
406=86mm
416=87mm
426=88mm
440=89mm
460=89mm+4mm stroker crank
500=90or 90.5 i dont remember+7mm stroker crank

[ridein'red7]

haha wow thats what i wanted for info thanks a million but im siked to get this itll b cheaper than my last quad that was basically a dragster lol

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by PaRedneckRiders

Stock bore is 85mm
406=86mm
416=87mm
426=88mm
440=89mm
460=89mm+4mm stroker crank
500=90or 90.5 i dont remember+7mm stroker crank
Close. For some reason we commonly call them what they are not. Like the 406 is really closer to a 407 and the 440 is really a 435. To hit 440 by bore only you'd need an 89.5mm piston. I think JE has them.

There are a lot of stroker combos but to hit 500 you need the +7 and a 91mm piston. A +7 and a 91.5 gets you 506 so I don't know where the one dude here came up with 502 for his build.

I agree with the 416.

[ridein'red7]

notice in power?

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by ridein'red7
notice in power? Yeah, the biggest thing is the bump in compression. I'm guessing you've been around an engine build or 2 so if you want even more kick go right to a big bore sleeve and an 88.5mm JE piston. That will put you at 431 and you can still bore to an 89 or 89.5mm for future service that's why I like the 88.5mm. Get the right sleeve and there is no case work to be done. As far as engine builds go it's a pretty cheap deal. Get a stg 2 or 3 hotcam too these motors love em. I have a JE 88.5mm 11.5:1 piston and sleeve just waiting for the end of this season. I will be using the stg 3 cam with it.

[ridein'red7]

i was a two stoker now a 4 poker but like the 400ex n the ltz just more realiable and easier to maintain as in rideing and fun factor

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by ridein'red7
i was a two stoker now a 4 poker but like the 400ex n the ltz just more realiable and easier to maintain as in rideing and fun factor I hear ya. I've had a bunch of 2-smoke bikes, an 86 trx250r, 87 LT250, 3 tri-Z's and an 84 atc250r. They're a blast. The 400ex is lacking in the snap but it digs hard when built a little and runs like the energizer bunny. The cam is a weak point power wise so seriously put some thought into one. I think you can get them for 125 on ebay.

[Pt's400ex]

Just from my experience so far with my 416 I love it plenty of power. I still don't have a cam in it yet but pulls hard all the way through the gear's. With the 416 you still have room to goto 426 when you need to.

Oh and my last bike I had was a '88 Tecate 250 with a 300 bigbore kit designed by Fullbore Power Sports. I actually miss that bike but it was hard to find parts for because it was so rare. Jim

[ridein'red7]

its got a full stage 2 hot cams and a yoshi system its gota alot into it but he just held it to bar litterly for at least 2 miles n killed it (melted piston) but didnt damage nething but where can i find a cheap wiseco besides there site rocky mt on goes to 406

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by Pt's400ex
Just from my experience so far with my 416 I love it plenty of power. I still don't have a cam in it yet but pulls hard all the way through the gear's. You spent the money on porting but not 125 on a cam? You're missing out man.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by ridein'red7
its got a full stage 2 hot cams and a yoshi system its gota alot into it but he just held it to bar litterly for at least 2 miles n killed it (melted piston) but didnt damage nething but where can i find a cheap wiseco besides there site rocky mt on goes to 406 Ebay, all day long. Can't hardly beat the deals and my last dozen builds were all ebay purchased parts. The big parts houses like DK and RMATV suck for selection on oversizes.

[ridein'red7]

i was affraid of that lol i dnt care much for egay lol what about motosport i guess i could look

[CJM]

Ebay is cheaper, I got my cam, piston and misc odds an ends for my 416 build.

[TRXRacer1]

Like CJM said you can get it all on there. Most of the time you can find the parts from actual dealers like Honda of Troy on egay. In my experience most pistons, cams and gaskets I've picked up have been from real dealers and shops.

[JOHNDOE83]

If your gonna do a bore, go with 440 ......youll just want it later.

[ridein'red7]

i thought i had pletty of power stock bore the gy got a lot done to it

[Pt's400ex]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
You spent the money on porting but not 125 on a cam? You're missing out man.

It was ported already from previous owner but the cam will be my next big purchase i'm leaning towards the stage 2. I would also like to get the 450r carb as well I think it will really open it up. Jim

[PaRedneckRiders]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
Close. For some reason we commonly call them what they are not. Like the 406 is really closer to a 407 and the 440 is really a 435. To hit 440 by bore only you'd need an 89.5mm piston. I think JE has them.

There are a lot of stroker combos but to hit 500 you need the +7 and a 91mm piston. A +7 and a 91.5 gets you 506 so I don't know where the one dude here came up with 502 for his build.

I agree with the 416.

I was going off the common names and i just couldnt remember What the 500 was because i Talked to FST a while back about building one

[440ex. ehhh!!]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
If your gonna do a bore, go with 440 ......youll just want it later.

Absolutely! because then you can go with a stage 1, 2 hotcam and if you wanna go stroker, you can drop in a stage 3 and blow everyone away.
plus, no matter what your always going to want more power, so why not just bore it all out once, instead of going with a 406-->426-->440. thats 3 times as much money.
even with the stock cam, the 440 is great. im dropping in a stage 2 in a few months to make it really come alive though.
Josh

[a4guy]

How reliable is the 440? I am pulling the top end soon to replace the base gasket due to a small leak and figured I would do something different while I have it apart. Was thinking about the 416 but the 440 is sounding good.

Basically all I would need to do is have the cylinder bored, a new piston/rings and gaskets.

Then I could run stage 2 cam with +3 Key?

[440ex. ehhh!!]

Originally posted by a4guy
How reliable is the 440? I am pulling the top end soon to replace the base gasket due to a small leak and figured I would do something different while I have it apart. Was thinking about the 416 but the 440 is sounding good.

Basically all I would need to do is have the cylinder bored, a new piston/rings and gaskets.

Then I could run stage 2 cam with +3 Key?

Actually, i read on the sparks website last night that the key is not supposed to be used with a big bore. :ermm: and the 440 is very reliable. got it back in February from a guy and i haven't checked compression or anything yet. :p probably not good though. aha
but i really haven't had any need to check anything because it runs fine, besides the fact it burns oil when its cold and been sitting for a week. but everyone i have talked to in person says their 440 does the same thing.
Josh

[a4guy]

Now with the 440 can you use the stock sleeve and just have it bored? How much is getting taken out and how much is left?

[a4guy]

Never mind on how much is getting taken out. I answered my own question. Its going to be about 4.5mm taken out for the 440 correct?

[440ex. ehhh!!]

Originally posted by a4guy
Never mind on how much is getting taken out. I answered my own question. Its going to be about 4.5mm taken out for the 440 correct?

well, stock bore as noted on the first page of this topic is 85mm, and for 440 you bore it to 89mm. check out the kit wiseco makes, there is a 12.5:1 CR and a 11:1. but the 11:1 is only a 435cc
http://www.wiseco.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ItemID=PK1732&ModelID=364&ModelYear=2001&AppID=28009

[TRXRacer1]

ALL 89mm pistons regardless of CR or brand is 435cc. If you go big bore I highly recommend the 88.5mm piston, only a 431, because if you're going to do all that work it's nice to have another bore on the cylinder left.

a4, you will need to install a bigger sleeve. The biggest you go on the stock sleeve is 426. You are correct too, you would need an 89.5mm piston in order to truly achieve 440 by bore alone.

[a4guy]

Well, I would like to stick with the stock sleeve for now so I guess I will be going with the 426, stage 2 cam. I know I read it somewhere but what sparks key can be used with the 426?

I have so much I want and need to get done on this thing but every time I start thinking about tearing it down I get a phone call to hit the trails.

I think I am going to just slowly start buying all the parts and once I have them all on the shelves, tear it apart this winter and do it all.

I have quite the list going:

426 mod
450r Shocks
Sparks +Key
+2 A-arms
+2 Rear Axle
Hand Guards
Stage 2 Cam
SPAL fan mod
Powder coat frame
Tires/wheels
Chain/sprockets

Some day it will be done.

boring the motor makes it more sluggish. Like 440 big bores are slow as ****, there are plenty of well built 416's that would walk them no problem. Dont bore for power, build for power. IMO the most I would go is 416.

[TRX01]

i have the 426, but i have a resleeved cylinder, mine wasnt bored to a 426.......and i aso have a stage 2 hotcam...........mine runs like a raped ape

[jasonwayne222]

1mm = .40

86mm = .40 over 406
87mm = .80 416
88mm = .120 426
89mm = .160 440

[440ex. ehhh!!]

Originally posted by FlewByU352
boring the motor makes it more sluggish. Like 440 big bores are slow as ****, there are plenty of well built 416's that would walk them no problem. Dont bore for power, build for power. IMO the most I would go is 416.

what makes you think 440s are slow!?
and okay, well built 416's, put those parts on a 440 and then look who will be walking over who.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by 440ex. ehhh!!
what makes you think 440s are slow!?
and okay, well built 416's, put those parts on a 440 and then look who will be walking over who. Anyone that knows anything about motors would agree.


Originally posted by jasonwayne222
1mm = .40

86mm = .40 over 406
87mm = .80 416
88mm = .120 426
89mm = .160 440 Close but no cigar.

[JOHNDOE83]

Originally posted by FlewByU352
boring the motor makes it more sluggish. Like 440 big bores are slow as ****, there are plenty of well built 416's that would walk them no problem. Dont bore for power, build for power. IMO the most I would go is 416.

Thats just crazy to even say that...lol.

You really dont know what you said...lol

[honda400ex2003]

Originally posted by FlewByU352
boring the motor makes it more sluggish. Like 440 big bores are slow as ****, there are plenty of well built 416's that would walk them no problem. Dont bore for power, build for power. IMO the most I would go is 416.

I dont like to do this but this is a special case... then he wonders why people dislike him... why are you still in this forum anyway, shouldnt you be in the 450 forum instead? Im not starting anything here but come on dude... steve

[a4guy]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
I dont like to do this but this is a special case... then he wonders why people dislike him... why are you still in this forum anyway, shouldnt you be in the 450 forum instead? Im not starting anything here but come on dude... steve

http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/photo/data/523/0653_homer-eating-popcorn-small-c7873.jpg

This is why I love forums. hahaha

[honda400ex2003]

unfortunately i usually stick up for him in car discussions where he gets burned for no reason but with comments like that he deserves what he gets coming to him. i hate doing stuff like that cause that is not how i am at all! steve

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
i hate doing stuff like that cause that is not how i am at all! steve Sure Steve...... :p

[honda400ex2003]

You know it :devil: a bit off topic but what the hey... we gotta get together sometime and ride, i think we would have a fun day ripping it up lol. how are the cheese country trails down by you? they look decent enough in the map book. steve

[TRXRacer1]

I'd totally be up for a ride. Cheese county is good. It's just a strait line rail grade run but the towns all have something stop worthy. I'll be in Mountain WI in August. Is that anywhere near you? Unlimited trails up there and there's the pipeline kind of sandy play ground up there.

[dalejiw25]

Originally posted by FlewByU352
boring the motor makes it more sluggish. Like 440 big bores are slow as ****, there are plenty of well built 416's that would walk them no problem. Dont bore for power, build for power. IMO the most I would go is 416.

Not even Worthy Entertainment. Just Pure Ignorance. SAD.

[honda400ex2003]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
I'd totally be up for a ride. Cheese county is good. It's just a strait line rail grade run but the towns all have something stop worthy. I'll be in Mountain WI in August. Is that anywhere near you? Unlimited trails up there and there's the pipeline kind of sandy play ground up there.

nice, that is over by dallas(honda#4) actually. i am north west a bit further than that but i may be able to see what i can do about getting down to ride for a day. I ride harrison hills, parrish, and the willow flowage up by me alot. i also make the occasional trip to hurley and sometimes to florence. August is tough cause i start school again the 3rd week and will be working through the 1st. I plan to take the 9-13 off possibly but am not sure since i am not sure if they will need me where i am working or not. let me know when you are going and ill see if i can make it over! steve