jetting my 440ex with a 450R carb

[Xplorer99]

hey guys, i FIANLLY got my 440 back together, after 7 months lol. got the 450R carb wondering what jets i should buy and what one to start with. thanks! in addition to the parts listed in my sig i have Aluminum Air box with no lid and an outerwears on the Uni Filter. my exhaust looks bigger than my buddys stock 400. its 1 1/4 od, it is custom bent and goes into a Micron muffler


one issue i ran into is the choke lever... i cant lift it up to put the choke on when the gas tank is on, not enough room. i read that you can remove choke on stock 400carb and just change pilot jet to help cold starts... what should i do there?



just gotta buy alot of oil and a bunch of filters and ill have it running on saturday! i can wait. thanks for everyones help on here!


unrelated to the jetting....should i just use normal NON synthetic Honda oil for the break in?

[JOHNDOE83]

Any regular motor oil is fine, penzoil, castrol...the high dolla honda stuff is a rip off.

There is plenty of 450r carb install threads on here, Even I have one, your supposed to remove the choke "lever" and up the pilot jet, mine has a 50 pilot and works great.

Try a 190 main jet and go from there, depending on weather conditions I need anywhere from 190 to 220.

[Xplorer99]

i must have serached wrong last night i could only find a couple threads. ok ill just buy a bunch. so everyone that runs the 450r carb takes the lever off, i just notched the white gas tank plate so it would fit. aill do some more searchin, thanks alot tho

it depends on what 450 carb you have 04-05 carb witch is a vac carb 06 and up are fcr flat slid mac. carb the jetting will be diffrent cuz thay are to diff. style carbs.

[Xplorer99]

Originally posted by ericcrip
it depends on what 450 carb you have 04-05 carb witch is a vac carb 06 and up are fcr flat slid mac. carb the jetting will be diffrent cuz thay are to diff. style carbs.


i have an 04 450R carb
i dont know anything about carbs so bear with me lol

whats the e-clip that everyone else is talking about?

i cant find a kit except dyno jet, but no Keihn jet kits

[JOHNDOE83]

www.jetsrus.com 450r carb jets are the same as 400ex jets.

look in the FAQs section on jetrus website for more jetting info

ok what u need to do is go to honda and tell them you need a main jet for a o4 450 carb tell them u need a 190 if your car dont have one a 195,200,205 210 and a 220 but befor u do all that put a 190 in it. put 10 good passes on it and pull the plug if its still white go 10 to a 200 if its golden brown your good or just call me at 803-444-0995 and ill walk u though it its no prob be glad to help u out. name is Eric.

[Xplorer99]

Originally posted by ericcrip
ok what u need to do is go to honda and tell them you need a main jet for a o4 450 carb tell them u need a 190 if your car dont have one a 195,200,205 210 and a 220 but befor u do all that put a 190 in it. put 10 good passes on it and pull the plug if its still white go 10 to a 200 if its golden brown your good or just call me at 803-444-0995 and ill walk u though it its no prob be glad to help u out. name is Eric.

hey i appreciate it! what is the e-clip that everone else talks about. what notch it should be on and where is it at?:

thanks again!

if u tack the top off the carb you will see it its long there will be 3 or 4 small nutches in it move the clip down to the 3rd the pop it back on.

opp take the top off lol

[Xplorer99]

ok thanks. ill go move it to the 3rd notch down and take the jets out and see waht is in it... local honda dealer has the jets for like 2.50 each. ill pick up a bigger pilot too. thanks!

[Wheelie]

Don't base everything on plug reading, use it as an occasional reference, but don't throw all your eggs in one basket.

Tune the machine by how it actually runs under a load.

[Xplorer99]

ill be buying the jets in the morning..... i cant find that eclip thing....if you take the top off its just the big round part that comes up when u push the throttle open..... cant remember what the term is lol its late....

thanks again... cant wait to fire this beast up!!!!

[JOHNDOE83]

I agree with whellie on the plug chop....not a for sure thing. I go by feel and rpm range. Mine tends to run better and cooler slightly rich.

take the top off the carb, the part that slides up and down will have two tiny screws in it and one on the armature, take those off and the needle with the c-clip is underneath, pull out the needle youll see notchs on it where the clip is.

[f4iracer]

Yeah do what johndoe said.

It's small parts in there so you have to be careful. The 2 small philips head screws must be removed....i used a magnetic screwdriver and it helped a bunch getting the screws back in.

once they are out you can lift the arm thingy that holds what the screws are attached too. then you will see the needle.

[Xplorer99]

well i got her fired up. only rolled over for about 20 seconds and fired right up!!!!

the dealer only had a 52pilot so thats what is in it. got the 190 in it now. i have the idle screw all the way out. did not have the air duct hooked to the carb either. ran great except it bogged/died if u hit the throttle really fast. new air duct and uni filter will be here this week so ill see waht happends when i get those hooked up....... thanks for the help guys!

[Xplorer99]

hey again guys, i cant seem to get this jetted right. went from 190 to 220 and back down. it keeps bogging at about 1/2 throttle. with a 200 jet it would bog any gear at 3/4 throttle. it 4th and 5th gear it would bog at 1/2 throttle. felt like it was lacking fuel.

went to a 210 and it had alot more power. would bog at 3/4 throttle in 3rd gear. and also 1/2 throttle in 4th and 5th.

220 seemed to also lack fuel
...


i found the eclip and moved it to the 4th clip from top. waiting on UPS to bring my new carrier so i can ride tomorow. so i have been just revving it N in garage.


iv tried 220, 210 200 and 195. still bogs at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle.

if you open the throttle really fast it will die, or almost die
what could be wrong?

also, i read the carb section in the 450r manual and it has a small chapter on Idle Drop Adjustment, where u tighten the idle screw then back it out 1 3/4 turns, then tighten till engine runs faster then turn out the idle screw.
so i need to do this maybe?

thanks again!

[honda400ex2003]

on the 4th clip on the needle it is almost as rich as it can go(i think there are 5 on the stock 450 needle). going down clips on the needle will richen your mid range up. I would say to go to the 2nd position and see how that helps it out with the best running main you had. whichever ran best from 3/4 to full would be the one to use. I would start with the 210 and see how that runs since your issues were at 3/4 or less which would be mostly on the needle. I hope that helps you out a bit. steve

[Xplorer99]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
on the 4th clip on the needle it is almost as rich as it can go(i think there are 5 on the stock 450 needle). going down clips on the needle will richen your mid range up. I would say to go to the 2nd position and see how that helps it out with the best running main you had. whichever ran best from 3/4 to full would be the one to use. I would start with the 210 and see how that runs since your issues were at 3/4 or less which would be mostly on the needle. I hope that helps you out a bit. steve

ya all my problems are about from 1/2 to full throttle. idle to 1/2 throttle it runs great. to start it i usually hit the hrottle 2-3 times and it starts on the first crank. if not then it cranks like 3-4 times then fires up. i got a tach/hour meter on it. idles great at 1500. i think the 210 jet ran the best when on the 3rd notch. ill put it up on the 2nd notch and see what happens, thanks for the help!
also i am running a 52 pilot jet. it back fires a lil bit when u let off the throttle real quick, but there is no spark arrestor in the muffler and i have a small crack in the one exhaust tube about 1/2'' by the front heat shield bracket

[Xplorer99]

2nd clip 210 jet is pretty good, still bogs at over 3/4 to full

[honda400ex2003]

drop down a size and see how it goes would be my recommendation until it goes away. it sounds like you are getting closer with it now. steve

[honda400ex2003]

how did it come out? steve

[Xplorer99]

ill put the 200 in it and see how it runs in the morning thanks!

[honda400ex2003]

hit us back for sure :D
steve

[JOHNDOE83]

See if this helps at all?

read the whole thing....lol.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=441780&highlight=plug

[Xplorer99]

Update: its running ok with the 200. still bogs at 3/4 to full throttle. feels like it dont have enough fuel. kinda like when ur goin fast and run outta gas and gotta flip it to reserve. anyway a couple friends told me i need to adjust the fuel enrichment screw. i was though all along that that ment the idle screw lol.

this thing is gutless compared to when i had it on 3rd notch with 200 jet. so im going to go back to that and try the fuel enrichment screw.

[JOHNDOE83]

The fuel screw wont do anything for your upper RPMs, that screw is in conjunction with the pilot jet.

Bogging is like the hesitation from being lean.

[Xplorer99]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
The fuel screw wont do anything for your upper RPMs, that screw is in conjunction with the pilot jet.

Bogging is like the hesitation from being lean.

thats what it felt like is it wasnt getting enough fuel. i put the 220 back in it and e-clip is on 3rd notch, still a little hesitant on the top end. guess ill have to get some even higher jets. i guess i do have ALOT of air coming into the motor lol. id did help noticable to go from 215 to 220, so i guess im on the right track now..

[JOHNDOE83]

you do have a few more mods then I have, it sounds unlikely that youd need more then a 220, but with the P&P you might?

I think you may be needing a better needle adjustment rather then bigger main jets?

I wish I could be there to see how its running, I could be a lil more helpful...lol.

if the bog comes in at 3/4 it may be the transition from needle to main jet that you have a problem with?

[honda400ex2003]

i think it is the needle also. the main seems to be alright with the 210 in it from the sounds of it. how does the plug look each time you are changing this stuff? are you using a new plug also to check if you are? bogging can be either way, rich or lean depending on how the bog is. imo popping and running better when cold than when it is warm is too lean. bogging is more of a rich condition. it really depends on what the plug looks like and such though. steve

[Xplorer99]

should i move to the 4th notch on needle. as of right now its running the best with the 220. elevation is 1200-1600ft.

[honda400ex2003]

may be worth a shot with the 220. steve

[Xplorer99]

220 4th notch not alot of change, maybe i just need a higher jet, ill pick up 225-240 on friday

[Xplorer99]

Originally posted by Xplorer99
220 4th notch not alot of change, maybe i just need a higher jet, ill pick up 225-240 on friday


honda only had 225 and 230. so i put the 230 in it.

4th notch:
-220 bogs at 3/4 throttle
-230 bogs at 3/4 in low gears and1/3 throttle in 4th and 5th gear


what should i try next?

[JOHNDOE83]

What type of bog are you talking about?

are you sure its not sputtering from being to rich?

[Xplorer99]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
What type of bog are you talking about?

are you sure its not sputtering from being to rich?

it feels like it dont have enough fuel, i could be wrong. when i went from 220 to 230 it had too much fuel. bogged asty just over 1/2, so 230 is too much ya

[JOHNDOE83]

try going back to 200 and see if it clears up at all?

The rich bog/sputter will be like leaving the choke on a lil.

[Xplorer99]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
try going back to 200 and see if it clears up at all?

The rich bog/sputter will be like leaving the choke on a lil.

195/200 didnt have enough fuel when i tried them with the needle on the 3rd notch, worth a try now since i have the needle on the 4th notch, ill give it a shot, thanks!!

[Xplorer99]

i threw in a 190 jet, figured id start at the bottom again, runs AMAZING now. i guess that needle makes a big difference. the only bad this is that it is a tiny bit hesitant on bottom end. if u snap the throttle real quick it bogs down. the same being at low rpm in any gear while riding, when you mash on it, it bogs slightly before it takes off. other than that its great. maybe ill try a 195 and see what happens thanks for all the help!