Pipes ?????????????

[zach R 7x]

I know this has been a well discussed topic before, but we are going to buy a new pipe this week,and i am leaning towards one certain pipe but would like to ask your opinions on which pipe is the best fit for the 2fast engine.



thanks in advance for any info.
Tim

[marsrace2]

I have the Trackside and the Hetrick Gen 3 for our 2 fast. I can not tell much difference either way but i will be Dynoing both this weekend.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Tim, You have seen mine run. Hetrick Pipe Rules! But I'd like to see you use a Technigas. :devil: Cause your rider on a faster quad means trouble for the rest of the field.
AND, for those of you that believe it is 90% rider and 10% quad - YOUR WRONG!

[zach R 7x]

Those are 2 of the 3 that i have been looking at, the other is the Profile pipe . I have heard some great things about Profile pipes but just do not know if i can justify the cost over the other two pipes. Especially if they are that close in results.

please let me know what you come up with.

thanks ,
Tim

[marsrace2]

the profile is a copy of the 1st generation Trackside pipe I can guarantee it and dont let anyone tell you different!!! It is also ALOT more money than the trackside pipe. If you can wait until after saturday I will share with you my results on the 2 Fast that Justin built for us with the new Hetrick Pipe VS The Trackside.

[zach R 7x]

Originally posted by Logan #34's Dad
Tim, You have seen mine run. Hetrick Pipe Rules! But I'd like to see you use a Technigas. :devil: Cause your rider on a faster quad means trouble for the rest of the field.
AND, for those of you that believe it is 90% rider and 10% quad - YOUR WRONG!

Thanks Rocky, you had to know this was coming!

You guys got a rocket ship for a quad ! oh... and a great little rider .....with alot of bad luck! LOL!

[zach R 7x]

Originally posted by marsrace2
the profile is a copy of the 1st generation Trackside pipe I can guarantee it and dont let anyone tell you different!!! It is also ALOT more money than the trackside pipe. If you can wait until after saturday I will share with you my results on the 2 Fast that Justin built for us with the new Hetrick Pipe VS The Trackside.

I can wait, we are taking the next two weeks off to do nothing but practice and testing. I am at the point were we are not going back to the nationals until i have a hot set up.

Tim

[marsrace2]

I will keep you posted and I will PM you my info so you can contact me for details of the results if you want.

[zach R 7x]

awesome thanks !!!!

[raidernut]

Originally posted by marsrace2
the profile is a copy of the 1st generation Trackside pipe I can guarantee it and dont let anyone tell you different!!! It is also ALOT more money than the trackside pipe. If you can wait until after saturday I will share with you my results on the 2 Fast that Justin built for us with the new Hetrick Pipe VS The Trackside.

If the Profile is a copy of the Trackside, then Ty at Profile isnt a very good copy cat, because they are definately not the same. I dont believe he copied anything and doesnt need to. And as far as price, it aint cheap, but you get what you paid for.

[marsrace2]

The 1st Generation Trackside pipe was a handbuilt cone pipe, there are only 3-4 in existance. I wont get into the story on the forum but I wouldnt pay $649.00 for a copy.

[zach R 7x]

does not matter to me who copied who!

all i know is i want the best bang for my buck. at this point i have seen all 3 perform on the track with great riders on each quad and from what i have seen they are all very close.

this is why i asked for all your opinions.

I also am a firm believer you get what you pay for ,but sometimes you can get real close with a few less dollars and to a team that is on a low budget that means alot!

[raidernut]

Originally posted by marsrace2
The 1st Generation Trackside pipe was a handbuilt cone pipe, there are only 3-4 in existance. I wont get into the story on the forum but I wouldnt pay $649.00 for a copy.

Dont really care to get into another drama story about who copied this and who copied that. What i can tell you is the price tag is directly related to the extensive labor that goes into that particular pipe. A lot of very delicate welds on some extremely thin metal, not too mention the rolling of the cones. Hard to turn a profit with hours of labor involved. Thus why the cheaper "formed" pipes are appearing.

[jandjracing]

Originally posted by raidernut
Dont really care to get into another drama story about who copied this and who copied that. What i can tell you is the price tag is directly related to the extensive labor that goes into that particular pipe. A lot of very delicate welds on some extremely thin metal, not too mention the rolling of the cones. Hard to turn a profit with hours of labor involved. Thus why the cheaper "formed" pipes are appearing.

Those original 3 to 4 handmade Trackside pipes sold for 400 to 500 each even with all the labor into them. Also a "cheaper" stamped pipe isn't cheaper for the maker untill the potential 10k in die machining is satisfied. I would go with the Trackside pipe knowing your getting the best out there for a fair price. Better isn't always more expensive.

[raidernut]

Originally posted by jandjracing
Those original 3 to 4 handmade Trackside pipes sold for 400 to 500 each even with all the labor into them. Also a "cheaper" stamped pipe isn't cheaper for the maker untill the potential 10k in die machining is satisfied. I would go with the Trackside pipe knowing your getting the best out there for a fair price. Better isn't always more expensive.

to each his own, tried both, and know the difference.

[raidernut]

Originally posted by jandjracing
Those original 3 to 4 handmade Trackside pipes sold for 400 to 500 each even with all the labor into them. Also a "cheaper" stamped pipe isn't cheaper for the maker untill the potential 10k in die machining is satisfied. I would go with the Trackside pipe knowing your getting the best out there for a fair price. Better isn't always more expensive.

10k is a mere 25 pipes

[ I would go with the Trackside pipe knowing your getting the best out there for a fair price. Better isn't always more expensive. [/B][/QUOTE]

You are exactly right better isnt always more expensive. Try the Trackside. I bet you will be completly satisfied with that product. What pipes are winning the AMA ATVA Nationals? Trackside or Hetricks. Podiums show the best at a lower price. Hope you get the best bang for your buck and hope to see you at TRACKSIDE!!!:D

[Logan #34's Dad]

The fastest quad/rider does not always make the podium. :(

[raidernut]

Originally posted by Logan #34's Dad
The fastest quad/rider does not always make the podium. :(

i hear that

Originally posted by Logan #34's Dad
The fastest quad/rider does not always make the podium. :(

Yes but soon as you get that slipper sprocket fixed you will be on the podium. He has one of the fastest minis in my opinion. I heard Logan was 40 quad lengths ahead of the rest of the field. Thats the Max in play with a great rider!!!! I wish you all the luck in the world next race Logan!!

[marsrace2]

Originally posted by raidernut
Dont really care to get into another drama story about who copied this and who copied that. What i can tell you is the price tag is directly related to the extensive labor that goes into that particular pipe. A lot of very delicate welds on some extremely thin metal, not too mention the rolling of the cones. Hard to turn a profit with hours of labor involved. Thus why the cheaper "formed" pipes are appearing.

that isnt my point, those of us here in MN who have known about this situation for 2 years are passed that. My point was more to why pay more for a copy with no better results than the lower priced original.

[marsrace2]

Originally posted by raidernut
10k is a mere 25 pipes

again not trying to argue here but when you consider it is 10k for just the cones, then paying for the materials and having the stampings done, and the couple hours of hand welding that goes into each pipe you would need to work for free and sell at least 50 pipes to break even. That is not even considering that what Trackside sells these to the dealers for is significantly less than the $400 retail price.


Boy did we get off track here.

[raidernut]

I have had both pipes in my possession at the same time, and did apples to apples testing with both a highly modded 70 and a 90. My results were not on a unrealistic dyno, but actual measured timed runs backed up by radar readings.The tests were done on asphalt to eliminate the traction loss element. I just dug out my notes from last year when i performed this, and it showed the Profile pipe on the 70 compared to the trackside was 2 tenths quicker from 0-200 feet, and a half of second from 0-500 feet. The profile was also good for 1 mph. On the 90 the results were more impressive, from 0-200 they were almost identical, but from 0-500 it was nearly a full second quicker and 2 mph on the top end. These tests were done over a period of hours with jetting and clutching changes accordingly. My son hated me that day! Any how if they are indeed copies, i will stick with the copy that out performed the other in a REAL world test on both the 70 and the 90. The gentlemans original question was recommendations on what pipe is the best to get, and the testing doesnt lie. Now if you have results that differ from mine from a real world pipe to pipe comparison i would love to hear them.

Yes we did get off track, but these friendly debates are often beneficial for those about to spend hard earned money on a product. No offense taken by me, as i do not offer opinions unless if have proven them myself with testing.

[raidernut]

With this all being said, dont get the wrong impression, im not at all saying that the trackside did not perform well because it did and is a damn good pipe. Im merely saying that it did not perform as well as the profile and the difference in cost was worth the extra money to me. Sure you can get a decent pipe for less money, but if you are racing at a national level, against national caliber riders you get what performs the best for you and ebay your wifes jewelery to make up the difference:D

[marsrace2]

haha, if my wife only had any real Jewelry to sell.

Mark was this with a stop watch or timing lights? 2 tenths could be your reaction with stop watch and changing the clutch could change alot also. It works best on yours but you use Tommy alley right? That same pipe may be wrong for other motors as the Trackside is a bolt and go. Works with all motors. Im not in it Im just asking. We had 2 trackside pipes and yes Trackside is a great pipe I KNOW!! Never used a Profile but Cole Shake did or does right?

And please Mark dont take this the wrong way. I know you know your stuff. But I was just asking not getting on you or anything just asking. 400 and 650 is a big difference thats half again the price and the fast riders here use Hetrick or Trackside and they are 400 dollar pipes. Glad we dont run nationals sounds like a little money maker for the tracks to me. I dont have a rich blood line like most people racing. And if I did we still would NOT waste that kind of money for a little ole plaque.

[doonanracing]

Don't forget the PCS exhaust. We have a Malossi Motor and had both a Trackside and a PCS exhaust system to test out this past fall and early spring. The Trackside had amazing power but we also got good results from the rider using the PCS exhaust. I did not dyno the motor with either as not concerned with that more than how my son feels on he atv and actually track results etc. My son was more comfortable with the power delivery with the PCS exhaust system as it seemed smoother from top to bottom (more like a 4 stroke power delivery if you can follow me), where the Trackside seemed to have a slower hit than it just took off (like a Banshee if anyone used to race those and would understand). If your son rides wide open then I also might suggest the Trackside, but if he uses allot of throttle control then we actually liked the PCS more as it seemed to have allot better bottom and mid range power and seemed fine up top also in comparison. We have raced TT and MX this season using the PCS exhaust and have had good results using the PCS system. I am sure the Hetrick is a great exhaust and if Logan was using it at the last MX National at Steel City then it obviously works well. Just another system to concider. I have learned you must pick a system, motor, suspension that works for your rider and type of racing as what works for someone may not be what you are looking for. Just a thought and hope this helps also.

[raidernut]

Toby i understand what your trying to say, but I really dont want to go into any more details on how i do my testing, as it has been a key part to our success for the past 6 seasons. I can assure you however that it is done in such a way to eliminate human error. Again im not saying that the trackside pipe is not good and is well worth the $400. Im just saying that in my testing that it did not perform as well, and the difference would relate to several bike lengths in a holeshot. It doesnt really have much bearing as to who my engine builder is, as i took the time to optimize the clutching to suit the pipes. Again to each his own, and choose your pipe based on your budget, and feedback from ALL of us. I am happy with the fact that most people dont want to shell out for the profile, gives us that little edge:D

[raidernut]

Originally posted by doonanracing
Don't forget the PCS exhaust. We have a Malossi Motor and had both a Trackside and a PCS exhaust system to test out this past fall and early spring. The Trackside had amazing power but we also got good results from the rider using the PCS exhaust. I did not dyno the motor with either as not concerned with that more than how my son feels on he atv and actually track results etc. My son was more comfortable with the power delivery with the PCS exhaust system as it seemed smoother from top to bottom (more like a 4 stroke power delivery if you can follow me), where the Trackside seemed to have a slower hit than it just took off (like a Banshee if anyone used to race those and would understand). If your son rides wide open then I also might suggest the Trackside, but if he uses allot of throttle control then we actually liked the PCS more as it seemed to have allot better bottom and mid range power and seemed fine up top also in comparison. We have raced TT and MX this season using the PCS exhaust and have had good results using the PCS system. I am sure the Hetrick is a great exhaust and if Logan was using it at the last MX National at Steel City then it obviously works well. Just another system to concider. I have learned you must pick a system, motor, suspension that works for your rider and type of racing as what works for someone may not be what you are looking for. Just a thought and hope this helps also.

I havent had the opportunity to test the PCS, but i have heard it is a good pipe as well.

[marsrace2]

Originally posted by doonanracing
Don't forget the PCS exhaust. We have a Malossi Motor and had both a Trackside and a PCS exhaust system to test out this past fall and early spring. The Trackside had amazing power but we also got good results from the rider using the PCS exhaust. I did not dyno the motor with either as not concerned with that more than how my son feels on he atv and actually track results etc. My son was more comfortable with the power delivery with the PCS exhaust system as it seemed smoother from top to bottom (more like a 4 stroke power delivery if you can follow me), where the Trackside seemed to have a slower hit than it just took off (like a Banshee if anyone used to race those and would understand). If your son rides wide open then I also might suggest the Trackside, but if he uses allot of throttle control then we actually liked the PCS more as it seemed to have allot better bottom and mid range power and seemed fine up top also in comparison. We have raced TT and MX this season using the PCS exhaust and have had good results using the PCS system. I am sure the Hetrick is a great exhaust and if Logan was using it at the last MX National at Steel City then it obviously works well. Just another system to concider. I have learned you must pick a system, motor, suspension that works for your rider and type of racing as what works for someone may not be what you are looking for. Just a thought and hope this helps also.

that sound to me like it wasnt clutched right with the trackside. In the end there are alot of great pipes out there and talking to your engine builder and getting his feedback on what he wants with the motor is also a good way to go.

Originally posted by raidernut
Toby i understand what your trying to say, but I really dont want to go into any more details on how i do my testing, as it has been a key part to our success for the past 6 seasons. I can assure you however that it is done in such a way to eliminate human error. Again im not saying that the trackside pipe is not good and is well worth the $400. Im just saying that in my testing that it did not perform as well, and the difference would relate to several bike lengths in a holeshot. It doesnt really have much bearing as to who my engine builder is, as i took the time to optimize the clutching to suit the pipes. Again to each his own, and choose your pipe based on your budget, and feedback from ALL of us. I am happy with the fact that most people dont want to shell out for the profile, gives us that little edge:D

I understand Mark,. You done your home work. Porting means alot on which pipe you buy. Then clutching to that motor. We use a dragstrip which tells 60ft 330 ft and 660 feet lol. I know a few gagets that you can sit on the ground with your rpm guage and it reads results like real track time. It helps alot!! Im done thats all I was wondering Mark. good luck this season. Tell Buddy I said hi.

[raidernut]

Ya there is no substitute for good old fashioned power to the ground testing. A Dyno is a good tool, and gives alot of important information, but i would rather rely on real life rider on bike data. My son however would tell you otherwise. When i tell him we are going to do some testing, he knows his day is done. We got away from it for a while, and our recent races have shown. We did a bunch last weekend, and hopefully it will pay off this weekend at round 6 of the worcs series this weekend. Good luck to you all, and remember to have fun doing it.

[zach R 7x]

I did take the pcs pipe into consideration,but i am basing my picks off what i saw over this past weekend and the people that i talked to with these fast quads.

I do believe Cole is running the profile pipe and yes he is fast! I did see him run,but did not get to see his times compared to the other fast kids.

I know these are all great pipes and have a tuff decsision to make with my money , but almost feel i can't go wrong either way.

thanks for all the info guys.

tim

[jandjracing]

Originally posted by raidernut
The tests were done on asphalt to eliminate the traction loss element.

Those unrealistic dynos typically don't lie. They show where your torque curves are which help on muddy, rutted, and uphill tracks. I will have to remember that pipe if we ever get into asphalt drag racing. In the meantime, I will keep watching the head to head race to the first corner in the dirt and up the hills.

[thequadfather+2]

we use PCS on both our 70 and 90. As mentioned above it is a good torque pipe with a broad power range. It doesnt turn the high RPM's some pipes do but doesnt seem to need it. The 90 has a Malossi kit and the 70 has the stage 6 sport-pro, which is a pretty basic cylinder and not nearly as aggressive as their other cylinders.

On the 90 in Pell city we topped the hill in a three-way tie about 6-7th. In Kentucky the 90 went into the first turn (heat 1) in third. The Malossi is straight out of the box without any work on the cylinder or cases, Hag intake and 28mm carb.....Also on those old snow-blower tires:D Hey if it was a race to the first turn or jump we would have done fine....instead it was 4 laps and the cream rose to the top.

The fast quads may run this pipe or that one but give the kids and mechanics credit, it aint the pipe keeping them out front. When the kid is fast and the bike is reliable they'll be the one holding that useless plaque (as it is often called) that everyone keeps chasing.

JMO...emphasis on the "O"

We run a bunch of smaller and intermediate tracks along with some arena cross. The pipe works well for our use and seems to be applicable to different set-ups and tracks, ect..

Is it the pipe of all pipes? I dont think so but it sure covers allot of ground.

[raidernut]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jandjracing
I will have to remember that pipe if we ever get into asphalt drag racing.

I dont care to get into a discussion with you Mr.French on my testing methods. I do them a certain way for a reason. I have been doing this for a long time, and am very confident in my ability to dial in a CVT mini. If you dont have anything constructive to add to the discussion maybe you should not enter it. I have a very vivid memory, and it was your attitude in 2006 at round 1 of the ATVA Nationals that almost turned us away from racing. We were attending our first ATVA national and parked next to you and were completely lost on what to do. We attempted to ask you some simple questions and you turned us away like we were scum. We ended up getting put on the right path from Stan Digby. Left a bad taste in my mouth, but fortunately we stuck with it and found that most of the racing community will bend over backwards to help you.

[jandjracing]

Originally posted by raidernut
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jandjracing
I will have to remember that pipe if we ever get into asphalt drag racing.

I dont care to get into a discussion with you Mr.French on my testing methods. I do them a certain way for a reason. I have been doing this for a long time, and am very confident in my ability to dial in a CVT mini. If you dont have anything constructive to add to the discussion maybe you should not enter it. I have a very vivid memory, and it was your attitude in 2006 at round 1 of the ATVA Nationals that almost turned us away from racing. We were attending our first ATVA national and parked next to you and were completely lost on what to do. We attempted to ask you some simple questions and you turned us away like we were scum. We ended up getting put on the right path from Stan Digby. Left a bad taste in my mouth, but fortunately we stuck with it and found that most of the racing community will bend over backwards to help you.

I wish I could remember that conversation, but I don't. I was pretty lost at that point also. I apologize if I came off rude to you then. I don't usually have a bad attitude, might have been from Mr. Anderson. And I do try and bend over backwards for people. Thats why I promote the trackside pipe along with its savings on the wallet. You were favoring and advising the Profile over the Trackside based on an asphalt run. I was not knocking the test for yourself and your own gains. I have my own methods also. I was merely poking holes in the test method for testing an MX pipe. I call that constructive. The asphalt racing comment was just my smart assed nature. Nothing personal now or then-

[raidernut]

Well i do appreciate the delayed apology, and we will consider the matter closed. As far as my "asphalt testing" it is only a component of how i do my testing and i use it to get mph readings. I live on a plot of land in the desert of california and do plenty of dirt testing as well. I was not promoting the profile based on the "asphalt" test alone, as we have done a little bit of racing in our time as well. I have no connection or sponsorship from Profile, just sharing our experience and test results for the rest.

PS. I fell your pain with Mr. Anderson as well, and if there ever was a good excuse to be rude, that is acceptable:p

[mini racer #39]

i vote for WRH race pipe it did and still does us a good job

[Logan #34's Dad]

Has Billy made a pipe for the basic, non-ported, stock 2fast set up? If he has, I'd like to try that sucka cause i'm sure he can get it right.
Also, ppl have gotten away from the question. The writer wants to know what is the best pipe for the 2FAST. Not the best pipe.
And, until someone uses a crank style dyno to where clutching is not a factor, dyno results will always very.
Why don't these "Dyno Guys" get a cog belt type system for the crank and one for the clutch, put a cog style belt (like a Harley) with a tentioner. it would make the wheels turn all the time but this would take clutching out of the mix. So, in therory, if you make a change (such as a pipe or carb) it would show on the results. Once you get the best OR desired output numbers you then clutch for those numbers.
I don't know, maybe i'm dreaming but it does not sound all that hard to do.

[qcitytile]

Rocky I dont think you need any more help with that motor LOL I have no experience with the 2 fast but on our malossi motor our billy holt pipe out performed the track side pipe really close but the wrh made more low end. Now if I could only get it clutched right. Ill pay ya rocky lol

[mini racer #39]

rocky you seen erik and hunter both run his new pipe for the 2 fast last year. we prototyped it and it is now for sale this year and his price BEATS all the others #39 and #21 took most off the holeshots and only one other bike came even close to hunters top end the WRH 2 fast motor and pipe are hard to beat thanks jerry ps thanks rocky for saving my butt on the line at ILL. all in all best pipe for a 2fast mild or wild is WRH 2010 jmho

[marsrace2]

how much are they and will Billy sell them to someone that doesnt have his motor?

[mini racer #39]

yes his pipes are for sale his # 1-251-675-9906 call for price please thanks jerry

[mushinracing]

well well . if your on a budget and your goal is to get better at the nationals. than buy one of the less expensive pipes and take your change and get your rider some pro training since you got 2 weeks off .this will be the best investment you can make. it dont matter how fast your quad is if he cant hang on and finish strong than that high dollar pipe wont do much good. Invest that extra change in your kid not something that will be changed by next year.
jerimah jones should fit anyones budget!
email him at slick23racing@hotmail.com

[zach R 7x]

Originally posted by mushinracing
well well . if your on a budget and your goal is to get better at the nationals. than buy one of the less expensive pipes and take your change and get your rider some pro training since you got 2 weeks off .this will be the best investment you can make. it dont matter how fast your quad is if he cant hang on and finish strong than that high dollar pipe wont do much good. Invest that extra change in your kid not something that will be changed by next year.
jerimah jones should fit anyones budget!
email him at slick23racing@hotmail.com

Scott,
not sure how to take this post!? YES,i am on a budget, i think alot of people who attend the nationals are on a budget of some sorts.

I feel that we are a pipe and some tunning away from running up front, I also feel i have the rider to run up front and win races in any cvt class right now!

yes, i believe that training is a big key but i also believe that you do not need to spend $500 dollars at a pro riders corse to get faster.

I may be taking this post the wrong way , if you have seen my son ride and you feel that his skills are not up to the front riders then that is your opinion and i will take it as that.

thanks to everybody for the info on the pipes,

Tim Romell

[Logan #34's Dad]

Hey Tim, I don't think Scott was talking about your rider.

But, My two sense on the more training for your rider thing is:

I DO believe you need a good rider BUT if your don't have the motor to keep up with the top few riders then your not gonna keep up period. In other words, in JUST four laps a "super" rider that comes out of the holeshot in 8th place is NEVER going to catch the leaders that pulled out and their engines continue to pull them throughout the track while the super rider's engine does not pull them.
This theory I hear all the time: Its 90% Rider - 10% Quad is crap!
There are some VERY good riders on slow quads that can't crack the top 5 AND there are some average riders finishing in the top 5 that have monster motors.

I'll even give an example. Tanner Stockton. Great rider on an okay - not the best tuned - engine early in the season and did not run with the front pack. Now, got it tuned right and he ran up front convincingly at Steel City where his ability allows.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule but as a whole, you've got to have a great powerplant to compete with the leaders.

[mushinracing]

im not putting down your boy he is a great rider and as far as rocky talking about 90% rider 10% quad i dont agree with that either take cole shake in kentucky he was on a terd came out back in the pack and within 4 laps caught the fastest kid in the class and won. prime example agian you have a fast quad and your kid can run it but breaks it before he finishes where pro training comes in to play is the teacher will teach your kid to know when to go fast and when to take it easy there for saving the bike so it can finish and still win! the post was pipes and i gave my 2 cense in .i have everyone of those pipes and motors and for what he is trying to get done i beleive a cheaper pipe tuned right with some rider training , that you would have the best package . hell look at anyone who wins championships and ask them what won there championships. "TRAINING and Support"
there isnt a huge differance with the 90 like there is with a sevnetys thats is if you really have the rider!

[mushinracing]

and jj dont charge that kind of cash he is really affordable and he will work with anyone.plus his little boy is now riding now

[Logan #34's Dad]

I believe your wrong Scott. Now, of course, they all could use some great training from a professional. As far as Cole's ride in Ky, yes that engine was a turd at the start but it was real fast once it got rolling.
I believe that if your engine is not pulling hard then your not gonna win. Now, in a pro race or pro-am race with more laps or on a long track a better rider on a lesser quad can close a gap but the way the trend is with making the tracks easier with more tabletops and less doubles or "difference makers" without the engine being top notch, the great rider on an average running quad will have a real hard time catching and beating the leaders in four laps. Jmo

[zach R 7x]

I'M OUT!

[mushinracing]

prime example rocky logan was in a differant time zone and still lost the race. some good quality training would teach him when your that far out front you dont have to smash every face of a double that cant be maid and save the motor , look at tyler mack , he gets out front then takes it easy to save his equipment , thats how he has done it almost every time . we are out of the points race but i think you still have a chance if logan can just slow down a bit . i think your getting moto x and wrestling confused

[Logan #34's Dad]

Well, Logan learned a valuable lesson last race and after the fact, i explained it to him. He understood. Best part, the lesson was free. Learn by experience i guess.
We now do not have a chance to win the 90cvt title SO we'll show up and try to win all the rest and let the chips fall where they may. We cannot afford to travel to MN so that will be another drop. Which pretty much guarantees we cannot win it. Now we'll be able to come to the line and push it as hard as possible and if something fails - so be it. In the end, everyone will know who is the fastest.
I'm now at the point in that class that it will be fun. I guess someone else will win the war but we hope to win alot of battles.

[zach R 7x]

I wanted to stay out of this discussion,but just have to give my .02!
Scott, I believe you have a rider in your stable that rides the same way, I do not want to through out names hear on this website but most people know who i am talking about. This rider is a great rider and is arguably the fastest rider on a cvt . with that being said he also rides the crap out of the quad and either breaks or wins, no consistency. He will be a kid we will hear about for years to come in alot more than just cvt's . So isn't this the same senario as what happened to Logan?

What I do agree with Rocky on , is if you can get your kid out front in the holeshot and not in 8th place you have alot better chance of winning and keeping the quad together. That is were we are at ,I have a good motor and rider , need a pipe that will give me the bottom end power, so that i can change the way i tune my clutchs,and my rider will do the rest! that was why i started this thread, we have some pipes being worked on in house right now ,but pipes take time to get right and we need something now ,not later. so why not get what avalible and run with it?

I understand were you are coming from about the practice, but you still need a great powerplant to win races at this level. You will see this alot more as we get to towards the end of the season, from what i saw last weekend people are getting these cvt figured out and the races are getting tighter and tighter.

REMEMBER JMHO!!!!

Tim

[marsrace2]

so back to the original question, this weekend I tested a trackside pipe, and a Hetrick gen 3 pipe on the Dyno. Both pipes that I own and on our 2fast motor the Trackside was better.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Where was it better? Horsepower, torque, both. And did you take the clutching factor away?

[marsrace2]

no way to take clutching factor away, it was actually pretty interesting because the horsepower and torque lines were almost identical on both pipes, the Trackside pipe just made a little more everywhere. When I rode the quad on the ground with both pipes I couldnt tell a difference but then again I am a little too big for it.

[rookiewrench]

Rocky,
I think that both you and Scott are both right but the class in which you run will make a larger difference. In the cvt class motor is more of an issue than it would be in the shifter classes. I will take some good riding classes for Alec over the motor work just because I beleive that is where it makes the difference. I have seen Brett Musick on a Cobra 80 motor beat Chase Horton with his RMZ Wiley 90 motor and the RMZ motor undoubtably makes more power but with Brett being a better rider he was able to win most every race against Chase. Now I am not saying that Chase is not a great rider in his own right but Brett is just that much better on an inferior motor machine. I also think that the motor takes a larger roll in the CVT class over ability. If I could afford to I would do both.

Just my $.02

Good luck on finding the best pipe for your son to get him up to where he needs and deserves to be.

[rookiewrench]

I beleive that there is a CVT crank dyno out there somewhere!!!
Huh

[mushinracing]

well i guess thats why there are differant strokes for differant folks. just thought i could help. and in no way was i downing your son he looks great but anyone of the kids in that class could use training and as far as running in the front i think only the kids can figure that one out . watch out for maci , cole and tanner i believe they will be running that class here shortly 1,2,3 is the way i see it
but thats why we race the nats to win. good luck to all

Rocky it must be nice knowing Logan has the fastest mini. Logans riding and MAXIMUM RPMs hands on it. Well that's the best combination possible. Good luck and remember "who's chasing Who".

[mushinracing]

yeah buddy we will see who chasing who. why dont you get off your lazy chair and come race!!!!!!!!!

Quit running your lips and prove a point Scott. All you have done was run your lips with nothing to show. Why waste all that time running your lips when you should use your time wisely. Scared money wont buy a championship?

[marsrace2]

ahh, another constructive discussion on this forum, gotta love it.

[mushinracing]

the point will be proven at millville, will you be there or do you even race moto x? you must not know me or you would know i back up everything i say. what im not allowed to speak openly on a public forum? or did i offend you im sorry you have thin skin!!!!

No I have regular skin like yours. We are both human. I think you also put your pants on the same way as I do. Maybe not but I would hope. I know you have all the money in the world. But what's not being taking into consideration is money don't win championships. The rider and the motor builds and attendance is what makes a championship. Which you have the riders but do you have the motors and attendance That I do not know. We do not race moto x we drag race now. But GOOD LUCK. And have a good night Scott. And I will be watching your guys/gals win as you stated. Now I hope your not letting all of us down.I'm keeping your WORD.

[thequadfather+2]

:huh :eek: Gee, what about the weather these days and that crazy oil spill in the Gulf.......man what a mess.

:D

[mushinracing]

50 ltd #27
70cvt#60
90cvt#32-#917-#9-#15,
90 auto jr #27,
90auto sr#917-#9-#15,
90 production#9-#15,
70 mod #27,
90mod #32,
super-mini #88-#21,
schoolboy jr #88,
schoolboy sr#21,#48
colleage boy #55
pro-am unlimted #728- #22
pro-am productin#728-#22
pro #40-#84
so toby here ya go so you know our numbers have fun wacthing from home
and i think my actions speak a hell of alot louder than my words
and ya really dont need looking at race results just check in the news!!!!!

[zach R 7x]

Hey Scott, I have nothing against you and or your team, hell i feel as i am friends with most of the people on your team ! You may think in your OWN mind you are giving advice ,but when you come on a thread that somebody is asking opinions on engine parts and you tell them to save their money and buy riding lessons for there kid , I take that as an cut on my sons riding ability! If i took it the wrong way I apologize, but when it comes to my kids i take everything seriously.

good luck in minnesota, you got a great team of riders and i am sure your team will do well, at this point don't know when or if we will be back at the nationals !

I out for good this time!

Tim Romell

Ok good luck Scott and team members. Im sure you all will do good. Now lets get along Scott. You have a great team. And truthfully I wont be really looking for your crew. But good luck. It could go to anyone. Never know when somethings going to give or what ever else happens to these minis. So good luck to all thats going to Mellville. Its any kids win. Just please all be safe. Then have fun.

[#404's Dad]

Originally posted by DINLI MAXIRACER
Quit running your lips and prove a point Scott. All you have done was run your lips with nothing to show.

O M F G ! ! ! Are YOU Serious?

[marsrace2]

at one point in time this thread was about pipes?:ermm:

[#404's Dad]

Originally posted by marsrace2
at one point in time this thread was about pipes?:ermm:

Pipe threads never go good even for the big quads, too many opinions and not many facts to back them up, everyone thinks the pipe they have is the best, just the way it is, most have never even tried another pipe apples to apples.

[marsrace2]

pipe threads always go bad but this one went to a different level.

[bignasty]

My turn...if some one wants to shate their info on WHR Pipe send me a PM We have one but cant make the engine run with it.

[bignasty]

Mushin...bring that team out west and put them in a 40 min. moto lay it out on the line and see the human factor we deal with out west. The bike should then take care of themselves, if that's what your insinuating......:D :D :D

[Scro]

I think there's enough info here for the OP to make a decision, if he can wade through all the BS:ermm: