Need help my frame cracked above the front bumper

[bwkcobra03]

Need help my frame cracked above the front bumper.

I just noticed my frame broke by the front bumper near the the control arm brackets. the dealer told me i need a new frame and there are no recalls for this problem. does anyone have a fix for me. It looks like the same problem in the other post for the reinforcement plate is to correct.
Thanks

[TNT]

Of course theres no recall, to fix this correctly would mean quite an expensive re-design in parts and labor. First off, the parts that are failing around the bolt or in the area, the bolt size is too big for the thin frame that would take re-issuing both RH/LH frame assemblies to all quads to install a smaller huck bolt which most dealers do not have the gun(tool). Second, in the picture below you can see a poor attempt to fix the problem on 2010 models but it doesn’t really since this new 2010 z-channel(shown in pic) needs to extend up the frame more and another lock-bolt that would need to be issued to all year models. The cost here significant!

So the best retro-fit field fix for us is as described above and what I would do. I’d drill out the existing loc-bolts, reorder the existing frame part(s) as needed and the 2010 z-channel(in pic) or make a better one out of steel. The existing new frame will have the existing bolt hole drilled install a same size grade A steel bolt as show in the pic. Add another bolt shown in red of the next smaller diameter, make sure it is 2 times the diameter to the edge of the Z and 4 times to the adjacent bolt or as close as possible. That will keep the frame from bending around the one bolt in the current design and cracking.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/Presentation1-3.jpg


There are other fixes out there guys have tried from welding support gussets to filling the frames with a composite material if you’re interested I can post some pics of the weld and point you to the composite fill guy that is still being tested. The weld blocks the radiator a bit and may fail in time, the fill adds a little weight.

[florentino]

Originally posted by bwkcobra03
Need help my frame cracked above the front bumper.

I just noticed my frame broke by the front bumper near the the control arm brackets. the dealer told me i need a new frame and there are no recalls for this problem. does anyone have a fix for me. It looks like the same problem in the other post for the reinforcement plate is to correct.
Thanks

if you replace the parts they will break again. thats how it is on this frame. the best way is to find a good new frame and put the gusset kit. once that piece breaks the whole frame starts to fall apart really no joke. p.s. how do you like the ds now?
so now you know what i feal and why i talk so much trash on this frame. cause some how we are all breaking frames.

[Blizzard24]

Originally posted by bwkcobra03
Need help my frame cracked above the front bumper.

I just noticed my frame broke by the front bumper near the the control arm brackets. the dealer told me i need a new frame and there are no recalls for this problem. does anyone have a fix for me. It looks like the same problem in the other post for the reinforcement plate is to correct.
Thanks


Since florentino just wants to talk trash and not HELP, try calling BCS Performance, they can get just the pieces you need, not the whole frame.
Not sure if the new reinforcement plate will help or not but someone did gusset this area and we havent heard of his frame breaking again.

florentino... again, you obviously hate the quad, get rid of it, find a fix for it or just park it but stop coming on to this forum and trying to rally everyone that has an issue to your dislike of the DS450, it is getting real old.

[TNT]

We've seen some that can repair this area fine so I would not say if you fail it you need a new frame, just depends on how it affected the rest of the frame when it failed. If you got a good welder this guy below has some success so far, bear in mind this grade and wall thickness of AL is not the best to weld. His son races toward the top TQRA MX class last we heard it's doing well.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/Presentation2-1.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/DScrackfixrats.jpg

Thats the old z-channel shown I still get the new one and do as I described above then you could reduce the size of the gussets and keep them out of the air path to the radiator.

[florentino]

Originally posted by Blizzard24
Since florentino just wants to talk trash and not HELP, try calling BCS Performance, they can get just the pieces you need, not the whole frame.
Not sure if the new reinforcement plate will help or not but someone did gusset this area and we havent heard of his frame breaking again.

florentino... again, you obviously hate the quad, get rid of it, find a fix for it or just park it but stop coming on to this forum and trying to rally everyone that has an issue to your dislike of the DS450, it is getting real old.

no i said that if you replace the pieces they will fail again.
correct me if i am wrong. i do what tnt has in his pic.
yes i know its getting really old. its not just my frame. it looks like just about every frame is broken in i less then 2 years.
what can i say frame sucks. i am ok with the quad.
i have been racing the ds with 3 broken spots. it seems like the hillbilly 1/4 thick skid plate sure help to make the frame stronger.
i also put bigger bolts that hold the bumper.
i am almost done with my hybrid frame i will show it only after i does not fail on me to help more riders out.
and one more thing the other day i raced a stock ltr on moto 1 and the ds on moto 2 on one ugly track. and on the ltr i felt sooo slow but i was on fire and pass riders like nothing and where doing better lap times then some kid that is faster than me.
bottom line i am always testing. have you notice that i got like 100 replys one time taking about my frame. well some times thats what it takes to get peple to reply. at the end of the day we learn something. i have a insider guy from motoworks telling me how the frame was breaking long time ago. but they dont tell anyone cause they are making money.
and can am has to step up and make a better frame not some gusset that helps.

[blaster99]

Originally posted by florentino
no i said that if you replace the pieces they will fail again.

what can i say frame sucks. i am ok with the quad.

and can am has to step up and make a better frame not some gusset that helps.


Seems like your bashing to me. Honestly, there is no reason why the parts will fail again if you replace them, especially if you keep every nut and bolt tight.

I think people aren't realizing that this quad was designed for racing. Real and serious mx or xc racing, and with serious racing, comes serious maintenance. This quad is VERY high maintenance compared to others such as Honda and Suzuki, but look how much better the can-am works! If you were to check all of your nuts and bolts on he frame and motor mounts, I personally guarantee it that your frames wont break.

[TNT]

Originally posted by blaster99
Seems like your bashing to me. Honestly, there is no reason why the parts will fail again if you replace them, especially if you keep every nut and bolt tight.

I think people aren't realizing that this quad was designed for racing. Real and serious mx or xc racing, and with serious racing, comes serious maintenance. This quad is VERY high maintenance compared to others such as Honda and Suzuki, but look how much better the can-am works! If you were to check all of your nuts and bolts on he frame and motor mounts, I personally guarantee it that your frames wont break.

Yes and no, one GREAT thing about this quad as marketed is the "permanent loc-bolt"....they have a swaged on collar vs welds and on the DS carry the bulk of the loads, it's a sin to have to replace them w/bolts/nuts to repair....We use them in aircraft, they are extremely strong and require no maintenance, they take 170-190 KSI of load in tension, bolts/nuts about 1/3 less.....Most of this quad is designed in tension or compression due to pyrimad and rely on the load carring capibility of the fastener as rated....In the case above the permanent fastener did not fail the too thin frame did and we are seeing ALOT but the way the fastener is place caused this frame failure per design. I can't think of a loose fastener that would keep it from happening again all hucks up here. I've designed ALOT of structure I can see the design error here and at the engine mount, any structural designer can see it.....I don't understand why BRP did not fix it on the 2010 model....hopefully 2011. I heard there is new loads model and I can't understand how the 2008 one missed this. :rolleyes:

You and I have not seen this yet under heavy MX that probably depends on the tolerance our frames were built to, better than some or we just have not hit it right yet......If I was not so lazy and I still may take some prevention measures...Good news is there are some fixes if it does and we get the parts from BCS.

[ratsracung6]

Yes Terry my gussets are still holding up (nock on wood).

Tyler has been out with a broken wrist so we missed 2 races,
but we are back now he raced at badlands and took it easy and the wrist and quad are good. So Angel Ridge here we come.

[John Noftsinger]

How are the kawi,s holding up to the Ds450 frames? and is the kawi better design?The kawi use,s both steel/alum?

[TNT]

Originally posted by John Noftsinger
How are the kawi,s holding up to the Ds450 frames? and is the kawi better design?The kawi use,s both steel/alum?

I'd say no welds are not better, the DS technology is far superior it for the most part holds up but has a few weak areas they need to iron out and I have confidence they will. One battle I have seen alot in aircraft is the amount AL expands and contracts compared to steel. Right now we are battling the differene with Al-to-carbon composite @ -45 F on an aircraft, not that quads see that but still the difference between a 40 F - 90 F day can mean some significant flex under load. Steel - Al will depend on the thicknesses, some fasteners may not take it or get pre-loaded in tension when going through a AL/steel stack up and bust out under riding load eventually I seen this.

BTW: The mechanical properties I am referring to are called the Modulus of Elasticity(it's ability to flex/deform and hold molecules together), Creep Strength(it's elastic range where it begins to fail/creep/deform), Limit load (amount of load to produce creep), and Ultimate Load(failure). If a quad is designed right there will be safety margin or it will fail @ some percentage beyond Ultimate Load, usually tested to 10- 30% marin as weight permits. Thats the challange keeping the weight down reliability up to not discourge customers....you can see how the DS is struggling with that as will the rest of the OEM's Kawi included.

:)

[busarider363]

hey the same thing happend to me and i got a new frame i have the old one in the barn so if its the other side from mine i can help you out email me at ne123@yahoo.com and i will give you my phone number and he can talk