North South Challenge

[LT80]

How is this working out so far?

[EthansDad]

The south shall rise again! :D

I dunno, so far its Ok. no real change in things. We have seen a bunch of south riders drop off in IL, the first north series in our class, so I'm guess some folks are going for only north OR south titles.

-EA

[Ryko racing]

Not much change in the top runners as they will go to all of the races thus the rider that wins the nat championship could also win north and south.

we just hope we can be back to race

[Logan #34's Dad]

My Opinion: The way the AMA decided to do it makes no sense. (Mandatory that a rider must compete in ALL the series races to be eligible for year end awards) If Logan wins 4 races but can't make one of the 5 he is not eligible for the year end awards. Dumb.
I emailed the AMA w no luck.
Another scenario: If I had only planned to run the North series and I happen to have one DNF and one average finish, why go to anymore in the series?
One more scenario: If I looked at the schedule and knew I could not make just one of the races inside either series, why go at all if I cannot compete for the overall championship?

On the bright side: Its nice to see new faces and competitors. But I predict that the two races before Loretta's it will be just the regular circus followers like myself.
:p

[nastynotchback1]

Originally posted by Logan #34's Dad
My Opinion: The way the AMA decided to do it makes no sense. (Mandatory that a rider must compete in ALL the series races to be eligible for year end awards) If Logan wins 4 races but can't make one of the 5 he is not eligible for the year end awards. Dumb.
I emailed the AMA w no luck.
Another scenario: If I had only planned to run the North series and I happen to have one DNF and one average finish, why go to anymore in the series?
One more scenario: If I looked at the schedule and knew I could not make just one of the races inside either series, why go at all if I cannot compete for the overall championship?

On the bright side: Its nice to see new faces and competitors. But I predict that the two races before Loretta's it will be just the regular circus followers like myself.
:p

You go because the kids love to do it no matter what.You don't do it to relive your glory days or live through you kid.Just my .02

[Logan #34's Dad]

Originally posted by nastynotchback1
You go because the kids love to do it no matter what.You don't do it to relive your glory days or live through you kid.Just my .02

There is a fine line between living "my glory days" through my kid and wanting to give him an opportunity that I never had. And trying to make that opportunity the best that I can for him with the resourses I have been able accomplish.
And Nasty, what does your comment have to do with the question posed on this thread?

[nastynotchback1]

Originally posted by Logan #34's Dad
There is a fine line between living "my glory days" through my kid and wanting to give him an opportunity that I never had. And trying to make that opportunity the best that I can for him with the resourses I have been able accomplish.
And Nasty, what does your comment have to do with the question posed on this thread?

Not trying to piss you off.My comment has nothing to do with the original question but neither did yours.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Originally posted by LT80
How is this working out so far?

how is my response not answer this question?

[edwardsp&b]

I think the North vs. South was a good idea and could use some tweaking to do better. The problem is that most of the regulars go to all the races, therefore they qualify for both. And lets just face it, most locals cant run with the top national kids.

Maybe keep the North vs. South, but make it apply to the region you live in. In other words, a north kid could win the north series and the overall but not the south. That would give locals a little more incentive to come out. Right now my prediction is that whoever the national champ is for that class, they will most likely win both regions.

I dont know, and im sure the AMA could care less about my tiny opinion.
See yall in PA

ps. This southern boy has never been up north pass the mason-dixon line, should make for some good stories and laughs.

bryan

[Logan #34's Dad]

I like your idea of only being able to win one or the other by where you live.
I just disagree with having to do ALL the series races to be eligible to win either one. like i said, you could win 4 of the 5 races and not make one of the five and not win the Championship. I think that would keep ppl away from even trying. Just my opinion.

[marsrace2]

Originally posted by nastynotchback1
You go because the kids love to do it no matter what.You don't do it to relive your glory days or live through you kid.Just my .02

Rocky, I think he was actually trying to compliment you here, or at least thats the way I read it.

[marsrace2]

tell Logan good luck from us this weekend, even though we arent motocrossers we are always pulling for the other Max RPM riders.

[Logan #34's Dad]

will do. Thanks!

[d1g888]

i told them that we should have had 1 drop for the north and one for the south

Originally posted by Logan #34's Dad
will do. Thanks!

And you know you always have my best wishes for logan. Hes a top notch rider.

[mushinracing]

i dont think any of this is helping promote our sport just giving another award to the kids that race all of the races anyways. im just tired of people saying one thing and doing another. if we want bigger gate drops and more money brought to are sport then do something about bring a neighbor kid with you to a local or national race hand down old gear and equipment, but if your not doing things like this then yall are nothing but panzzies, looking to cry about anything.
WARD

[EthansDad]

Ok Scott,

So are you proposing the "bring an abducted neighborhood kid limited class" or what?

I think we all want bigger gates, not sure what you are thinking.

I do think though, if either the North or south had a drop, we'd get more kids. If I could run only 4 races and win out in points for a AMA N/S title, I would. Fact is, with having to hit all 5, the cost to run it is just a "bit" less than going for the national title.

So far I'd say we picked up some increase in riders with this N/S thing. I know the overall numbers are down, but with this economy, they should be *way* down. But, I think we'd pick up even more if folks could run only 4 races (that are truly in the NORTH or SOUTH) and have a shot at beating a national title contender.

The AMA should know by now, they will always get their "circus followers" and should focusing on ways to bring in new folks.

-EA

[edwardsp&b]

Quote "im just tired of people saying one thing and doing another."

Arent we all! It seems thats the way this world works now.

I for one will do anything for a kid, that needs help and wants to race. And im not doing it to bring more money and bigger gates to our sport. Im doing it because i see how much heart and passion my son has for this sport, so im sure other kids are the same way. Chasing and winning championships are great, but when the fun goes out of it for us, we will be done.

I dont care what team you ride for, or who supports you or whatever. I dont like all that drama bull****, so dont bring it to me. However, if you need help, or parts, or anything or just want to shoot the **** and drink a beer come find me.
bryan

[121dad]

when did we join the circus?? :eek2:

[mushinracing]

well i dont think you understand what im saying. love and passion for a sport will not support our sport progession in the future. i mean i hear people that have been in the game a lot longer than i say there was 30-40 in the 50 ltd class back a few years ago.which brings me to date 8-12 in the nats now on the gate. so you tell me where our sport is going?

[EthansDad]

Scott, I think we are saying the same thing. I'm looking for a way to grow the gates too, as I'm sure many are. If not this N/S thing as it is now, does it need fixing, or scrapping for something else that will grow gates? Its one thing to bring a kid along to locals, we've done that, but I think there needs to be some other incentive to bring out more regional racers to the national venues or better promotion of what we have now. You're more vested into this sport right now than most of us, so if you have ideas, I'm listening.

As for the numbers on attendance, check your facts. Here are some quick links to escore from 2007-2009. looks like in the popular youth classes, total annual attendance has gone up, AND the number of series followers (those going for top 5/top 10) has gone up, but I've never heard of 30+ on the gates. maybe that was before 2007. If we had 30+ in 2005/2006, what was different then compared to now?


70cc, 2007 32 total for the season, top 5 running heavy series commit
http://www.escoremx.com/results/atvamx/2007/seriespoints.asp?b=1&s=1&c=81&r=pos

50cc, 2007 - 30 total for the season, top, top 5 running heavy series commit
http://www.escoremx.com/results/atvamx/2007/seriespoints.asp?b=1&s=1&c=30&r=pos


70cc, 2009 - 30 total for the season, top, top 10 running heavy series commit
http://www.escoremx.com/results/atvamx/2009/seriespoints.asp?s=1&c=124&r=pos

50cc, 2009 35 total for the season, top, top 8 running heavy series commit

http://www.escoremx.com/results/atvamx/2009/seriespoints.asp?b=1&s=1&c=128&r=pos

[mini racer #39]

O 2007 man i remember that year what a 70cvt battle Johnny, Christian, Erik,and Jake we went coast to coast and bar to bar it was one hell of a ride. Those boys went at it in every practice and every race lap, even on the way to the gate! If nothing else comes out of all this Thanks for bringing up a great memory for me. jerry havert

[Logan #34's Dad]

I've got an idea on just one way to get the gates more full. BRING THE COSTS DOWN! There are more than 5 kids from right here that would beat MOST of the kids running the Nationals BUT they cannot afford the expense. $40 for anyone over 12 to get in the gate!(So much for a whole family going), $40 per entered class! (How about a sliding scale), $25 for practice! (Very little track maintenance on Practice day), transponder purchase or rental!, AMA membership!, AND OH YEAH - $15 for a pit vehicle!. That's not counting the cost of getting there.
Its simple economics, charge less - more entries = more money. More ppl support the vendors too.
And if the AMA cared as much about the quads as they do the bikes they would push to get more exposure for our sport. How about SPEED Channel covering our pro events w our little riders as fill material. The AMA will state the interest is not there - bullcrap! There are a whole lot of ppl that own quads. Heck, I'd just like for Dave Dispain (sp) to mention our pros in the speed report.

[zach R 7x]

IMO, the technology and pricing of parts has gone up drastically over the last 3-5 yrs. 5 years ago you go out and buy some works shocks and a top end and go out and race and be competitive,now we are looking at motors that cost us 5k-10k! Not to mention the $3000 suspensions! Coming from a low budget race team ,it is just to hard to keep up with the technology of this sport finacially and run all 11 of the nationals that cost us $800-$1000 dollars to run every other weekend.


Scott,what you are trying to do for the sport and the kids is awesome,this and all sports need guys like you.

JMHO,Tim

[Logan #34's Dad]

As I previously stated about local guys that would beat MOST of us: the above is one of them.

[mushinracing]

2006 2007 wpsa and im sorry 30 cant fit in a gate what im saying they had to quilfy for all the classes where i havent seen one race in 2 years in the 50 class have to qualify and jim beavers and ron kersey told me this keep in mind there where 2 series going on and they still had the numbers now there is only one series , you would think it would be even higher. there is one thing i will promise i will do my part to make things happen to secure everyones kids future in this great sport of atv motorcross. im sorry to all i offend i just have to lead from the front. i dont live in obamas lolly lolly land

[thequadfather+2]

Economics is the biggest factor for us, as Rocky stated. It's not just the races but the quads too, If you really want to compete you'll need the suspension, motor, clutch, tires ect....If you buy 2 quads for about 3,000 each you already have 6,000 invested before you hit the track. suspension x 2=5,000. Motor with ingnition x 2=4,000. Now 15,000-17,000 may not be much money to most people but I certainly never saw myself spending that kind of money on youth quads, racing or not. Now it's time to pony-up and pay to race and maintain them. You can build and maintain bikes for half that much.

It really is keeping up with the neighbors...If you want to keep up with them on the track you have to keep up with them off the track and thats where you find yourself digging deeper in your pockets.

Heck I am not complaining, I went out and got another job. Mini quad racing wont last forever and I figure I can tough it out for a few years I guess. As Chuck Losey said "Just making memories"...

We came to the nationals this year after Marc Smith encouraged us to try it. Met some pretty cool folks and had a great time at both of the first races and loved sitting on full gates. Been racing for 4 years now and this was our first time to even consider the nationals.

Now it's reality time...4,500 for a new boat engine, 5,000 for the Orthodonist and 3,000 for vacation........Hell I wish it did grow on trees.

We'll be at Loretta's this year and should be ready to follow the entire series when next year rolls around.

As someone else said before..."This aint T-ball"...I believe the single biggest factor is the cost of quad racing along the high cost to run in a high profile series like the nationals.

just my .02, still love it and glad we got into it.

[mushinracing]

its all econmomics , if more people introduce the sport to new riders companys can buy more inventory at a lower prices and pass savings down to others. im sure if mark smith gary fallon rich hetrick and justin ordered 20 cynlinder kits they would get a better price than if they only ordered two at a time. and the suspension guys ordered 100 tubes of crome olly instead of 20 they also would get a better price .Gentlemen your not going to change the way promoters runs there biz but you can control introducing new people to the sport all this starts with us making a differance. this is the only way are sport will grow. and heck im sure if the promoters had a bigger attendence maybe and i mean maybe the prices would drop there two. but no company is going to do biz to take a loss ."if it dont make dollars than it dont make sense"that is the way of biz like it or not.

[LT80]

Whether it's bikes or quads, the AMA don't have squat to do with it.
It's the promotor groups.

I've always wondered about contingencys.
Example: Scott goggles were on board. Not 1 pair of goggles were given away during the race season.
I'm thinking a pair to 1st place, 2nd place, anything! Instead the promotor group takes the money.

Go get em Scott..:)

[EthansDad]

"Now it's reality time...4,500 for a new boat engine, 5,000 for the Orthodonist and 3,000 for vacation........Hell I wish it did grow on trees."

Bruce, you have your priorities all wrong. What I see is $4500 for long travel kits, and, $5000 for motor upgrades, and $3000 for track fees.

You'll just need to tell your wife that being trackside is the "best" vacation you'll ever have, turn your boat into a lawn ornament, and get a book on do it yourself dental work.

:D

[thequadfather+2]

"You'll just need to tell your wife that being trackside is the "best" vacation you'll ever have, turn your boat into a lawn ornament, and get a book on do it yourself dental work."

LOL, yea I tried that already....She will be hard to live with if I dont plan one vacation a year. The Orthodonist ripped us a new one and my only escape from reality is hanging out on the water.

She dont mind spending money on the quads and racing but she wont give up the stupid stuff like her vehicle, furniture, a vacation and dental work.:D


I may have to take refuge in the camper....

I wonder if I could squeeze in a 3rd job?

[CRBOGGAN]

Do like we did last weekend had a yard sale so we could go race lol. That is what the wife told me we did with her money when we got home from the track.

Back to what this thred is about the cost is the big thing We would go to other big races but it just cost and when it comes to lights/water or go racing I know what I have to do.

[09rider75]

WHEN DID PENNSYLVANIA BECOME PART OF THE SOUTH!?!:confused:

[RCR_531]

This sport is just like all others. There will always be someone that has the funds to spend on their machine to push the rules to the limits. From what I have seen in the result this year is that there are more kids showing up to the gate atleast in the limit 50 from last year. Our local track the 50 class has pretty much died. We have been the only one showing up for the events.

[LT80]

Originally posted by 09rider75
WHEN DID PENNSYLVANIA BECOME PART OF THE SOUTH!?!:confused:

Right about the time that Minnesota became part of the east.
LOL

[Ryko racing]

I have not been to a Michigan local race this year but I have heard that the turn out is low.

I did go to a bike race in Michigan with Szymborskis over the holiday and they had 700 entries. ( maybe the money went with the bikes)