KTM Laeger Project

[pinitatv]

I thought I would post a few pics of the KTM Laeger project I'm working on.

[pinitatv]

pic

[pinitatv]

another

[pinitatv]

Pics

[protrax]

very nice , what was that frame originally set up for ?

[pinitatv]

The frame was originally a YZ Laeger, a lot of stuff has been removed its heard to tell that's what it was anymore.

[hontrx265r]

Looks really good. I see you either moved, or resized the pivot? Or both? What are you doing with the swingarm.. custom or reuse the old one?

[judecrf]

nice work man did u abandon the aprillia? really liking ur workmanship very tidy .what hp would the ktm be compared to a crf motor am putting a 07 crf into a yz laeger i bought.

[pinitatv]

hontrx265r

The pivot had to be moved to make the conversion right, if you look at the motor it sits level just as it does in the bike and as low as it can in the frame. I'd say the actual pivot moved forward about 1/2".

The swing arm is going to be custom and utilize a crf450 link. Just have to finish the bottom motor mounts then its on to the swing arm.

[pinitatv]

Judecrf

I didn't abandon the aprilia......yet

This is actually a totally different frame than I have for the aprilia project, this one came from hontrx265r. The motor is a 540 with a cam and some port work so I'm guessing it will make somewhere in the mid to high 50's on pump gas but much more torque than you see from a crf. These motors are smooth and probably don't seem as fast as a CRF but they are every bit as fast. The torque is amazing but its not cheap........

[97Rocks]

I will chime in to give a little more info on our project as this MY quad.... (HA HA pinit!!)
We have decided to use some of Walsh and Laeger concepts based on what we like most as you will soon see with the custom swingarm, Aarms, subframe, steering stem and exhaust. This quad is basically a compilation af all the things we have learned from the other quads pinit has built. The pinit atv family has a large machine shop -complete with a retired machinist... :) They have built many custom atv's and one thing is constant, no cobble jobs!! Well thought out, professional work. A big thank you to them in advance!

[hontrx265r]

Rick don't worry I know whos quad it is..haha I was just curious about the pivot/swingarm. I knew you needed to move it to make it correct.(The right thing to do forsure) I just wasn't sure about the swingarm length at that point. Its actually really awesome to see you do a ktm conversion the correct way and not have some other goofy *** mount going to the back of the motor like so many I've seen. Keep it going. I haven't done too much to the crf lately. Its soo close but the new baby and house has slowed me down. I still sneak out between my 1000 projects around the new house and a hungry baby though.. yea right..

[97Rocks]

Hi Mike- yeah the pivot location moved forward about a 1/4" or so and up (or down) -cant remember- about 3/8 or less I'm guessing so it is very close to stock. We will be making the swingarm the same length as the Laeger. We just got the bottom motor mounts finished today, kinda similar to what Mike Walsh does on his stuff. I'm sure Jody will post a pic soon. Nice work on your project by the way.!!!...

[hontrx265r]

Thanks... yea I've also considered cutting out the lower tube and running 2 side by side front to back and out.. If that makes any sense (like the walsh also) I think it creates a stronger mount with less chance of cracking.. I still havent welded the ones I machined yet. Although I doubt my two 10mm thich chromoly mounts would crack either.

[iceracer65]

looks rad!!

is this a single cam KTM? i know there is nothing faster on the ice but i know too that the dual cam 450's run REEEal hard so....

97rocks's quads are way cleen all the time:devil:

i myself have aquired a trx700xx and have come to love the torque of big displacement mills. i know the chassis is at a flat track disadvantage, but the big red mill has alot of potential. :macho

[pinitatv]

Here's the bottom mount welded in

[pinitatv]

Bottom view

[pinitatv]

the next step is the swing arm. I think this picture really shows how well it sits in the frame.

[hontrx265r]

looks really good Rick!! Those lower mounts are similiar to what I was thinking but a little different.. I can see that the motor makes the design though. Its coming out nice. I'm jealous of the fact that your using the carb and your motor is so far forward your intake will be soo much easier then what I'm dealing with. The throttle body is cool but that thing is huge at 50mm and really tight around the sub. Keep the pics coming.

[judecrf]

have u guys done anything else with this bike yet?am keen to see this baby finished.

[pinitatv]

Nothing really new just working out the details on the swingarm and linkage. Looks like the build is going to use ktm pivot components and a crf450 linkage. I've got the machinist working on the parts now.........

This project would have been done already if it were mine but the guy (97rocks) making SOME of the decisions has been working on a garden shed for almost a year now!!!!:D

[97Rocks]

The only thing slower than my decision making process is watching pinit go around the race track!! HA HA!! On a lighter note, after the swingarm we will be designing custom aarms and subframe- more pics to follow, as long as I am not too busy working on my garden shed....

[hontrx265r]

Hey rocks, or pinit... do you know what wall thickness the tubing you cut out of the lower portion of the frame was? I'm trying to order some and I just wanted to get it before I cut it out. Thanks
Mike

[97Rocks]

i believe it was .065 I'm pretty sure Laeger used the same wall thickness tubing on all parts of the frame, except maybe the rear hoop, which is double wall.

[hontrx265r]

Thanks Rick.. Bike looks great.. Ive just started to get back to working on mine this week. Hopefully we will make some progress in the next month I'd like to be riding it.

[hontrx265r]

Oh and I was wondering why you aren't going to use the protrax?
We are building a set of caster adj. uppers for mine, hopefully pull a little bit of the twitch out.

[97Rocks]

no reason, just want something different. Im going to keep the protrax stem and aarms around, just in case. We will be using heims on the uppers and lowers so that it becomes a "true" bind free front end.

[quadpornstar]

building caster adjustable upper a-arms for a T-pin, sounds interesting. Do you ride your quad on flat track, or moto? I had Pinit build some uppers that are a little longer than factory Laegers parts, and they are super. However adjustable caster would be cool. How are they coming?

[hontrx265r]

I don't want to jack Ricks thread but all I've done is get the heims, and draw the spacers in solid works to be machined. The chromoly is sitting in my garage.. Now I just need to get to work, all the pieces are there. I pretty much moto only... but with new baby..I pretty much haven't worked on any of my **** in two months...haha.

[quadpornstar]

Didn't mean to hi-jack the thread. Sorry about that Rick. Been curious to see Ricks new KTM finished, and the Fuel injected Laeger quads that a few people have been working on... This is all super good stuff.

[97Rocks]

We got the front bearing assembly made for the swingarm, we will be working on bending tube and getting it all stuffed in the jig real soon- then its on to the aarms and stem I think.....

[jonboy]

Lets see some more pics!!! I love seeing the fab process of a unique build.

[quadpornstar]

Any more progress on the KTM/Laeger fella's? You have A/C in your shop Pinit? Thought you did... You ever dealt with the UHMW (plastic) skid plates? Gotta do something on the Laeger, seems like the black UHMW would be a pretty slick set up

[quadpornstar]

Any more progress on the KTM/Laeger fella's? You have A/C in your shop Pinit? Thought you did... You ever dealt with the UHMW (plastic) skid plates? Gotta do something on the Laeger, seems like the black UHMW would be a pretty slick set up

[97Rocks]

some progress made on the swingarm..... hope to have it done in about a week. We have decided to make a tubular type 1-1/2" lower tubes and 1" upper tubes for a unique yet durable look. No A/C in the pinit shop, hopefully he will put it in the new shop at the new house!!! As far as the skidplate made of uhmw, sounds cool but not sure if you could make it strong enough for the way you pound on stuff quadPORNstar.

[pinitatv]

swing arm update

[pinitatv]

pic 3

[pinitatv]

pic 2

[judecrf]

real nice cant wait to see this bike finished good work jody!:)

[atvmxr]

wow, awesome jig!

[mildtowildracin]

i like the jig nice setup. like the work.

[pinitatv]

Its not much but the swinger is almost ready just verifying some dimensions before the last mount is machined for the crf450r linkage.

[pinitatv]

another

[red f-150]

not bad, looks like chain will hit the top bar on swinger. did you center the motor, or off set the sprocket.

[dustin_j]

Did you take any measurements to calculate progression rate using the CRF linkage? Or do you know some of the leverage ratios at different projected wheel travel measurements? Just curious how the CRF link compares to other linkages. Thanks,
Dustin

[protraxrptr17]

Good work. What kind of notcher do you use? Your notches are top notch! Ha!

[mildtowildracin]

i wanna see this thing finished!!!!

[pinitatv]

Originally posted by red f-150
not bad, looks like chain will hit the top bar on swinger. did you center the motor, or off set the sprocket.

The chain has good clearance if you look at earlier pictures you'll see the top bar is inset more to the center of the swing arm specifically for chain clearance.

If you're familiar with this chassis its narrow in the back like a motorcycle frame would be so when the motor was installed it was put in almost the same location as the original YZ motor to end up with about the same sprocket alinement and it ends up very close to center.

[tomtom79]

I can not wait to see this finished.

[pinitatv]

Originally posted by dustin_j
Did you take any measurements to calculate progression rate using the CRF linkage? Or do you know some of the leverage ratios at different projected wheel travel measurements? Just curious how the CRF link compares to other linkages. Thanks,
Dustin

Good question, not a lot of time was spent doing the math however the linkages are pretty similar. The shocks used in either set up are very similar as well. The cr500 has been the predominate linkage for years but is expensive and hard to find in great condition used so that was all taken into account when picking the crf link.

The shock that will be used is from a cr500 set-up so its possible when the project is complete it will need to be tuned for this setup.

[pinitatv]

Originally posted by protraxrptr17
Good work. What kind of notcher do you use? Your notches are top notch! Ha!

The notches are all done in a milling machine, very time consuming but the do make for great fit up. Thanks

[dustin_j]

Originally posted by pinitatv
Good question, not a lot of time was spent doing the math however the linkages are pretty similar. The shocks used in either set up are very similar as well. The cr500 has been the predominate linkage for years but is expensive and hard to find in great condition used so that was all taken into account when picking the crf link.

The shock that will be used is from a cr500 set-up so its possible when the project is complete it will need to be tuned for this setup.

Do you have any measurements from a CR500 setup? I've been curious how it compares since, like you say, it has been the preferred setup. Wasn't it just circumstance/coincidence that Laeger used one in the first place? My buddy's R has a CR500 link that I'm excited to measure up; I'll post my findings when I am able to.

Great build; it gets better as you go!

[protraxrptr17]

Originally posted by pinitatv
The notches are all done in a milling machine, very time consuming but the do make for great fit up. Thanks

Would you post a pic of the setup? I have been wanting to make an attchment for notching on my mill. I have some ideas but I would like to see one that is proven. It may be better than my idea. If you dont want to post it, I understand.

[C41Xracer]

hes probably using a vise and an endmill

[pinitatv]

Its really not much to see like Xracer pointed out its just a vise, angle finder and end mill. A person could do the same thing with a drill press if you wanted to.....

I'm building some a-arms right now that get a little more complex so I built angle plates to mount my fixtures to so I can cut the compound cope. If I had pics I would post them.

[Fred55]

Hey man the build looks awesome! I was just wondering where in Wisconsin are you from?

[pinitatv]

I live near Wausau

[mx Eli]

if any of you wisconsin riders want to ride somtime hit me up and ill see if i can make it to

[predator1]

superior here

[judecrf]

any updates pinit am looking forward to seeing this baby finished it mite inspire me to finish my much simpler conversion .am still saving to get u to make me that subframe and hope the dollar goes down against the pound lol.keep up the good work

[pinitatv]

No real updates on the KTM I've been working on other projects check them out. Some a-arms I built and an Aluminum -2 No link for one of my Laeger CRF's

[pinitatv]

arms

[quadpornstar]

Pinit, How about some caster adjustable t-pin style upper a-arms? I know a guy that would like a set, except they need to be 5/8" longer than what everyone else is running...

Aluminum swinger looks good. I like the front shock in the rear LOL. Rik Rok ever going to ride that new one?

[pinitatv]

Pornstar

A set of caster adjust t-pin tops shouldn't be a problem, I have to build a jig for the KTM project anyway. I think we'll be building a set of +3, I'll just leave enough room for +4 5/8.

I'm still making some improvements on the alum each one gets better. The shock you see is actually a rear shock, its a long travel no link just like my Walsh TT

[hontrx265r]

I'm building a set of adj. uppers also I have all the heims, tubing and spacers done just need to build the jig. But mine are plus four it may be close to what your looking for we may be able to make two sets if pinit is too busy.

[quadpornstar]

Yeah, that would be great. I run a plus 4 on my Laeger as well. Wide frame, with 4-1 wheels on it, and I am right at 50" or maybe just a whisker over. That was with Sand tires on, MX tires would have made me 49.75 I think. Pinit built me a set of uppers that were around 5/8 or 3/4 of an inch longer, because I didn't like the way the Laegers arms had all that thread sticking out, to get the camber right. He did a great job, had them chromed, they look awesome. I am in no hurry for them, but I would like a set that's for sure. Will the 250R Laeger arms work on a Honda TRX450r? I have a couple of those as well...

[quadpornstar]

Pinit, that rear shock looks a lot like a front shock, with the narrow thin body. Its cool as hell either way. Let me know when you get around to building the arms. Sounds like 265r could help me out too.

[trx90luke]

bump

[250x_kyle]

Originally posted by pinitatv
Pornstar

A set of caster adjust t-pin tops shouldn't be a problem, I have to build a jig for the KTM project anyway. I think we'll be building a set of +3, I'll just leave enough room for +4 5/8.

I'm still making some improvements on the alum each one gets better. The shock you see is actually a rear shock, its a long travel no link just like my Walsh TT

just curious what you used to bend the tubing with. and are thoses welded inserts for the heims. if they are did you make or buy them?

[pinitatv]

Originally posted by 250x_kyle
just curious what you used to bend the tubing with. and are thoses welded inserts for the heims. if they are did you make or buy them?

I have a tubing bender for the arms, its the only way to go. If you use the cheap hyd. press style you will get cold curl - ugly..... The inserts are machined to the specific tubing ID and welded. I make them myself.

[mx Eli]

hey pinit sent you a pm with a question would love if u could anwser it

thanks

[250x_kyle]

Originally posted by pinitatv
I have a tubing bender for the arms, its the only way to go. If you use the cheap hyd. press style you will get cold curl - ugly..... The inserts are machined to the specific tubing ID and welded. I make them myself.

yeah i know the hyd. ones tend to kink and crush the tube. mandral benders are expensive. im probably going to build a swingarm jig this winter. but wouldnt mind making my own aarms. tig welding and fitments not an issue bending is. i started drawing up some aarm designs in solid works. Almost had my professor talked into letting me build a swingarm jig for my final project in my jig and fixture class.

[pinitatv]

Originally posted by 250x_kyle
yeah i know the hyd. ones tend to kink and crush the tube. mandral benders are expensive. im probably going to build a swingarm jig this winter. but wouldnt mind making my own aarms. tig welding and fitments not an issue bending is. i started drawing up some aarm designs in solid works. Almost had my professor talked into letting me build a swingarm jig for my final project in my jig and fixture class.

I have a couple $K in my bender and its all manual, probably one of the cheaper you can buy but without it the arms look like crap....

[pinitatv]

Eli

Here's Andy's new swing arm

[250x_kyle]

you do some amazing work. looks real clean.

[mx Eli]

looks nice!! whats he doing with the titanium ladder style one?

so is brady having you do work for his hybrid or a 300ex? if its the 300 it will be for jason shultz's kid hunter ( which you probably know already haha)

[mx Eli]

haha know I see andy's old swinger behind the new one

[hontrx265r]

pinit/rocks anymore progress on the ktm. I'm about to fire up the crf here in a week or so hopefully. Just finished my exhaust, need my tank and she'll be running. Just going to put it on the dyno tune it get a baseline and tear it back down to finish powdercoat.
Pinit. how do those aluminum swingarms hold up? If its strong enough to moto I would like to have one thats the same as my cr500. This bike I'm building is already super light, I'm sure it would love to shave a few off the swingarm. The cast ones hold up great.

[troybilt]

Pinit, that's a damn goodlooking swingarm! I love it.

[pinitatv]

Thanks for the compliments on the swingarm!!!

265r
I'm not sure if one would withstand the abuse a motor crosser would take most of what I've built will be used for ice or flattrack racking, but there's only one way to find out........

[Hasteloy-X]

Pinit, any more updates on the Laeger KTM project?

Is 97rocks going to ice race this?

[pinitatv]

Ice racing starts this weekend and next so all the ice projects are done and out of my garage as of tomorrow (except mine of course) so the KTM is back at the top of the list. Planning to do a few things this weekend....

97rocks doesn't plan on racing anything unless he can do it from his couch!!!!!

Here's a pic, see it in the background?

[pinitatv]

Its been a while since working on this project, but here are a few updates on the progress.

Fully adjustable T-pin arms

New lower stem mount because the old one looks like a bird pooped on it.

NEXT on the list is an intake and sub frame.

[pinitatv]

This uses a fully threaded outer mount so only a jam nut in required.

It seems like every t-pin I have the inside nut isn't fully engaged so this will fix that problem.

[pinitatv]

Heres the old poopy one and the new improved.

[pinitatv]

Ready to weld

[8686]

Good stuff!

[hontrx265r]

Hmm thats weird mine doesn't look like that, and I guess I didn't notice that before I sent rick the chassis. I haven't had time to make new adj. arms though and I could surely use some but my tpin is now a plus 4 can you help me out pinit?

[fastrnrik]

You do nice work. That stuff looks perfect.

Your "bird poop" comment made me laugh. To this day, whenever my dad sees me weld, he looks all around the sky. When you ask him he says "just looking for the bird that s.hit on your stuff there" haha

[pinitatv]

265r

I can make a set for you if you would like. +4 isn't a problem with my jig. I have to make a set for someone else that also has a +4 so no worries.

Once I'm sure on the length for the +3 I'll get set up for the +4's.

[hontrx265r]

K just uppers is all I need. Can you pm me a price? I also already have the bungs, and heims I could send you because I was already planning on doing this.

[pinitatv]

PM sent

[woodsracer144]

just when i think you've thought of it all you seem to amaze me still! :eek2:

do you still have that 610 that was in a Walsh? I think.

All I can say is you got mad skills and a PM

[pinitatv]

Well, just for the record the adjustable t-pin arms were not my idea.

Yeah I have my 610 walsh and a crf450 walsh as well.

This Laeger KTM I'm working on is going to be a very unique and cool quad when its done.

PMed you back.

[97Rocks]

yeah, the tpin arms were my bright idea.... I just come up with doozies left and right and make jody figure out how to build stuff!!! The project is going great so far cant wait to get it done.

[250Renvy]

Jody, I'm sure you have that steering stop welded in already, but when you had it off, did you ever consider creating a removable bearing holder?

I guess roll did a similar thing.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/HRE/IMG_0058.jpg

Or is that a wide front?

[hontrx265r]

Cool idea on the bearing holder,but that is a wide frame so probably a little late to pull that off. My question is what frame is in the pic you have? Talk about some beefy a arm tabs!

[motochamp250]

If I'm not mistaken, that is his HRE frame hontrx265r...

[pinitatv]

A removable wasn't really considered at the time especially with the wide frame.

Its a cool idea on a narrow frame though!!

And its not welded yet so DON'T give 97ROCKS anymore bright ideas or this project will never leave my shop.....

[mx Eli]

if you look at one of the pictures of that lonestar titanium crf on ebay it has a removable stem bearing holder also

[brilo_pad]

Here's a shot of the Lonestar bolt on bearing carrier your talking about. Looks a pretty neat idea! Wish we would see more of these.. It sure would make getting that steering stem bearing in a lot easier. haha

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s169/matt_davis44/TIlonestar25.png

[250x_kyle]

not to hijack the thread but do any of you guys know where i can order aurora am-10t studed heims?

any ride report on the tpin setups yet

[brilo_pad]

Try FK Rod Ends.. Pretty sure thats where Walsh get all there bearings and hiems joints etc.

http://www.fkrodends.com/

[250x_kyle]

i found their equivelent but non studded.

[pinitatv]

Getting a little closer on the KTM build. Here's the new flip up sub frame (not quite finished) and relocated sub frame tabs.

[pinitatv]

One more

[pinitatv]

Welded

[laeger400]

Originally posted by pinitatv
One more

I see you made the top rails bolt up like the walsh subframes. very nice. your work super cool and very clean. i cant wait to see it when its done.

jerry

[jbltz450]

what year is that ktm engine?

[97Rocks]

The engine is a 2006 525. This project is currently on hold .... my Walsh crf is going together first!!! I have not been riding in 1- 1/2 years, time to get something together.. stay tuned

[mx Eli]

Rick your building another walsh crf? your old one is for sale now... wish I could buy that thing

[woodsracer144]

Originally posted by 97Rocks
I have not been riding in 1- 1/2 years, time to get something together.. stay tuned


I know the feeling! it sucks!

[97Rocks]

yep putting together a walsh narrow crf right now. currently tearing down a 2006 crf bike and parting it out on ebay this sunday... everything except the motor, carb, electronics that I need for the quad. Pinit and I are both busy with a ton of stuff right now, may be a few months before we start any more on the Laeger KTM. Bradys NOT selling that quad by the way- he said he'd sell it back to me -everything but the motor- complete for 3,000. Ask him about it!!

[mx Eli]

yeah it's not sold or anything but he said he'd sell it. sounds like a fair price might have to talk to him about that one...

he probably want the motor for that rubber quad...

[Justwin]

pinitatv - that's some awesome fabrication.

Just one quick question, what grade / gauge of Alloy did you use for your Aluminium swingarm?

Thanks

[pinitatv]

Thanks for the compliments.

The formed parts are 5052 .125 or .188 with 6061 machined parts and brackets.

[pinitatv]

Dual?

[pinitatv]

single?

[Big Red Hammer]

1 for duals

[protrax]

no duals extra weight for nothing but looks , less backpreasure and all top end power . now a nice light single would produce a nice torque curve and will probably run much better imo

[mx Eli]

Pretty sure its going to be a flat track quad so all top end power isn't to bad of a thing, and that 540 ktm motor will already have a healthy mid range torque

[laeger400]

Duals would look sweet but a nice 2-1 merge collector midpipe would be sweet too. Jody you have a very tough decision to make. Good luck
and as usual very nice stuff.

Jerry

[pinitatv]

I think its going to be a single but I'm going to add a BOMB.

[protrax]

Originally posted by pinitatv
I think its going to be a single but I'm going to add a BOMB.

Good call Jody your exhaust are the BOMB thanks again bro

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p125/protrax/IMG_1184.jpg

[hontrx265r]

I don't want to call you out jody but what's up on that exhaust can we talked about? I've tried calling you several times over the last six months?

[pinitatv]

Alan, Thanks how has that exhaust performed for you this year?

Mike,
Sorry nothing intensional, no secret my priorities have been in other places.

I've found most of my stuff now so we should talk again and I'll set you up if you still need that can.

[protrax]

Originally posted by pinitatv
Alan, Thanks how has that exhaust performed for you this year?



Jody, this pipe is working out great the bike is running very good with this 1 and got her on the top of the podium last weekend !

[laeger2fiddyr]

Protrax, Lets see some pics of that Laeger CRF!!!:)

[protrax]

Originally posted by laeger2fiddyr
Protrax, Lets see some pics of that Laeger CRF!!!:)
ok 1 more i dont want to hijack the build thread
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p125/protrax/428269_458186030901922_1933296635_n-1.jpg

[mx Eli]

jody I'v been doing great with the roll crf on ice too, the bomb exhaust seems to work great also