Drain Plug question

[troybilt]

Found out last night that my drain plug was stripped out on the Sparks motor I bought awhile ago.. Not too happy about it!... to put it lightly.

Going to drill and tap for a banshee plug. The banshee plug is 19mm long vs. 12mm long for the trx one. Is there anything that the plug could hit if I left it at 19? Or should I shorten the plug to 12mm?

Can I drill and tap this without splitting the cases? How do you keep from shavings getting into the cases? Use grease, etc...

T

[Honda 250r 001]

you know i would use a suzuki drain plug. I think you can just thread that right in. But to keep shavings from getting everywhere, now thats a good question. haha

[troybilt]

Suzuki is the same OD as a Banshee/Raptor plug. I looked it up. We have a Yamaha dealer in town, only reason I was going with the Banshee plug.

TRX250r is M12x1.5 pitch, 12mm thd length
LT250r is M14x1.25 pitch, ??
Banshee is M14x1.5 pitch, 19mm thd length

From what I found anyway.

[atvmxr]

you could use a NPT pipe plug...

[TLR-Online]

I was digging through my misc nuts/bolts.

What about this? Not sure if it will work...

Thread = 13mm (.51")
Length is 8mm (from under the head)
Has oring to seal against surface

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/TLR-Online/Projects/Plug.jpg

[Jonny B]

Hey Troy, watch out when tapping the drain hole. You may have an issue with the shift shaft being in the way of the tap...I remember it was close when I did this. You may want to remove the shift shaft before tapping. I went to the bolt shop and went with the next diameter oil plug they had.

[troybilt]

Originally posted by TLR-Online
I was digging through my misc nuts/bolts.

What about this? Not sure if it will work...

Thread = 13mm (.51")
Length is 8mm (from under the head)
Has oring to seal against surface


That is a STOR, Straight Thread Oring Face plug, we use those all the time at Cat. It usually needs a STOR port machined in to work properly, i.e. has a countersink for the oring. It would probably work in a pinch though.

Do I need to split the cases to get the shift shaft out, never done that?

Next size up, did you just go with a 1/2" fine thread oil bolt? 1/2" being 12.7mm or 0.7mm larger OD. Probably wouldn't have to drill to do that, just retap the hole. A 13mmx 1.5 needs a 11.5mm hole to tap for correct thread engagement. Metric taps are easy, just subtract the pitch from the thread OD for correct drill size.

I was hoping to get a blind tap so it doesn't have to go as deep to get the threads cut correctly. Not easily found at the local hardware store though.

Did I mention I was aggravated... :mad: I hate something that isn't perfect.

[troybilt]

I found Timesert, steel insert repair kits, but the kit is 100 bucks... RUFN kidding me!!!

http://www.toolskwik.com/storefrontprofiles/DeluxeSFItemDetail.aspx?sid=1&sfid=158898&c=192594&i=236678917

[IcutMetl]

Use a drain bolt & crush washer from a Suzuki LT250R and be done. It looks factory and is the same length. You'll need to buy or borrow a tap; I believe it is an M14, but I forget the pitch.

If you have the motor out, even easier. If not, stand your 'wheeler up on end, get the correct tap drill, coat the **** out of it with tacky grease (this will help the chips stick to the drill instead of going into the case). The cases are made out of a higher silicon aluminum so it will drill pretty easily and make shorter chips...drill slow and straight...and careful. Countersink, then tap...also using tacky grease.

Why mess with an npt plug...which you'll have to drill and tap for anyways...or use an odd-style plug with rubber seal, when you can fix it with a bolt from another machine designed for exactly the same purpose?

If you want, I can check later on tonight and give you the part numbers, plus specs for tap and drill.

[Jonny B]

The next size up that I was able to use is M14x1.5 tap. I used a 12.5 mm drill bit first to clean out the hole. I was able to clear the shift shaft without removing it but it is close and something to be aware of. Shaft removes out the clutch cover, no splitting cases.

[troybilt]

ICUTMETL yeah plz do. I can figure it out, but I don't know forsure what pitch the LT250r plug is. I know its M14, I think its 1.25 pitch...

Is this better than a steel insert that is better than it was originally? Certainly cheaper, I just wonder what happens when you strip an M14 bolt, there isn't enough room to go any larger...

I can get the taps and stuff from McMaster Carr

M14x1.25 should be 12.75 drill size or 12.7mm, i.e. 1/2", which I already have. I can pick up a M14 bottom tap pretty easily.

Just got to locate an LT250r plug, sounds like it is the same length as the TRX250r, so that would be better than the banshee plug which is 5mm longer.

[trx250r 88]

if you do try to run a tap in there without splitting the cases.i would goob some bearing grease on the tap.the metal shavings usually stick to the grease.you will most likely need to use a bottom tap,so you can get some threads.i work in a hyd. shop and need to do this kind of stuff sometimes.

[SilverLake250R]

I tapped mine last summer and used a drain plug from autozone. I can't remember the tap size, but it was coarse thread. Maybe a M14x2. It has worked fine since then, and I did not remove the shift shaft or anything, I just changed the oil when done and poured some extra oil through to try and flush it out.

[troybilt]

Thanks all for the help:

Just for clarification I did more research and the LT250r plug, (very common with a crapload of older suzuki's) is in FACT
M14 x 1.25 pitch which is uncommon thd for finding taps of this particular pitch without spending 30+ bucks for a tap.

The banshee/raptor plug is M14x1.5 pitch which is much more common. Anybody know forsure how long a Banshee plug is? I'm going swing by the yami dealer and see if they've got one.

[SilverLake250R]

M14 x 1.25 is a common spark plug tap. I just made a head for an engine with that exact tap for a engineering project. I bought the tap for 15 bucks and i have no use for it. If you want it you can have it for 10 shipped.

[latheboy]

Originally posted by troybilt
Metric taps are easy, just subtract the pitch from the thread OD for correct drill size.

Agreed. The same is true for finding english tap drill sizes. Except, for a thread size designation, the english gives you threads per inch, so you need to figure the pitch first, then subtract from the nominal size.

[troybilt]

Originally posted by SilverLake250R
M14 x 1.25 is a common spark plug tap. I just made a head for an engine with that exact tap for a engineering project. I bought the tap for 15 bucks and i have no use for it. If you want it you can have it for 10 shipped.

Hold that thought. I'm going to check a few places here at work and at local hardware stores. I went and bought a Banshee plug a few minutes ago, before the store closes. I think its going to work... and its 1.5 pitch. If it does I'll do a complete write up on it so maybe that will eliminate some redundant questions later on.

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by troybilt
Hold that thought. I'm going to check a few places here at work and at local hardware stores. I went and bought a Banshee plug a few minutes ago, before the store closes. I think its going to work... and its 1.5 pitch. If it does I'll do a complete write up on it so maybe that will eliminate some redundant questions later on.


http://forums.everything2stroke.com/images/smilies/Thumb1.gif http://forums.everything2stroke.com/images/smilies/Thumb1.gif

[250rPRIDE]

did you check on other yami drain plugs? mabe a blaster warrior grizzly etc... might be shorter but have the same thread size. that might be yami's set size for their plugs.. i would check into that to solve the to long problem, or grind the banshee one down to size

[troybilt]

Originally posted by 250rPRIDE
did you check on other yami drain plugs? mabe a blaster warrior grizzly etc... might be shorter but have the same thread size. that might be yami's set size for their plugs.. i would check into that to solve the to long problem, or grind the banshee one down to size

No after I picked up the Banshee one and saw it, its not too long, so its going work... hopefully.

I had to order a complete tap and die set, cause no one in town had a M14x1.5 tap. Oh, well guess now I've got all the taps and dies I'll ever need.

[IcutMetl]

The tap is indeed a M14 x 1.25; the correct tap drill size would be 12.8mm, or .504". Use a 1/2" drill (.500) and it should come out just right...that's what I did.

You can use a plug style tap as I did, which will have the first couple of threads tapered and will start much easier than a bottoming style tap especially when using it by hand in a tap wrench. If absolutely needed, you can take it to the bench grinder and carefully remove some material off the end.

The Suzuki part numbers for the LT250R setup are:

09247-14002 Factory drain plug w/ magnetic insert
09168-14004 Factory crush washer

[Aceman]

I had a similar problem years ago with my 300ex. I used a Helicoil kit from Napa, I want to say it was around $65-70. What you get though, is a brand new STEEL threaded hole, so you know you'll never strip it out again.

Upsizing to a 14mm Banshee plug will work, but there aren't any gaurantees it won't strip again.

Using the helicoil, you get to use the same factory 250R drain plug.

If I remember right, I lifted my quad up and drilled/tapped from underneath. I flushed the transmission with oil to help remove any shavings that may have gotten inside.

[troybilt]

I'd use a timesert if the banshee plug strips out. The hole for those are just a little larger than an M14, so I'd have to drill it out more. I torque the oil plugs with a torque wrench for that specific reason. Large OD bold will hold better anyway. I agree, the steel inserts are the way to go. Timesert is 100 bucks for the kit. Right now I'm out 4 bucks for the banshee plug and 48 bucks for a complete large metric tap and die set... LOL!

[All250R]

The thing about the LT plug is it doesn't thread all the way to the flange. It's best if you can to die the threads about a full turn if I remember right to prevent a crushing washer from causing the aluminum threads to run into interference with the bolt.

The helicoil has leaked on me at least. I hate leaky engines. Also, a properly torqued drain plug will never strip the aluminum...