ATC/TRX450r trike question

[woodsracer144]

ok so i have a buddy that would like to build one of these, other then the sub fame and T clamps is there much you would have to fab up? would a OE 450r swinger go in or mabie a 250r since you can get them with the CR500 and CRF links? how would the ATC 250r T clamps work? thanks, i know there are a few of them on here some use the 450R chassis part way then i think its the ATC 250r, but could you post up your set ups finished project and then with out plastics on it.

[Black Sheep]

Well it all depends on what route you take. There are three basic methods people have been using.

1. convert existing TRX quad....what i did

2. convert existing CRF bike.

3. convert existing ATC trike.

...or the easiest buy one of our conversion kits;)


with converting the existing quad you have to build a frame.

with converting an existing bike you have several obstacles. one being the rake is off for a trike. so you either live with heavy steering or you modify the steering neck. two is the quad/ATC swingarms will not fit without extensive modifications or you build a new one. three the subframe will need to be modified. then there are minor modifications you will need to make. The next biggest downfall is the bike transmission does not work all that good. I've raced against and ridden several bike conversions and compared to my trike using the quad transmission they are dogs. the other issue is no matter what you do the bike frame is tall and narrow and was never designed to be slid into corners but to rail them...geometry that you can't change

with converting an existing trike your missing the point. vintage trikes had frames/chassie's that were overpowered by there stock 1980's engines. putting something larger more powerful in them 20 yrs later is kinda counter productive.


so lets say you decided your method. Now come the forks. using old ATC triple clamps/forks is another counter productive issue. the worst trait of any vintage trike is there forks. most ATC forks were borrowed from 70's dirt bikes or street bikes. they weren't very good in the 80's and were the weakest link. Look at it like this. You can take a ATC 250R and modify the engine to be competitive with today's 450's. you can modify the rear suspension even today with updated swingarms/shocks. what you can't do is modify vintage forks to work as good as modern USD forks...true you can get them decent with springs/damping rods/emulator kits but, they are just to thin and flex too much.

The best thing is to modify modern forks. that will include a custom axle, triple clamps, at the very least. I went a step further and built my own hub to accept newer style 10" wheels vs. the old 11" ATC wheel (more tire options)

These are just the basics. If your still interested I can get into some serious detail and I even have pics...including build process of almost every 450 trike built since i started this movement years ago. The problem is i would most likely hurt some feelings with my analysis. However, if you are still interested PM me and I can point you in the right direction and avoid hurting peoples feelings.

[Derrick Adams]

While Blacksheep and I don't agree on most of the points he stated, I would consider him to be the authority on making a trike out of a quad. Since your post specifically asked about the ATC/TRX conversions, I would trust his opinion.

I'm sure I can speak for Blacksheep as well as myself when I say that there is ALOT involved in doing this type of build correctly and safely. It's not for the faint of heart or average garage builder.

[croat1]

black sheep: pm sent

derrick: do you also build three wheelers?

[quadbod]

As Black sheep knows, I am doing this conversion to a TM 250 at the moment and I am in need of some hints and tip.

Can we have this discussion on the boards please so we can all benefit from peoples knowledge?

Its a forum, who cares about peoples feelings!!!!

Oh and pics would be great, specifically the front wheel options and the swingarm options.

Thanks.

[Derrick Adams]

Croat, I have built a few three wheelers, but only one 450 so far. I won't clutter this thread but if you do a search you will find the build on it.

People have been converting dirt bikes to three wheelers since the early eighties. It's not rocket science. You just have to think before you cut.

[woodsracer144]

Originally posted by Derrick Adams
Croat, I have built a few three wheelers, but only one 450 so far. I won't clutter this thread but if you do a search you will find the build on it.

People have been converting dirt bikes to three wheelers since the early eighties. It's not rocket science. You just have to think before you cut.

I dont mid you can post up some pics. I was also thinking about stepping out of the way and trying a 250F or something else that is smaller like the 150R or F what ever.

all in all i would be doing this just to say i have it, im not looking to race it like people do down south.

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by quadbod


Oh and pics would be great, specifically the front wheel options and the swingarm options.

Thanks.

you basically have two options,

front wheel;

1. use an existing trike front wheel/set up

2. build a whole new hub to accept a different style wheel

swingarms,

1. use an existing trike/quad swingarm and modify it to fit, one thing to remember Trikes typically use longer swingarms then quads. if your gonna use a quad swingarm i suggest a +1 1/2 or +2

2. build your own.

[quadbod]

anyone know the tri-z 250 front wheel pcd?

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by woodsracer144
I dont mid you can post up some pics. I was also thinking about stepping out of the way and trying a 250F or something else that is smaller like the 150R or F what ever.

all in all i would be doing this just to say i have it, im not looking to race it like people do down south.

There are several 250 four strokes under construction as we type this.

One guy is putting a Suzuki RMZ 250 in a old ATC 250R frame, another is putting a CRF 250R in a old ATC 200X frame. I am building a whole new frame for a CRF 250R/X hybrid engine.


The thing is just about anybody with mild metal skills can put something on three wheels. The real key is making it handle right and last. When building something like this your gonna have to make some decisions such as...do i just want it on three wheels...or do i want to do what i have to to make it handle right. It might cost more or take longer to do it right but, it's better then doing it cheap and quick then spending a bunch of time trying to get what you built right after the fact. That is the biggest mistake i see people do. they rush the job or cheap out and then have to rework everything later down the road or...they just abandon it and start over. I'm proud to say my original TPC was built just as I planned back in 2003 and is still going strong with my original idea/plan. My "production" TPS are built in the same way. The only reason I plan on replacing it is when the new TRX's come out and I want something newer

[audioworks04]

pretty much what kasey said. I rode his and compared to mine his is a caddy that handles like a lambo. But his rear shock cost more that almost everything on mine. It is also great to be able to actually use first gear, where as with the bike transmission you are either sitting there or going way faster than you want to sometimes. Mine does not handle horrible, but is not what it could be/will be when funds are available.
As far as what is needed?
subframe - i modified the trx subframe, but broke it three time and ended up building my own.
swing arm - i used the trx but it is a little short. Must modify to make it fit the frame (not bad)
-trx uses a smaller pivot bolt than crf which makes for a very very challenging time finding bearings and bearing sleeves
rear shock mount - bike mount is far to high to use with an atv or atc shock, so must lower it
-lowering it places it right where you want your intake tube to go...
rear shock - bike shock is set up for the weight of the bike...no good
pegs - bike pegs are far to small and not in the right spot
waterpump cover - i used the 06-up trx cover, which mounts on the trx motors and redirects the neck
air intake - not easy
exhaust - trx exhaust worked great on mine with some tweaks
rear brake set up - trx rear brakes, but lots of fab to get the pedal right
front end - the tpc front end should mount right up to any crf450 frame and use the crf forks and brake set up with his custom billet hub and 10" wheel.
the worst part is that any welding its to aluminum, and not billet or plate, but cast which is very hard to get a good clean weld on.
Over it is a fun project, but way way too many headaces.

I ride mostly dunes, so it does alright, but if you are looking for track or trail I would stay away from the bike tranny. The crf450x has a better tranny for a trike setup, but still not quite where the trx is. My 450 is very had to trail ride unless you know them very well and can fly though it.

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt59/audioworks04/atc450rsand.jpg

my build thread
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?97928-2005-ATC450R-Alum-Frame

[400exrider26400]

Originally posted by Black Sheep
There are several 250 four strokes under construction as we type this.

One guy is putting a Suzuki RMZ 250 in a old ATC 250R frame, another is putting a CRF 250R in a old ATC 200X frame. I am building a whole new frame for a CRF 250R/X hybrid engine.


The thing is just about anybody with mild metal skills can put something on three wheels. The real key is making it handle right and last. When building something like this your gonna have to make some decisions such as...do i just want it on three wheels...or do i want to do what i have to to make it handle right. It might cost more or take longer to do it right but, it's better then doing it cheap and quick then spending a bunch of time trying to get what you built right after the fact. That is the biggest mistake i see people do. they rush the job or cheap out and then have to rework everything later down the road or...they just abandon it and start over. I'm proud to say my original TPC was built just as I planned back in 2003 and is still going strong with my original idea/plan. My "production" TPS are built in the same way. The only reason I plan on replacing it is when the new TRX's come out and I want something newer




Are you going to post some pics of that crf250r/x hybrid on your website ?

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by 400exrider26400
Are you going to post some pics of that crf250r/x hybrid on your website ?

Yes, it will be posted when finished.

[TRKR]

Derrick and Black Sheep are right in everything they said. If you don't mind a comprmise, you can do it, just plan everything really well and do a lot of reasearch. If you won't compromise, well, just buy a TPC. It's easier and not much more expensive than doing it yourself.

Here's my 86 ATC 250RF budget biuld.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2mg85lu.jpg

TORKER.

[400exrider26400]

Originally posted by TRKR
Derrick and Black Sheep are right in everything they said. If you don't mind a comprmise, you can do it, just plan everything really well and do a lot of reasearch. If you won't compromise, well, just buy a TPC. It's easier and not much more expensive than doing it yourself.

Here's my 86 ATC 250RF budget biuld.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2mg85lu.jpg

TORKER.


hey do you have a thread of the build up ?

[TRKR]

I do. Follow this link:http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?108499-ATC-250RF-project-under-way...Still-at-it!!!

Enjoy,
TORKER.