old race bike (desertsled )

[fearlessfred]

these are some pics of my bike i used to desert race until my wife started popping the kids out 2 at a time, making four boys . i am going to start a restoration, and maybe thro a crf 450 in it

[fearlessfred]

#2

[fearlessfred]

#3

[bill wright]

spill the beans about that suspension setup!never seen anything like it. looks trick

[D Bergstrom]

Did Bunderson build this? Was there a few of these around Vegas? I remember years ago (Maybe 2002, 2001?)I saw something like this out at Nellis Dunes one weekend. (May have even been you.) Never got to take a close look at it, but always wondered about it. It's funny, I was just thinking about it a few days ago!

Doug

[rayman375]

That thing looks crazy, how did it do in the races?

[atv fan 28]

so this is the bike you have been talking about? very interesting!! Wayne

[norcalduner]

Tell us more about your quad. And can you post more pics. It really looks interesting to say the least. I ride the desert a lot myself and can truly appreciate a trick machine such as yours.

[fearlessfred]

yes wayne
yes it did good at racing desert ,but took at least a year to dial in and prob.was at only 70 percent of what it could be . now that im 52 years old i might want it to be 100 percent .some things broke and failed like the rod ends that hold the swing arm on broke because the jam nut was hitting the frame and the air spings leaked because of bad tubing ( had use hydrolic cylinder tubing to get the poly pac seals to seal up) but everthing did get ironed out

yes bunderson did build it and yes that was me at nellis, the other bike he built had independent rear and was done about 5 years after mine
and to answer bill question the suspension is made up of an air spring which is infinitly ajustable , by the nitogen preasure and the amount oil you add to the top of piston ( that changes the rising rate of the air spring ) . the shock is a fox shock that is position sensative . it has three holes of diff. sizes drilled in the body and a sleeve placed around it and the shock fluid will bypass until the piston goes past more later

[fearlessfred]

yes i will to all your questions ( norcalduner) tomorrow

[jcs003]

thats a interesting bike fred. do you got any side view pics? it looks like something you might see in one of those 80s post-apocolyptic movies.

[fearlessfred]

yea, gonna get more pics tomorrow . do u mean like mad max .

my best friend would call it a big stink bug because of the way it sat without the rider on it . him and i use to do team nite races on it

[jcs003]

Originally posted by fearlessfred
yea, gonna get more pics tomorrow . do u mean like mad max .

my best friend would call it a big stink bug because of the way it sat without the rider on it . him and i use to do team nite races on it

yes, mad max is a good example. i love to see unique machines. one of the ATV magazines would appreciate a submission of your quad.

[fearlessfred]

allways wanted do that ,but just never had it picture perfect . i am ashamed to post it so ragged out like it is .i left it sit outside for 2 years. it was covered but still got rusted

[troybilt]

Being an engi-nerd myself, you've certainly got my attention. I think a resto project like this would be awesome.

I've been interested in the dual rear air-shock setup for awhile, well ever since I got my floats... LOL...

[fearlessfred]

do the floats get stiffer as they get hotter, because that is the reason we made the shock and airsping seperate, and used nitrogen instead of air

[troybilt]

They don't seem to for me, but I think they could in a desert racing application. I hear some MX racers fill them with nitrogen instead of air as well and are probably re-valved for that.

D Berg might have some insight on that.

[D Bergstrom]

Thought that was Bunderson's work, I wish I could drop one of my quads off to him and say have at it, just don't think I could afford it! I do remember seeing it parked that day out at Nellis and it was really tall. Rode by later and you were just taking off to go ride and it was at a regular height. Here is the IRS quad Bunderson built also:

http://atv.off-road.com/atv/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=190855

It was actually for sale a year or two ago, not sure what happened to it.

There is also a Raptor 660 running around that Bunderson built also. It was at a BITD race about a year and a half ago. (I assume the suspension was done by Bunderson, it had Bunderson stickers all over it.) During the race, there was a couple mile section that was just nasty rough, big holes, cross grain, etc. That Raptor passed me in that section, I was amazed at how well it worked.


Originally posted by troybilt
D Berg might have some insight on that.

I have never noticed any issues with running the Float Evols in the desert. I think the longest race I have on mine was about 160 miles, shocks were just as consistant as a regular coil shock. I know others who have raced alot farther on them, and they said the same.

Good luck on the restoration. Once you get it back together and go for a ride, let me know, I would love to get a closer look at it. try to get it done and come out and race one of the MRAN night races on it this summer.

Doug

[fearlessfred]

thanks for the invite when its done i will pm you. with no work right now it will be slow going. how about dumont next fall.

was wondering if u new all
the guys i use to race with
bingo
alan levenson
steve abbot
mark bunderson
mitch canapa
todd hunter

[fearlessfred]

dropped spindle to get more ground clearance for the a arms

[fearlessfred]

trying to show mounting points for swing arm pivots. the swingarm pivots in line with the countersshaft sprocket

[fearlessfred]

pivot

[rayman375]

You definitely need to get that quad freshened up, it's a very cool unique machine. One of a kind for sure.

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by fearlessfred

was wondering if u new all
the guys i use to race with
bingo
alan levenson
steve abbot
mark bunderson
mitch canapa
todd hunter

The only one I have actually met in person is Todd, even that was a couple of years ago. Todd and Ed Teixeira raced against us one year in BITD. All the others I have heard the names before except for Alan, but have never met any of them. I have raced against Mitch and Bingo in BITD and have spoken to Mitch a few times by e-mail, but have never actually met him face to face.

Doug

[rayman375]

Steve Abbot is either owner or co-owner of atv cycle sports, he's almost always in there.

[rustyATV]

What was the rational behind using such short shocks?

[fearlessfred]

this bike was built in the mid 90s and no one was using long shocks than,but just the same the piston diameter is is 1 3/4 inchs which is a large volume of oil and would basicly be the same as being longer the shock does not get hot. the air springs do get warm , but the air spring does most of the compression dampening

[fearlessfred]

pic

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by rayman375
Steve Abbot is either owner or co-owner of atv cycle sports, he's almost always in there.

yea ,steve is the owner and pike is co owner .steve is a blast to ride with

[wild250rman]

you have got to restore it.:eek2:

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by wild250rman
you have got to restore it.:eek2:

yes thats for sure, im debating on keeping it 250r ( 310 ) or swapping for a crf 450 im getting in a trade any opinions would be appreciated

[wild250rman]

I personally would leave it as a 250r then maybe do an updated version later on with the crf maybe king coil overs and full independent suspension like a modern trophy truck or buggy just to have the best of both worlds old school and modern. to much history there to change that particular quad. just my 2 cents.

[fearlessfred]

im kinda thinkin the same way,but idont think i will build any more
thanks for your opinion

[wild250rman]

keep us all posted if you do decide to restore. No matter which route you go I am sure it will be awesome either way.

[rayman375]

Keep it two stroke for sure!

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by rayman375
Keep it two stroke for sure!

Agreed! if you change this over to a POS 4-stroke! You will be ruining this awesome piece!!!

[Fear250r]

I would also leave everything as is, just restore that thing!

[fearlessfred]

i guess i will find some thing else to do with the crf450 motor,

[fearlessfred]

i guess i will find some thing else to do with the crf450 motor,

[ml250r]

Keep it a 2 stroker for sure!! Putting a for 4 stroke in it would b like ruining a peice of fine art!:D

[250Renvy]

I thought this was a custom jobby until I saw the wide pic. Is this a stock frame modified?

It sits so high, now I'm wondering how wide you have it. I would think it would feel tippy or unstable unless it's really wide sitting that high.

Awesome ground clearance though.


--------------

Definitely keep it a 2-stroke 250R. The CRF would need to start all over again.

[atvmxr]

another vote for keeping it a 250r motor :)

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by 250Renvy
I thought this was a custom jobby until I saw the wide pic. Is this a stock frame modified?

It sits so high, now I'm wondering how wide you have it. I would think it would feel tippy or unstable unless it's really wide sitting that high.

Awesome ground clearance though.


--------------

Definitely keep it a 2-stroke 250R. The CRF would need to start all over again.
the only part that remained stock was was around the motor (a crap sandwich) behind the motor was cut off . it is 50 inchs wide and when u sit on it u use at least 50 percent of the travel (16inchs in the front and 18 in the rear) and it does have a lot of body roll and takes a while to learn how to ride

[rayman375]

Do you have any video of it in action? What about pictures with you sitting on it?

[fearlessfred]

i will get a pic with my boy oldest boy sitting on it , but im not posting a , pic with my old fatass in the pic for u guys to make fun of

[DezSled]

Interesting machine. Digging the ultra long travel.

I remember Alan Levinson on his suzuki passing me at the last pit in 89 b2v, he ended up 5th. I had to change a tire. Ended up 6th.

Those other names def sound familiar. oh the memories

Restore but don't replace. Great idea post pics when your done

Mike

[8686]

Originally posted by 250Renvy
I thought this was a custom jobby until I saw the wide pic. Is this a stock frame modified?

It sits so high, now I'm wondering how wide you have it. I would think it would feel tippy or unstable unless it's really wide sitting that high.

Awesome ground clearance though.


--------------

Definitely keep it a 2-stroke 250R. The CRF would need to start all over again.

I bet the suspension is set up like a stadium truck with A LOT of sag once a rider is on it.

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by DezSled
Interesting machine. Digging the ultra long travel.

I remember Alan Levinson on his suzuki passing me at the last pit in 89 b2v, he ended up 5th. I had to change a tire. Ended up 6th.

Those other names def sound familiar. oh the memories

Restore but don't replace. Great idea post pics when your done

Mike
whats your last name, did u race any of the s.n.a.r.e. races around vegas

[DezSled]

No just district racing & score/hdra. Names from the past: Erhenberg, Garban, Wing, Knudsen, Elliot, Sundahl, Fenton, Schoonmaker, Roll Brothers Mike & Doug, Lamson, Ent, team KWIK, Row, Burwell, Dickson....

memories of races past...

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by 8686
I bet the suspension is set up like a stadium truck with A LOT of sag once a rider is on it.

yeap, as low as u can go and still handle bottom out

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by DezSled
No just district racing & score/hdra. Names from the past: Erhenberg, Garban, Wing, Knudsen, Elliot, Sundahl, Fenton, Schoonmaker, Roll Brothers Mike & Doug, Lamson, Ent, team KWIK, Row, Burwell, Dickson....

memories of races past...

yea.know all the names but i dont know them

[bigE28]

i agree, definitely keep it two stroke!! awesome looking bike!

[LT250RMan]

I vote for the CRF450 motor.....:D ;)

[fearlessfred]

i new u would rob. i will find something else to do with the crf . a deal is a deal we will still do the trade

[woodsracer144]

did you just mod a stock chassis? or is it totally aftermarket?

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by woodsracer144
did you just mod a stock chassis? or is it totally aftermarket?

Already been answered:


Originally posted by fearlessfred
the only part that remained stock was was around the motor (a crap sandwich) behind the motor was cut off . it is 50 inchs wide and when u sit on it u use at least 50 percent of the travel (16inchs in the front and 18 in the rear) and it does have a lot of body roll and takes a while to learn how to ride


I say keep the 250R motor in it also. A 330 kit would be nice!

Doug

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by woodsracer144
did you just mod a stock chassis? or is it totally aftermarket?

it started as a stock frame,we were gonna chop the hole front off and start over. well we did and as we got more involved (air springs ,position sensitive shocks and 16 inchs of travel) we realized that we had to change the back end to. so we cut the back off later in the project . if we would have know this we would have started from scratch ,and i would have prob. not have built it because of the cost i payed for it over a 2 year period

[woodsracer144]

Originally posted by fearlessfred
it started as a stock frame,we were gonna chop the hole front off and start over. well we did and as we got more involved (air springs ,position sensitive shocks and 16 inchs of travel) we realized that we had to change the back end to. so we cut the back off later in the project . if we would have know this we would have started from scratch ,and i would have prob. not have built it because of the cost i payed for it over a 2 year period


i still would have to say that this is the most one of a kind quad i've ever seen...

[regg187]

It sure is unique, if your gonna restore, just restore it as it is.
Thats what ya raced, bring it back to its glory days! the front arms are so beefy and the shock locations, man there was alot of leverage there.

[k10seibel]

Truly an awesome piece of ATV tech & history. Keep it as you originally built it. (my.02 cents) Thanks for sharing!
"Restore don't ignore."

[fearlessfred]

thanks for the kind comments,andyand thanks to every to everyone who responded .

[dustin_j]

I bet it was nice having the swingarm pivot in line with the countershaft. How did that particulare setup work? Were the rod ends strong enough to handle large impacts? Did they wear quickly? Thank you for posting pictures of this unique machine; I agree with the others that a rebuild as-is would be great. You should build another with the bike engine...

[fearlessfred]

the wear on therod ends for the swing arm was not that bad replaced them about ever 1 1/2 years riding ever weekend the failers i had on the rod ends were from the jam nut hiting the frame when in full droop. once i clearanced that they never broke again. the jam nut resting against the frame would have been an easy 100 to 1 ratio of leverage. one of the main reasons for locating the pivot there was because u cant get that much travel in the stock location without the chain cutting into the swingarm . the chain stayed the same tightness thru out the travel and the the throttle position didnt have much effect on the suspension

[troybilt]

I was just thinking about this bike on the way home... any updates on the resto project?

[imprezkid]

Wow this thing is wild, i would think scary being that high but probably better than looks.

I would say keep it pretty original but throw on some more modern parts to update it if your gunna ride it, im sure the tech has come along ways, and some major improvments could be done, like shocks, etc.

my $.02

[Conant19]

Originally posted by troybilt
I was just thinking about this bike on the way home... any updates on the resto project?

x2 on the updates

[hawaiianbasshed]

that travel makes me drool... I have stock travel on all my bikes and something like that would have me breezing thru the ruff stuff I find when trail riding on some of the lava rock stuff I go thru lol

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by troybilt
I was just thinking about this bike on the way home... any updates on the resto project? no troy, i havnt done anything but cleaning a lot of rust off of it .im using the money from old parts that i have sold but havent recieved the money yet. i will definitly update when i get going.besides its to hot here in vegas to work on anything u dont have to.i have become a wus in my old age. i use to ride every week end no mater what the weather

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by imprezkid
Wow this thing is wild, i would think scary being that high but probably better than looks.

I would say keep it pretty original but throw on some more modern parts to update it if your gunna ride it, im sure the tech has come along ways, and some major improvments could be done, like shocks, etc.

my $.02 the tech hasnt changed to much.this thing was way ahead of its time. but it is built for the desert and would not even come close to being competive in mx. as far as the ride hieght goes when sitting on it u use at least 50 percent of the travel,so it isnt so high,but u definitly have to learn to ride it,lots of body roll

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by fearlessfred
no troy, i havnt done anything but cleaning a lot of rust off of it .im using the money from old parts that i have sold but havent recieved the money yet. i will definitly update when i get going.besides its to hot here in vegas to work on anything u dont have to.i have become a wus in my old age. i use to ride every week end no mater what the weather

If you need to, you can drop it off at my house and I will work on it for you, don't be surprised though when I don't give it back! haha

I agree on the heat thing to, I hate working out in the garage during the summer here in Vegas. Much nicer to stay in the air conditioned house!

Doug

[fearlessfred]

yea i cant believe i use to ride in the heat every weekend. i did get out there by 6 am and be home by 11. when i get running i will pm u and we will go out for a ride.nice job u and dustin did on the axle carrier .thats what this forum is all about .helping your brother if u can

[Xowner]

What ever happen to this?

[fearlessfred]

its still rusting in my backyard

[atv fan 28]

Come on now Fred.. You need to do something with it.!!

[Fear250r]

Originally posted by fearlessfred
its still rusting in my backyard

NO!! :eek: Bring that bad jackson back to life!!

[fearlessfred]

i have been thinking about it a lot lately and every time i think im gonna get started on it,one of my four boys cost me a big chunk of change for something. i might throw the crf 450 in it for a while.until i have gone thru the 250 motor

[troybilt]

Well if you ever decide to sell it I'd restore it and race it... :D Looking into building a desert bike now...

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by fearlessfred
until i have gone thru the 250 motor

Bring that motor and all the parts to me and I will take it apart and reassemble it, for free. Just have to let me ride this thing some once it is running again!:D

Doug

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by D Bergstrom
Bring that motor and all the parts to me and I will take it apart and reassemble it, for free. Just have to let me ride this thing some once it is running again!:D

Doug wow, thats a really kind offer doug.even without your offer you get to ride it.

troy..i would probably never sell it .but if you wanted any kind of help (pics,info,dos and do nots ) on your own build,let me know

[troybilt]

Originally posted by fearlessfred
wow, thats a really kind offer doug.even without your offer you get to ride it.

troy..i would probably never sell it .but if you wanted any kind of help (pics,info,dos and do nots ) on your own build,let me know

I kind of assumed that... but just in case... haha... :D

I will definitely take you up on that this Spring, when I get started on the next build. Thanks! I sure hope you restore that one day.

[Higgy87TRX425]

I've read through this post a few times and checked out the photos and I must say this. You should do a full resto on that bad desert beauty. It may take you a while, but building them is half the fun. Heck for me its been almost all the fun. I do really wanno go ridding though. I'm all in on the full rebuild and keepin 250r's alive!!
Thanks Higgy

[fearlessfred]

thanks man. i prob. take doug up on his offer to help with the 250 motor.

[Higgy87TRX425]

You should! I know that you're probably super busy with the kids and all, but memoriblia like this is rare, and still Competitive, lol!!
Thanks Higgy

[fearlessfred]

you should post some pics of all your bikes

[Higgy87TRX425]

Well there's only 2 that are done or close to it. The Lobo and the Banshee. The Banshee motor is in the shop and should be done before X-mas. The 87 Honda TRX 250r is basically just a rolling stock chassis no motor and the Sabertooth/drag project is a basketcase and bare frame at this point. I just bought a leftside case for the bottomend and I'm going to pick up my crank and brand new topend tomarrow. Then I've been posting pic's of the LRD project as its been commin along. I've got most all of the parts for it, I'm just always up grading everything. Let me find some photos of all of them together and I'll post them. Here's one that shows 3 of them I'm currently working on.
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/543215196/Lobo%20LRD%20pics/NewLOBOpics107.jpg
I'll post some better pics of the Sabetooth/drag build, 87 Roller, and the rest of my projects as I find them.
Thanks Higgy

[Higgy87TRX425]

here's the 87 Trx 425 when it was together, lol. Here goes.
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/543215196/All%20projects/BansheeDenali021.jpg
Now I'll find the Sabertooth/Drag build.
Thanks Higgy!

[Higgy87TRX425]

Here's the basketcase Sabertooth motor and the JP Frame thats gonna be the donar for the project.
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/543215196/All%20projects/BansheeDenali043.jpg
So I'll see what else I can find for your viewing pleasure.
Thanks Higgy!

[Higgy87TRX425]

So this is the old Sabertooth head I bought as a basketcase with a OOF Shearer Pipe. I'm going to pick up the crank and complete topend brand new tomarrow.
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/543215196/All%20projects/X-mas2010054-1.jpg
I have a 50 Lectron Carburator to run with it as well. I'm just collecting parts for this project at this point. I'll post a Photo of the new topend and crank with the pipe and carb after I get them all together.
Thanks Higgy!