Illegal motor now

[redonkulousruntsracing]

Well now I've gone and done it. So I might as well not try to hide it, Seth's quad now has a 50.44cc engine in it. We were planning on going to Steele City, Pleasure Valley and Unadilla nationals and compete in the 50 limited 4-6 class. But seeings how his motor is .44cc over, now I am wondering.... We are going to race, to race against good competition, not for points. A .25mm over bore did not clean up my cylinder, so we had to go to a .50mm overbore. So now after crunching the #'s we are .44cc over. So.....do I spend all the $$$ and time and effort to bring my son to these races or not?? I am not going to have his machine protested and have whatever finish he gets stripped from him. He is a 6 year old kid who just wants to race, so if we will be protested over .44cc, we will just stay home. I could have spent more $$$ to buy a new cylinder, and have the port work all redone, but at this point I do not have the time and $$$ to do that, with a local series that runs every weekend, we are chasing points there, so..... I have been working furiously to try and get his quad together for him and have far exceeded my budget too. So in the immortal words of the Clash; "Should I stay,or should I go".......

[marsrace2]

Go For It!!!

[LT80]

You've obviously made a mistame in your measurements..

[rooster300ex]

Its still 50cc's its not like its 51cc's. Just my opinion.

[riding4fun]

I was at a WORCS bike event this year and a 50cc bike was protested. The bike came out to be 60cc. With that said, I spoke to the WORCS tech and he said they would not have upheld the protest for a 1cc over. Take that for whats it worth.

[Arctic Cat Dad]

I'm sure there are alot more mini's there that are way over 50cc's. I don't believe .44 is going to be a big deal. With all the national's we've run,I've never heard much said about.44cc's.Now if you would lap every1 or beat them by a mile then it's different. Go for it and run it!

[Ride1Rob]

You know in your heart that there's someone out there that's gonna protest. That .44cc's will have nothing to do with the outcome of the race but rest assured that someone who has read this or heard of this is gonna protest your boy. Whether it be for place, points, or simply being spiteful, IT'S GONNA HAPPEN :(

[airmobile101]

I say run it!

[Reimer Racing]

The next class is 51cc to 70cc so that .44 in my eyes would be fine. If it was 51.44cc then that would be a problem. I say go for it.

[Logan #34's Dad]

I agree with Reimer. AND I guarantee no-one will care unless you beat them - which I'm sure he will. There are some real fast kids in that class soooooo. You'll be fine. I'm sure they give a little (plus-minus) on the mearsurements anyhow. Besides - maybe you measured wrong. :devil:

[redonkulousruntsracing]

It might not matter now anyways, it broke a piston yesterday so I may have to replace the cylinder, maybe I can save it but I dont know yet. We will run be at Steel City if all goes well, I hope to have all of the early season gremlins worked out by then.

[Ryko racing]

A FTER LAST SEASON IN THE 50 CLASS ( PROTEST AFTER PROTEST)

THE RACE DIRECTOR SAID THAT ANYONE CAUGHT RUNNING AN ILLEGAL MOTOR WILL BE SUSPENDED FOR 1 YR FROM THAT RACE.

I KNOW IT IS EXPENSIVE BUT IF BY CHANCE SOMEONE CAUGHT YOU IT WOULD BE TERRIBLE FOR YOUR BOY AS THEY WOULD ALL CALL HIM A CHEATER. ( ITS NOT WORTH $ 200 BUCKS)

Unfortunately my son was labeled a cheater at our local races by a father ( of course behind our backs, never protested).
It was a shame as it really bothered Ryan, but I just told him that people were jealous because he could ride better than they could and i was willing to spend more time making sure his stuff ran correctly on race day.

Actually it turned out to be a compliment to me and a motivator to him...

[marsrace2]

The Track we are racing at this year has a $300 protest fee, I am hoping we get protested. I could use the money!!

[LT80]

Lost Creek Cycles bought some really nice lawn chairs with my protest money in 1998. LMAO

[mushinracing]

why would you come on here and admit something like that . and hell yeah you beat my son on a illegal motor i wold tear you down every race, every moto. rules are rules me and others spend alot of money to go fast inside of the rules.

[Ride1Rob]

I might be wrong but I think he was posting it for 1) to let people know 1st hand rather than hiding it and 2) to get opinions. Myself, knowing what I know I wouldn't protest his kid. I'd look Jam in the eye's and tell him he needs to get faster. But you're right rules are rules and the line should be drawn. I just couldn't bring myself to protest any kid over something that didn't determine the outcome of the race. Just my .02.

[redonkulousruntsracing]

honestly, I never thought about what I did breaking any rules. I was just trying to get my sons bike back together for a double points race at Unadilla on Sunday. Someone pointed out to me that it probably would be over 50cc's. And at that point what's the sense of lying and trying to hide it? Mushin; I know there are people like yourself out there who would protest over something so petty. Ya really think that extra .44cc is going to give my son an advantage, don't be rediculous. That's just using the system to make excuses if my kid does do well, cuz we are really big cheaters ya know. That's pretty sad that people would make that big a deal about what I have done. I know rules are rules, and I have totally built his quad around them. So my sons engine breaks a piston and gouges the crap out of the cylinder, I did what I had to.I have explained to my boy that we might get crap from some people if he wins, but we will take that risk, and if he wins on skill and heart,and someone wants to protest us over .44cc, well let them make excuses I guess.

[EthansDad]

I'll take Rob's lead here that you are looking for some observations. from the guy who's kid has won the last three rounds of this class, I'll share a few.

first, we stay 100% within the rules. not even close to a grey area, not even on the edge - and we do that at all cost. it would be a *lot* easier to make my own interpretations of the rules on many fronts that I won't list here, but I don't no matter what the cost or performance loss.

We've experienced more attention this year than ever before, both good and bad. I again won't get into details, but I will say some people would want to protest us for less than a .44cc difference. Do I like that, or think its fair for a bunch of 5 or 6 yr olds? no. that is why I do what ever possible to never get my kid in that situation by stepping over the line.

I also seem to remember a post from you that stated " have been trying to keep it ATVA legal, but after going thru tech at a National event, and having just my number plate being checked, I'm not caring much about that now."

the whole post is here: http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=403247&highlight=china

After a post like that, I shake my head a bit to your commit against Mr. Ward. a lot of folks stick to the line of the rules 100% and spend a good deal of money to show up and run the class like the AMA designed it. I don't think he's looking for a reason, just trying to keep the rules straight so the next guy doesn't take it even further and unbalance the class.

[mushinracing]

well so you know i have never teared anyone down in my time but when some one comes on the fourm and says they built a motor and knows it over the limit what would you expect why not build it 10 over . some people just dont understand why rules our in place. every father out there wants there kids to be in the front and have fun but setting them up for faliure i just dont get. why in the world would you knowingly cheat , that will only haunt you and your son through his carrier but if winning means that much to you than so be it . you will only lose a vaulable princple in life. and by telling the truth that will only cruve your conceince on the whole cheating thing

[mini racer #39]

As many of you know in the ATVA Racing world, I am a stickler for the rules. This is JMO so take it for that. I have no interest in the 50 class but 2 years ago was a mechanic for a 50cc rider. When the bike came to me with 2 rounds left to go, I found some problems and got them fixed. We went to Red Bud and the kid was FAST. Rumor was we cheated! We went to Loretta's and with Billy Holt's help late one night tearing it down in the trailer...the next day we turned the fastest lap time. Well needless to say the protest was filed but I knew we were legal so I didnt care. I took it as a complement. Just remember the only one who pays the price for an illegal bike is the KID! not the dad...not the mechanic...just the kid...gets that label. So stay legal that way you have piece of mind and take it as a complement if your legal and get protested.

[zach R 7x]

This situation happened to us about 3 years ago at the local level,our engine builder at the time messed up our 70 motor,so i thru a bunch of misc.parts together and raced. we were over the cc limit and I knew it,but my kid did not. All he knew was he wanted to win,and he did. Then came the protest. Of course we got caught and lost all the points,trophy and the big smile on my son's face turned to tears! just not worth it IMO!


Jerry is right the kid is the one that gets labeled the cheater not the mechanic.

[redonkulousruntsracing]

I know, I know why the rules are there. After I realized that my motor is oversized that 's why I placed this post. I was trying to figure out if it was worth us coming out to a National event or not. That is why I thought it best to be up front and honest about it, and not try to slip one by, because I do think my kid is an excellent rider (as do all parents), do I want my son to be labeled a cheater, hell no. I get more satisfaction watching him battle bar to bar with a kid for the lead on a motor that is held together with copper silicone, a cereal box and STD.bore rings on a broken .50 over piston. Was I trying to cheat, well does it sound like it??? Would a cheater openly admit what he has done?? I was more worried about getting Seth's engine together so we could race this weekend. I have gone to great lengths to build his quad within the rules. When I found out my motor was oversized, I didnt know what to do, it broke another piston on Sunday so now our budget is completely depleted. Sure I would love to put a new cylinder on it , but that means more $$$ for one and to have it all re-ported which wasn't cheap. So I am in a dilema, I could rob our travel money to buy a new cylinder to make it legal, but then I would be spending the $$$ saved for the trip to Steel City and we couldn't go, or just put ANOTHER piston in my illegal cylinder and stay home. Either way I feel like I am dissapointing my son, he is realizing that ol' Dad isn't made of money and that we have already spent too much this year getting his bike ready just to have it break 2 motors in 2 weeks. I know this is an expensive sport, and I thought we would be prepared for the season, but s#@t happens and now I have to figure out what to do with it. At least now I know what would happen if we came to a National with the motor we have, better now than after a race. And Mr. Alhm, thanks for having a good memory, because I too remember that, that was our only experience with the Nationals and I wasn't really impressed with the "teching" process, but that was only one race at one track so I wasn't too sure what to expect. Another reason why I hung my dirty shorts out to dry. Probably some thought it was a dumb move on my part to openly admit to breaking the rules, but as I said better to find out now than after a race. If you can understand where I am coming from, thanks; if not, well we all have opinions.....

[edwardsp&b]

I can see your side somewhat Seth, I understand that your just trying to let your kid race and your doing what you can afford finacially. When motors blow, it really sucks!

However ive been at every race this year and i can tell you exactly how much wrenching these guys put in to stay within the rules. Those little 50 stocks are real finicky, and it takes alot of time and know-how to get them to run that fast within the rules. So i can see there side too!

Ethansdad puts in more wrench time than anyone i know, and that quad is as legal as you can get. You cant blame him for being pissed if they got beat by what they know was an illegal quad, when they spent that much time to make theirs legal.
bryan

[Ride1Rob]

SickairSeth, my advice to you would be sit Seth down and explain to him your situation, explain to him what's be done, and then explain to him the consequences. If he says, "Dad, I just wanna race for the love of racing and I don't care if I get protested" TAKE HIM! Unlike Mr. Ward, who runs Kodi all over the country, you've said this is your only opportunity of the year to take Seth to the Nats. If he were in your shoes with limited finances and no extra parts that would completely change his outlook on the situation. I for one think you have good intentions as you posted it and didn't hide it. Everyone here knows .44cc's WILL NOT determine the outcome of that race. Despite that, there are those that have read your situation and won't look at it for your boys sake of being able to race and seeing the smile on his face. All they care about is winning and their child. It's sad what we have come to as a society to see your situation and still have no compassion for Seth :( . Sad sad sad.....

[redonkulousruntsracing]

And that's what I did. I already talked to Seth and told him that if we went he probably wouldn't get to keep any trophy that he might earn and that we weren't going for points or a championship. That we were just going really to get his name out there and let the people that have helped us out, see how he is progressing in his racing , and to see where the level of competition is. Luckily the level of competition is on the rise in our local series, and to be honest, I loved seeing him ride his heart out Sunday at Unadilla on a cobbeled up motor that I threw together in 30 minutes that had 95 lbs of compression and would barely idle. He just looks so strong and confident on his bike, that with a properly built motor under him I think he could have something for the National riders. Hopefully, one way or the other I WILL make it happen. Any one need to buy a kidney, I got one to spare......:blah:

[jerkyboy]

My .02 a stock cylinder is not that much money. You already wasted that on boring and 2 oversized piston and rings. Even if you race your local seriece you are still not legal. Just buy a stock cylinder and get it ported when the funds allow. Like somone said in a earlier post if you get caught its a 1 year suspention from ANY ama/atva sanctioned event and I was there when that was said.

[mushinracing]

how much money do you need maybe i can raise it for you? every parent out there wants to see all the kids having fun, but teaching them to cheat isnt cool. suck up your pride and ask for help.

[redonkulousruntsracing]

Seriously, it's not a pride thing for me asking for help. I have been after my engine builder to help me out, I had the President of our local District take the time last Thursday to bore my cylinder. I just traded some electrical work last night to have the exhaust flange repaired on that damned cylinder. I have called Teri @ Apex, Rich @ Hetricks, Cory @ Kool Kidz, G-Force..... looking for answers, now I am just waiting for my engine builder to get back to me so we can discuss my options and how much more $$$ this is gonna cost us. I am soooo thankful to those who have helped us along the way. I want to make it RIGHT!!! I am at work right now and I have spent more time the last 2 days trying to get this problem solved than actually working, but, this crap is like an obsession.....aaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!

[edwardsp&b]

Im with Mushin, if you need a few bucks i would'nt mind shooting a few your way. Im not the richest guy in the world, but i like to see the kids have fun. And if it cost me a few bucks, hey its worth it and it will come back to me some day. Find out how much it costs (cant be that much) Id rather see you show up on a fully legal motor, than one that we know isnt legal. Then if Seth can compete with the national boys, he will know thats its him and not the motor.
If not run seth in the 50 cvt class.
bryan

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by mushinracing
how much money do you need maybe i can raise it for you? every parent out there wants to see all the kids having fun, but teaching them to cheat isnt cool. suck up your pride and ask for help.

From Wikipedia:

Cheating is an act of lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition. Cheating characteristically is employed to create an unfair advantage, usually in one's own interest, and often at the expense of others,[1] Cheating implies the breaking of rules.

He didn't lie, deceive, trick, or create any unfair advantage. There is however a rule violation. Even though he found this out after it was done it is still a rule violation. With that being said, how is he teaching Seth to cheat? I am with you as well on raising the money. I have $20 to send ;)

[#404's Dad]

I (my shop Fierce Powersports) have a 50cc DRR ported cylinder that is national proven year before last to run up front that I am willing to loan you, I will provide:

1- Cylinder (Freshly Honed)
2- Head
3- Piston
4- Pin
5- Clips
6- Bearing
7- Gaskets

All parts are new other than the Cylinder and Head. If you accept this I only have a few stipulations:

1- You Pay Shipping
2- You ALWAYS have a Clean OILED filter on it.
3- You keep the Piston and or Rings fresh.
4- You return it at the end of your season or when you get new stuff, whichever comes first in the same condition .

If you decide you want this deal send me a message with your shipping info or call me @ 1-866-461-3732 and I'll get it headed your way by tomorrow. Hope this helps.


Corey

[hasbeenttduner]

You have to love this big mini racing family.
Good luck sickairseth. Riding the tight budget toy fence is tuff and it's great to see you are doing all that you can to let your kid be out there riding.

[edwardsp&b]

Nice one Corey. I gave a top end away a year or so ago to a little girl that runs our locals. If not he could have had mine. At the end of the day its about the kids and not us, and if i can help a kid race i will do it. I see how much passion my son has for racing, as i am sure others do, and I will do what it takes to make sure we can keep on doing what he loves. Hope to see yall in PA.
bryan

[mushinracing]

give gary from g-force a call and them him what you need i will cover the parts.

[121dad]

Hey scott can i throw a new cobra on there too ?

[EthansDad]

wow, you do have to love this mini quad community. a bunch of great options here, I hope you get it figured so we can have a drama-free season that the kids will enjoy and remember. look forward to meeting the northern racing crowd in a couple weeks.

-EA

[redonkulousruntsracing]

You guys are too much.....I really dont know what to say. Thank you for all of the offers. You guys really must understand how important this is to me, seeing Seth out on the track hammering the jumps, hanging off the seat for the corners and just the intensity he shows when he is on the gate. Our local series is one big family, last weekend I just wanted to go hangout and relax at the track, and I spent 2 days thrashing on quads, to get kids out on the track, including mine. It as all about the kids for me. Last season I volunteered to be the voice for the mini-quads in our local District 3. Before last year they were just an "exibition" class. This season they are a full points class and treated as equals now at the races. 2 weeks ago we had 28 mini-quads at the races and @ Unadilla on Sunday we had 30!! I have been appointed the 50-65cc/mini quad coordinator for District by the President. So now I am fighting to keep my kid racing week to week in a class that was made for kids just like him. Like I said earlier, it really is an obsession for me, and when I am not able to provide my son with the best machine I can build, within my means, I feel like I have let him and myself down.

Wow, I must have taken my wifes hormones this morning. Thank you to all that have offered to help, I will talk it over with Momma and decide what we should do next.

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by sickairseth
Like I said earlier, it really is an obsession for me, and when I am not able to provide my son with the best machine I can build, within my means, I feel like I have let him and myself down.
.

Letting your kid down would be failing him as parent. Not providing for him when you have the means to do so. Being there for him when he needs you and supporting him when he's right as well as correcting him when he's wrong. Riding/racing atv's shouldn't be on the top of your list as to what you're doing right with Seth. My Dad told me he'd never buy me something I was kill myself on. I never had a bike till I was grown. But he was THE BEST Damn Father on this planet because he was a provider, gave me love, and whooped my a** when I was wrong ;) . LOL Good job and keep up the good work with your son.

[mini racer #39]

take scott or corey up on their offers corey has helped me and scott helped us last weekend if you dont take their help get a hold of me and i will get with billy holt and see if we can help. who is your motor builder

[redonkulousruntsracing]

Well I have heard from my engine builder, finally, they got wind of this post and heard about the offers from complete strangers to Seth and I. They have not talked about how much this will cost me, but I basically told them my situation and that I felt that they should make this right with me, or that would be the last phone call that they would get from us, so we will see. They are now looking for an Apex 50cc cylinder. I too, have called around and cannot find one, so maybe someone out there has one sitting on a shelf somewhere....

[#404's Dad]

I see your signature has "2010 Team Apex rider" in it, being a Team Rider for Apex they can't help your boy out w/ a cylinder?

[redonkulousruntsracing]

I am trying to get one form them, but haven't heard anything back. My engine builder told me that I really should stick with an Apex cylinder, I was told the ports/timing is a lot different from the DRR/Access cylinder.

[redonkulousruntsracing]

Well, it's done. I sent my engine back to the builder and $300 later it has a new top end on it and is now 100% legal. I wanted to thank every one for there offers to help, I never expected that kind of response. My engine builder ate some cost, labor, machine work and shipping expenses and the other $300 was on me. I really dont know if Apex helped me out much or not, $200 for a bare casting, stock 50 cylinder sounds steep to me, oh well at least have have my old one that I sunk over $400 in, that I can use as a paperweight. Whatever, all I care about is that my boy has an engine that will stay together for more that an hour. I should have it tomorrow and will have it running tomorrow night.
One way or the other, I will figure out a way to get Seth down to Steel City so he can race, that is all he has talked about for the last 2 weeks. Hope to see some of you there.

[marsrace2]

seems high, I have never found Apex to be very helpful at all.

[redonkulousruntsracing]

Well running one for 2 years now, we are kind of at their mercy. I went so far as trying to buy cylinders from Senchen Industries in China where the Apex 50 cylinder is made. It's from an Aprilia SR50 and Yamaha Aerox scooter!!! But again no luck...

[marsrace2]

Yeah, us too. Been running Apex now on our third year but after the crap that was pulled on us will quit racing Mini Quads before buying from them.

[Ride1Rob]

So this is the way they treat a Team Apex rider? Hate to see what the average Joe gets. If it were me I'd erase that off of my sig :ermm: . Glad you got it all worked out ;)

[redonkulousruntsracing]

It really is pretty sad/frustrating what we go thru just so our kids can race, I really feel that these bigger companies have us by the short hairs, and if you dont buy something from them, who cares, there is a line a mile long of people just begging to throw their money at them. I have been looking into starting up my own parts supply house, but have been having a real hard time finding distributors and/or supply houses, Seems like every thing either takes me to China or the UK. I soooo wish that I could have convinced my son to ride a bike, but he absolutely loves his Apex, and he rides the ever livin' crap out of it. Ya really have to love/hate this mini quad racing.

[#404's Dad]

Welcome to the world of mini quad racing!! Doesn't sound like Apex helped ya out too much which is no surprise and I don't think your engine builder did ya any favors either =(

At least its done and your boy can race and have no worries about getting in trouble.

[redonkulousruntsracing]

Like I said, I recieved more offers for help from total strangers than the people that I have spent thousands with, that is why I am on the verge of doing my own thing, alls I care about is giving my boy the machine he deserves. He battled to a 1st and a 2nd on a bottom of the tool box parts and silicone special motor sporting a whopping 90 lbs of compression. I soooo cannot wait to see what he can do with an engine that actually has some power, hopefully Sunday will be that day. My engine builder and parts suppliers have already cost him 6 races this season, that we didnt make it to because his quad was lacking parts, I am just sick and tired of it. I dont care if he brings it off the track in a basket, I want him to abuse that crap out of that Apex, if he breaks it bad enough maybe we will just go to Disneyland instead of the track!! UUgggh I am so done with all of it, I just pray it holds up to the pounding he is about to give it, last year started the same way, and after we got the demons exorcised, he rode it to 11 wins and 8 2nds with out me putting one cent into it, I just pray its over for this season, cuz I am done with it , that's 4 sure.

[marsrace2]

I pretty much just buy from Justin at MAX RPM now. He seems to have or be able to get just about anything you need. He is the guy that imports most of the Mini parts into the US.

[redonkulousruntsracing]

Really, I just wanted to come on here and say Thank you to every one who offered to help us out. Sorry about all the ranting... hope to see ya'll at the track soon. Peace, I'm out beeeotch.:blah:

[#404's Dad]

Originally posted by sickairseth
Like I said, I recieved more offers for help from total strangers than the people that I have spent thousands with, that is why I am on the verge of doing my own thing, alls I care about is giving my boy the machine he deserves.

My engine builder and parts suppliers have already cost him 6 races this season, that we didnt make it to because his quad was lacking parts, I am just sick and tired of it.

Who is your engine builder, is it Kool Kidz beings that is in your signature or is it someone else?

Doing your own thing isn't always easier/better ya still have issues getting your hands on the higher demand items.

[greenmachine70]

Originally posted by Ride1Rob
So this is the way they treat a Team Apex rider? Hate to see what the average Joe gets. If it were me I'd erase that off of my sig :ermm: . Glad you got it all worked out ;)
Rob,
all you got to do is email them and act interested in APEX and voillah you are a "Team APex Rider".
We are on their email list as a "team" rider and you know we dont own one.....lol
The new apexs' appear to be an awesome ride and I was gonna get one, but it seems you can pull more power from a DRR because of the pipe. IMHO

[Ryko racing]

I understand both sides of this discussion.
We had a local track a few years back that refused protests as they said rider ability is all that matters.

it got so out of hand that now the parents quit going and he went from about 50 mini quads per race to 8.
( I ACTUALLY HAD A DAD ALMOST PASS ME ON A STRAIGHTAWAY AND I WAS ON A WRH 105 CVT THAT I USED JUST FOR DADS RACING) He was on a cvt that they raced in 50 cc class and weighed 25 lbs more than me.
My point is that the rules are made so that it does not get out of hand. ( .44 CC PROBABLY WONT MAKE A DIFFERENCE BUT THE LINE NEEDS TO DRAWN OR PEOPLE WOULD KEEP PUSHING IT)

Unfortunately it seems that Seth meant no harm. But, there are many people that spend virtually every penny they make to take their kids to a National and race for points, now if he would beat one of them and at year end maybe cost them a championship( which probably cost his dad about 40 grand to contend for)
That would be a shame too.
As I said there are two sides but rules are rules.

Good luck to everyone..

[Ride1Rob]

If he beat them it was because of his ability not because of all the horsepower and torque the whopping .44cc's gave him.


Originally posted by greenmachine70
Rob,
all you got to do is email them and act interested in APEX and voillah you are a "Team APex Rider".
We are on their email list as a "team" rider and you know we dont own one.....lol
The new apexs' appear to be an awesome ride and I was gonna get one, but it seems you can pull more power from a DRR because of the pipe. IMHO

Wow, That's pretty funny. So you guys are Team Apex riders also ha? They must have come up with the slogan of there's no "I" in Team lol.

[Arctic Cat Dad]

Apex will not help a rider at all. I called greg the owner and told him my name. He said your Michael Mussi's Jr's dad. He knew everything about him. We couldn't keep a belt on for over 20 minutes. He said Michael was to hard on equipment. And it was all the rider's fault. I put around a grand trying to figure the clutch problem out. We talked over a dozen times. He then said he was going to send a bunch of free parts to get it fixed,for free NEVER seen them. Well to bad it got sold. And he could have won another National Championship for Apex. His Loss.:D

[marsrace2]

yeah, he definately doesnt know how to treat customers or people in general for that matter.