07 450r no start

[04450r]

just bought a built 07er..i have about 10mins on the bike..had a hard start when i got it but it had been sitting for awhile..first off specs,14.1 wiseco,hc 2 cam,full mid to upper Jay Riddle port/polished head,+1 intake stainless valves,springs,new plug,lrd pro4r exhaust,twin air filter,msr a/f screw,168 main,50 pilot and quick shot 2,green wire mod..cleaned carb,pilot circuit clear,has consistant spark,leak down tested ok,valves in spec,grounds good...cdi problems?weak coil or stator?any ideas?we are gonna start swapping parts off of another 07,was just curious if they are known for anything....thanx

[quad2xtreme]

green wire mod? I thought that was 2006 only.

[quad2xtreme]

I pump my throttle (prior to hitting the start button) about 10-15 times especially if it has been sitting.

[DnB_racing]

does your quad run after pump start? and doesn't the 07 have the same wiring as the 06? I thought the green wire is the same in both and that you can do the mod. 10 or 15 times that many? I have never had to pump throttle more than 2or3 even after sitting, that many times might flood motor

[06 Honda 450R]

My starter had alot of problems starting with my 14 to 1, so i put kick start on, it could be you starter, or even a weak battery, also, check to see if you are gettin spart, if not, you probably need a new stator

[quad2xtreme]

I read about the green wire mod in the frequently asked questions section. Obviously, the FAQ section could be wrong...which is why I questioned it and said "thought". I rarely trust information until I've verified with multiple sources.

[04450r]

batt and starter good..has spark ,just dont know if its enough

[DnB_racing]

will it run if jump start, or a LITTLE starting fluid?

[06 Honda 450R]

if your hittin the throttle like 15 times before you start it, you are most likely flooding it, try without any, then try with like 3 pushes

i know this might be a dumb question, but is your fuel on? is it old? is it race fuel? 110?

[bananas]

14 1... Use race gas.. Drain it and fill with god gas. Make sure your float isn't stuck too...

The float will get struck if you have sh-- gas in it just sitting for a month or two....

Have you tried getting a pull start?

I know you said your values are good, make sure they are. If you can pull it to get it started it might be your values or
a jet came out.

[04450r]

thanx for the suggestions guys!..everything was checked..yep fresh fuel...come to find out either the guy who built the motor or previous owner installed cam 180 off:mad:

[DnB_racing]

you said it ran for 10 mins with cam out 180? com on tell the truth you did it lol. just a question how can you put the cam out 180? the top end is only attatched by the chain, and the plug puts out spark at both 180 and 360 the tdc on the crank is tdc every 180 making it imposible to be out 180 you can be out of time but the marks wouldnt line up

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
you said it ran for 10 mins with cam out 180? com on tell the truth you did it lol. just a question how can you put the cam out 180? the top end is only attatched by the chain, and the plug puts out spark at both 180 and 360 the tdc on the crank is tdc every 180 making it imposible to be out 180 you can be out of time but the marks wouldnt line up
X2

[quad9]

yes it will run... but it will run like MAJOR crap... i was working on his 450 last night when we discovered it is 180deg out...
and no he did not do this the previous owner did....

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by quad9
yes it will run... but it will run like MAJOR crap... i was working on his 450 last night when we discovered it is 180deg out...
and no he did not do this the previous owner did....

Can you describe the methodology used to ensure it isn't 180 degrees out so others don't make this same mistake?

[DnB_racing]

with the top end not installed there is no compression stroke as long as the piston is at tdc when you install the head it cant be out 180 it's impossible to be out 180 the crank and stator dont care about which 180 its at. only the top end makes it the 4 stroke the bottom is only running up and down so you can be out of time but not by 180 I have seen some people line up the F instead of the T that would cause what you said running real bad and sometimes even valve clearance problems but there is no 180 out If there is I would like to have it explained because I dont think its possible you could have it out 90 but then the marks wouldnt line up

[quad9]

the flywheel was at "t".. the crank gear dot on the right side is lined up.
the cam lobes were at " 7:00" looking from the left side on the motor.. they should be at "2:00".. so it was opening the valves at the complete wrong time...the thing we dont know yet is if the vavles hit the piston??? this motor has +1 valves, and a huge piston.... i dont understand how it ran myself.. but it did..

[DnB_racing]

now that you have it running is everything good? no noises or compression loss, if you valves had any damage it should be noticeable. as long as it sounds good and is running good you should have no damage update your finding for me please thanks im interested in the results

[quad9]

motor is torn down. intake valve hit piston.

[DnB_racing]

that's too bad. sorry that it worked out that way I hope you got a good deal, well you can make it sick now if you want, what got ruined hopefully you can salvage some parts

[quad9]

looks like the valves just barley touched the piston.. we are sending it all to the machine shop today to have everything inspected.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
with the top end not installed there is no compression stroke as long as the piston is at tdc when you install the head it cant be out 180 it's impossible to be out 180 the crank and stator dont care about which 180 its at. only the top end makes it the 4 stroke the bottom is only running up and down so you can be out of time but not by 180 I have seen some people line up the F instead of the T that would cause what you said running real bad and sometimes even valve clearance problems but there is no 180 out If there is I would like to have it explained because I dont think its possible you could have it out 90 but then the marks wouldnt line up

X2. Guarantee it was off a tooth or two...might have even jumped timing recently.

[DnB_racing]

ya thats a good point Q2 it might have jumped time when you put together Q9 check your timing chain real good and the chain sliders and self adjuster to make sure it doesnt happen again

[quad9]

nope it was straight up 180 out.. it is my buddys 450. he just got it like 3 weeks ago. the motor work was all done befor he got it.
we did not even notice it was 180 out at 1st. we were trying to figure out why it was so freeking hard to start and run like crap.. everything was lined up.. but the cam lobes were at "7:00" not at "2:00"..
basicaly what i was told is as long as there is a little bit of fuel it will fire being 180 out... these motors fire every 180deg.. so it was firing with the piston " at bottom dead center"..
since it is sucha high comp motor.....i guess i under stand??? why it works that way..on paper there is no way it should work.. but it did..

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by quad9
nope it was straight up 180 out.. it is my buddys 450. he just got it like 3 weeks ago. the motor work was all done befor he got it.
we did not even notice it was 180 out at 1st. we were trying to figure out why it was so freeking hard to start and run like crap.. everything was lined up.. but the cam lobes were at "7:00" not at "2:00"..
basicaly what i was told is as long as there is a little bit of fuel it will fire being 180 out... these motors fire every 180deg.. so it was firing with the piston " at bottom dead center"..
since it is sucha high comp motor.....i guess i under stand??? why it works that way..on paper there is no way it should work.. but it did..

You can believe what you want but a cam 180 degrees out isn't out at all...it would be right back in timing on a 4-stroke. It may have been out by 90 degrees or 45 degrees or any other degree but 180 out. You need to call an engine builder.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
You can believe what you want but a cam 180 degrees out isn't out at all...it would be right back in timing on a 4-stroke. It may have been out by 90 degrees or 45 degrees or any other degree but 180 out. You need to call an engine builder. Q2 is exactly correct! Q9 if you have the lob at 7 that's called exhaust stock meaning the piston is at tdc on the exhaust stroke, think about it the bottom part goes around 2 times and the top goes once as the cam sprocket is 2 times the size of the crank gear draw a circle with tdc at 180 and 360 it should make sense once you draw it out, the piston goes one cycle to half of the head cycle. the thing that your missing is there is only one cam and unless your cam shaft is magically moved the lobs there is no way that valves would hit at this point they have the same clearance at 180 and 360