440 or 416?? Opinions NEEDED!

[raptor_02]

the other day I was sure on getting a 440kit until I talked to SPARKSRACING on the phone. They kind acted like it wouldn't be very reliable with a 10/5/1 compression piston on pump gas. They said it would be better to go higher compression and run race gas to keep engine cooler. But I have no where to get race gas around here. So which setup you think would be better and more reliable. Go with the 416 or 440?? Also I know with a 440 I would have to purchase a better clutch basket and kit. Would I also have to do that with the 416??

416

Are you gonna do the work yourself and how much do you plan on spending????

[Chanman420q]

get the hetrick 425 kit

[Natertot426ex]

Go with the JE 426 piston kit. It has a 10.8:1 piston and all the Gaskets for 150 bucks from Marcums

[mxracer111]

go with the 416 or 425..... 440's dont have as much torque as you can get from the smaller motor

[Chanman420q]

i either want the hetrick 425 or the JE 426... probobly the 425 it sounds cooler :p

[raptor_02]

Originally posted by Rico
416

Are you gonna do the work yourself and how much do you plan on spending???? my dad is doing all my work. If I go with the 416 the cam I am going with is the SPARKS AGRESSIVE DROP IN CAM. That cost $379. Cam and piston that's already close to 600. Then I figured on going with the HEAVY DUTY cam chain (100). I'm debating on a HEAVY DUTY CONNECTING ROD. Sparks site said it isn't required for a 416 but would be a smart choice. That cost like $278. On the motor alone i'd like to keep it under 800 with the 416kit. At the moment I could afford probaly 1600 in the motor including clutch work but I don't want to get a 416 national kit. So i figure I only need a piston, cam, hi rev cdi, and the heavy duty cam chain. Would you guys reccomend the CONNECTING ROD and heavy duty clutch kit and basket if i choose the 416???????????

[Chanman420q]

just get the normal things just the kit and a cam, i dont think u need that other stuff if u get a drop in... i THINK

Call Rocky Ridge Racing and have him build you a national 416 kit for around $1,500..and it comes with all kinds of goodies and is quicker than a hic-up.....:eek:

PS..Rocky Ridge is located right off the WK parkway..so It's probably close to ya...

[raptor_02]

Originally posted by Rico
Call Rocky Ridge Racing and have him build you a national 416 kit for around $1,500..and it comes with all kinds of goodies and is quicker than a hic-up.....:eek:

PS..Rocky Ridge is located right off the WK parkway..so It's probably close to ya... i'll look into that!! But say i did go with the SPARKS setup. I see this site carries SPARKS products. Would i get that 10% discount. That adds up!!

[raptor_02]

oh yea about the Rocky Ridge thing, my first race is MARCH 15 and I won't get my money for a bit. Do u have a guess on how long it would take if i did choose that route?

2 weeks maybe or around there... Rocky Ridge is pretty much a TC racing engine builder..he builds quallity stuff to say the least..lots of pro's got there start at Rocky Ridge..including Bill Ballance and Jeremiah Jones...:eek:

[Sparks425Ex]

How long you wanna wait?


a few months: Go with Sparks(I love mine)

A few weeks: Rocky Ridge Sounds Good(I hear they are great)

[raptor_02]

Originally posted by Rico
2 weeks maybe or around there... Rocky Ridge is pretty much a TC racing engine builder..he builds quallity stuff to say the least..lots of pro's got there start at Rocky Ridge..including Bill Ballance and Jeremiah Jones...:eek: I knew I have heard of that name somewhere. Do u have the #???

[Nausty]

Originally posted by raptor_02
my dad is doing all my work. If I go with the 416 the cam I am going with is the SPARKS AGRESSIVE DROP IN CAM. That cost $379. Cam and piston that's already close to 600. Then I figured on going with the HEAVY DUTY cam chain (100). I'm debating on a HEAVY DUTY CONNECTING ROD. Sparks site said it isn't required for a 416 but would be a smart choice. That cost like $278. On the motor alone i'd like to keep it under 800 with the 416kit. At the moment I could afford probaly 1600 in the motor including clutch work but I don't want to get a 416 national kit. So i figure I only need a piston, cam, hi rev cdi, and the heavy duty cam chain. Would you guys reccomend the CONNECTING ROD and heavy duty clutch kit and basket if i choose the 416???????????


You shouldn't need a heavy duty rod if your only gonna be running 10.8:1 piston or somewhere around there and the piston isn't that much heavier. It wouldn't be worth the money imo. I would recommend going with the full race cam and getting the hard faced rockers instead though. For clutch i'd go with the full hinson set up. Also I think the 416 is a good choice:) sparks motors sure are expensive though.

[raptor_02]

the cam i'm getting doesn't require hard face rocker arms. I called and they said it wouldn't work with them

[bmw500hp]

Raptor 02....
You need to do a search on ( x-rider)

Evan built a Sparks 416 and did the work himself. In his threads, he discussed the build , before, during, after and "disaster"!!!!.... There is some valuable information in the threads if you are doing a sparks 416..especially if you are doing the build yourself...

[NoWingNoPrayer]

416!

425 makes the stock clyender about ye - thin
and 440 doesnt outperform it without a new carb and ported head

Originally posted by bmw500hp
Raptor 02....
You need to do a search on ( x-rider)

Evan built a Sparks 416 and did the work himself. In his threads, he discussed the build , before, during, after and "disaster"!!!!.... There is some valuable information in the threads if you are doing a sparks 416..especially if you are doing the build yourself...

So true so true.....How can a cam be $380 and be rated as aggressive but use stock rockers...dat scares me..:(

[raptor_02]

what's the website for rockyridge?

[Chanman420q]

Originally posted by NoWingNoPrayer
416!

425 makes the stock clyender about ye - thin
and 440 doesnt outperform it without a new carb and ported head

425... but what about a JE's 426... same case or what?

[raptor_02]

i've been looking around and i found a HOTCAMS stage 2 for 129.99. About everyone on this site runs hotcams and there are no complaints. I'll probaly just go with that and the JE416 piston and save me some $$$.

Originally posted by raptor_02
i've been looking around and i found a HOTCAMS stage 2 for 129.99. About everyone on this site runs hotcams and there are no complaints. I'll probaly just go with that and the JE416 piston and save me some $$$.

Rocky Ridge doesn't have a website but just a 416 piston and hotcam will really wake up your 400ex,,i'm sure you'll be plenty happy with it...

My 416 kit isn't a rocket ship or anything but much stronger than stock and I've raced in both woods and on a MX track with TC racing 416 national kits and hung right with them...spend the rest of the money on a 36 tooth rear sprocket,,that helped trememdously on a MX track...and other small things to help your ride....:D

[Chanman420q]

whats the JE web site

[frogburner]

Mines a 406EX and I can smoke a stock Raptor,,, LOTS of torque,, plus I have the cam done too,,, HOT-ROD has the 416,, and cam too,, 2 VERY POWERFUL quads,,, A 440 gets VERY hot in the woods,,, so if you do lots of woods riding,, I would not reccommend that for ya,,, but thats up to you...

[BigThumper33]

I'm going to go with a hotcam/ je 416 set up. It is cheaper with good power gains...so I've heard. I'm curious as to why most of you run a 10.8 or near that and do not choose to go higher? Can the stock connecting rod handle a 12 or 13 to 1 compression ratio? I'm fully willing to run race fuel if the stock connecting rod can handle the compression. I have a wiseco 11:1 with xr gaskets, and I know it not a true 11:1 but I'd guess it's around a 10 or 10.5 with the thinner xr gaskets, and really did not seem to notice a difference in performance.

I've heard some good and bad things about the 440. As far as it running hot....that I don't know. I do know that Dunlap says Chad's 505ex is reliable and has never had a dnf because of mechanical issues and he races gncc. I'm cornfused!

[Chanman420q]

how much for a stronger connecting rod?

[frogburner]

Originally posted by BigThumper33
I'm going to go with a hotcam/ je 416 set up. It is cheaper with good power gains...so I've heard. I'm curious as to why most of you run a 10.8 or near that and do not choose to go higher? Can the stock connecting rod handle a 12 or 13 to 1 compression ratio? I'm fully willing to run race fuel if the stock connecting rod can handle the compression. I have a wiseco 11:1 with xr gaskets, and I know it not a true 11:1 but I'd guess it's around a 10 or 10.5 with the thinner xr gaskets, and really did not seem to notice a difference in performance.

I've heard some good and bad things about the 440. As far as it running hot....that I don't know. I do know that Dunlap says Chad's 505ex is reliable and has never had a dnf because of mechanical issues and he races gncc. I'm cornfused!



I wouldnt even mess with a silly connecting rod,,, I have 11:1 compression with OEM gaskets,,, if you have XR gaskets,, you will have a little more compression since they are thinner,,, Dont mess with that connecting rod,,, Slap it back,,, clean your valves or Bore them,, time it right with the new cam and run it for a little while ,, then the next day BLOW all your friends away,, The race fuel I have been getting is pink and it is $5.15 a freakin gallon,, but man that stuff smells delicious,,,, But any way,, if you have any major questions,,, PM me or HOT-ROD...

[raptor_02]

the connecting rod's are only reccomended for 440's and 465's. www.sparksracing.com has info on them. But I'm not getting one. I'm not thrilled about going into the bottom of the motor. A Heavy Duty connecting Rod is around 270

[BigThumper33]

I want serious compression power gains. The 11:1 didnt do crap for me. I can get b32 110 octane for 4 bucks a gallon and got dibs in on a 55 gallon drum if I need some. Is it safe to run a 12, 13 or even higher compression ratio? How high can I go before I have to start worrying about piston valve clearances? I'd rather go big compression and not such a radical cam if I can....its so much cheaper. Decking a cylinder doesn't cost jack compared to hard face rockers, new springs, etc.

[raptor_02]

from what I have heard a piston won't help u much without a cam. Get u a HOTCAMS stage 2 if u plan on racing or STAGE 1 if u r just a trail rider. Both cams cost right at 129. I've heard people going to as high as 13/1 compression. But these are fully decked out 440's. I'm a poor boy too. I'm just going with a JE416piston and a STAGE 2 HOTCAM and that shouldn't run me much over 300bucks. Those cams require stock valve springs and stock rocker arms.

[maverick]

Find Tom Miller Motorsports phone number and call them for a 416 kit. Save your cylinder and get the 416 kit. TMM will give you all the info you need.

raptor02,,if your gonna have someone do it..have someone in your backyard like Rocky Ridge do it..don't waste the time or money shipping it off to someone else..

I honestly think you should just do a 416 piston and cam of your chioce and spend the rest on other things for MX racing..

[raptor_02]

Originally posted by Rico
raptor02,,if your gonna have someone do it..have someone in your backyard like Rocky Ridge do it..don't waste the time or money shipping it off to someone else..

I honestly think you should just do a 416 piston and cam of your chioce and spend the rest on other things for MX racing.. i'm going to let my dad do my motor work. I'm only going to get the 416piston and the stage 2 cam so that shouldn't be to big of a job. I have a local honda shop who can do the boreing for me so this should work out well. THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP FELLA'S. It's untelling what setup I would have went with if I wouldn't have had your suggestions.

YOu'll be more than happy with that setup,,I can promise you that...

[ridered03]

I am plang on having a local shop boar my motor and order a 425 piston and cam from tc racing. what do u guys think of this set up? would i need any thing elese?

[ridered03]

doing all the work my self that is!!

440! No replacement for dispaclement!