disgusting

[SRH]

http://www.boobootv.com/2010/04/06/footage-of-innocent-civilians-including-reuters-employees-being-shot-to-death-by-u-s-military-in-iraq-is-released/



i kinda feel like the helicopter pilots were a bit trigger happy...but then you gotta think wtf were these people thinking with this happening to put themselves and kids in the middle of it....idk but its a mistake...ppl make them...the media shouldnt turn this on to our military... kinda crazy though

[Pappy]

It is a shame that the journalist were killed, its not a safe way to make a living.

I did a quick reading and wanted to reaffirm the weapons (beyond the pilots view of the camera straps) and found this excerpt:

"The report showed pictures of what it said were machine guns and grenades found near the bodies of those killed. It also stated that the Reuters employees 'made no effort to visibly display their status as press or media representatives and their familiar behavior with, and close proximity to, the armed insurgents and their furtive attempts to photograph the coalition ground forces made them appear as hostile combatants to the Apaches that engaged them.' "

I can buy that personally. The pilots reported they were taking groundfire before they actively engaged the targets so its fair game. Im not so hot on them lighting up the van and cant find any reports about the status of the men in the van being classifieds as insurgents or merely folks try to help wounded.

War comes at a cost.

They looked like weapons from the video. I don't blame them at all.

[250x_kyle]

most of the comments to that link piss me off. people do not seem to realize wether we like it or not that is their job. if you were put in a possible life or death situation would they not shoot? wether we want to agree with it or not deep down we are all selfish and in that situation i more then likely would have shot as well.

thinks of it this way you are drunk one day, and you decide to drive a mile or two down the road home. you crash into someone and kill them and walk away. you later find out the person was wanted for murder. everyone will see it as an ok thing, but if that person was an innocent person on their commute to work people would see you as an animal. reguardless mistakes happen it could happen to any of us.

[Guy400]

You're a helicopter pilot in a war zone, you see someone with a RPG and you begin taking small arms fire. What do you do? Assume everything is fine and risk your life and the lives of your crew or remove the threat? It's terribly unfortunate that innocent people were killed/wounded but if you're in an area like that and people are carrying guns when they're not supposed to be than you get the hell out of there. You don't get in the middle of it and take pictures.

[godzilla]

What blows me away is that with todays technology, you could google map your house and count the blades of grass on your front lawn...but the US military cant find a way to provide enough technology or training for these trigger happy soldiers to distinguish between a weapon and a f*****g camera???

[bens250ex]

at first i wasn't happy about it because it did look aweful but then again they are in a war zone they knew the helicopter was there but they never made an attempt to show they were just taking photo's. so it was a tough call, but the way the soldiers acted could have been more curtious. they acted as if it was a hunting game after they killed them all . thats what was aweful.

[Guy400]

And let's not kid ourselves, that video is not complete and it's been edited as well. We didn't see what all went on in the time before this and you can clearly see it's been edited because it jumps.

[bens250ex]

Originally posted by Guy400
And let's not kid ourselves, that video is not complete and it's been edited as well. We didn't see what all went on in the time before this and you can clearly see it's been edited because it jumps.

True, i don't think they were wrong to ingage really, but i think it was wrong on how they acted. you just killed another human like slaughtering a cow, have a little more compassion.

[250x_kyle]

Originally posted by bens250ex
True, i don't think they were wrong to ingage really, but i think it was wrong on how they acted. you just killed another human like slaughtering a cow, have a little more compassion.

it will haunt them in their sleep and every day for the rest of their lives. most of the people i know that have talked about it can tell you how many people they killed and a give a vivid description of what happened and how.

[ridered11]

It's a war.

[hjsmith00843]

I might be new here but i have to vent about this a little. I am a Iraqi Freedom Vet that served 2 tours of combat there.

The pilots done everything that they could do within reason. It is either the life of the Americans or the enemy. Some innocent lives are going to be lost in every battle but it happens. I would rather loose the lives of 100 Iraqis over the loss of 1 American.

No one should post anything negative on what they have done. Espically if you have never been in this sort of situation. I have been in much worse. That was nothing.

Try having a 10Y/O child run up to you with a gernade in his hands. What would you do. Let him take you out with alot of other Americans. I was in that situation and yes I opened fire and yes the 10 Y/O was killed. Do I regret it yes and no. The boy had no clue what he had in his hand.

But we did what we had to do. I would do it again in a hot minute. I am at homef but alot of great Americans will never make it back because of the "rules of war"

In war their are no rules. Remember That................

Those pilots deserve a medal.......

[hondariderdylan]

Originally posted by hjsmith00843
I might be new here but i have to vent about this a little. I am a Iraqi Freedom Vet that served 2 tours of combat there.

The pilots done everything that they could do within reason. It is either the life of the Americans or the enemy. Some innocent lives are going to be lost in every battle but it happens. I would rather loose the lives of 100 Iraqis over the loss of 1 American.

No one should post anything negative on what they have done. Espically if you have never been in this sort of situation. I have been in much worse. That was nothing.

Try having a 10Y/O child run up to you with a gernade in his hands. What would you do. Let him take you out with alot of other Americans. I was in that situation and yes I opened fire and yes the 10 Y/O was killed. Do I regret it yes and no. The boy had no clue what he had in his hand.

But we did what we had to do. I would do it again in a hot minute. I am at homef but alot of great Americans will never make it back because of the "rules of war"

In war their are no rules. Remember That................

Those pilots deserve a medal.......

i understand the train of thought. it not really right that kids and innocent people get killed but its a case of only the strongest survive. Because we are one of the most powerful countries in the world, a iraqi childs life does not mean as much. Its a sad part of the world we live in. :ermm:

and thank you hjsmith for your service to our country.

[bens250ex]

Originally posted by 250x_kyle
it will haunt them in their sleep and every day for the rest of their lives. most of the people i know that have talked about it can tell you how many people they killed and a give a vivid description of what happened and how.

War just sickens me. How human beings treat other human beings. At this day in age theres nothing you can do, a country cant sit back and watch as they are destroyed they have to fight back and I understand that. If only everyone could just reset lol I'll never see the day for World peace.

[bens250ex]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hjsmith00843
I might be new here but i have to vent about this a little. I am a Iraqi Freedom Vet that served 2 tours of combat there.

The pilots done everything that they could do within reason. It is either the life of the Americans or the enemy. Some innocent lives are going to be lost in every battle but it happens. I would rather loose the lives of 100 Iraqis over the loss of 1 American.

No one should post anything negative on what they have done. Espically if you have never been in this sort of situation. I have been in much worse. That was nothing.

Try having a 10Y/O child run up to you with a gernade in his hands. What would you do. Let him take you out with alot of other Americans. I was in that situation and yes I opened fire and yes the 10 Y/O was killed. Do I regret it yes and no. The boy had no clue what he had in his hand.

But we did what we had to do. I would do it again in a hot minute. I am at homef but alot of great Americans will never make it back because of the "rules of war"

In war their are no rules. Remember That................

Those pilots deserve a medal....... [/QUOTE

im not sure i agree with the pilots deserve a medal, maybe if the Iraqi were sworming a U.S. troop with open fire and they took them out but a medal for that situation? not sure about that, this type of publicity will only ignite the flames and make it worse

[hjsmith00843]

Just curious how many of you that are posting negative things about the pilots have ever been in combat.

I doubt very very very few. If not for these types of people serving your county you would not have the beloved quad that you have.

Just look and see what you take for granted and think about how many thousands of lives were lost because of you.

If you dont like how the troops handle things move to another country. Simple as that. The USA was built because of a war. And war is what keeps this country going. Sad to say but it is the truth.

[SRH]

sad thing is the helicopter pilots might take the fall

[SRH]

anyone notice the subtle zoom in on the kids...like the soldiers in the helicopter could see it that plainly... the military hid it becuase they knew how it would be percieved

[madskrillz2]

Originally posted by hjsmith00843
I might be new here but i have to vent about this a little. I am a Iraqi Freedom Vet that served 2 tours of combat there.

The pilots done everything that they could do within reason. It is either the life of the Americans or the enemy. Some innocent lives are going to be lost in every battle but it happens. I would rather loose the lives of 100 Iraqis over the loss of 1 American.

No one should post anything negative on what they have done. Espically if you have never been in this sort of situation. I have been in much worse. That was nothing.

Try having a 10Y/O child run up to you with a gernade in his hands. What would you do. Let him take you out with alot of other Americans. I was in that situation and yes I opened fire and yes the 10 Y/O was killed. Do I regret it yes and no. The boy had no clue what he had in his hand.

But we did what we had to do. I would do it again in a hot minute. I am at homef but alot of great Americans will never make it back because of the "rules of war"

In war their are no rules. Remember That................

Those pilots deserve a medal.......

I was just about to post what you said about kids in combat before I read this. I'm sorry but if a child is shooting at me or throwing grenades, I'm gonna put one in him

[extremeblastr]

honestly now? people are upset because people who were to stupid to run instead of taking pictures when they realized they were with a group who was firing on a u.s. military helicopter were killed? its called self defense people ever been in a fist fight with multiple people? ever notice how when that happens you have no idea who your hitting just swinging away and hoping you stay on your feet? same idea here your taking fire from a group of people you just shoot til it stops...

[hjsmith00843]

Here was the saying during the war in my unit......


"Kill Them All Let God Sort Them Out"

[trick450r]

Originally posted by hjsmith00843
Here was the saying during the war in my unit......


"Kill Them All Let God Sort Them Out" :rolleyes:

[godzilla]

Originally posted by hjsmith00843
Here was the saying during the war in my unit......


"Kill Them All Let God Sort Them Out"

With all due rspect to you and what you have done for your country, but that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.

[toby400ex]

Basically you need to watch the video with no prior knowledge that those people are actually holding cameras. From the sky view those cameras look like guns, they're black and have a shoulder strap just like an AK. It sucks that this happened, but I sure as hell wouldn't be in the middle of a war zone with something that looked like a gun if I didn't want to take the risk of being shot. It's similar to a kid taking a black bb gun, or a black water pistol to school. Someone sees it and the **** will hit the fan.

[JR3]

Originally posted by toby400ex
Basically you need to watch the video with no prior knowledge that those people are actually holding cameras. From the sky view those cameras look like guns, they're black and have a shoulder strap just like an AK. It sucks that this happened, but I sure as hell wouldn't be in the middle of a war zone with something that looked like a gun if I didn't want to take the risk of being shot. It's similar to a kid taking a black bb gun, or a black water pistol to school. Someone sees it and the **** will hit the fan.


+1

[mcwilly]

From what I understand, the camera men were supposed to be wearing a vest (all media type of personell) that shows they are media.
But on the other side of the coin, if that's the case then you'd think all the 'bad guys' would be running around w/ the vests as well.

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by hjsmith00843
Here was the saying during the war in my unit......


"Kill Them All Let God Sort Them Out"

I have respect for the men and women who serve there countries in an honourable fashion .... but do you think "Kill Them All Let God Sort Them Out" is an honour to your country?

I understand troops are in very hostile situations where quick judgement calls must be made ...but that's just it ... it's judgement calls. If you're just shooting to kill whoever is there, then you're not using sound judgement.

Thats my opinion.

[bens250ex]

Originally posted by Quad18star
I have respect for the men and women who serve there countries in an honourable fashion .... but do you think "Kill Them All Let God Sort Them Out" is an honour to your country?

I understand troops are in very hostile situations where quick judgement calls must be made ...but that's just it ... it's judgement calls. If you're just shooting to kill whoever is there, then you're not using sound judgement.

Thats my opinion.


AGREED!!!!!

[250x_kyle]

Originally posted by Quad18star
I have respect for the men and women who serve there countries in an honourable fashion .... but do you think "Kill Them All Let God Sort Them Out" is an honour to your country?


i think he means it as when your in that situation you have to do what you have to do, and if something like that happens God will do the rest.

You can call them animals all you want, but when you know someone personaly that laid on a grenade and saved the lives of four fellow soldiers are they really an animal? yeah they may have killed people but it was their job. Think of it this way if you were sitting in a room with your friends and someone walks in and says they are going to kill you and look like they are going to grab a gun. would you risk the chance?

hjsmith00843 if you are ever in my neck of pa theres a cold one waiting for ya.

[trx310R#24]

Originally posted by bens250ex
at first i wasn't happy about it because it did look aweful but then again they are in a war zone they knew the helicopter was there but they never made an attempt to show they were just taking photo's. so it was a tough call, but the way the soldiers acted could have been more curtious. they acted as if it was a hunting game after they killed them all . thats what was aweful.

thats what keeps them breathing. kill or be killed. id pick kill. what would you pick?

[SRH]

as far as there comments there dissensitzed to killing, of course its not going to be as shocking and stuff to them

a buddy of mine who went to iraq when it all started, said theyd clear out buildings and knock in the door and start blasting, he said there was alot of "mistakes" but without them there would of been dead soldiers

[trx310R#24]

Originally posted by hjsmith00843
Here was the saying during the war in my unit......


"Kill Them All Let God Sort Them Out"

and that is why you are still here today. thank you.

[bens250ex]

I am not sure what I would have done I would like to see the whole unedited video (I haven't looked for it). If I did engage I can tell you I would have acted more mature about the situation instead of making remarks like they did . Those soldiers wanted everyone dead . What was the reason for opening fire on the van? When did the van pull out weapons ? I know many many soldiers some earn the honor and respect and others don't .

[bens250ex]

Here is what I believe if it's my time to go then it's my time to go . If it isn't my time then I know God has my back . I'm just the kind of person that it takes alot to get me ready to beat the hell out of you but when that time comes you better watch out. But anyways is over with they did what they did weather it's right or wrong well that's not up to me . I think alot of people have mixed feelings about it and it should be left at that

[trx310R#24]

Originally posted by bens250ex
True, i don't think they were wrong to ingage really, but i think it was wrong on how they acted. you just killed another human like slaughtering a cow, have a little more compassion.

you may look at iraqis as human but they are nothing to me but cows waiting to be slaughtered. compassion? whats that?

[hjsmith00843]

I just dont understand that people that have no idea how it is to be in a comabt zone has any reason to post anything negative about the pilots.

If you were so politically correct how come you did not serve your country. Instead they sit behind a computer and trash talk the people that made it so they could ride there quads and etc.

People need to do some soul searching before posting on this topic. Think about it and see if you have room to talk or the experiance.

If I made you mad at me we ohh well. I served my time

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by hjsmith00843
I just dont understand that people that have no idea how it is to be in a comabt zone has any reason to post anything negative about the pilots.

If you were so politically correct how come you did not serve your country. Instead they sit behind a computer and trash talk the people that made it so they could ride there quads and etc.

People need to do some soul searching before posting on this topic. Think about it and see if you have room to talk or the experiance.

If I made you mad at me we ohh well. I served my time

I think people are grateful that you served your country. I'm grateful for anyone that serves for my country also .... but you wonder why some people don't support you or critisize you , just look at the comment from the guy that posted above you.

Iraqis are nothing more than cows waiting to be slaughtered? :huh I'm sorry , but in every race , nationality , religious following , you'll always have a few radicals.... it doesn't mean the whole population deserve it.

[SRH]

as harsh as it is, iraqis kinda are / were cows waiting to be slaughtered, im sure alot of good people have suffered and died that shouldnt have but thats the cost of war...basically those camera men dressed up in cow suits and got in line at the slaughterhouse , got slaughtered.....what disgusts me about it is that it was a mistake...but i think a necessary one...its also disgusting that the media manipulates this stuff to make the war look bad...you gotta have faith that your leaders are in it for the right reason and its necessary...because i doubt the media has intimate knowledge of whats going on over there


i think 70-80% of people in the world have gotten use to an artificial "safe" environment, that really doesnt exist, life is about survival so unless you want to kick some *** be prepared to get yours kicked, im a firm believer that people who think humans are above that kinda behavior are crazy its in our nature, and until you can embrace it and accept it youll never understand the way the world works

[Robin Hood]

My dad served in the air force over in Turkey when he was in his 20's. His base went under attack several times and he lost a lot of his friends who had been stationed with him. When he saw this video he went absolutely ballistic. Those soldiers should have never engaged those reporters.

It was a mistake that took innocent lives. I understand that this is war but I have to agree with my pops on this one.

And you're telling me that with the technology we have today, that not one of those soldiers could have used a pair of binoculars to make sure that they were/weren't AK's and RPGs? Come on..

[bens250ex]

Originally posted by hjsmith00843
I just dont understand that people that have no idea how it is to be in a comabt zone has any reason to post anything negative about the pilots.

If you were so politically correct how come you did not serve your country. Instead they sit behind a computer and trash talk the people that made it so they could ride there quads and etc.

People need to do some soul searching before posting on this topic. Think about it and see if you have room to talk or the experiance.

If I made you mad at me we ohh well. I served my time I am not going to respond in a total neg way to this because I don't want to piss others off but I don't have respect for you Or the guy that reffered to them as cow. and you don't even know me or the reason why I couldn't join armed forces if I wanted to ... Maybe you should think before you speak but I would finish my education before I joined which would lead this conversation down a diff road . This country has changed

[bens250ex]

Originally posted by Robin Hood
My dad served in the air force over in Turkey when he was in his 20's. His base went under attack several times and he lost a lot of his friends who had been stationed with him. When he saw this video he went absolutely ballistic. Those soldiers should have never engaged those reporters.

It was a mistake that took innocent lives. I understand that this is war but I have to agree with my pops on this one.

And you're telling me that with the technology we have today, that not one of those soldiers could have used a pair of binoculars to make sure that they were/weren't AK's and RPGs? Come on.. And your father is one who deserves respect . This is a prime example the armed forces are not what they use to be

[MOFO]

Originally posted by bens250ex
And your father is one who deserves respect . This is a prime example the armed forces are not what they use to be

Please enlighten us all about "what our armed forces used to be like"?

I was not going to take sides on this one, but I will be damned to sit here and watch people talk about our country or armed forces like you have. Lets see your resume that qualify's you to make those remarks/comments/opinions using such a broad brush.

You state that our country has changed, well you're damn right it has - you are part of that "change".

Everyone expects war to be a PC and error free - we'll this is war - you can forget about your perfect world you live in. Do some reading about our history of war - errors and mistakes have happened in every war we have been involved with. The problem with today is that every person has a video camera which gives the general public a view which they never had before and obviously most people can't handle it. Couple this with the strong progressive and liberal view where everyone should have a level playing field in life and base their decisions on "feel good" policy's - you end up with the result you have today.

[Ichoptop]

"one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter" - quote from my dad, 3 tour Vietnam Ranger.

If some other country invaded the good ol US, over threw the government, imposing their way of life on you and your family, started killing people and leaders would you fight? Would you snipe at them, set up IUDs in the street? Do everything in your power to rid your country of the invaders? Would you quite farming and herding sheep and join the revolution? Thats what a majority of the people we are fighting are doing.

[hjsmith00843]

Originally posted by Ichoptop
"one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter" - quote from my dad, 3 tour Vietnam Ranger.

If some other country invaded the good ol US, over threw the government, imposing their way of life on you and your family, started killing people and leaders would you fight? Would you snipe at them, set up IUDs in the street? Do everything in your power to rid your country of the invaders? Would you quite farming and herding sheep and join the revolution? Thats what a majority of the people we are fighting are doing.

Sorry to disagree with you but you are 100% wrong. I would say atleast 80% of them are happy that we are there. The other 20% are not.

We did not invade their country with the purpose of taking it over. We invaded bacause we thought that the Iraqi nation would be better off without the current leadership. Not just better off for the nation but for the world.

Do I agree with this I would say not really. But our commander in cheif made the desion to remove Saddam from power. Honestly I think the country was in better shape with him in power.

But I would do what I did again in a hot minute if asked to do so. I suffered 3 broken bones in my back, collapsed lung, and lots of mental problems becasue of my accident from a IED.

So dont blame the troops for actions taken in a time of war. It is there JOB to do what is told of them. That is what we were trained to do. Kill or be Killed. I would kill thousands to protect the life of my freinds or myself and not think twice about it.

put your feet in the shoes of a combat veteran before posting what you would or would not do in that situation.

[godzilla]

Originally posted by hjsmith00843
Sorry to disagree with you but you are 100% wrong. I would say atleast 80% of them are happy that we are there. The other 20% are not.



...but it doesnt matter to you who's happy or not...does " kill them all let god sort them out" ring a bell ?

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Ichoptop
"one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter" - quote from my dad, 3 tour Vietnam Ranger.




so is your dad trying to say that our US military is no different than a terrorist group?

[hjsmith00843]

Originally posted by godzilla
...but it doesnt matter to you who's happy or not...does " kill them all let god sort them out" ring a bell ?

Not once did I say that is what we done it was the saying my unit commander used while we were in combat. Sometimes negativity brings out the best in you in situations such as that.

It I offended you in saying that well ohh well. We did what we had to do to get the job done.

If you dont like the way the USA has handled it battles there are always other countries to move to.

I also think it should be a law that every able body to serve in the military for atleast 2 years. But then again it is my opinion and my opinion only. So if my opinion offends you "well ohh well"

I might seem like a *** on these topics but I am very uneasy about negative statements about the military. Why should a vet be on trial for a crime when it is his job to kill......

[Ichoptop]

you can disagree all you want, that doesnt mean I am wrong. It means we have a difference of opinion.

1. You would say that 80% ..... thats just you saying. Post a survey if you want me to believe you..Once again. Just your opinion.

2. I never stated anything about a reason we invaded, just that we did.

3. Blame troops? where are you getting that? I didnt say anything about blame.

4. "I would kill thousands to protect the life of my freinds or myself and not think twice about it." and so would some Iraqi father who has a loving wife and 4 kids.


to dehumanize the enemy is normal. Thats what is taught in boot. But they are people with family and jobs like us. They love thier counrty and celebrate holidays and kids birthdays just like us.

A quote that I heard a few days ago that is rather fitting.

"when I fed the hungry I was called a saint, When I asked why there were people hungry I was called a communist"

[hjsmith00843]

Originally posted by Ichoptop
you can disagree all you want, that doesnt mean I am wrong. It means we have a difference of opinion.

1. You would say that 80% ..... thats just you saying. Post a survey if you want me to believe you..Once again. Just your opinion.

2. I never stated anything about a reason we invaded, just that we did.

3. Blame troops? where are you getting that? I didnt say anything about blame.

4. "I would kill thousands to protect the life of my freinds or myself and not think twice about it." and so would some Iraqi father who has a loving wife and 4 kids.


to dehumanize the enemy is normal. Thats what is taught in boot. But they are people with family and jobs like us. They love thier counrty and celebrate holidays and kids birthdays just like us.

A quote that I heard a few days ago that is rather fitting.

"when I fed the hungry I was called a saint, When I asked why there were people hungry I was called a communist"

its cool we just agree that we disagree on this topic.

[hjsmith00843]

Originally posted by Ichoptop
you can disagree all you want, that doesnt mean I am wrong. It means we have a difference of opinion.

1. You would say that 80% ..... thats just you saying. Post a survey if you want me to believe you..Once again. Just your opinion.

2. I never stated anything about a reason we invaded, just that we did.

3. Blame troops? where are you getting that? I didnt say anything about blame.

4. "I would kill thousands to protect the life of my freinds or myself and not think twice about it." and so would some Iraqi father who has a loving wife and 4 kids.


to dehumanize the enemy is normal. Thats what is taught in boot. But they are people with family and jobs like us. They love thier counrty and celebrate holidays and kids birthdays just like us.

A quote that I heard a few days ago that is rather fitting.

"when I fed the hungry I was called a saint, When I asked why there were people hungry I was called a communist"

its cool we just agree that we disagree on this topic.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Ichoptop

"when I fed the hungry I was called a saint, When I asked why there were people hungry I was called a communist"

Can you clarify the 2nd part of the quote? Why would anyone be called a communist for asking a question?

...also waiting for clarification from your other quote...

[Lasher]

This is going to be a mistake posting in this topic but I just cannot keep my mouth shut on this.

How many watch a football game and play arm chair QB?
Same thing here.

Everyone has the right to an opinion and to voice that opinion (at least in this country).

It just really bugs me when people get all high and mighty about our soldiers during a time of war. Especially when they are sitting on the sidelines (or that comfy chair in front of the computer).

*** This is not directed towards any one person in this thread, just a general distain for arm chair QBs with our military. ***

Whether I agree with a war or not, any armed forces member will never pay for a beer while I am at the bar.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Lasher
This is going to be a mistake posting in this topic but I just cannot keep my mouth shut on this.

How many watch a football game and play arm chair QB?
Same thing here.

Everyone has the right to an opinion and to voice that opinion (at least in this country).

It just really bugs me when people get all high and mighty about our soldiers during a time of war. Especially when they are sitting on the sidelines (or that comfy chair in front of the computer).

*** This is not directed towards any one person in this thread, just a general distain for arm chair QBs with our military. ***

Whether I agree with a war or not, any armed forces member will never pay for a beer while I am at the bar.


AMEN to that! :)

[spec]

I also was going to stay out of this topic. I've watched the video a few times now, trying to see everyones point of view on it. I believe that the men in that chopper did what they were A. trained to do. and B. after having radio contact with higher command,and men on the ground, made the best judgment from their view point and acted on that. Now yes it is sad that children were hurt in this process.But the pilot had stated they were taking small arms fire from that group, and although they may or may not have and an RPG( the video is kind of hard to tell by) The Iraqis were tucking up behind a build, peaking out over the corner on the road in the direction our bradleys and ground soldiers were making their way in on. If the Iraqis did not intent to cause harm why didnt they stay in the middle of the streets, even show signs of no harm towards our men. I know if I was in that group of men and we really ment no harm I would not be tight against a wall acting and presenting myself in a hostile manner. I would have been waving at the chopper, trying to make it known that we intend no harm, if we condoned the US being there or not. They were in a area that had been hot all day. If the pilot had not made that choice, another one of our soldiers, another brave man who is out there fighting and risking his life so that we can have all the luxerys that we as americans may have in our country, could be dead. I'm not saying it would have happened like that if the pilot hadn't acted. Just saying thats my viewpoint on the situation and I don't think they are in the wrong. They did what they were trained to do. The media has yet to back the choices of our leaders in this war from day one. Every chance they have had, that I have seen, they try an twist the story to reflect a bad image. War is not pretty, it is not nice, and people need to start realizing this. Even if people do not agree on the reason that we are there, we are there now. And they need to stop being critics to everything that our brave soldiers are doing over there and support them. It was not our soldier choice to go to war, it was our government. They are simply doing what they have been trained to do. I could go on and on about this, but am going to leave it at my final words of thankyou to every person who has in the past or still is fighting for our country. Without all of you this nation would not be as great as it is today. Just my .02 cents, like or not.

[bens250ex]

Originally posted by hjsmith00843
its cool we just agree that we disagree on this topic.

i agree with this

[muddy400EX]

Originally posted by bens250ex
I am not sure what I would have done I would like to see the whole unedited video (I haven't looked for it). If I did engage I can tell you I would have acted more mature about the situation instead of making remarks like they did . Those soldiers wanted everyone dead . What was the reason for opening fire on the van? When did the van pull out weapons ? I know many many soldiers some earn the honor and respect and others don't .

more mature? they seemed pretty mature to me, thats how soldiers are, its their job, its what they do. they cant go in with a wussy attitude or they will most likely get killed. and the smart little remarks is just like everyone else with their jobs, its what gets them through, joking around and stuff

btw i dont see anything wrong with what they did, the one guy was hiding behind the building like he was trying to get a shot, thats pretty damn suspicious to me

and the people who feel so bad for the innocents, imagine if the iraqi's were the ones invading america, do you really think they would care if they killed innocents? i think not, i mean...they give kids guns and grenades

:ermm:

[gcart2]

Originally posted by MOFO
so is your dad trying to say that our US military is no different than a terrorist group?

it almost seems like people are avoiding your questions/statements?

Why? because your right.

i watched the video twice. the first time i did it was off google and i didnt see all the before text, it went straight to the video. and when i seen the guys walking, i seen a group of people with guns. they said they had received fire? am i correct? Id say they had reason to believe the guys walking around with "guns" over there shoulders were the ones firing upon them. When that guy looked around the corner, i was praying the video didnt stop then. i thought he had an RPG. i could have swore he did. i could only imagine being on the hele looking at that.


Could you imagine how devastating it would be if we were on a defense only law. yes it would make you happy. and to be honest, it sounds good. only fire when fired upon. hell yea. but you know what, if it came down to my life or yours, your gone. these ppl face that on a daily basis. The terrorist want our soldiers dead. We want to live, we want to defend our country, we want to go home to our families. WE WANT TO GO HOME TO OUR FAMILIES. they cant go home, they cant defend their brother/country if they are dead.

Do i believe they took it too far?? HELL NO. not in a million years would i say that. I wouldnt even think it. they did what they had to do. i have more respect for these people then anyone could imagine.

thank you for defending our soldiers. dont get dead. do what you have to do. May god be with you. Thank you.

[gcart2]

Originally posted by muddy400EX
and the people who feel so bad for the innocents, imagine if the iraqi's were the ones invading america, do you really think they would care if they killed innocents? i think not, i mean...they give kids guns and grenades

:ermm:

could you imagine what truman went through when he dropped the bombs on japan? yes he killed innocents. but it finished the war. its just that, WAR.

[trx310R#24]

Originally posted by MOFO
Please enlighten us all about "what our armed forces used to be like"?

I was not going to take sides on this one, but I will be damned to sit here and watch people talk about our country or armed forces like you have. Lets see your resume that qualify's you to make those remarks/comments/opinions using such a broad brush.

You state that our country has changed, well you're damn right it has - you are part of that "change".

Everyone expects war to be a PC and error free - we'll this is war - you can forget about your perfect world you live in. Do some reading about our history of war - errors and mistakes have happened in every war we have been involved with. The problem with today is that every person has a video camera which gives the general public a view which they never had before and obviously most people can't handle it. Couple this with the strong progressive and liberal view where everyone should have a level playing field in life and base their decisions on "feel good" policy's - you end up with the result you have today.

thank you! bens250ex is just a jackass.
when i seen his last post... you dont even wanna know how pissed i was.

[bens250ex]

Originally posted by MOFO
Please enlighten us all about "what our armed forces used to be like"?

I was not going to take sides on this one, but I will be damned to sit here and watch people talk about our country or armed forces like you have. Lets see your resume that qualify's you to make those remarks/comments/opinions using such a broad brush.

You state that our country has changed, well you're damn right it has - you are part of that "change".

Everyone expects war to be a PC and error free - we'll this is war - you can forget about your perfect world you live in. Do some reading about our history of war - errors and mistakes have happened in every war we have been involved with. The problem with today is that every person has a video camera which gives the general public a view which they never had before and obviously most people can't handle it. Couple this with the strong progressive and liberal view where everyone should have a level playing field in life and base their decisions on "feel good" policy's - you end up with the result you have today.

freedom of speech. It just pisses me off the way they acted throughout the situation. im done here have a nice day. If you want you can pm and rant all you want. i have views and i will stick to them.:D

[MOFO]

Originally posted by bens250ex
freedom of speech.


Just remember who defends your "freedom of speech".

[250R-Dee]

I guess I'll exercise my freedom of speech now!!

Here's my issue with the people who love to scream "FREEDOM OF SPEECH, Freedom of the press, freedom of whatever else".

The vast majority of the people who exercise their right to voice uneducated or totally absurd opinions will COWER under a rock like a livid ONE-CELLED organism if they were told it is their turn to defend the freedoms that have been afforded to them.

Arm-chair QB's - there just too damn many arm-chair QB's in the US exercising their right to say stupid crap while wasting everybody else's oxygen.

That's all!! :blah:

Oops.. not quite!
bens250ex - you are clueless! How about answering some the questions that have been posed to you instead giving coward-like, arm-chair, confused 4th string waterboy answers.

Most of us do NOT know what we will do in combat. In times of life and death a person, ben excluded because he would never be in that situation, has to gather all the available info at hand and then take a decisive course of action.

If you haven't walked the walk it is in your best interest to NOT try to talk the talk. Yep, it's that simple!

Now let's jump on the media. If you really think the media is leaking this video because they want to keep the public informed then I have some Pacific beach front property in Montana that I want to sell to you for CHEAP (Only $1M a 1/4 acre :devil: ).

[bens250ex]

Originally posted by MOFO
Just remember who defends your "freedom of speech".
alot of people do.

i said i agree to disagree end of subject ***** all you want and ill ***** all i want . im not going to argue anymore on the subject i said my fair share and im moving on.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by 250R-Dee
I guess I'll exercise my freedom of speech now!!

Here's my issue with the people who love to scream "FREEDOM OF SPEECH, Freedom of the press, freedom of whatever else".

The vast majority of the people who exercise their right to voice uneducated or totally absurd opinions will COWER under a rock like a livid ONE-CELLED organism if they were told it is their turn to defend the freedoms that have been afforded to them.

Arm-chair QB's - there just too damn many arm-chair QB's in the US exercising their right to say stupid crap while wasting everybody else's oxygen.

That's all!! :blah:

Oops.. not quite!
bens250ex - you are clueless! How about answering some the questions that have been posed to you instead giving coward-like, arm-chair, confused 4th string waterboy answers.

Most of us do NOT know what we will do in combat. In times of life and death a person, ben excluded because he would never be in that situation, has to gather all the available info at hand and then take a decisive course of action.

If you haven't walked the walk it is in your best interest to NOT try to talk the talk. Yep, it's that simple!

Now let's jump on the media. If you really think the media is leaking this video because they want to keep the public informed then I have some Pacific beach front property in Montana that I want to sell to you for CHEAP (Only $1M a 1/4 acre :devil: ).

I was close to typing a similar response, but that would be like putting back an expired gallon of milk into the fridge then pulling it back out hoping it would be good again... :D

He is clueless and you are absolutely right about falling back on the "freedom of speech" line as being an excuse for his uneducated and ignorant comments. He does not realize he is being a hypocrite either making his comments, then trying to use "freedom of speech" to explain his point of view.

Oh well... just another reason why we ALL need to hit the polls so people like this do not represent you or your family.

Anyways, I'm finished with this one.... you can only have a 1 way debate so long before interest is lost...

God Bless the USA and our troops abroad! :)

[250R-Dee]

Replace the word "Marine/Marines" with military!!

Semper Fi!

[hjsmith00843]

I really like that post above......

[bmxican345]

I think the soldiers acted on what they thought was a legitimate threat and took the appropriate action. however when you look at the facts of who actually was killed it sucks...

You people can say over and over how the chopper was taking fire but you cant argue the fact that they shot the wrong people, yes by mistake **** happens.

Its disturbing but its what happened. the thing that sickens me the most is the fact that after a request was made to take the two children that were injured to US doctors and rectify the mistake made, the senior officer sent them to an Iraqi hospital where they would receive inadequate care.

I just couldn't imagine being those people on the ground hearing that chopper thinking "well thank god we are on the same side" and then out of nowhere the guy next to you is torn apart by said chopper. Its just absolutely awful.