so who had the 90 classes changed?

[mushinracing]

i heard some stuff just just seeing if anyone heard differant

[JIM GRACE]

About 10 threads down goes into a lot of detail.

[zach R 7x]

enlighten us and tell us what you heard.

[mushinracing]

i heard that hetrick had some of his 90 break down on fri so fri night the class gets changed. i have heard rumors of him changing classes in the past but i have no proof nor really know him thats just floating around out there. maybe he will get on here and straighten things out. all i do know is someone said somthing. lets just see if they are man enough to tell us they did it. what a great way to teach your kids that if the rules wont work for them just change them. And they ask there selfs why are my kids always in trouble.

[121dad]

Those changes were posted on the board Friday Morning when I signed my daughter up at 8am. it was next to the classes where you paid. might want to double check your information.

[mushinracing]

i heard it over the radio fri night . the point i am trying to make if they can switch a the rules on motors the weekend of the event where other people may have maid differant motors for the rules. . but why pay the ama for sanctioning when the promoters change ama engine disp rules for classes. i dont think its right. And did ya know rich hetrick use to be a ama tear down offical . just seems shady to me . would you want to compete agianst someone who makes the rules.

[Ride1Rob]

A few of AMA's rules seem shady to me :rolleyes: . They allow suspension because of safety but keep these kids on a stock axle which snaps on impact lol. I've seen a few rules that I don't get and that alone has me turned off on competing in any AMA sanctioned mini race.

[Hetrick Racing]

Wow,just for those that care I have never suggested a rule change that did not benefit racers in general!!! Also I had to spend 2 or 3 thousand dollars and go to the meetings in October to get anything done,also if you have not attended one then you would not know that basically you submit a suggestion and those with the power(congress members) to decide yea or nae.
When I started going to these meetings there were 3 mini classes;90 super stock,70 mod and 90 mod.I think over the years I had some good suggestions,mainly you wouldn't be racing if I had not have went.Also I did not attend this year.
To end I will say I DID NOT EVEN KNOW THEY CHANGED ANY RULES AT ROUND 1
By the way I was the PRO AND PRO AM TEAR DOWN TECH once and a while I would lend them a hand on other stuff but just like you I didnt feel that was proper.
For those that have just started racing in the last year or so call me and ask if you think I had something to do with anything because MAN ENOUGH I WILL ALWAYS BE!!!!

[mushinracing]

so it sounds like you have some say in the mini class. but where was the heads up from the ama , your a fine motor builder and you cound have built a 70 over night what im trying to say what about the guy that does not have those resources i think since you have some pull you would stand up and not tolerate any such action. to keep some integrity within the class structure.there should be somthing in writing with a timeline for rule change and advertise to the public so they can be in the know.

[THARNESS]

Originally posted by mushinracing
i heard it over the radio fri night . the point i am trying to make if they can switch a the rules on motors the weekend of the event where other people may have maid differant motors for the rules. . but why pay the ama for sanctioning when the promoters change ama engine disp rules for classes. i dont think its right. And did ya know rich hetrick use to be a ama tear down offical . just seems shady to me . would you want to compete agianst someone who makes the rules.

I don't know or care what your beef is with Rich Hetrick. But mouthing off on here about stuff you know nothing about isn't cool. Is that what Mushin stands for? Rich has helped many people over the years. Sounds like a typical case of being a sore looser.

[mushinracing]

im not spouting my mouth off. just bring up a concern. . and being a sore loser tell me how can that be when the rule does not effect me im sorry for standing up for the small guys who dont have the resources . rich is a great guy from what i know just gave him the opp to set it straight. so if it wasnt rich who was it? mark smith said he knew nothing of it and ron kearsy knew nothing of it. who can just go to an offical at a race track and change a class structure in a day. thursday was 71-90cc at sign up and fri it was changed .60cc-90cc. help me here i dont get it. and my race team stands for helping people that dont have all the resources. im sorry if i struck your nerve

[THARNESS]

Listen, I know you most likely ment well it just came across as an attack on someone who has done very much to help our sport. I don't belive this forum is the place to publicly make a false accusation. Just as you were defending someone, I was sticking up for Rich. He has done alot to help me and my son's over the years.

I really like the rule, I just wish they would have told everyone about it when the 2010 rules were released so that people can plan accordingly.

I think it's a good thing that you're doing with your race team and wish you and your guys the best of luck this year.

See ya in Kentucky.

[121dad]

If your that concerned over this change why not call the AMA and ask them.

[mushinracing]

the ama has no rule change . a promoter at the event made the change. thats why u havent seen or heard anything of this from an offical site.(atva or ama) thats why im on here but if your not concerned no need to read this thread.

[Reimer Racing]

Hey Scott did you call the AMA about the rule change?? Did you call the promotor of the event? Maybe they can explain the change.

[#404's Dad]

Originally posted by mushinracing
the ama has no rule change . a promoter at the event made the change.

Thats what I heard as well, so is this going to be the rule at the next round as well then, is the AMA making the change?

They tried changing it to 60-90 in the TT Nat's for this year as well but enough voices were heard at it was over ruled last I knew of. If it gets changed then so be it, rules are rules, I do not agree with it but none the less it would be a rule and be legal but I know last year a few did this at the Nats both TT and MX and it was Cheating at that time no matter how you look at it it Was Cheating, smaller motor vs bigger motor blah blah blah it was Cheating.

[rookiewrench]

I guess I can see how some people would be upset about the rule change with no notice but I also think that if it is the "small" guy or the guy with all the money I think that "common sense " guy would not be driving 6-12 hours to a national race with one motor or the parts or equipment to fix the quad or motor if one was to have problems. And If they don't have extras that they have only themselves to blame. I understand that not everyone has the money for the extras, myself being one of them, but I would not be upset if a 70 out ran my 90.

Scott I also see the point about rule changes on a moments notice. I guess its the old "squeeky wheel gets the grease" principle. I was not there I can only ASSUME and we all know what that means.

One thing I will say is that if anyone gets the opportunity to get to meet Rich or Michelle Hetricks it is worth their time. They are great people and have ment a great deal to the sport.

Know that we know the rules , for the time being, LETS RACE!!
Good luck in KY.

[Reimer Racing]

{QUOTE} They tried changing it to 60-90 in the TT Nat's for this year as well but enough voices were heard at it was over ruled last I knew of. If it gets changed then so be it, rules are rules, I do not agree with it but none the less it would be a rule and be legal but I know last year a few did this at the Nats both TT and MX and it was Cheating at that time no matter how you look at it it Was Cheating, smaller motor vs bigger motor blah blah blah it was Cheating.

Bet I know who one of them who sneaked into the 90 class. ;)

I was the one pushing to have the cc rule changed in the EDT series. I did it the old fasion way, I called all the Promotors and the EDT Board members voiced my idea for the cc change. Then I summited a written reguest for the AMA congress to disscuss.

They did change it for a couple of weeks. Then they added a new 70cc open class so we can now run 2 classes.

So its all good lets go racing!!!!!

[#404's Dad]

Originally posted by Reimer Racing
{QUOTE} They tried changing it to 60-90 in the TT Nat's for this year as well but enough voices were heard at it was over ruled last I knew of. If it gets changed then so be it, rules are rules, I do not agree with it but none the less it would be a rule and be legal but I know last year a few did this at the Nats both TT and MX and it was Cheating at that time no matter how you look at it it Was Cheating, smaller motor vs bigger motor blah blah blah it was Cheating.

Bet I know who one of them who sneaked into the 90 class. ;)

I was the one pushing to have the cc rule changed in the EDT series. I did it the old fasion way, I called all the Promotors and the EDT Board members voiced my idea for the cc change. Then I summited a written reguest for the AMA congress to disscuss.

They did change it for a couple of weeks. Then they added a new 70cc open class so we can now run 2 classes.

So its all good lets go racing!!!!!

Sounds like you were going about it the right way Paul and it sounds like it ended up Right/Fair, with a 70 Open/Mod class and not being combined in the 90 class.

[thequadfather+2]

I dont know when the official written notification was posted but I was standing in line about 8:30 Thursday night and they anounced a rule change on the PA system regarding the 90cc class. I know that for a fact because I heard it. I had been listening for a couple hours on the radio and PA and heard it the first time about 8:30-9:00 pm.

[mushinracing]

well its a rule? the only ones that know about it are the people at the first national. i think if thats going to be the rule then it should be posted. so people who wernt there know the rules. not all parents read this forum but i would still like to know who has that kinda of pull .someone had to bring it up. i understand only having one class stinks but why not make a 0-70 open class age 6--11 i mean they could loose a 90 class since there are alot of them any way the 70 should have 2 of there own classes. and should be posted in a timely manner so everyone knows the rules. we all know that the cobras dont want us in the single speed class.

[Yuk33]

I have followed these threads on this topic since they started. This was an AMA sanctioned event and should have been kept that way. We the parents of the participants should have stuck together and not let this happen.
No I was not there due to the fact that my family is one of those that looks forward participating in the Nationals when you guys come to our home town. At least give people a heads up so everyone can prepare.
If someone has that much pull to change the rules last minute, you will probably have others break the rules. We don't have the backing like most of you guys but we give it all we can when there.
I will say, Hetrick Racing has been good honest people to deal with since we started in 2006. Two quads (DRR & Cobra) and numerous parts threw Hetrick. Met Rich & Michele both when we went to Pa & picked up both quads. We did try another big name in the Cobra industry but got all (motor, carb & 2 $470 radiators) used stuff when I ordered new.
I may not be in the loop with all the national guys, but when someone asks me for advice on mini quad parts or knowledge, I say Hetrick Racing.
No I really don't want to run with the CVT's as we are on a Cobra. The CVT's are just out right nasty now, but I can not afford to build a CVT at this moment, and it is what it is.

Joe Yourkovich
Proud father of Kohl #33 local rider.

[Yuk33]

If you googled Hetrick Racing, you would find articles were Rich worked hard supporting the youth atv's. So, I don't think Rich would have influenced a rule change.

Joe Yourkovich
Proud father of Kohl #33
2009 & 2008 Birch Creek 70cc Stadium MX Champion
2007 Dist. 13 MX 2nd place

[mushinracing]

hetrick racing had nothing to do with this i was asked what i heard and said what i heard and good thing i did because that was the rumor going around the pits and it was not true and rich set it straight .through all this i found out who did this
and it was totally wrong the way it went down. the rule was writen up thursday by an offical,. friends with the father and the rule was then wrote. we need to stick together on this heck rich could probally straighten it out it is obbiously
good to say rich has the major population vote for a reason, he must get stuff done for the good four this meany people would not stand up for him if he wasnt a good guy . i am sorry to rich and hetrick racing if my actions hurt them . i should have been more responsible but its not hard to get me going, i only want whats right for are sport sorry to all offend ed by this

[Logan #34's Dad]

Wow, I've been gone for a couple days and we now have 3 threads on this rule "fix".

Just to clear my name - Mushin said an official wrote and changed it Thursday - Another person said they heard it on the pa at around 8:30 - We did not arrive in Pell City until a little before midnight on Thursday night and we slept in the suv for the night until the morning when the workers put us in our mudhole. And we did not have our problem with our 90 until Friday in the 2nd set of practices.

As far as the rule, Again I like it. It gives the poor guy a chance to run more than one class on his one machine IF he thinks he can keep up with the larger cc'd (And exactaly the same frame and cases and suspension ect.) quads. It makes the 12 hour drives worth bothering with. I'd say most ppl would not drive multiple hours to run one class in all 11 events. It's just not worth it. A trophy - wooohooo.

Also Scott, I'd think that before you start naming names you should know the facts and not listen to rumors.

[LT80]

The AMA is a santioning body (basically supplies insurance). They do not organize and run races.
Races are run thru promotors groups.
We recommend rules to the AMA congress. they impliment a official "recomendation" to the promotor group. The promotors then do what they want. Remember,,promotor discresion..
No, I don't think it's right either...But it is what it is.

I don't see the new rule as a problem. Actually I see it as a good thing. Racing 2 classes makes more sence on a 500-1000 dollar weekend.
Anyone building a special machine for this class?? I doubt it.
I could see all the fuss if they changed another rule the next round.

In the past I've been very outspoken about the MX promotors group (mostly Scam Gammon of Victory Shorts) but in recient years, they have listened and made changes in the best interest of the racers, mini and adult.

[neveready]

Everyone is saying the rule is so they have more classes to run. They had 3 already, 70CVT,70SS,and 70mod. The rule doesn't sound to me like "just another class for seat time after driving 12 hrs" if that was the case there wasn't an issue. Problem is they cant win in those classes. I keep hearing "quit whining this is the highest level of competition not tee-ball quote" but the ones that changed the rule don't want to hear it, they didn't want to run a class they couldn't win!! The quote "it's a lesser machine" is BS. if you know it's a lesser machin and just wanted to ride you wouldve entered one of the other 2 available classes without changing a rule.

It's not that the builders can get it with the 90, the aftermarket companies just haven't put the technology in the 90. the malossi and polini and the stage 6 cup are done on 70cc machines. We can pretty well buy a complete bolt together 70 pakage and win with a good rider. The 90 machine are coming around but we don't yet have the resources like the 70.

I am not here to start rumors,complain or offend anyone!! I have just been following this and thought I would voice my opinion.

Everyone keeps saying "you need the facts", well the fact is there were plenty of classes to run, you guys just didn't want to run them!!!

[MAXRPM]

As I am reading this all, I was going to post the way it really works not how everyone is assuming but LT80 already did. What LT80 stated is correct, AMA simply gives the promoters suggestions of classes is what it comes down to, it is up to the promoters to decide what classes they run either for or against what AMA has suggested. I am not 100% for sure but I am almost positive the classes could be different from one track to the next if it was put on by a different promoter. AMA has been trying to get them to sit down together to be the same but it is not required to be the same from one promoter to the next even though they have in the past.
I agree with the rule and am for it but everyone who is against it has their right to be against it. I have no kids that race, I only am at the track to help so I have less of an opinion than the rest of you guys. Just keep in mind it is the promotors that did it and can do it, not AMA.

[Logan #34's Dad]

I just can't believe ppl have an issue with the exact same quads running against each other with one being a lesser motor. You can say what you want about the 70's having more technology out there but, the fastest 70 of the day (Wotring or Bassani) could not go as fast as the top 5 90's. If your stuff cannot keep up with Voiles, Mack, Shake, Powers to turn one then you need to do more homework. My "little" 70 was about 7th as they came down the backside of the start and was holding Shake up. After the first couple of turns it becomes a lot more about the rider.
As far as running the other 70 classes, We tryed running the 70SS last year and the "drama" was twice as bad. They have MORE of a complaint because our tranny is a Variable ratio and not a single speed. And if we look at lap times, we would have finished well in all the 70 classes. I would have loved to run our 90 but it broke and the rule said we could run the 70.
Nobody cares what you run UNTIL your rider beats theirs.

[neveready]

I just think everyone has got so off key here with finger pointing. I don't really care about the rule, I do actually like it. I just think the key topic is how and when it was changed, and the question of is it going to be a Victory sports thing? or is it now a series rule? I think people just want the confusion cleared up. Is someone going to drive to virginia or loretta's to find out it doesn't apply with that promoter?

I think they need to put an offical posting to the rule somewhere on the atvmotocross site with a final agreement for the entire series.

[Logan #34's Dad]

I agree with that Neverready.

[mushinracing]

i dont have a problem running those rules as long as everyone in the country knows thats my beef how is it a rule win its not posted on atvmotorcross.com the offical site for the nats. and your right rocky i made a mistake and it wont be the last one i promise. stan digby is the one that recommended the rule change cause he did not have a motor done yet. and it was only gonna be 1 of the 90 classes. i support anyone racing as long as they are playing by the rules me and rocky had to do it last year and rocky lost alot of money and time dealing with a bad 90 set-up. if its a rule than its a rule now lets get it posted with atva and then this will all be behind us.

[Logan #34's Dad]

AMEN.
UGH! You had to remind me of that dang Kymco didn't ya. Lol

[d1g888]

i am the one that said something last year a LL about changing the rule in the 90jr class to let the 70ss ride in there if they want to. People were spending money left and right to get that auto cluch to work on a cobra and it keep on messing up. That was my reason. Also for the record i've said since the late 90's that a class should have a max cc limit not a min cc limit. If a kid can ride a 50cc and beat my boy on a 70cc then congrads to him.

If i made anyone mad i'm sorry but i'm not going to apologize for my son out running someone if he is on a smaller motor.


Stan "BIGDADDY" Digby
ITP Factory Support
662-891-7684

p.s. to LT80 i signed my name to this LOL (something from years ago)

[mxkids]

http://www.atvmotocross.com/articles/2048_atv-mx-amateur-technical-bulletin-20101---changes-made-to-90cc-classes

Here you go!!

[greenmachine70]

Originally posted by mxkids
http://www.atvmotocross.com/articles/2048_atv-mx-amateur-technical-bulletin-20101---changes-made-to-90cc-classes

Here you go!!
I dont have a dog in this fight, but wasnt the Pell City race on March 27 not April 6. Seems it would have been available for all attending racing families to see or know before they arrived at signup in Pell City.
I agree about a rule change happening a night or 2 before the beginning of a NATIONAL Series, I mean come on this aint "tee ball":D

[nitrofish]

Why does everyone pick on tee-ball?

:devil:

[mxkids]

My kids don't race in these classes either. But I can say that we were told about it Thursday when we got there.

Is there a time frame that they go by about the rules? (I am just asking) It was changed before the first race. It may not have been done correctly, but it was before the gate dropped on Sat. morning.

There has been several people in the past that has asked to have the cc's dropped so they will have more classes to run in. I don't think it was 1 person that got this changed just because he might not have a motor to run.

I agree with Stan on this one. If his son or anybody elses kid can get out there on a lower cc quad and beat someone else running a bigger cc's quad, then the rider deserves a congrats.

[GILCO]

We raced against 70's in the 90 class for years its about time they made it legal.

[Ride1Rob]

I don't see why it's a big deal. It doesn't affect anyone NOT being able to race. It's not like parents drove to the race and found out Lil Johnny couldn't race at all because of the rule change. IT HAD NO NEGATIVE EFFECT ON ANY OF THE RIDERS. Other than those that may have gotten beat by the kids on the 70's... :ermm: It gave more kids opportunities to race more races as well as more parents opportunities to see their kids race more races. So what it was done a couple days before the race.

[Yuk33]

Glad to see the official update. Now the ones of us on the lower tier know what to expect when try and run a national.

It is what it is, at least you know what your up against now. Ride safe, ride smart, Race on !

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by Yuk33


It is what it is, at least you know what your up against now.

A bunch of cry baby overbearing parents.

[Reimer Racing]

Originally posted by Ride1Rob
A bunch of cry baby overbearing parents.

Ain't that the truth. LOL

[marsrace2]

I guess the question now is will anyone actually take out there 90 Motors and put in 70's? My bet is that they dont.

[Yuk33]

Ride1Rob
A bunch of cry baby overbearing parents.

Wrong, I don't care, I like going back to the drawing board and doing some home work.
Put them all together, CVT, SS, & Shifter ! javascript:smilie(':huh')

[1lapdown]

Originally posted by Ride1Rob
A bunch of cry baby overbearing parents.


I here ya there with all 150 cc's competing with 90cc's quads.

Funny thing is when you dont agree with someone they are overbearing whiners.....now thats funny.

Half of the folks calling names fit the mold.

Heck I say just put everyone in the same class 0-90cc's. None of this crap about tranny's and chasis, no excuses. None of this crap about a 4 stroke getting more cc's EVERYONE can run 0-90. Dont start whinning cause this aint T-ball, this is the most elite form of youth racing and I swear I dont want to hear one darn word from anyone on a 90 mod when a 70 cvt beats you, after-all that is worth all your chest thumping. How come nobody is crying to put their 70 into the 90 mod class? I think we all know the answer to that one.

You guys got to stop calling people stupid names because they dont agree with you. You are truly the typical mini quad dad.

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by 1lapdown
I here ya there with all 150 cc's competing with 90cc's quads.

Funny thing is when you dont agree with someone they are overbearing whiners.....now thats funny.

Half of the folks calling names fit the mold.

Heck I say just put everyone in the same class 0-90cc's. None of this crap about tranny's and chasis, no excuses. None of this crap about a 4 stroke getting more cc's EVERYONE can run 0-90. Dont start whinning cause this aint T-ball, this is the most elite form of youth racing and I swear I dont want to hear one darn word from anyone on a 90 mod when a 70 cvt beats you, after-all that is worth all your chest thumping. How come nobody is crying to put their 70 into the 90 mod class? I think we all know the answer to that one.

You guys got to stop calling people stupid names because they dont agree with you. You are truly the typical mini quad dad.

LOL, my sons 150cc is half the hp of the 2 strokes we run against. A 16hp China motor compared to bikes with 2Fastkits and Melossi heads that are 25-30hp. A 8 year old having to pull in a clutch to shift gears when he's racing against kids almost double his age just mashing the gas and going. Now you tell me who has the real advantage? They let Jam race in DC and said, "He'll never win on that bike because it won't compete with the cvt's". The clutch and the 4gears give us no advantage. Ask ANY parent that races DC with us. We lose places because he makes mistakes on his shifting. And by the way, we race in mod class and there are cvt's with 118kits and 128kits as well. Now you tell me who has the real advantage ;) .

[STOCKRACING917]

1lap down Thank you for putting it so eloquently. What started out as mere sympathy for a few kids got totally blown out of proportion and the name calling was just plain rude. But that is the world we live in today. We definitely come in all forms. Is this what we really want to teach our children? We want them to stand up for themselves and exercise their right as Americans to voice their opinions and not to be walked on in this world...But don't forget to teach them the ridicule you have to endure to exercise that right. That's the true sportmans attitude right? I am just glad we see more of it here on the forums and not at the track for then the "Family" enviroment would truly be lost.

[Arctic Cat Dad]

I was gonna stay out of this 1 but I can't.For 1 thing I'm glad were out of the mini's for this reason. I've seen these Wanna be racer dads to many times. They show up with there over priced mini's and just flip out when us poor ol nobody's with a mini that is half of what there's cost with a wicked kid who isn't scared of anything and smokes them real bad. Heck this is racing if a kid can beat your kid on a tricycle and your kid is on a rocket the kid is better,that's racing.Get over it!

Remember this for the kids! If a 70 can beat a 90 then your doing something wrong. It might be the kid or it might be the dad. That's racing.

I once had one of these dads come over to me and in front of my son who was only 7 and on A 70 that just whiped his 11yr old boy on a well built 90cc 2smoke and just raise HECK and said we were cheating. I just smiled and told him, How can a little 7 yr old on a 70cc quad be cheating when he was racing against 90's and 125's.

Some dad's just hate to lose. My son HATES to lose more then any 1 in this world! U know what he does if he gets beat? U should see practice the next week or so.That's what makes him faster.It's good for them!!!:D

[thequadfather+2]

Hey Rob, I pasted this from Hetrick's forum.....

Hetrick quote:

"The 90cc RACE PIPE is finally proved and tested enough that I am happy."

"Just an Idea of how well it works.on a non ported Malossi 50mm kit 44 stroke Hag.Intake 28mm carb this pipe makes 13.9hp@6000 rpm and at 13,500 rpm it makes 15.2 hp average torque is 9ft lbs."
"Not bad for a bolt together kit."

As you can see non ported malossi kits on a 90 with an intake are producing 14-15 hp. I am def doing something wrong if the guys down there are getting 30 hp (twice the power) out of a bolted on malossi kit. I know some 2fast kits that are worked up getting 17-20.

Thats just in case someone out there thinks they can buy a malossi cylinder kit, bolt it on and run 30 hp on their DRR 90, not gonna happen.

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by thequadfather+2
Hey Rob, I pasted this from Hetrick's forum.....

Hetrick quote:

"The 90cc RACE PIPE is finally proved and tested enough that I am happy."

"Just an Idea of how well it works.on a non ported Malossi 50mm kit 44 stroke Hag.Intake 28mm carb this pipe makes 13.9hp@6000 rpm and at 13,500 rpm it makes 15.2 hp average torque is 9ft lbs."
"Not bad for a bolt together kit."

As you can see non ported malossi kits on a 90 with an intake are producing 14-15 hp. I am def doing something wrong if the guys down there are getting 30 hp (twice the power) out of a bolted on malossi kit. I know some 2fast kits that are worked up getting 17-20.

Thats just in case someone out there thinks they can buy a malossi cylinder kit, bolt it on and run 30 hp on their DRR 90, not gonna happen.

10-4 QuadFather ;) . My apologies on that mis information. It came from sites that other 2stroke builders were saying they were getting hp wise from 2fastkits. I was refered to those sites by another 2stroke parent. So power wise that puts us in the ballpark as the drr's/apex's.

As for my comment, "A bunch of crybaby overbearing parents". I stated no names. If you were offended by it then the shoe fits ;) . I've seen where parents are about to fight after a race because their upset their kids got beat. All along, the kids are playing together running around. I've met some good people in this sport but at the same time I've seen the negatives it brings out of those that want their kids to win at any cost. When we 1st started racing mod class at DC Jam was almost getting lapped. Now that gap has closed a bit because he has gotten better. I'm sure if he ever wins we'll more than likely get protested. I could care less if Jam ever wins a race as long as he is having fun, rides to HIS potential, and 1st and foremost stays safe. That's all I care about.

[mini racer #39]

I love the forum. Takes my mind off of REAL life. It makes me happy and makes me sad. I am NOT thin skinned so seldom does this forum make me mad BUT to answer someones question...It's easy to be nasty from behind your computer...some find it harder to do face to face. The shoe DOES fit in my case. When were at the track local or National I give my son everything I can possibly give him...gear, maintenance, power and in return he gives me 110% in every class he rides. So if that makes me OVERBEARING I most certainly am. As far as CRYBABY? I don't know about that one. My son is one of the top National riders...All I want is for him to have a fair and equal chance at the track. For all the other DRAMA I'm done. So call me what you want from BEHIND your computer...My name is Jerry Havert and I am NOT hard to find at the tracks.Thanks for reading my rant...
Jerry Havert

[Ride1Rob]

Well Jerry YOU and YOU alone put yourself in that catgory brother. Are you familiar with the definition of overbearing? (1.Overly convinced of one's own superiority and importance: arrogant, haughty, high-and-mighty, insolent, lofty, lordly, etc...) I don't see where putting your kid on the best equipment fits in that definition. Confused on that one... There's nothing wrong with putting your kid on the best equipment and making sure they have the best product to help him/her win.

What I'm refering to are the parents arguing/swearing at each other and having shout matches across the parking area after the race is over. Where a boy gets dq'd from a race because a parent protested that he didn't have a rear foot brake. You should have seen the look on this kids face when he couldn't race the 2nd moto. It's sad and this is where the word "Cry Baby" comes into play. I've also seen parents yelling at their kids because they weren't winning or riding up to that parents standards. I think it's safe to say that most parents feel this is the biggie that is what's wrong with what goes on on race day. If you as a parent can feel good about yourself by protesting someone else's kid because they're on a 70 and you're riding a 90 you really should look at yourself in the mirror.... shouldn't be very happy with the image it's reflecting. And I'd have NO problem telling this to ANY parent that fits in this category face to face ;) .

[Logan #34's Dad]

In case you all don't know it, this is why ALL the race promotors, track owners, race officials absolutely hate mini parents. AND it is exactally the same for the dirt bikes too. The problem is we all want it to be fair for our little rider and justifiably so.
As for dads yelling at their sons: I have been one of those dads, most recently in Pell City. Logan went out in the second practice and rode the whole practice standing up and following other slower riders. Now, I know what to expect from my son/rider. He is better than that. When he got back to the pits I chewed his butt. He understood, we then hung out like buddies. (Don't stay negative) He then went out the next practice and took over 7 seconds off his lap times. I know how to reach my son. The last thing i'm gonna do is tell him good job when it was not a good job. The new world of "time-outs" does not work. We all got our butts beat and were told no alot and we turned out okay (well most of us). I deal with Juveniles on a daily basis and trust me this generation as a whole is in trouble. If they get told NO - they don't know how to deal with it. The real world will be overwhelming and brutal for them and already is for the beginning of this generation.
Sorry for my "fix the world" rant.
The rule was put in place before the drop of the gate for the season so LETS RACE!

[thequadfather+2]

Hey Rob I wasnt trying to be rude or anything. I have seen those numbers thrown out there by manufacturers but it's more of a marketing deal than anything else. Thats about half of what the big worked up 450's are pumping out some of them are getting 60 hp. A big 450 Kawi with nothing but a power commander and pipe is only putting down 44hp.


Rocky I dont see anything wrong with what you said. It's just like any other sport, unless you are teaching them to give 100% you havent taught them anything. I dont care where ours finish as long as both boys give it 100%. It's not about ability, it's about effort.

[Ride1Rob]

Not what I was refering to LogansDad. My Father chewed my butt when he thought I didn't perform well in Athletics. I pull Jam to the side and give him a good talking just as you do. I explain to him what he's doing wrong and what he needs to do to get faster/better. And that's what my dad did with me. My father never embarrased me and I'll never embarras my son. I have NEVER yelled at him while he's riding or when he comes off the track and start embarrasing him with curse words and such... I've been around mini racing for alil over a year and I've seen it. I'm sure some of you old vets that have been there longer have seen it on many occasions. This is not just MX bud... it's Peewee Football, Baseball, Basketball, etc...


Originally posted by thequadfather+2
Hey Rob I wasnt trying to be rude or anything. I have seen those numbers thrown out there by manufacturers but it's more of a marketing deal than anything else. Thats about half of what the big worked up 450's are pumping out some of them are getting 60 hp. A big 450 Kawi with nothing but a power commander and pipe is only putting down 44hp.


I didn't take it as being rude Mr. QuadFather You taught me something... Nothing wrong with that brother :D . Thanx!

[greenmachine70]

I did a search for 2fast horsepower and found this site. These guys are quoting sites that did testing on the 2fast and another very nicely crafted kit like it, the TCR Kit.
Unfortunately I cant figure out how to change the italian script on the websites to verify what these guys are saying, but there are references of these kits making 23+hp.
Maybe it is easier to bump up dyno readings on 1 wheel instead of 2. Not sure and maybe these guys are just lying about it ya never know.
And for those who have never seen one of these kits, you can see them being made by cnc machines on one of these italian sites, very nice product.
Notice the huge port with windows......the angles .....man that is nice.....

http://forum.scooterforum.net/forum/f95/cristofolini-minarelli-80cc-kit-135858/

[fastrnrik]

Them are some serious scooter racers! LOL

Steve, you should buy one of each and let us know which is best.

[greenmachine70]

Where do you think all the technology comes from for our fastest motors?
The best builds are getting info from these places overseas. That is why there is an issue with these classes being put together, because there is a lot more tech out there for 70 motors at this time. Look at Cales 70, with the right rider he beats half the 100's at Bartow.
Go to scooter attack.com and try to decipher some of it. They do a lot of testing with this stuff. There is a scooter with the TCR kit that is doing 7 sec 1/8 mile runs. That is crazy, my friend on a GSXR750 did a 7sec 1/8 mile once.
Trust me these italians know their scooter engines, which is what all our kids are riding...
Brady,
When you loan me the money I will get one of each of those kits and new quads to build and put Colby and Ryland in mod class..Sponsored by Windsor Motorsports........lol

[CRBOGGAN]

I didn't take it as being rude Mr. QuadFather .

I love it Ride1rob you put the Mr. Quadfater on this will have to pick on Bruce to have him change his user name.

[raidernut]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by greenmachine70
[B]Where do you think all the technology comes from for our fastest motors?
The best builds are getting info from these places overseas. That is why there is an issue with these classes being put together, because there is a lot more tech out there for 70 motors at this time. Look at Cales 70, with the right rider he beats half the 100's at Bartow.
Go to scooter attack.com and try to decipher some of it. They do a lot of testing with this stuff. There is a scooter with the TCR kit that is doing 7 sec 1/8 mile runs. That is crazy, my friend on a GSXR750 did a 7sec 1/8 mile once.
Trust me these italians know their scooter engines, which is what all our kids are riding

While it is true the technology over seas is far beyond what we have in the states, most of it is based on running like you said for 7 seconds. A lot of the cylinder kits have an extremely narrow power band, and sky high port timings. They are made for max hp, without regard to torque, as they are propeling very lightweight two wheeled scooters. Most but not all of the kits out there are useless in our world, and are not meant to power a 225 pound plus 4 wheeler for 20 minutes balls out in the dirt.:D

[greenmachine70]

I want one of these to run in the Mini Quad Mod class at Dade City, you guys think they would protest me its only 112cc?????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiIvG3OA7QQ

[greenmachine70]

Originally posted by raidernut
[QUOTE]Originally posted by greenmachine70
[B]Where do you think all the technology comes from for our fastest motors?
The best builds are getting info from these places overseas. That is why there is an issue with these classes being put together, because there is a lot more tech out there for 70 motors at this time. Look at Cales 70, with the right rider he beats half the 100's at Bartow.
Go to scooter attack.com and try to decipher some of it. They do a lot of testing with this stuff. There is a scooter with the TCR kit that is doing 7 sec 1/8 mile runs. That is crazy, my friend on a GSXR750 did a 7sec 1/8 mile once.
Trust me these italians know their scooter engines, which is what all our kids are riding

While it is true the technology over seas is far beyond what we have in the states, most of it is based on running like you said for 7 seconds. A lot of the cylinder kits have an extremely narrow power band, and sky high port timings. They are made for max hp, without regard to torque, as they are propeling very lightweight two wheeled scooters. Most but not all of the kits out there are useless in our world, and are not meant to power a 225 pound plus 4 wheeler for 20 minutes balls out in the dirt.:D
I have to believe they would be ok in our apps. I dont beleive these guys are rebuilding every week. As for the lightweight scooters, they are also propeling adults, not 50-60lb kids either.
The cristofolini is only 80cc

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by CRBOGGAN
I didn't take it as being rude Mr. QuadFather .

I love it Ride1rob you put the Mr. Quadfater on this will have to pick on Bruce to have him change his user name.

LOL, you called him QuadFater I had nothing to do with that :p . It's on now :devil:

[raidernut]

Originally posted by greenmachine70
I have to believe they would be ok in our apps. I dont beleive these guys are rebuilding every week. As for the lightweight scooters, they are also propeling adults, not 50-60lb kids either.
The cristofolini is only 80cc

It doesnt matter what they are propeling, they are doing it on asphalt, with two skinny low drag tires, for short distances. The powerbands are extremely narrow and racing MX would be tough to keep on pipe.
carefull what you spend your money on, been there done that and tested many of these european high end cylinders, trust me there not designed for this application. If you would like to try a TCR kit I can get you one and you can report back. They are only $1643 with free shipping!:)

[greenmachine70]

no need for all that. I wont waste that kind of money on a quad for a kid. In no time they will be ready for the big quads and then spend it on suspension.
Our little stock steel cylinders ported correctly are doing just fine:D
We wont be running any nats anyways, we have that level of competition in our back yard here at Dade City.
I was just lending credibility to the horsepower rating that was mentioned and told it wasnt possible.
However on this video, it looks like some locals built a mini quad with one and it seems to be running pretty quick.....jmho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVH2mn2xI30

[raidernut]

Originally posted by greenmachine70
no need for all that. I wont waste that kind of money on a quad for a kid. In no time they will be ready for the big quads and then spend it on suspension.
Our little stock steel cylinders ported correctly are doing just fine:D
We wont be running any nats anyways, we have that level of competition in our back yard here at Dade City.
I was just lending credibility to the horsepower rating that was mentioned and told it wasnt possible.

I hear Ya cant wait for the big bikes myself, already have one built and just waiting for a rider to grow:D I agree on spending the money on suspension too. As far as the horsepower ratings, yes those type cylinders truly do make those numbers. Problem is they have little torque, and the power comes on real high in the rpm band, and drops off almost as quickly as it comes on.

[CRBOGGAN]

Bad spelling got me in trouble again lol. I am the fat 1

[thequadfather+2]

"I was just lending credibility to the horsepower rating that was mentioned and told it wasnt possible"....straight out of the box and bolt it on the quad....It aint.

Like raidernut said,sure with no torque and a spike at 26hp, then when you look at it the average hp was 19....Plus anyone can throw numbers out there.

Manufacturers test;
Put it on an engine dyno (not chasis) port it, polish it, cut the head, jet it lean, cool the room down and dry it out (perfect conditions)....wow it spiked at 26hp right before it blew the rings. Now tell everyone it's possible to get 26+hp out of this kit.

Welcome to the real world where everyone gets the kit, dyno's it and even with a good pipe it lays down 16-18 hp at the rear wheels (where it counts). Now thats the same kit that was suppose to give you 26+....

There is a world of difference in their use of the kit and ours. I have been around drag racing since I was 13. I have raced everything under the sun and purchased everything from air filters to exhaust systems because someone (including manufacturers) said "it's capable" of this or that.

greenmachine, I did not say it wasnt possible for a 90cc motor to see that hp. I did say that you are not going to pull a Malossi or 2 fast kit out of the box, slap it on and see 30 hp on your DRR90...I will say that again, That aint gonna happen. Hetrick put one on the dyno and even with a good pipe and intake and a few RPM's to boot it put 15hp to the ground.

engine hp is useless. I had a 2001 Ford Lightning fully built with a KB blower and the works that turned 716 hp at the flywheel and 602 at the rear wheels. The 4R100 tranny had that much drivetrain loss. My point is useful hp, what do our quads put to the ground? Thats what Hetrick was giving us, real numbers.

There are some good engine builders out there and I am sure they have several secrets how to squeeze the hp out of these things and get it to the ground while keeping the torque respectable. I know there are a few pushing the envelope.

It's not my intent to argue with you but folks often come here looking for information and after reading this, run out and buy a Malossi or 2fast for their 90 and wonder why they arent seeing 26-30 hp like everyone else, when in reality 98% of everyone else isnt either.

[greenmachine70]

Calm down Mr. Quadfather;)
I revealed my sources of the information and it is a SCOOTER forum like I, who use the same style engines we do, which they do. If someone, as you are implying, reads my post and spends that kind of money then its on them.
They obviousley have more money than sense.

I dont take any forum as the gospel. I also cant find any of those dyno runs that drop to nothing either.
Search TCR Kit and 2fast kit on youtube and watch some of these videos and then see for yourself if you think this power could be transferred to a 220lb quad with a 60lb rider as compared to a 100lb scooter plus a 150lb adult rider. As for running lean, I see smoke which usually means they are jetted well or a little rich not lean.
One shows a 2fast outrunning a porsch 911 in the 1/8 and one shows a scooter doing a 6.2sec 1/8th
I think on short supercross style tracks these would rip.
We all know the 2fast kit is working in mod classes all over the country and dominating from what i see.

[thequadfather+2]

dont take it the wrong way, I am pretty laid back.

I just think the scooters on youtube and our quads are apples and oranges. If you dont think so I want to see a 2fast kit on a DRR out run a Porsche 911. There's alot more to that than just a 2fast kit. The scooter crowd is just like everyone else at any drag race. I cant count the times I said "all I've got are just a few nickle and dime bolt-ons.":D I bet Half of those guys are spraying and telling everyone "it's just a 2fast kit". I have been around those kind of people for many years and every other drag racer out there will tell you the same thing, there's more to it than they are telling.

I just dont think we are talking about the same things. you are talking about potential with scooters outrunning 911's and I am talking about the power that DRR's/Apex's are putting on the ground with a Malossi or 2fast right now.

No big deal I guess just food for thought.

[Ride1Rob]

But this was brought up by someone making the comment that we had some type of advantage because we're running a 150cc bike against 90's. In all actuality the motor we're running is probably the weakest in terms of hp on the gate. So again, can someone explain to me where our advantage is? Maybe 1lapdown can answer it...? The class is UNLIMITED and as long as someone's not running some type of JB modded mini they can pick whatever poison they like and build it as high cc's as they'd like and race it.

[dblacks]

You are right, People become KEYBOARD JOCKEYS when they don't have to say smething to someones face, LOL



Originally posted by mini racer #39
I love the forum. Takes my mind off of REAL life. It makes me happy and makes me sad. I am NOT thin skinned so seldom does this forum make me mad BUT to answer someones question...It's easy to be nasty from behind your computer...some find it harder to do face to face. The shoe DOES fit in my case. When were at the track local or National I give my son everything I can possibly give him...gear, maintenance, power and in return he gives me 110% in every class he rides. So if that makes me OVERBEARING I most certainly am. As far as CRYBABY? I don't know about that one. My son is one of the top National riders...All I want is for him to have a fair and equal chance at the track. For all the other DRAMA I'm done. So call me what you want from BEHIND your computer...My name is Jerry Havert and I am NOT hard to find at the tracks.Thanks for reading my rant...
Jerry Havert

[dblacks]

scooters have totally different gear ratio's and no chain to loose power thru, they put more HP to the rear wheel then a quad does.

Crank HP and rear Wheel HP are 2 different things


Boy did this topic get way off topic,

OKAY, OKAY, I finally will admit it I got them to change the rule just so I could see all the parents that take their kids to the nationals start bickering like preteen girls.......:D

[thequadfather+2]

this can just be the catch all thread, you got a gripe lets hear it.

As far as Keyboard jockeys, I thought thats what a forum was for. Never seen one where prople didnt gripe, call names, brag, lie and make false claims and otherwise speak your mind. Who wants to hear this crap at the race? Thats when it's time take care of business.

Also this place can be quiet useful for information i guess:D

[MAXRPM]

To shed some light on this controversy of can it be done on quads etc. let me enlighten you guys on something. The head engineer, designer and race manager from Stage 6 in Germany was at my office yesterday. They and Massimo designer of 2fast work closely together and are on some of the, if not the fastest scooters in the world. They rode Jessie Voiles and Logan Dusenbery’s quad yesterday both with a 2fast power plant and were very impressed with the power and had to have one to make a drag quad with. When I asked what he thought in comparison to their 30hp scooters, he said it’s hard to explain but these blow our scooters away on torque and take off. Our scooters start to kick in about the time these are tapering off. Quote “I am amazed the clutches hook up like this”. So to answer some of the questions out there as can it be done, yes it can be done, but at the crank not rear wheel and it would not be any good on the quad in my opinion based on their input.

[thequadfather+2]

Awesome work, thanks for sharing that with us. BTW; how do you get those guys to come by the shop? I'm gonna send them an invite:D

[MAXRPM]

It's the common phrase of it's not what you know it's who you know...................:)

[Reimer Racing]

Originally posted by MAXRPM
It's the common phrase of it's not what you know it's who you know...................:)

Sometimes it comes from the little guys. ;) :p

[mushinracing]

so when can we get the new stage 6 stuff

[MAXRPM]

Still not available, couple more weeks.

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by thequadfather+2
this can just be the catch all thread, you got a gripe lets hear it.

As far as Keyboard jockeys, I thought thats what a forum was for. Never seen one where prople didnt gripe, call names, brag, lie and make false claims and otherwise speak your mind. Who wants to hear this crap at the race? Thats when it's time take care of business.

Also this place can be quiet useful for information i guess:D

+2

[marsrace2]

Those guys come by his shop because Max RPM Is BIG TIME!!!

Originally posted by Reimer Racing
Sometimes it comes from the little guys. ;) :p


Well all I can say is this guy is full of knowledge. Big guy lil guy what ever but he must have one big brain to record all the impressing knowledge he has. Thanks for all your help Justin!!!! On the track you show your knowledge along with the top riders in the AMA/ATVA nationals. :eek2: :eek2: ;) ;) :huh :huh :huh

[L&L'sdad96]

LOL nothing against Mr.Justin but :D :D :D :D :D Toby likes to earn that sponsor some how LOL LOL

[L&L'sdad96]

OH JMO !!!!!!!!!!!!

HEE HEE Curtis. We will see you June 5th. Coleton can not wait to hit the line. Thanks for sponsoring COLETON Justin. As our signatures says all Cole needs to show people. You have a great night there lil buddy!!! See ya soon!!!!!!

[Reimer Racing]

Originally posted by tgcheeseman
Well all I can say is this guy is full of knowledge. Big guy lil guy what ever but he must have one big brain to record all the impressing knowledge he has. Thanks for all your help Justin!!!! On the track you show your knowledge along with the top riders in the AMA/ATVA nationals. :eek2: :eek2: ;) ;) :huh :huh :huh

Toby meant no harm. Inside joke between Justin and I.

[robb]

So when we come out to ATVA national , we can now race more than just one class with our 70cc cvt quad ? Pretty sweet deal to travel that far and be able to race more than just one class . Especially with the economy not so hot sounds like you will get more chances to race , and thats a great thing for the kids because that's what it is all about.

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by robb
So when we come out to ATVA national , we can now race more than just one class with our 70cc cvt quad ? Pretty sweet deal to travel that far and be able to race more than just one class . Especially with the economy not so hot sounds like you will get more chances to race , and thats a great thing for the kids because that's what it is all about.

:muscle:

[bignasty]

enjoy all the post on this thread. It is nice to be able to race two or three classes. Where we run we're lucky if one or two classes a weekend. Not worth the time to travel locally in that case. Thats kinda why we go out west and play with raidernut and friends..:) :) :) ;) ;) ;) :) :) :)

[camsdad]

well guys i definitely dont have a dog in this fight but i guess beings everyone else is giving their opinion i will too....someone said earlier let 70 cvt,ss,shifter run together....well we tried that yr one of the 70 class,i thought it worked pretty well 1st place david beer cobra(shifter)2nd place davey nevrotsky(sslem)3rd place cam
covil(single a-arm air cooled kasea cvt70)
now if anyone had a complaint with the class it should have been us,look in the archives if the cobras alone wouldn't have been allowed in the class at the last minute we would have won the championship(cobras placing between cam and davey a few rounds made up the difference from 2nd to 3rd.....we enjoyed the great racing and learned alot that yr.


ill bet the the kids on the 70s in the 90 class would have finished as well or better on a 90 cc engine.

robb i will have to defend the remark about the rear foot brake,i made that call not to let that particular kid race .because the race day before he ran into the back of the rider, whose parent pointed out the no brake issue...simple safety issue and i couldnt allow it.what if i had allowed it and a rider down on the track got ran over because of this?i would have been WRONG...the thing that made it more of an issue,it wasnt that the rear brake was inoperable(i would of had the gate held while we bled the brake)the was no rear brakes what so ever(completely removed).sorry if i upset anyone with that call but wouldnt hesitate making the same call again..

i know emotions get out of hand but amatuer racing is supposed to be fun,a trip to the er for a bad judgement call is plain unnecessary.

on a final note rich and michele are stand up,top notch people and would never do anything to hurt the sport,richs intentions and ideas are well thoughtout and very intelligent.thank you rich for what you do and have done for the sport.thank god we dont race minis anymore....everyone race smart,hug your kid and remember its for fun.......tracy covil proud dad of cam covil

[Logan #34's Dad]

Hello Tracy. I'm the one who bought your engine along with Miller from Ohio years ago. Just so you know, We are STILL running the same overrange rear pulley!

[Yuk33]

As mentioned earlier, run them all together is just what we did this weekend.
We ran a Cobra 70 shifter against a 90 apex (iron head), a DRR 86cc 2 fast cylinder from Hot Quads, Cobra Metrakit cc unknown (said was a 90 prototype) and a CR 85 Mod in the 90 mod class. All National TT riders, CR 85 took the line as well as the race. #21 with the 2 fast motor was fast and could ride as well.
We just need seat time.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Originally posted by Yuk33
As mentioned earlier, run them all together is just what we did this weekend.
We ran a Cobra 70 shifter against a 90 apex (iron head), a DRR 86cc 2 fast cylinder from Hot Quads, Cobra Metrakit cc unknown (said was a 90 prototype) and a CR 85 Mod in the 90 mod class. All National TT riders, CR 85 took the line as well as the race. #21 with the 2 fast motor was fast and could ride as well.
We just need seat time.

Unlike TT, we have enough riders to fill the gate for most classes so we can have multiple classes. If the ATVA combined all 3 70 classes then about 50 kids would be going home on Saturday. That would not be good for business. This issue here is: the exact same quad vs each other with one being lower cc's. Don't get me wrong, I'd run the other 70 classes but we are only allowed to race 3 classes per event.

[camsdad]

i agree 100% with you rocky,my point was no matter what you do there is going to be a handful of people who arent satisfied with the decision...mr ward why do you have such a beef with this?if im not mistaken you are the same dad that signed your 70 mod up to run a 200cc class and was very upset when you werent allowed to take a gate,your defense was you wanted seat time,maybe these other parents want seat time for their riders as well,only difference is you had a class available to accomodate you there but dont want the 70cvt riders at the nationals to have a 2nd class to run?

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by camsdad
well guys i definitely dont have a dog in this fight but i guess beings everyone else is giving their opinion i will too....someone said earlier let 70 cvt,ss,shifter run together....well we tried that yr one of the 70 class,i thought it worked pretty well 1st place david beer cobra(shifter)2nd place davey nevrotsky(sslem)3rd place cam
covil(single a-arm air cooled kasea cvt70)
now if anyone had a complaint with the class it should have been us,look in the archives if the cobras alone wouldn't have been allowed in the class at the last minute we would have won the championship(cobras placing between cam and davey a few rounds made up the difference from 2nd to 3rd.....we enjoyed the great racing and learned alot that yr.


ill bet the the kids on the 70s in the 90 class would have finished as well or better on a 90 cc engine.

robb i will have to defend the remark about the rear foot brake,i made that call not to let that particular kid race .because the race day before he ran into the back of the rider, whose parent pointed out the no brake issue...simple safety issue and i couldnt allow it.what if i had allowed it and a rider down on the track got ran over because of this?i would have been WRONG...the thing that made it more of an issue,it wasnt that the rear brake was inoperable(i would of had the gate held while we bled the brake)the was no rear brakes what so ever(completely removed).sorry if i upset anyone with that call but wouldnt hesitate making the same call again..

i know emotions get out of hand but amatuer racing is supposed to be fun,a trip to the er for a bad judgement call is plain unnecessary.

on a final note rich and michele are stand up,top notch people and would never do anything to hurt the sport,richs intentions and ideas are well thoughtout and very intelligent.thank you rich for what you do and have done for the sport.thank god we dont race minis anymore....everyone race smart,hug your kid and remember its for fun.......tracy covil proud dad of cam covil

That makes total sense to me Tracy. I had no idea what had taken place on the track with the footbreak. I asked the kids parent why he wasn't getting ready to race and that was the story that I was told. Safety should be 1st over anything else. Lesson learned ;) .

I'm meeting some very good people every race at DC. But I'm also hearing and seeing horror stories of how the competition amongst people that are supposed to be friends in the pit areas becoming enemies. A parent told me the other nite if it's one thing he's learned it's not to trust anyone. He was blindsided with a protest with people they parked right next to every race and thought they were pretty good friends.

[camsdad]

99% of protest are against people who have befriended each other,i can speak for myself ,if anyone has ever had an issue with something i own just ask i will loan you the wrenches to check it
.there is an old saying...winners NEVER cheat,cheaters NEVER win...
i think our new track surface should help jam,should level the field a little bit.he's not that far off he has improved a ton and if i have anything to do with it you will never be dqed for winning .you are inside the rules as far as i can see and i wouldnt mind seeing jam win a few...

[Ride1Rob]

That's great to hear Tracy... You don't know how many times I've heard, "If he ever wins they'll bump him to Quad Youth. Honestly, I don't worry because skill wise he has to grow before he gets that win. And if it did happen I thank you guys for giving us the opportunity to race DC. Kirkland is a BEAST and Alexuss, Corey, are very quick as well. We're in this for the long haul as Jam made the statement to me, "This is my career" lol. DC is our new home as long as you guys will coninue to have us ;) .