not another engine ticking question, please read!

[unitednations]

So, after a million and a half posts about the 400ex engine tick. The should it tick and how bad posts. I know we all have gotten sick of them.

Instead of should it tick, because no one can give a good answer, I wanna know how many of your 400ex's have a ticking noise, and how loud. Did aftermarket cams make it worse? Can you hear it over your pipe on slow speeds?

Maybe we can shed some light on the 400ex "ticking"

[3or4HONDA]

Yes the cam made mine worse, Yes i can hear it over my HMF especially once it is hot and Yes i check my clearances regularly. my CRF cam chain is new and the tensioner isworking properly.

ive just learned to accept it

[unitednations]

off my own topic but anyone know where i can get pre bent feeler gauges that work well with the 400ex.

[unitednations]

only one player so far :ermm:

[aDviSol2y]

Yes mine ticks, also can hear it over my BigGun full setup. Cam made it louder and its worse when its warm. Valves are fine, I have also just learned to except it.

[400exryder01]

As far as finding pre bent feeler gauges...I just went to my local Sears store and found them. They work great!

[HPI_Savage25]

My engine is all stock and have noticed a ticking sound also. Changed oil and valves readjusted, figure just to let it go...

[storms400ex]

i took out my decompression stuff off the cam and its the quietest its ever been, very happy now no noise

[-TheDude-]

everyones 400ex ticks

[big_poppa49]

Mine has ticked ever since I bought it new back in 01'. I have had it serviced many times, and still does it. Mostly when really warm. I can hear it over my Yoshimura slip on. Also had valves adjusted.

I, too, have just learned to accept it. I dont think its anything to worry about.

As for valve adjustment, I heard you only should have to adjust them when it starts getting hard to crank

[hocman123]

i got my 400 about 3 mounths ago it has been ticking really loud i and going to check my valves and replace the stock muffler that the po gutted and hope it goes down a bit

[clemsonteg]

Mine ticks, I can hear it over the exhaust at idle and slow speed, and I ordered a motion pro feeler gauge from RMATV, cost $5 and it has .004 on one side and .005 on the other.

[01 400EXer]

Mine ticks, it always has (since 2001) and always will. My buddy has a stage 2 hot cam and his is a lot louder than mine. It is the trait of the 400EXes.

[dubee]

I got an 07 400 and when i got it, it ticked, and i bought it used so it worried me for a long time so i started readin about it and i found that, if you have stock cam and rocker arms you can GRIND off one of the ears on the rocker arm that the decompressor hits, i did this and now mine is so quiet compared to my friends is crazy!!

Just make sure you dont grind into the arms where the lobe of the cam hits the arms only the extra lip on one arm is all you need to do and you will see where the lobe hits so there is a line you can go by already, you will see it clearer once you take it off if you never have had your cover off yet.

Mine was a loud tick could for sure hear it whith stock pipe on!!
with my HMF or Cobra mybe at idle i would hear it, once i did this thou i will only get a small quiet tick only when i have been ridin hard for a few hours.

[autox4fun]

Updated to a hotcam 2 and did the crf timing chain and new tensioner at the same time.
Noted however when setting the timing that the crank orbits on the timing side. Causing wear in the bushing/seal in the cover (oil filter side.

Has anyone every had this issue prior? it's causing slack then tension on the timing chain.. which I'm sure is causing a weird rotation of the valvetrain.

I have not opened the case any further, but I'll likely upgrade to a new crank, possible move to a stroker while apart.

Just wanted to see if other have had this issue??

Randy

[nick81]

mine ticked untill the timing chain tensioner went out since ive replaced the tensioner and timing chain its ran quite

[b.lee]

Originally posted by storms400ex
i took out my decompression stuff off the cam and its the quietest its ever been, very happy now no noise

Anyone have more info on how to do this?

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by b.lee
Anyone have more info on how to do this?

First you need to remove the cam from the engine. Next remove the small plunger and spring from the head (it's in a small hole right under the cam sprocket in the head itself). You will not be reusing the plunger and spring.

Next you need to take the cam to a machine shop, or somewhere where someone knows how to operate a hydraulic press. The cam sprocket flange needs to be pressed off the end of the cam. Once the sprocket flange is off, the auto decompression junk slides right off the cam. After those pieces are removed from the cam you need to press the sprocket flange back on.

At this point you will see 2 holes in the cam where the auto decomp stuff used to sit. These holes are to provide oil for the decomp mechanism. You need to weld these 2 holes shut. If you do not, oil will follow the path of least resistance and dump out of holes before it reaches the rest of the holes in the cam. In other words it's possible starve the cam of oil. I took mine to a local welder who TIG welded them shut. It's important to keep the heat down and TIG welding does that well.

Once that is done, reinstall the cam and that's it. Your valvetrain should now be a lot quieter. Hope that helps ya!

Here's some pics to help you:

Cam with auto decompression still installed
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu289/nacsmxer/Rebuild/DSC_0626.jpg

Cam after auto decompression mechanism removed and sprocket flange pressed back on
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu289/nacsmxer/Rebuild/DSC_0649.jpg

2 oil holes after being welded up (there's one shallow one on the left and one deep one on the right)
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu289/nacsmxer/Rebuild/DSC_0650.jpg
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu289/nacsmxer/Rebuild/DSC_0670.jpg

[TRXRacer1]

My holes are not welded and everything is fine. ;)

[Muzzgit]

Mine used to tick a little, but after coming back from the workshop with engine re-build and stage 2 HotCam it ticks like a *******.

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
My holes are not welded and everything is fine. ;)

That may be so, but i'd be willing to bet that you are not getting the best possible oiling of the cam by having the holes exposed. Oil is pumped through the cam on the cam sprocket side and comes out through the small holes in the journals/lobes (i'm sure you already know this). So if you have 2 open holes right before all the others, you are loosing some oil pressure there. The extent to which the efficiency of the oiling is affected is up for question but I guarantee that there is a difference. I'd be wanting to get all the oil I can get through the cam possible.

Welding up the holes is simply a precaution.

[TRXRacer1]

All good advice and what you've explained would be the preferred method. You've done a solid write up.

[b.lee]

I'm glad I checked back in,
Thanks for the write up NacsMXer.

[honda400ex2003]

Originally posted by unitednations
off my own topic but anyone know where i can get pre bent feeler gauges that work well with the 400ex.

here they are. you would need the .005 and the .006 ones but they are supposed to work pretty good. i didnt see the link anywhere so here it is
http://www.magicracing.com/Motion-Pro-Tappet-Feeler-Gauges_p_4124.html

My 400 ticks loud with either the stage 2 or the stage 1. imo the 2 is louder than the 1 and once it is warmed up ticks louder than cold also. they are always adjusted properly and I check them at least once a year no matter what but usually if i have the tank off i check them since it is right there. very good write up also! steve

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
All good advice and what you've explained would be the preferred method. You've done a solid write up.

Thanks man. And I hope I didn't sound like I was calling you out or anything because I wasn't :p I was just explaining my reasoning behind it which is just a theory. You're not the first person i've heard of that didn't plug up the holes and their motor is ok. A lot of the XR400 guys over at Thumpertalk actually machine up a sleeve to fit over the holes but I think that's a little overkill. Welding is much easier.


Originally posted by b.lee
I'm glad I checked back in,
Thanks for the write up NacsMXer.

Glad to help! ;)

[MtnEX]

The valvetrain is a little ticky... which I think anyone can live with and understand is OK.

The decompression stuff and the cam chain are the things that make the tap/rattle/knock noises.

That stuff is to the point of sounding scary to me. But mine has ran like a freight train with the scary noise for almost 2 years now.

It comes and goes... I hear it, then don't.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by NacsMXer
Thanks man. And I hope I didn't sound like I was calling you out Nah, no worries. To be honest the bike came with the cam already gutted and I noticed the holes were not plugged this winter when I had it apart for valve and cam chain replacement. Left it the way it was because everything looked really good. If I ever get in there again before future mods I'll have to hit it with the welder.

[sc400ex_rider]

My stg 2 ticked bad for breakin but after the phosphate coating wore off i went back to factory lash specs. you can also mod the top motor mount bolt hole's to line up better. forcing the bolt through can flex the valve cover and throw off your lash.

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
Nah, no worries. To be honest the bike came with the cam already gutted and I noticed the holes were not plugged this winter when I had it apart for valve and cam chain replacement. Left it the way it was because everything looked really good. If I ever get in there again before future mods I'll have to hit it with the welder.

Gotcha, good thing the cam is so easy to get to. Maybe open it up next time you do a valve adjustment. Not many extra steps after that point.


Originally posted by sc400ex_rider
My stg 2 ticked bad for breakin but after the phosphate coating wore off i went back to factory lash specs. you can also mod the top motor mount bolt hole's to line up better. forcing the bolt through can flex the valve cover and throw off your lash.

Can you actually do that with a Hotcam? Did you happen to ask them about it? I just broke in my new Stage 3 yesterday and it's pretty ticky but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. It actually had a little louder metallic tap with the old HRC cam and auto decompressor still installed.

I wonder why they call for .001" more than stock to begin with, what's the difference? I was also a little bummed because I just bought a nice Motion Pro tappet feeler guage, but it's for the stock .004/.005 spec, so I can only use it on the intake side now lol :ermm:

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by NacsMXer
Gotcha, good thing the cam is so easy to get to. Maybe open it up next time you do a valve adjustment. Not many extra steps after that point.



Can you actually do that with a Hotcam? Did you happen to ask them about it? I just broke in my new Stage 3 yesterday and it's pretty ticky but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I've noticed they call for those specs for a ton of machines. I've used stock lash on a HC with great results.

Gotta know, what do you think of the stg 3? Seriously thinking about that for my XR4 when I do the JE 88.5. Figure the lighter bike might not notice any bottom flatness but does the stg 3 dog on the bottom any more then stock?

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
I've noticed they call for those specs for a ton of machines. I've used stock lash on a HC with great results.

Gotta know, what do you think of the stg 3? Seriously thinking about that for my XR4 when I do the JE 88.5. Figure the lighter bike might not notice any bottom flatness but does the stg 3 dog on the bottom any more then stock?

Hmm I may contact Hotcams about that, it sounds tempting but I don't want to mess something up. Does it make a noticeable difference in the ticking when you go back to stock lash?

I'll keep you posted on the stage 3. All I got to do yesterday was do a light break in ride for 30 minutes before it started raining. I was going to ride it again today, but it's pouring again here :mad: It did feel pretty torquey and strong down low though. I was expecting to feel a little less low end compared to the HRC cam I had in it, but I didn't notice much difference. I'll see how it performs next time out when I really get on it :macho

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by NacsMXer
Hmm I may contact Hotcams about that, it sounds tempting but I don't want to mess something up. Does it make a noticeable difference in the ticking when you go back to stock lash?

I'll keep you posted on the stage 3. All I got to do yesterday was do a light break in ride for 30 minutes before it started raining. I was going to ride it again today, but it's pouring again here :mad: It did feel pretty torquey and strong down low though. I was expecting to feel a little less low end compared to the HRC cam I had in it, but I didn't notice much difference. I'll see how it performs next time out when I really get on it :macho I look forward to the update once you get some more ride time in. Makes sense that it wouldn't hurt the low too bad. All 3 stages don't look that radical on paper.

As to the noise I'd say I could tell a definite difference. No change in power from their specs to Honda's.

[NacsMXer]

Yep, and I even asked all the people on here that have the stage 3 about the low end power loss before I bought it. They all said the same thing, that the bottom wasn't hurt bad at all, but there was a huge mid to top end boost. And you're totally right, even though the stage 3 is the most radical cam Hotcams offers for the 400, it's still very tame compared to the other "high lift" cams out there like the Webcam 463/9i and Megacycle cams. I'm hoping that it will be a nice compromise over the stage 2 that I sometimes hear disappointment over. Everyone i've heard of with the stage 3 has been happy with it.

That's great you could tell a difference going back to stock lash. In fact I just got done emailing back and forth with Chad from Hotcams about it. Here's his exact words:

" Valve specs. ours are a little loser to allow for easier starts, if they are loud you can tighten them closer to stock."

"You will be fine using that (.004"/.005") , just go with stock after the next ride! I didn’t look at the stock lash. Sorry. You will be fine going to stock after the next ride"



Heck ya! Now I can go back to using my handy dandy Motion Pro tappet feeler gauge in .004/.005. If you don't have one it makes valve adjustments a lot easier for just $5. Thanks again TRXRacer1 :macho

[TRXRacer1]

Hey no prob man, hope you get the same results I did. I see you and I live close, maybe next time I hit Cliffs or Rocky I'll let you know. Usually have a fun little group and we do the whole cook-out bbq for lunch thing too.