Skat~Trak Haulers

[bkelley]

I'm getting kinda tired of my Sand Geckos. They do fine for the sandy trails and small hills, but they don't have the greatest hook-up and it takes a lot of effort to get up the bigger hills. I'm running the size 21x11x10 with 8 blades right now. I was wondering what the best size Haulers would be.

My options are:

20x10x10 - 7, 8, 9 or 10 blades
22x11x10 - 7, 8 or 10 blades

I was thinking about 20x10x10 with 8 blades, but I wasn't sure if that'd be too small with a 13t front sprocket. So, maybe going with 9 blades, or even to a 22x11x10 with 7 or 8 blades?

[burnthesnikle]

i ran 20x10x8 8 blade haulers....

it's all you need...9 and 10 blade are to much...and extremes

you can run a 10 rim as well...just that 8s less likely to come off bead if you ride hard...handle little better too...


also not trying to piss anyone off but Sand Geckos suck ***...

[4reeds]

I run a 21x12x8 7pdl on my 450r. Pulls alot harder then my 20x11x9 8pdls. For a 400,try 20x10x8 6 or 7 pdl.

[bkelley]

I don't want to spend another $100 or so on new wheels, so I'm just gonna stick with my 10" ones. And I honestly think a 20x10x10 7 blade would be too small for my setup, but I don't know. It might be a different case with the Haulers.

[burnthesnikle]

well...
when you run a 7 blade it will let your motor rev out a little more and you will have better use of power...which is good...now it depends on what you weight...but if you run a 9 or 10 blades it will bite hard and take power away making it take longer to get going...so i would go with a 7 or 8 blade...

i have also ram v-blades 8 blade...on my 400 with -2 swingarm and that works very well

and where do you buy rims??
i get them for 35 bucks a piece...blue label douglas...the only way to go nice and light...

[bkelley]

Well, I'm 6'5" 280lbs so there's that... I can get blue labels for about the same price, but I'd rather not if I don't have to. Money is hard to come by when you go to school full time and only work 15 hours a week.

[burnthesnikle]

yeah i'd run 7 blades...just haulers...

[atv fan 28]

Originally posted by burnthesnikle
yeah i'd run 7 blades...just haulers... X2^^^^^^

[bkelley]

Alright, 7 blades sounds good to me if it sounds good to you guys. They're the cheapest, too, haha.

[3or4HONDA]

thats what i had and loved them.

[RCWells]

Dont want to jack your thread kelley, but on the subject of wheel weights:

anybody know what the weight of the stock wheels are? how much does the douglas blue weigh?

[88dunerider]

im running 20x10x10 9 paddle haulers, they do great! i do have a 440 kit tho and a 13 tooth front sprok . it eats the **** out of stock 450s on the hill climbs . i suggest goin with 20x10x10 8 paddle , i can deff tell that mine bogs a little even with the 440

[bkelley]

So, that's three votes for 7 blades and one for 8 blades. I'm going to be getting into the motor here soon, so I don't want to grow out of these $200 paddles. I'm thinking the 8s would be more future proof for me.

[tayyo789]

it also depends on the type of sand you're riding in, and what kind of riding you're doing. short, steep hills in first or second gear, more paddles. if you're dragging up a long hill, less paddles. 7s or 8s would probably do you just fine. i have 8 paddle haulers on my 416 and they work very well, but thats in Oregon sand. In places like Little Sahara, i know people run less paddles for example. right now, you probably wouldnt notice much of a difference between the 7s and 8s.
definitely go with the 10 inch wheel though. it leaves the tire flatter where its in contact with the sand, as opposed to the 8 inch wheels, which round the tires. each have their advantages such as the 8 inch wheels dig deeper into the sand, and hook up a lot harder, but the 10s float better, and spin easier, keeping your rpms up on those longer hills.
so 7 or 8 paddle, 10 inch wheel

[bkelley]

And you're talking 20" tall, right?

[tayyo789]

yep. 22s will sort of cancel the effect of the front sprocket

[88dunerider]

20x10x10 8 paddle haulers is what you need , but also depends what sand you ride in like they said , i only ride oregon sand and do nothing but hill climbs thats why i got the 9 paddle, and if your goin to do future motor work id be safe and go with nothing less than 8 paddle , i had 7 and they sucked .

[bkelley]

Originally posted by tayyo789
yep. 22s will sort of cancel the effect of the front sprocket Yeah, just making sure. Thanks for the info. I'll be ordering some 20x10x10 8 blades here soon.

[tayyo789]

you'll love them compared to sand geckos.
im a full skat trak believer now lol

[bkelley]

Yeah, I've had the Geckos far too long. They were given to me so I can't really complain too much. Though, I see why they were given to me haha.

[smelly$cat]

Sounds like you have made your mind up, but, when I discussed this topic with the folks at Fullerton Sand Sports down in Fullerton CA (recommended by someone on this site), he suggested I go with a 6 blade since I had already decided I wanted the Extreme blade (rather than the standard hauler blade).

He said you should be running 1 less blade if you go with the Extreme blade.

So, Extreme 6 paddle would be equal to a Hauler 7 paddle, roughly.

I have a built 440 and a 6 paddle/Extreme blade set up and I love it. I forget the exact tire specs, but, I think it's 20*10*10.

I went riding down in Oregon this past weekend (Sand Lakes) and there was one situation where I was glad I was running a 6 paddle. I did a hill climb where you have to back down the hill/shoot. There was basically just a landing pad where you started out before you hit the face of the very steep dune. In this situation, you need to start in 2nd gear, rev out the engine and dump the clutch if you want to have a chance of getting out. If you can't get adequate wheelspin out of the hole to get your RPM's and momentum going, you won't make it out. If I would have had a 7 or 8 or 9 paddle, I honestly don't think I would have made it out of there as I think the engine would have bogged.

I do believe there is a "sweet spot" for paddle # for each set up. It is worse to have too many than not enough though.

My friend was on a YFZ that was just dyno'd at 49hp and he had 8 blade hauler paddles. He pulled out of that shoot easily.

My 440 is probably at ~43-45hp if I had to guess. I struggled to get out of that hill climb/shoot, but was successful.

Anyway, my 2 cents...

[bkelley]

I don't ever see myself being in a situation like you described at the dunes I ride. I do appreciate the info, though. I think 8 blades is my sweet spot, especially since I'm predicting to be in the 42HP range after doing my 426 kit. I'd hate to buy the 7 blades then after the 426 kit have them not be enough. I don't do any major hill climbs, anyways. Just looking for some better hookup than the Geckos.

[smelly$cat]

With 42 hp, I'd really suggest you consider the 7 blade at the most. Like I said, it's better to be on low blade count side.

Also, a 426 at 11:1 compression with a stage 2 cam might not hit 42 hp.

I have a 2nd 400ex that I ride in the woods that is a 426 with 12.5:1 compression with a STOCK cam that dyno'd at 38.5 hp. Open air box (k&n filter) with a DMC Alien FULL exhaust. I don't think a stage 2 cam would be good for another 4 hp, but, I might be wrong. It would be close I think. But even then, with 42 hp, I'd suggest a 7 blade at the most. 8 blade will have too much bite in certain conditions "I" think and you might not be happy.

Think of those gaps in between the blades as the engines chance to rev up in prep for the next scoop of sand.

So many opinions...... I know... :)

Good luck in whatever you choose!

[tayyo789]

Where do you do most of your dune riding? Sand Mountain?

[smelly$cat]

We usually go to "Sand Lake" ORV park right outside Tillamook OR since it's the shortest drive from us up in Seattle.


Originally posted by tayyo789
Where do you do most of your dune riding? Sand Mountain?

[bkelley]

A friend of mine had the exact setup I want along with a port and polish and he dyno'd at 42HP. The 450r carb and the ESR Airbox Eliminator kit is good for a modest 5-6 HP alone. That's what the dyno numbers said, anyways. My dad runs 8 blades on his 350X and can climb anything. I realize that is a different bike, but I know I'm putting out substancially more power than he is. I'm gonna do some more research before I make the order.

[tayyo789]

I should have specified my question. Bkelley where do you usually go?

[smelly$cat]

I can see all those mods adding up to 42hp.

Here's the link to Fullerton Sand Sports. Call them and chat. The guy there is cool and has obviously spent his life riding the dunes. He'll probably tell you what I'm saying, but, he might be able to give you some better justification. Also, you can get a price quote from him for comparison sake. Doesn't hurt.

http://fullertonsandsports.com/




Originally posted by bkelley
A friend of mine had the exact setup I want along with a port and polish and he dyno'd at 42HP. The 450r carb and the ESR Airbox Eliminator kit is good for a modest 5-6 HP alone. That's what the dyno numbers said, anyways. My dad runs 8 blades on his 350X and can climb anything. I realize that is a different bike, but I know I'm putting out substancially more power than he is. I'm gonna do some more research before I make the order.

[bkelley]

Rasor Dunes, Dumont, Sand Hollow, Armagosa, Glamis. All the southwest spots.

[bkelley]

Originally posted by smelly$cat
I can see all those mods adding up to 42hp.

Here's the link to Fullerton Sand Sports. Call them and chat. The guy there is cool and has obviously spent his life riding the dunes. He'll probably tell you what I'm saying, but, he might be able to give you some better justification. Also, you can get a price quote from him for comparison sake. Doesn't hurt.

http://fullertonsandsports.com/ Sweet, thanks. I'll check it out. I think it'll be hard for them to beat RMATV's price with a 10% coupon, but it won't hurt to try.

[tayyo789]

i would do the 8 paddle hauler.
especially with low gearing like yours. last time i was at glamis was my first time there with them and they performed wonderfully. i was able to hit 4th gear on oldsmobile hill and hold it all the way up.
some places with "lighter" sand, where your bike sinks more, and drags you down, lower paddle count will help but i think they will work fine.
the bottom line is that they all work well, but some work just a little bit better. situations like the back-down-a-razor-back hill dont really occur where you ride. you really cant go wrong unless you put like 14 paddles. i would actually call skat trak themselves. i have had very good experience with them and their services. as far as prices, rocky mountain will sell kits, with free shipping, but im not sure whats in LV

[bkelley]

So Dave over at Fullerton Sand Sports recommended a 20x10x10 6 paddle Extreme or 7 paddle Hauler, like smelly said. I think I may go for the Extremes since I am a bigger guy and could use the extra hook-up. He said he'd give me either tire for $107 shipped, which isn't bad at all. RMATV would be cheaper with the coupon code, but they don't carry the Extremes in 6 paddles.

[smelly$cat]

Glad to hear my memory is still working. I recall RMATV not having all the available combo's as well. Let us know what you decide to go with and how you like them!

[bkelley]

Yeah, good call on Fullerton. It's nice to order from some of the mom and pop type places every once-in-a-while. I think I'm gonna go with a pair of 20x10x10 6 paddle Extremes.

[smelly$cat]

That's what he sold me on :)

[bkelley]

Got any pictures?

[smelly$cat]

1

[smelly$cat]

2

[bkelley]

Nice, would love to ride out there, looks awesome. Bike looks good, too. I saw in the other thread you got the HIDs all setup.

So, I can get the 7 paddle Haulers for $188 from RMATV, or the 6 paddle Extremes from Fullerton for $234. Dave said the hook up would be the same with both tires, just that the Extremes would be more durable with the thicker blades. Since I've had my Geckos for 5 years, and they still look brand new, I don't think I need to worry about durability haha.

[smelly$cat]

Thanks man. Yeah, it's fun out there and the scenery is nice as well!

I agree with what he said. Might as well go with the 7 paddle haulers in your case.

[atv fan 28]

Originally posted by bkelley
So Dave over at Fullerton Sand Sports recommended a 20x10x10 6 paddle Extreme or 7 paddle Hauler, like smelly said. I think I may go for the Extremes since I am a bigger guy and could use the extra hook-up. He said he'd give me either tire for $107 shipped, which isn't bad at all. RMATV would be cheaper with the coupon code, but they don't carry the Extremes in 6 paddles. did Dave mention anything about using Padla Brats?

[bkelley]

He did not.

[smelly$cat]

He mentioned those to me. He said they are even more expensive, but they are the lightest option. They are light because they are thinned out so much that there isn't much rubber left on the main contact surface between the blades. This makes them light, but, on the downside, it makes punctures more of a possibility. He said for all out performance though, they are the best.

[atv fan 28]

i read if you get just the play groove you will be fine. the comp groove however is a different story. here is a thread about them. http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=48627

[bkelley]

Dave is telling me that 21x12x8 will outrun the 20x10x10s. Which makes sense since they will have a bigger footprint. I'm asking him for a total price on a set of 21x12x8 (Haulers or Brats) on some .125 wheels. I can get 21x12x8 Haulers mounted on some .125 Douglas' for about $260 from RMATV, but they would have 8 blades.

[smelly$cat]

If I'm reading this right, that seems like a taller tire with the max blades we have been talking about. Odd that he would suggest a 7 blade hauler at 20 inch, then be open to quoting you at 21 inch tire with 8 blades. I would think he would discourage you from doing this.

[bkelley]

No, that's the what I can get from Rocky Mountian ATV. He hasn't given me a quote for some 21x12x8s yet.

[tayyo789]

Originally posted by bkelley
21x12x8s

those will throw some sand

[bkelley]

If they aren't too expensive I might go for them. They should be about the same price as the 20x10x10s, though. I would just have to pick up a set of DWT .125s, too.

[tayyo789]

you have any front tires?

[bkelley]

Yeah, I've got some GBC Dune Trakkers. So I've found out that these Skat~Traks are pretty hard to get a hold of. I called them directly to get a price on the 21x12x8 Haulers, but they are back-ordered 5-6 weeks on them. The only ones RMATV have in stock are the 20x10x10 8 paddles. I did find some of the 21x12x8 7 paddle Haulers on eBay for $200, but I'm not sure if they are in stock or not. Waiting to hear back from the seller. Dave from Fullerton quoted me $276 for some "21x12x8 - 6 ext on DWT .125 wheels". I know what the DWTs are, but I have no idea what he meant by 6 ext. Maybe 6 paddle Extremes? If that's what he meant, and has them in stock, I'll probably do that. I'm going on a big dune trip on the 16th, so I need them here pretty quick. This is turning out to be a more difficult task than I first thought haha.

[bkelley]

Alright, done deal. 21x12x8 6 paddle Extremes from Fullerton. Mounted on wheels and shipped for $296. He said they'll be here tomorrow.

[smelly$cat]

Let us know how you like them :)

[bkelley]

Originally posted by smelly$cat
Let us know how you like them :) Will do. Still can't believe I just spent $300 on two tires haha. Should be a big upgrade from the Geckos.

[atv fan 28]

it will be 300$ well spent!

[bkelley]

Yeah, I know it will be. Will make the dune trips much more enjoyable for sure. Can't wait to try them out!

[smelly$cat]

They will also last a long time. And if you decide to switch quads someday, you can keep them and use them on your new one. If you don't do anything stupid with them, they should last for many years.

[bkelley]

Originally posted by smelly$cat
They will also last a long time. And if you decide to switch quads someday, you can keep them and use them on your new one. If you don't do anything stupid with them, they should last for many years. Well my Geckos are 5 years old and they still look brand new, so I should haven't a problem making these last forever haha. My dad still has his paddles that he bought in '86.

Also, made a new thread with pictures and stuff: http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=433528