04/05 crank bearing mod

[Pacheco_450r]

I've been looking all over the site trying to find exactly WHAT is the crank bearing mod for the 04/05 trx450r.

I have a 05 that has been running solid since the day I bought it, I just had my top end rebuilt; timing chain, valves, piston etc, everything looked great nothing abnormal at all, but I wanted to do some preventative maintenance before this race season. Now that I put in the cash for a new top end, the last thing I want is for my crank bearing to go out and all that money goes down the drain!

Just wondering If someone can tell me exactly what the crank bearing mod is and what I need to do/get for the mod.

[eastside 400]

there is no mod... there is an updated crankshaft and bearing set that comes with an extra collar you press onto the crank. All OEM cranks sold are this updated version, along with hotrods too i believe

[Pacheco_450r]

great thanks for the info!

[400cc]

Originally posted by eastside 400
there is no mod... there is an updated crankshaft and bearing set that comes with an extra collar you press onto the crank. All OEM cranks sold are this updated version, along with hotrods too i believe

how did they fix the issue of the bad crank/crank bearings?

[eastside 400]

i think honda is the only person to think they know!? the added collar is to keep pressure on the inner race of the one bearing, the old crank they said the inner race collar would walk back and fourth causing the crank bearing to go. I dont see how this piece helps alot and many people have blown the updated cranks. They also just revised the updated cranks and made them unavailable basically all the winter season when everyone needed to do rebuilds, i have the newest crank and dont notice a difference between the newest update and the older update.

[400cc]

Originally posted by eastside 400
i think honda is the only person to think they know!? the added collar is to keep pressure on the inner race of the one bearing, the old crank they said the inner race collar would walk back and fourth causing the crank bearing to go. I dont see how this piece helps alot and many people have blown the updated cranks. They also just revised the updated cranks and made them unavailable basically all the winter season when everyone needed to do rebuilds, i have the newest crank and dont notice a difference between the newest update and the older update.

so in your opinion do you think the hotrod crank is worth it in terms of reliability over the new updated oem crank?

[redrider74]

what about these?
http://www.walshracecraft.com/#/trx-450r-2/4530964845

scroll down and you'll see it

[Rich250RRacer]

Originally posted by redrider74
what about these?
http://www.walshracecraft.com/#/trx-450r-2/4530964845

scroll down and you'll see it

Are you referring to the crank bearing clips? Those are only used on 06-newer models, the case has a recess for them. No possible way to use them on an 04-05. Those are a joke any way. I've never heard of a failure on the stockers. Talk about a way to scam you out of $80. :huh

[Rich250RRacer]

Originally posted by eastside 400
i think honda is the only person to think they know!? the added collar is to keep pressure on the inner race of the one bearing, the old crank they said the inner race collar would walk back and fourth causing the crank bearing to go. I dont see how this piece helps alot and many people have blown the updated cranks. They also just revised the updated cranks and made them unavailable basically all the winter season when everyone needed to do rebuilds, i have the newest crank and dont notice a difference between the newest update and the older update.

I bought two of the cranks over the course of the winter, never had a problem getting them.

[eastside 400]

you got lucky then, everyone else had the nationally backordered

[redrider74]

Originally posted by Rich250RRacer
Are you referring to the crank bearing clips? Those are only used on 06-newer models, the case has a recess for them. No possible way to use them on an 04-05. Those are a joke any way. I've never heard of a failure on the stockers. Talk about a way to scam you out of $80. :huh


gotcha.. I heard someone talking about using those in an 04-05 to save there crank but obviously they were full of crap

[wckedclownz69]

they updated the main pin and collar.. were having too many failures... which got me on the shiet back order list but i got mine in a month so wasn't too bad..

[chad502ex]

ceramic bearings are imho the solution to this problem...

ceramics are harder, lighter, and stronger than the original steel bearings.

you can get the ceramic main sold individually, or you can buy the entire ceramic engine kit.

:macho

[ricks450]

Originally posted by 400cc
so in your opinion do you think the hotrod crank is worth it in terms of reliability over the new updated oem crank? the hot rod crank will have the same problem as the original honda crank. (unless they have changed but i dont think so) if u get the hot rod crank u still need the collar (retainer). the cranks from honda havent changed. the only thing honda did is make the retainer to hold the bearing tight. and made a new bigger I.D. seal to fit the retainer. I bought the hotrod crank and made the retainer and just got the seal from honda. there both good cranks. just the hodrod crank is rebuildable and the honda crank isnt. so if u have a crank problem in the future the hotrod crank cost 150 to rebuild over buying a whole new honda crank for 295. the only thing that sucks is if u want the hotrod crank and dont have anybody to make u a retainer. u have to buy the whole new crankshaft from honda to get the retainer. that blows u could always look at the bright side youll have a extra crank lying around LOL!

[ricks450]

Originally posted by chad502ex
ceramic bearings are imho the solution to this problem...

ceramics are harder, lighter, and stronger than the original steel bearings.

you can get the ceramic main sold individually, or you can buy the entire ceramic engine kit.

:macho just wanted to say thanks for the deminsions on that retainer man saved me alot of money man! Are you saying they make ceramic bearings now. That you can get to replace the steel bearings. Who sells these are do u match them up at a bearing supply house some where. Would diffently like to check this out. They would be alot better!

[400cc]

Originally posted by ricks450
just wanted to say thanks for the deminsions on that retainer man saved me alot of money man! Are you saying they make ceramic bearings now. That you can get to replace the steel bearings. Who sells these are do u match them up at a bearing supply house some where. Would diffently like to check this out. They would be alot better!

i found the website that sells them but i cant remember what it's called, it's been a while since i looked for them, i found the website searching google i think

ricks450 check out this page http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?postid=3575231

[400cc]

Originally posted by ricks450
the hot rod crank will have the same problem as the original honda crank. (unless they have changed but i dont think so) if u get the hot rod crank u still need the collar (retainer). the cranks from honda havent changed. the only thing honda did is make the retainer to hold the bearing tight. and made a new bigger I.D. seal to fit the retainer. I bought the hotrod crank and made the retainer and just got the seal from honda. there both good cranks. just the hodrod crank is rebuildable and the honda crank isnt. so if u have a crank problem in the future the hotrod crank cost 150 to rebuild over buying a whole new honda crank for 295. the only thing that sucks is if u want the hotrod crank and dont have anybody to make u a retainer. u have to buy the whole new crankshaft from honda to get the retainer. that blows u could always look at the bright side youll have a extra crank lying around LOL!

well that just sucks, so if i order a hotrod crank, it doesnt come with the retainer right? Could you explain the retainer thing, i'm a little lost on that, i have an idea of what it is but not really sure

also if i order the hotrod crank will my honda piston fit the rod or is that what the retainer is for?

[wckedclownz69]

the new hotrods crank comes with it.... and i just got one and yes your stock piston will fit.. and whatt are you talking about ricks..the new updated cranks you can rebuild everything now, if you wanted to..wrist pin holder is removable.. crankshaft removable..

[400cc]

Originally posted by wckedclownz69
the new hotrods crank comes with it.... and i just got one and yes your stock piston will fit.. and whatt are you talking about 400cc..the new updated cranks you can rebuild everything now, if you wanted to..wrist pin holder is removable.. crankshaft removable..

well i was just curious, i've never ordered a hotrod crank before and was just wondering, didn't want to order something and find out it doesnt come with everything

[wckedclownz69]

haha no man my bad it was ricks that said the paragraph idno what hes talking about... but i just got the updated hot rods and you just throw it in.. everything is removable too so like it the top of the shaft goes bad where you put the wrist pin.. you can just rebuild it

[400cc]

Originally posted by wckedclownz69
haha no man my bad it was ricks that said the paragraph idno what hes talking about... but i just got the updated hot rods and you just throw it in.. everything is removable too so like it the top of the shaft goes bad where you put the wrist pin.. you can just rebuild it

sweet deal, did you get the hotrods crank bearings also?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by ricks450
just wanted to say thanks for the deminsions on that retainer man saved me alot of money man! Are you saying they make ceramic bearings now. That you can get to replace the steel bearings. Who sells these are do u match them up at a bearing supply house some where. Would diffently like to check this out. They would be alot better!

The ceramics are constructed out of Honda inner race, outer race, and cage then assembled using Cerbec genuine ceramic balls.

So with these you get the Honda metal combined with the strength of Cerbec balls... best bearing known to man...

who sells them,... ? ;) I do!

[Rich250RRacer]

Originally posted by chad502ex
The ceramics are constructed out of Honda inner race, outer race, and cage then assembled using Cerbec genuine ceramic balls.

So with these you get the Honda metal combined with the strength of Cerbec balls... best bearing known to man...

who sells them,... ? ;) I do!

Not to knock what you sell, but a good friend decided to try the ceramic bearings in his CR250 microsprint motors, and to quote him, "those things are the biggest mistake I EVER made". They didn't make it one race in any of the motors he had them in and ended up costing him a fortune between the cost of the bearings and repairing the mess they made when they came apart.

[ricks450]

Originally posted by wckedclownz69
haha no man my bad it was ricks that said the paragraph idno what hes talking about... but i just got the updated hot rods and you just throw it in.. everything is removable too so like it the top of the shaft goes bad where you put the wrist pin.. you can just rebuild it the hot rod crank is rebuildable. (if the factory honda crank is rebuildable thats new 2 me.) and talking about the rod and lower bearing itself being able 2 be replaced. it wasent on the honda crank when i did my build just last year. got a guestion did u rebuild your motor your self? and if you did , did the inner race 2 the needle bearing on the crankshaft. (the 2-peice bearing) slide on the crank shaft by hand. if it did, you did not fix the problem buddy. if you did not have 2 press the tight *** little retainer on then u didnt fix it. now if hot rod makes the retainer now and it comes with the crank. then thats great! thats also new. but when i got my hotrod (it did not come with it). i made my own retainer on my lathe and got the seal from honda. for the guy doing his build and tring 2 figure out what 2 do. do what u want 2.but u really need 2 find out. i couldnt find out threw no one. alot of people just buy the hotrod crank and put it n thats a no-no. thats not fixing the problem. i bought the hotrod crank because u can seperate the crank and replace the rod and lower rod bearing. unlike the honda crank. when i got the crank i opened it up. it did not have the retainer nore did they make the crank alittle bigger 2 make the race tight. i figured it out as soon as i opened the box that i had 2 make my own retainer. just letting u no what i went thew 2 figure it out 4 myself. i did my own build so i no what i had 2 do. good luck!

[Smoker]

I'm in the same boat as Pacheco_450r, 04 still running strong. How expensive are the ceramic bearings compared to stock?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Rich250RRacer
Not to knock what you sell, but a good friend decided to try the ceramic bearings in his CR250 microsprint motors, and to quote him, "those things are the biggest mistake I EVER made". They didn't make it one race in any of the motors he had them in and ended up costing him a fortune between the cost of the bearings and repairing the mess they made when they came apart.

ahhh, yea I have heard stories of ppl using inferior chinese ceramics that fail... The difference is mine Honda/Cerbec ceramic hybrids won't fail.

Honda/Cerbec hybrid ceramics are the best ceramic bearing manufacture in the world. Cerbec ceramics are used in 2000hp Forumula 1 race engines... 50-100hp TRX engines are certainly no load problem for Cerbec ceramics balls. In fact, if the engine catastrophically fails, the only part left unharmed will be the ceramic balls because these balls are harder than steel!

The issue your good friend may have had is the quality of the bearing he used... There are chinese bearings all over Google and eBay to purchase, but that doesn't mean your installing a bearing HONDA and Cerbec designed either... The bearing i use are bearing made by HONDA and Cerbec together in one bearing. In fact, not knocking your friend, but most ppl don't even understand there are certain types of ceramics that can and can't be used in an engine. I've heard of ppl installing full ceramics, when they should only install hybrids in engines, or some ppl experimenting havn't even considered tolerances such as cage material/construction, radial clearances, race material/clearances are all very critical factors.


I guess what I've been saying for two years now is the ceramics I use for these TRX450's have proven to be far superior than any other OEM crank bearing replacement.... imhao.

[Rich250RRacer]

Originally posted by chad502ex
ahhh, yea I have heard stories of ppl using inferior chinese ceramics that fail... The difference is mine Honda/Cerbec ceramic hybrids won't fail.

Honda/Cerbec hybrid ceramics are the best ceramic bearing manufacture in the world. Cerbec ceramics are used in 2000hp Forumula 1 race engines... 50-100hp TRX engines are certainly no load problem for Cerbec ceramics balls. In fact, if the engine catastrophically fails, the only part left unharmed will be the ceramic balls because these balls are harder than steel!

The issue your good friend may have had is the quality of the bearing he used... There are chinese bearings all over Google and eBay to purchase, but that doesn't mean your installing a bearing HONDA and Cerbec designed either... The bearing i use are bearing made by HONDA and Cerbec together in one bearing. In fact, not knocking your friend, but most ppl don't even understand there are certain types of ceramics that can and can't be used in an engine. I've heard of ppl installing full ceramics, when they should only install hybrids in engines, or some ppl experimenting havn't even considered tolerances such as cage material/construction, radial clearances, race material/clearances are all very critical factors.


I guess what I've been saying for two years now is the ceramics I use for these TRX450's have proven to be far superior than any other OEM crank bearing replacement.... imhao.

Very interesting info, I will pass this along. Thanks.

[wckedclownz69]

Originally posted by ricks450
the hot rod crank is rebuildable. (if the factory honda crank is rebuildable thats new 2 me.) and talking about the rod and lower bearing itself being able 2 be replaced. it wasent on the honda crank when i did my build just last year. got a guestion did u rebuild your motor your self? and if you did , did the inner race 2 the needle bearing on the crankshaft. (the 2-peice bearing) slide on the crank shaft by hand. if it did, you did not fix the problem buddy. if you did not have 2 press the tight *** little retainer on then u didnt fix it. now if hot rod makes the retainer now and it comes with the crank. then thats great! thats also new. but when i got my hotrod (it did not come with it). i made my own retainer on my lathe and got the seal from honda. for the guy doing his build and tring 2 figure out what 2 do. do what u want 2.but u really need 2 find out. i couldnt find out threw no one. alot of people just buy the hotrod crank and put it n thats a no-no. thats not fixing the problem. i bought the hotrod crank because u can seperate the crank and replace the rod and lower rod bearing. unlike the honda crank. when i got the crank i opened it up. it did not have the retainer nore did they make the crank alittle bigger 2 make the race tight. i figured it out as soon as i opened the box that i had 2 make my own retainer. just letting u no what i went thew 2 figure it out 4 myself. i did my own build so i no what i had 2 do. good luck!


comes pressed in...to rebuiled i would assume you would have to press it out... and yes i did do my rebuild my self and i used oem bearrings... heard too much bad mouth about hot rod bearrings..and i talked to my one buddy and he said this is the first one hes seen.. so if you havn't seen the updated then you wouldn't see it lol.. you mightbe able to find a picture on google or somethin..

How can you tell when your crank bearings are going out besides metal shavings in the oil? The 450r is still a foreign and new vehicle to me, the 400ex I knew all the sounds, what it should sound like, what it sounds like when this or that is wrong... the 450r I'm like well I guess they all sound like this.