Solution to worn ball joints on stock a arms

[HotRod2Fitty]

Okay, I have stock a arms on my X and there getting a little play in them. I dont have enought money to buy aftermarkets and as far as i can tell the stock ball joints cannot be replaced. Well Im home from school today "sick" and I have come up with an idea.
The idea is to cut off the existing ball joint and then drill out a hole on the a arms. See the picture.

[HotRod2Fitty]

sry pic didnt work. But the idea is to cut off the joint and drill out a hole to fit an aftermarket ball joint. After drilling out the hole the stock a arm would look like the houser pictured below.

[HotRod2Fitty]

Hopefully after drilling out the hole I could use a laeger or any other aftermarket ball joint to put in the stock ones place. This would also add camber adjustment to the a arms. Pictured below.

[HotRod2Fitty]

Sound like something to try?

[quadfamily]

sounds real good. how will you cut the old one off straight?

[toby400ex]

yeah, if it is done right it might work, but the drilling part would be very difficult prolly, you are talking about, maybe an inch or more of solid steel to drill through, and it would all have to be spot on, Someone on here cut the hole ball joint part out of there a-arms and put a sleeve in the place to except aftermarket balljoints.....I think it was 2r'srider. Ive been wanting to do something like this just cuz it would look nice and i would also be able to adjust camber, and get them pc'ed purdy colors.:D

I think beerock knows how to do this and HAS done it before..send him a PM...;)

PS..nice pic of the houser A-arms...:D

[chavez]

my buddy fatboy does it to all of his quads use a sleeve and if you dont have the money to buy the laegers you can go to napa a get ball joints for a vw bug for like thirteen bucks each. when i had the laeger i did it a couple of times and they held up just as good as the high dollar ball joints

[user101]

Chavez can u explain ur freinds process.
i would like to hear some more information about this.
it sounds like a pretty good idea.
does anyone have pics of the process

[beerock]

I have done this a couple times but I stopped doing it.

chavez is right on the money on how to do it.

the sleeves are a must!

the hard part is cutting each bottom and top correctly.(getting the right angle) etc.

I stopped doing it because my friend broke a tie rod(ball joint) and wrecked his front end, it worried me about legal issues.

its not real hard a local machine shop should be able to help you

i have had no failures,,but not sure if i would wanna do others machines... ;)

[quadfamily]

which ball joints did you use 2R's? Do the VW ball joints really hold up or don't you know?

[Scott]

They're not VW ball joints, they're VW tie rod ends, and you use them for the ball joints on the quad.

[HotRod2Fitty]

So you guys think this sounds like a plan. Because if you are "supposed" to replace the whole a arm I mind as well give it a try. Thanks for the ideas guys. I think when the time comes for it I will try it.

Much appreciated

Matt
#182

[HotRod2Fitty]

I think I get the idea for the sleeve. Are you guys talking about putting a sleeve in where the hole has been drilled through the steel (outside part of the a arm where the old b joint got cut off)?

Originally posted by HotRod2Fitty
I think I get the idea for the sleeve. Are you guys talking about putting a sleeve in where the hole has been drilled through the steel (outside part of the a arm where the old b joint got cut off)?
sounds about right ..but i have only done this on R a arms .

[ranger400ex]

Set number four completed this last week. Use 1" OD heavy-wall tubing for the spacer. The Ball-joints are tie-rod ends for 71-78 Ford Courier tie-rod ends I believe the outer joints(One of them inner or outer has left handed threads the other is right handed. nead the right handed threads). available from any local parts store. The first couple set have held up real well. We Jsut did another set on john's quad and will see how they hold up to a full season of XC. cheap mod, and fairly easy to do.

[ranger400ex]

another

[ranger400ex]

2

[ranger400ex]

1

[HotRod2Fitty]

Hey Ranger 400 thanks for all the info. I think I am going to try it when the time comes. Thanks for the pics.

Matt

[HotRod2Fitty]

Hey Ranger 400 thanks for all the info. I think I am going to try it when the time comes. Thanks for the pics.

Matt

[quadfamily]

Ranger400,
Is that a-arm 250R, 400EX, 300EX or other? How exactly did you cut the old one off straight? I have some of that 1" tubing laying around but I thought it was smaller tubing that would be needed. Now that I'm thinking about it I am thinking of the upper arms. Does anyone know what size tubing and what ball joint/tie rod end works for hte uppers? I know they're a smaller diameter thread. Thanks bye the way, the info and pictures are great!

[ranger400ex]

Same ball joints for every one, I believe the correct ones are outer tie-rod ends from the ford courier. The tubing we used this time was black-pipe 1"od. Yes they are 400ex arms,haven't tried it on any others, but I will look into it.


Ben

Originally posted by ranger400ex
Set number four completed this last week. Use 1" OD heavy-wall tubing for the spacer. The Ball-joints are tie-rod ends for 71-78 Ford Courier tie-rod ends I believe the outer joints(One of them inner or outer has left handed threads the other is right handed. nead the right handed threads). available from any local parts store. The first couple set have held up real well. We Jsut did another set on john's quad and will see how they hold up to a full season of XC. cheap mod, and fairly easy to do.
there ya go ...good job !

[ranger400ex]

PS


Bob @ Meszaros Motorsports and Jim Geraci"Tinner" also should get some credit for this mod. Jim has alot of joint knowledge:eek: , and Bob gave some ideas for getting it all together.


Ben

[quadfamily]

Sooo ranger, If I understand you then you're using the same Courier tie rod ends and the same 1" tubing for the upper and lower control arms on 400EX, right? How much should I expect to pay for the tie rod ends?

[motoboy66]

Have you looked on E-bay yet. you might be able to get what you need for cheaper than new ball joints. This will save you a lot of time in the long run. Also a machine shop might not be too cheap to do the welding. Then you will have to get them sand blasted so you can repaint them. You might even look into getting an aftermarket set of arms off E-bay. I see them all the time for around $300. If you can do the work yourself I think your idea will work pretty well, so good luck.

[motoboy66]

I just looked at the pics very nice. I have some questions as this might work well on my LT230 I am fixing up. The lowwer a-arm already hase a one inch pipe and the ball joint went in that with a bolt from the back. How long is the part that goes into the pipe on the car ball joint? They want $50 for this ball joint at the dealer, so if this will work and be cheaper thats what the LT is going to get. Also how much was the ball joint from napa?

[beerock]

does the shaft of this tierod end go into the spindle all the way:confused:
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=416216

if it doesnt it changes the angle of the top and lower a-arms making them further apart from each other.

can you get some close ups of the ball joints installed on the spindle?

I shoudl get some credit for this too, I use to talk about it on here all the time but then my friend broke a ball joint and wrecked his whole front end.(I know it was prolly just the ball joint but I wasnt gonna chance it)

funny thing is, my friends ball joint broke just when i got LEOS(former webmaster) old 400ex a-arms to do the conversion. It spooked me out and I sent the arms back to leo.:o

[ranger400ex]

Rock-Yes, you just can't tell it from the pics, the boot is pushed up onto the bolt.

The tie-rod end is long enough to go through the a-arm and leave plenty for adjustment, and tighting. We are gonna go with lock nuts for the inside on the arms, don't trust jam nuts that much!!

Ben

[toby400ex]

Ok, let me get some things straight. Are you guys cutting out the entire balljoint and its little rod thing. Then welding in a new sleeve, with the smaller sleeve inside it. It sounds hard to get the angle straight when trying to deal with a person at a machine shop, they might need alot of explaining. Also if thats what you do, how do you get the angle correct. Heres a pic showing what i am asking, the red lines show where im talking about cutting the entire thing out then welding a new sleeve in.:confused:

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by toby400ex
Ok, let me get some things straight. Are you guys cutting out the entire balljoint and its little rod thing. Then welding in a new sleeve, with the smaller sleeve inside it. It sounds hard to get the angle straight when trying to deal with a person at a machine shop, they might need alot of explaining. Also if thats what you do, how do you get the angle correct. Heres a pic showing what i am asking, the red lines show where im talking about cutting the entire thing out then welding a new sleeve in.:confused:

i don't think beerock is gonna get the info

[toby400ex]

i know that, but other peeps did it too:huh

[Rip_Tear]

This sounds like an awsome idea, just make sure those cuts are prefect :D

[quadfamily]

No, you don't cut that whole part out. You just cut the ball joint off of the end. Then you're left with a hollow part. Then you weld a sleeve into the hollow part and install the ball joint. I haven't done it yet but I just got my ball joints in teh mail yesterday so I'll know better myself once I've done it. Also I'm doing the uppers not the lowers because I've heard that when you do the lowers their prone to failure because the stockers are beefier then the new ones.

[Sparks425Ex]

Sounds like a Good Money saving Idea..

Now Somone figure out how to make the a arms wider....:D

[markeg192]

OK Guys , I have done this by sleeving down the hole to fit VW tie rod ends. It turned bad so maybe I used the wrong tie rods?

[countypark]

Ranger

Did you weld the sleeve into the a-arm. The pic doesn't look welded at least on the end. I have been told to drill a hole through the a-arm bushing then weld the sleeve through the hole. I am guessing that the tube doesn't need to be welded.

Also, aren't the upper and lower ball joint tubes different diameters. The upper is a smaller diameter then the lower.

What the deal.

I am going to do the same thing to mine so I am just looking for some advise.

Thanks

[ranger400ex]

drill hole and weld in a couple spots...or if you know a good welder weld the tube in...

I haven't tried any more sets lately...been way to busy, but had another idea or too to make it easier.

the sleeve for the first few were black iron pipe bought at the local metal shop.


ben

lower needs it, and if my memory serves me correct the top doesn't need one with the right ball joints.

ps after some trials the VW version of joints are way easier to turn..unless you are :macho

[bradley300]

ben, i sent you a pm

[Quadworks]

:confused:

[rap169]

im confused, is it the ford tie rod ends or the VW ? I called the local parts place and was quoted a price of almost 40 bucks each for the ineer tie rod ends for a ford courrier. Never checked VW . Would aftermarket ball joints from lonestar or some other company work?

[rap169]

anybody?

[markeg192]

Rap the aftermarket doesn't make thier joints but use the ones mentioned in this thread. The VW joints can be bought at O'Rielys or Advanceauto for $15 here so shop around before you buy.

[Braff1]

I searched around and found the ford courier tie rod ends any where from 14.99 to 28.99, it just depends on the manufactor. Check autozone or Napa.

[Jeffksf]

I did my lowers on my Z. I bought my joints right from Ricky Stator though.
The Z arm is a little different, you don't need to put a sleeve in it instead you have to drill the hole out to make it bigger. I then taped threads in the arm the same as the ball joint threads. And jam nutted with plenty of loctite.
The other advantage is you can now powdercoat the arms with out the balljoints going into the curing oven.

[zlam27]

great info guys. can we put this post (or the informative parts of it) in the tech section. a big thanks to all those who took the time to experiment and get this mod perfected. i dont really need or want aftermarket a-arms so ill probably do this when the stockers go bad. thanks again.

zach

[rap169]

ok i got it....but if i go and get vw tie rod ends, what year and model do i ask for? Is there inner and outers on vw? which one of those do i need?
thanks for all the great info.
rick

[PHIL_B54]

someone is selling them right now
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43974&item=2452702342

[rap169]

anybody know bout the VW tir rod ends?

[RedEX Baron]

VW bugs are basically all the same ( i own a hot rodded 74 with NOS) so i would just ask for 74 VW beetle outer tie rod end, parts for VW's are cheap also.. you may find someone selling the heavy duty ones in a mag like Hot VW's or sandsports..ones they would use in BAJA bugs..and if you have a choice spend a couple of dollars more and get German ends over Mexican they will hold up alot better.

[rap169]

so its the outer tir rod ends that i need for my 400 a-arms? Just making sure before i go buy them, i dont want to make 20 trips to the auto parts store since the closest one to my house is 30 min away.

[RedEX Baron]

not sure if its the inner or the outer, ask them to see both and use the one that has right hand thread.

[UglyMotha™]

here's my stab at it :o




http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid104/p4fbcc2370305a030ef59813d44064eb6/f99abed4.jpg

[quadfamily]

Looks good Ugly. (that just doesn't sound right!) What arm is that? Did you ride with it yet?

[UglyMotha™]

that's an upper stock 4 hundy arm haven't rode with it yet i still need to pick up the rest of the tie-rods plus the bike is a long ways from being completed at the moment

[UglyMotha™]

oh yah just some food for thought cause no one actually came out and gave the correct one but said both........ don't get the ford courier outer tie rod end get the inner cause the outer is a left hand thread and you need a right hand thread or else you'll have grave difficulties finding nuts for em :o

[Sick0]

Anybody have part numbers for the tie rod ends.