Stop crying about quads getting parted out!

[8686]

I'm tired of all the crybabies complaining about nice quads getting parted out. Why on earth would you complain? If it weren't for some of these partouts, some really nice parts might never have been available for the next guy that's trying to build up his quad. I bet for every quad that gets parted out there's a nice 250R that gets resurrected. I, for one, enjoy being able to buy nice parts for my builds.

Some of the people that are complaining the most seem to do the least amount of actual quad building and riding/racing. They just seem to have a bunch of parts and do a bunch of talking.

STOP CRYING!

[Honda 250r 001]

I like steves way of doing things. Part out the aftermarket framed quads. and keep the near stock 250r's together.
But, if everyone starts parting out quads, then why would aftermarket companies keep making parts for the 250r if everyone is buying used? No demand. And then when they do completely stop making parts, the used parts are all used up.

But on the other hand, you could argue that most companies have already stopped making parts for the 250r. So we are running on pure used parts. So part outs would be good for us die hard 250r owners.

Just a thought. Im not crying about it either way. Just stating my oppinion. (if anyone cares)

[DEERCHOOPER]

the reason ppl part them out, because they will get more for them.

lets see, sell whole for 2000

or put a little work into it and part it and make $3500 or more.

what would you do?

it happens to all quads, not just our beloved 250r.

[LONG-ROD]

Part outs are great.. keeps the good parts in the hands of the enthusiast. not the jack leg that came across 4 grand and bought the quad cause it looked cool. and then lets it go to sh*t.

[8686]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
I like steves way of doing things. Part out the aftermarket framed quads. and keep the near stock 250r's together.
But, if everyone starts parting out quads, then why would aftermarket companies keep making parts for the 250r if everyone is buying used? No demand. And then when they do completely stop making parts, the used parts are all used up.

But on the other hand, you could argue that most companies have already stopped making parts for the 250r. So we are running on pure used parts. So part outs would be good for us die hard 250r owners.

Just a thought. Im not crying about it either way. Just stating my oppinion. (if anyone cares)


Full race 450R's get parted out every day. Do you think the aftermarket companies are going to even slow down making parts for them? No.

[Velvet-Casket]

Originally posted by 8686
Full race 450R's get parted out every day. Do you think the aftermarket companies are going to even slow down making parts for them? No. LOL 450r's are still being produced and if honda were to stop today. The 450r would still last longer than our beloved dieing breed R's. THE ONLY WE CAN FIX THIS PROBLEM IS TO CONVINCE PRO's TO RACE THEM AGAIN. We need to gather in a massive crowd with signs up in the air saying stuff like "SAVE THE 250R". That is probably the only way turn aftermarket companies back. But also this task is almost as difficult to convince companies to start building 3 wheelers again.

[LONG-ROD]

I have mixed feelings on the R. its legendary, true. but the after market R is what gave it so many titles. I dont really care about preserving the stockers. mod them all. your bike should only be as good as you can build it. most people that would buy a quad, like a pro-trax or lobo, ect probably shouldn't have it. so part them all out if your done with them..

[8686]

Originally posted by Velvet-Casket
LOL 450r's are still being produced and if honda were to stop today. The 450r would still last longer than our beloved dieing breed R's. THE ONLY WE CAN FIX THIS PROBLEM IS TO CONVINCE PRO's TO RACE THEM AGAIN. We need to gather in a massive crowd with signs up in the air saying stuff like "SAVE THE 250R". That is probably the only way turn aftermarket companies back. But also this task is almost as difficult to convince companies to start building 3 wheelers again.

Sorry, but it's not up to the pro riders as to what they can ride.

[8686]

Originally posted by LONG-ROD
I have mixed feelings on the R. its legendary, true. but the after market R is what gave it so many titles. I dont really care about preserving the stockers. mod them all. your bike should only be as good as you can build it. most people that would buy a quad, like a pro-trax or lobo, ect probably shouldn't have it. so part them all out if your done with them..

True, but you don't see a stock 450R winning a pro moto at the nationals, do you? Or ANY brand in stock form for that matter.

[LONG-ROD]

Originally posted by 8686
True, but you don't see a stock 450R winning a pro moto at the nationals, do you? Or ANY brand in stock form for that matter.

Kinda my point.. like the shoot out they just did.. new tech vs. old. should do a modded R vs. a modded 450. that would be apples to apples. the 2 stroke is gone in racing as long as there is enough money to support the cost of 4 strokes. and I dont see the money drying up..

[destey]

I'm all for partout. Rich kids take the hit paying 2x what I would, then I get lightly used for decent prices.

[8686]

Originally posted by LONG-ROD
Kinda my point.. like the shoot out they just did.. new tech vs. old. should do a modded R vs. a modded 450. that would be apples to apples. the 2 stroke is gone in racing as long as there is enough money to support the cost of 4 strokes. and I dont see the money drying up..

I hate to break it to you but the money is already drying up. Factory race teams are cutting back or pulling the plug on their operations altogether. Just a couple years ago there was about three times as many factory riders as there will be this year. Kawasaki pulled out. Honda pulled out. Yamaha is down to one rider. Suzuki has two riders. KTM still has no team. I think Can Am has two teams with two riders each. And that's it. The rest are privateers. Just like the good old days.

The 250 two stroke dirt bikes recently received a bump in recognition when they were allowed to race against the 250 4 strokes in the same class in the amateur ranks.

Nothing ever stays the same for long...

[Lasher]

Until they remove the prodcution restriction in the pro class, the R will never be run by the pros.

Talking to a few ex pro riders from back then at the local races, they would love to have the handling of an aftermarket R back but the problem is motor.

A 250cc motor will have a tough time keeping up with the 450cc motors today on the track. Not saying it cannot be done, just tough.

Now allow a full aftermarket R based frame to run with a big bore R motor...now you are talking.

As for parting out? There is a bigger market (read...quicker sale) for buying parts than whole quads. I have been trying to sell my roller chassis for a while now with no hits. I know I can get more parting it out (and people are bugging me about certain parts), but I either need to sell all the parts right away or I would be stuck with no quad to race this year.

[All250R]

For me it's about rider loyalty and parts demand. Every bike that goes away because they dumped it for a 450 is another person who won't call for parts. Reduction of the R population to put parts on active bikes is a cycle of defeat for the R, ending in extinction. It's probably inevitable anyway, but I don't encourage hastening its demise. However, if the frames are used to build another bike to buy parts for then obviously that's a good thing, but I don't think that's what happening when people make a living off hunting down a rider's R to scrap it... It is what it is though. I don't think there's an effective enough mechanism in sight at least to stop the R from eventually disappearing.

[LONG-ROD]

Originally posted by 8686
I hate to break it to you but the money is already drying up. Factory race teams are cutting back or pulling the plug on their operations altogether. Just a couple years ago there was about three times as many factory riders as there will be this year. Kawasaki pulled out. Honda pulled out. Yamaha is down to one rider. Suzuki has two riders. KTM still has no team. I think Can Am has two teams with two riders each. And that's it. The rest are privateers. Just like the good old days.

The 250 two stroke dirt bikes recently received a bump in recognition when they were allowed to race against the 250 4 strokes in the same class in the amateur ranks.

the money is not drying up.. factory teams may cut back, and the gate might be seeded with all privateers, but they will always be 99% 4 strokes.. because people have the money to have them, mod them, race them..

Nothing ever stays the same for long...

[Lasher]

While this does not apply to two stroke quads, there are a lot of bike guys swtiching back to the 2 strokes.

Reason...cost to maintain the 4 stroke motor is too high for racing.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by Lasher
While this does not apply to two stroke quads, there are a lot of bike guys swtiching back to the 2 strokes.

Reason...cost to maintain the 4 stroke motor is too high for racing.

yes, i can believe that. But i dont believe that the pros are switching back.

[destey]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
yes, i can believe that. But i dont believe that the pros are switching back.

I'm under the mentality if you can buy, brand new, a-arms, shocks, the whole 9 yards... doing the top end on a 4stroke is just another cost.

I go on racing product websites and see the prices. I have a hard time believing someone can plunk down thousands to bring the quad up to their standards then can't afford $700 on a top end job (or whatever it costs). ATVers throw money around left and right. This isn't a cheap sport

[Lasher]

Originally posted by destey
This isn't a cheap sport

No...it is not a cheap sport (bike or quad racing). That is the reason a lot of local bike riders (not pros) are switching back. They need to cut back on how much it costs for racing, and the 4 stroke motor cost more than a 2 stroke motor.

[K-Dub]

Two stroke motocross.com is doing Project 250. They are putting a YZ250 out on the track at 5 nationals in the pro class this year. One difference between us and them the YZ is still in production and the R isnt, so we cant get around the production rule. To me with the factories leaving so should the production rule. We survived with out the factories thanks to Duncan, Sparks, TC, LRD, CT, Baldwin, Leager, Roll, LSR, and Walsh. To a point these teams pretty much left when the factories teams came back, will they come back and save us again now that the factories are leaving again?

[8686]

Originally posted by K-Dub
Two stroke motocross.com is doing Project 250. They are putting a YZ250 out on the track at 5 nationals in the pro class this year. One difference between us and them the YZ is still in production and the R isnt, so we cant get around the production rule. To me with the factories leaving so should the production rule. We survived with out the factories thanks to Duncan, Sparks, TC, LRD, CT, Baldwin, Leager, Roll, LSR, and Walsh. To a point these teams pretty much left when the factories teams came back, will they come back and save us again now that the factories are leaving again?

Some of those guys never left. They were just overshadowed by the factories. Not any more. :devil: Josh Upperman rides for Baldwin. Jeremy Lawson rides for Walsh. Just a couple examples of what we will be seeing at the races this weekend. It's like ten years ago all over again. I can't wait.

[LONG-ROD]

in mx raceing. (bikes) the 2 stroke is gone untill the AMA changes the lead rule. you cant build a bike to run with the 450.s if you have to build it for pump gas. James Stewart was one of the last big names to ride a 2 stroke, KX 250. he complained at every race he just cant keep up on the 2 stroke, and pretty much gave up. and if bubba cant keep up on a 2 stroke neither can I , you or anyone else. Also supercross tracks are different to suit the four strokes forward momentum all traction characteristics.

[8686]

Originally posted by LONG-ROD
in mx raceing. (bikes) the 2 stroke is gone untill the AMA changes the lead rule. you cant build a bike to run with the 450.s if you have to build it for pump gas. James Stewart was one of the last big names to ride a 2 stroke, KX 250. he complained at every race he just cant keep up on the 2 stroke, and pretty much gave up. and if bubba cant keep up on a 2 stroke neither can I , you or anyone else. Also supercross tracks are different to suit the four strokes forward momentum all traction characteristics.

At the pro level it's all about money. The factories push the 450's so that's what they ride. I take it you haven't been to a national? More and more amateurs are going back to two strokes.

[Rich250RRacer]

Originally posted by All250R
For me it's about rider loyalty and parts demand. Every bike that goes away because they dumped it for a 450 is another person who won't call for parts. Reduction of the R population to put parts on active bikes is a cycle of defeat for the R, ending in extinction. It's probably inevitable anyway, but I don't encourage hastening its demise. However, if the frames are used to build another bike to buy parts for then obviously that's a good thing, but I don't think that's what happening when people make a living off hunting down a rider's R to scrap it... It is what it is though. I don't think there's an effective enough mechanism in sight at least to stop the R from eventually disappearing.

I have to agree 100%.

[LONG-ROD]

Originally posted by 8686
At the pro level it's all about money. The factories push the 450's so that's what they ride. I take it you haven't been to a national? More and more amateurs are going back to two strokes.

i have been to my fair share of races.. there are no 2 strokes winning at any AMA pro nationals or supercross races. I haven't looked real hard but I don't recall seeing any on the line in some time now.. amateur racing is a different ball game. so like I should have said more clearly, in mx raceing, AMA pro level, the 2 stroke is gone until they change the rules.

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by 8686
At the pro level it's all about money. The factories push the 450's so that's what they ride. I take it you haven't been to a national? More and more amateurs are going back to two strokes.

I agree with Long-Rod, the unleaded gas rule did kill the two stroke in AMA Motorcross and Supercross. Regardless though, even if the rule was never to be, two stokes would have been gone anyway. There is a production rule also, so even if someone like Kevin Windham wanted to ride a Honda 250 two stroke, he couldn't, no longer in production. besides, it is not like the manufacturers did away with two strokes because they did not like them, they quit making them because no one was buying them!

I have no idea about the nationals, but I know the races I race in, the two strokes are for sure a minority. Yeah, a few have went back to two strokes here and there, but not to many. I remember when everyone in the desert rode KX500's. I maybe see one or two a year now. Doesn't matter if the two strokes are being raced or not, I doubt them racing wil lead to a comeback. Remember, very few of the bikes/quads purchased these days are used for racing, almost all go to trail riders. What do the majority of the trail riders want? A easy to ride four stroke. Like it or not, the four stroke is here to stay.

Doug

[shiftyfofiddy]

doug,very well put. its all about how the bike rides to MOST consumers, they just want to toss gas in it and go. i do alot of local races here in oregon and in the atv racing there is 1 2troke to 100 4strokes. but make an hour drive to the sand...... well thats another set up. if your fast on the hill or on the flats you have a 2 stroke and its obvious. nut sooner or later the 4 strokes will take over that also. its about advancement in technology. i mean look at how far this has come with atv now we have fuel injection and huge tq numbers. i spoke with a pro at the last race i was at about what he liked more, his 250 or 450, he said they both have there ups and downs but the 4 stroke is the only way to go.

[8686]

At the bike nationals at the amateur level, it is now legal to race a 250 2 stroke against the 250 4 strokes. You used to have to race a 125. Since the 2 stroke makes about 10 more horsepower than the 4 stroke of equal displacement, and is easier and less expensive to maintain, some riders are switching back to the 2 stroke. I don't know why you wouldn't?

[troybilt]

..and the debate rages on... I for one don't think we've seen the end of the 2 strokes. Alot of money is being funneled into 2 stroke R&D in the automotive and marine world, even hybrids. Its a simple fact, Occam's Razor, the simpliest solution is always the better one. Now with the advent of ecm's and fuel injection, the door has been thrown open once more. Check out Orbital injection, Evinrude or even ktm's new prototype fuelie 2 stroke. ...Build more power with less weight and moving parts... It may be 10 years, but "they'll be back". Will they be in motorcross...? who knows, I wouldn't bet against them. All the arguments against 2 strokes:

1.) Efficiency
2.) Emissions
3.) Mixing fuel
4.) Torque curve/Powerband
5.) Expansion chamber, scavenging

All of which can now be solved with ecm's and fuel injection.

anyway just my opinions from my research...

[CODY_M11]

i was riding my buddys new kfx450r and its fuel injected. ever since riding it i cant stop thinking about a 2 stroke fuel injected. that would be amazing to ride :macho

[ridered250R]

troybilt, love the research on your own, keep it up. I try to find these things out myself.

just so everyone is clear, we may want to start another thread on this stuff. we are so far off parting out 250R topics its funny. But one has to love the great discussion.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by ridered250R
troybilt, love the research on your own, keep it up. I try to find these things out myself.

just so everyone is clear, we may want to start another thread on this stuff. we are so far off parting out 250R topics its funny. But one has to love the great discussion.

Havnt we finished the discussion about parting out 250r's?

[All250R]

Originally posted by shiftyfofiddy
its about advancement in technology.
Can you define what an advancement in technology is?