piss on a 450r carb....... [Archive]

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 11:28 AM

Im about ready to throw this thing in the woods and let it rot. This is the most aggravating thing ive ever messed with. Not only is the fuel line a complete pain in my *** to find but now the bowl is leaking around the drain screw and the jetting is a complete ***** to get right...... Im about to throw in the towel on this and get me another 400ex carb

bkelley

03-09-2010, 11:59 AM

I can't even get the bowl off to mess with the jets on mine haha. Only one of the screws comes off easy, the rest don't want to budge and I don't want to strip them. I know stuff like this can be frustrating but you just gotta stay level headed and work through the problems.

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 12:04 PM

I am just ordering the fuel line from bikebandit.com since my local honda dealership doesnt know how to stock fuel lines for these so the bike will be down for some time. Ill pick up another o-ring for it and hope that it solves the bowl problem. If it still leaks, up for sale she goes and a 400ex carb is going on it

bkelley

03-09-2010, 12:08 PM

How much did the fuel line cost? I was hoping I could use my stock line.

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 12:12 PM

i got it from bikebandit.com for $14.06 shipped.

man no way that stock line will fit over that. Whoever said it would (which i have read that someone said it would work) is full of bs.

Also dont forget to bore out your intake boot some, itll help to get it on which i need to order a new one since mine is cracked.

bkelley

03-09-2010, 12:27 PM

What year carb are you putting on? And I'm gonna run the ESR Airbox Eliminator with mine.

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 12:40 PM

04/05 carb. I heard they work the best. I found out its not the bowl leaking just was the fuel line i had. I think i might have found a way to make a temporary line while i wait on my OEM line to come in. I just need a line good enough to plug chop this thing so I can make sure its jetted.

BTW, i see you want a 450r swinger, what year model do you want? I have a 04/05 one left over from my 250r build

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 01:33 PM

well got the temp line going, now its still out of jetting. I should have listened to another member on here and went big with my jets. I think a 200 will do it, or something very close, it was starting to get a light brown tint to the plug but still lean.

slightlybent47

03-09-2010, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by mineralgrey01gt
i got it from bikebandit.com for $14.06 shipped.

man no way that stock line will fit over that. Whoever said it would (which i have read that someone said it would work) is full of bs.

Also dont forget to bore out your intake boot some, itll help to get it on which i need to order a new one since mine is cracked.

Here is a pic of my stock fuel line on my 450 carb set up. And yes it will fit. As for it running right mine was the easiest mod I’ve done. It went right on and runs perfect, and I’ve had no issues with it at all. Mine had the hrc kit in it and it is perfect for the mods I have.
As for boring out the intake boot, that’s not necessary. I just sprayed a little WD40 in there and slipped it right in with no problem. I did have to use a deferent clamp on it as the one that was on the 400 carb was too small.

Sorry you’re having so much trouble with yours, it could be that the carb you’re trying to use is junk.

http://i41.tinypic.com/s2v953.jpg

slightlybent47

03-09-2010, 02:34 PM

The secret to getting the stock fuel line to work, is to jam a spark plug into the end that goes to the carb and then let it sit in some hot water to soften it up and stretch it out a little. Then it will slip right on. Check the fuel inlet tube on the carb and see if the fuel screen is in place. There is a screen that goes in there and that may need to be cleaned. If you don’t have one in there, then you need one.

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 02:38 PM

Carb is fine and how did u get it to stretch over the spout on the carb, heating it wouldn't even come close to fitting on mine, not enough stretch in the line. Glad urs works so easy mine sure isn't

slightlybent47

03-09-2010, 03:27 PM

I just jammed a spark plug in there and put it in some hot water, and it went on. I did have to finagle it a bit. It is so tight that I don’t even need a clamp to hold it on. Lol
Do you have the screen in the fuel inlet tube?

honda400ex2003

03-09-2010, 03:39 PM

sounds like you are having some major issues. lol. i would say you have a leak if you are having issues with jetting. I am running a 172 with my lid on and it is just about perfect with my 416. Take whatever you were jetted at in your stock 400 carb and add 4 sizes so if you were at a 170 go to a 174. This should be just about perfect for you. Stretch out the tube and you should be able to get it working, i used a stock 450 line and trimmed it a bit to get it to fit without kinking. I would def check for leaks if you are at a 200 main with a 416. just my opinion, steve

lester985

03-09-2010, 03:54 PM

im running a 175,52 on my 426 with a fcr carb ive tried stock carbs and eldbrock that i gave away because they are junk but ive never ran a 450r carb but to me a fcr is by far the best and if u look on ebay u can get them fairly cheap mine was 159$ but just my .02

JOHNDOE83

03-09-2010, 03:59 PM

with an airbox, or at higher elevation's you need smaller jets.

I have NO leaks and use a 190 thats slightly lean with my mods.

Im at sea level, 0-30ft ....lol

honda400ex2003

03-09-2010, 04:03 PM

John shows at a 200 is WAY too big for a 416. steve

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 04:04 PM

ive also read on other forums that its normal for 190's and up at sea level and on this one mostly everyone is running 170's-175's. I tried a 175, no way in the world that'll go. Im going to try the 190 and go from there.and see what happens, the pilot may be too big in it also, not sure on that one yet. I also checked for leaks, none at all, i have a slight oil leak but i know what thats from.

I never thought about the sparkplug trick. Ill try that and see if it will slide on. I do have the screen, i took it out and cleaned it out, it was full of trash, ran much better with that cleaned out.

JOHNDOE83

03-09-2010, 04:06 PM

go to www.jetsrus.com and look at the FAQ's part

lester985

03-09-2010, 04:07 PM

what size pilot jet do u have

honda400ex2003

03-09-2010, 04:11 PM

do you have more done to your machine than is in your sig? It is pretty hard to believe that a 190 is needed for a 416 at sea level with a dg exhaust and a stage 2 cam and that is it. something must be wrong. do you have the hot start plugged with the correct plunger or with a bolt? something is not adding up to come out to a 190 in anything with a 416 in it. lol. the stock pilot on a 450 carb should be plenty with around 3 turns out on the f/a screw also. I have no problems starting in the cold or anything with a 172, 3rd position on the needle, stock pilot, 3 turns out with 20 1/2" holes drilled in a lid and the snorkel plugged. If i would have had a 174 for the carb i would have put it in to run the lid off. steve

JOHNDOE83

03-09-2010, 04:14 PM

I was gonna ask about the hot start also...lol...good call.

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by lester985
what size pilot jet do u have

55 in it now, i have a 52 and 50 that can be changed in though, and a 58

Nah, nothing else done to the quad but whats in my sig. Im going to see how it runs on the 190. I thought it sounded big to me also

also how do these things idle with the cams in them? Any more aggressive of an idle? I read plenty of places to be looking for a smooth idle but mine doesnt idle so smooth, doesnt go up and down in rpm any just has a rough idle

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 04:30 PM

i believe the hot start is plugged right. It has RTV sealent over it right now, but i guess i need to pull that out and make sure its all right

honda400ex2003

03-09-2010, 04:32 PM

it should not idle that rough but it will have a bit of a wobble to it. lol. how is the hot start plugged and how does the plug look after letting it idle for a couple of minutes? it sounds like you are way rich on the pilot also but if the hotstart is leaking it will cause rough idle too. steve

JOHNDOE83

03-09-2010, 04:32 PM

If the idle is consistent it should be fine, the only difference I noticed after the cam install, is that you can hear a slight rumble idleing and a lil more rumble on decell, atleast with mine.

honda400ex2003

03-09-2010, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by mineralgrey01gt
i believe the hot start is plugged right. It has RTV sealent over it right now, but i guess i need to pull that out and make sure its all right

so it has the correct plunger and such in it and screwed down then? steve

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
it should not idle that rough but it will have a bit of a wobble to it. lol. how is the hot start plugged and how does the plug look after letting it idle for a couple of minutes? it sounds like you are way rich on the pilot also but if the hotstart is leaking it will cause rough idle too. steve

well its not a ridiculous rough idle but its a noticeable difference than a stock one. This bike always idled rough, so i never heard it idle right. It does idle much much better with this carb on it though and after the rebuild. Like i said im about to go pull the hot start out of it, check it make sure its all sealed and right and do it again. I might put the 52 back in.

The plug looks white with a slight hint of brown tint to it, and i mean a hint. I have the screw turned at 2 1/2 right now, ill go out to 3 and put the 52 in it and see what happens

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
so it has the correct plunger and such in it and screwed down then? steve

lol i guess, im not sure. I know it has the sealent over it right now. Let me go run out and pull it off real quick and check. Also know how people said to plug that top vent? Well if mine is plugged it causes the bike to go to an extremely high idle then unplug it, it will go right back to normal

honda400ex2003

03-09-2010, 04:41 PM

sounds good , good luck dude, it sucks to have it not work correctly lol. steve

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 04:43 PM

lol thanks. It can be a headache and id hate to switch back to a 400ex carb. If this carb fails me i might just buy a brand new 450r one from service honda and try it out.

honda400ex2003

03-09-2010, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by mineralgrey01gt
lol i guess, im not sure. I know it has the sealent over it right now. Let me go run out and pull it off real quick and check. Also know how people said to plug that top vent? Well if mine is plugged it causes the bike to go to an extremely high idle then unplug it, it will go right back to normal

mine is plugged and it seems to be ok. I would go with the stock pilot and go to 3 turns out and see how it does. also turn the idle down so it is not hitting the arm to adjust it. then you can make sure it is low and see how high the idle is. sorry about the last one, this popped up as i was doing mine. steve

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 04:46 PM

It cranks very easy right now but i think i am going to bump that pilot down and turn the screw out, turning it out richens it right?

honda400ex2003

03-09-2010, 04:47 PM

heres my pics of mine,

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=421133&highlight=install

pic 5 is the one that shows the little tab on top being filled and the hot start setup before i plugged it. steve

honda400ex2003

03-09-2010, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by mineralgrey01gt
It cranks very easy right now but i think i am going to bump that pilot down and turn the screw out, turning it out richens it right?

yup, steve

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 04:50 PM

damn i had the screw thing wrong lol. Ill turn it out some more

honda400ex2003

03-09-2010, 04:55 PM

lol that is your problem then, that is the biggest cause of issues with jetting these. steve

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 06:30 PM

Well, I put the 52 back in it and turned the screw 3 1/4 and it's spot on for idle. Now I put a 190 in it but haven't went and plug chopped it yet

honda400ex2003

03-09-2010, 07:34 PM

sounds cool, you will be way rich with that in there. i would say go with a 176 if you have one and you should be about spot on. steve

honda400ex2003

03-09-2010, 07:35 PM

oh and you must have got the valve in correctly huh? lol steve

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 08:24 PM

lol yeah i did. Im going to chop it tomorrow to see how it does on the 190. I took it around the yard in 2nd gear and it pulled well but i need to get it on top end. It was nice pulling the plug after it idled and seeing that beautiful light brown tint :macho

also i tried the whole spark plug method for the fuel line, it was a no go lol so i just made a "custom" line for it, works great, no leaks at all

bkelley

03-09-2010, 08:49 PM

Glad to hear you got it going.

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 10:09 PM

man you and me both. This was the worse one ive done yet and ive done a couple 2 strokes and a few 4 strokes but this one took the cake. My 250r was simple compared to this lol

slightlybent47

03-09-2010, 10:40 PM

Glad to see you got it worked out, sometimes things that are supposed to be easy turn out to be a *****. It will be worth it though.

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by slightlybent47
Glad to see you got it worked out, sometimes things that are supposed to be easy turn out to be a *****. It will be worth it though.

thanks man, i was about ready to throw it in the river lol, glad i stuck with it and took a break from it to think it over and figure it out and ask for help on here. Everyone was a great help with this build. Im debating on keeping it for a while or getting a 450. I think I could get possibly $2500 for it but it is a fun bike, i might just keep it.

Im finishing it all up tomorrow morning and ill post pics up in my build thread of the final product

slightlybent47

03-09-2010, 10:52 PM

I’m glad we could all pitch in and help. I’d say keep the ex if you don’t need to sell it. You could never replace it for the time and money you have tied up in it. It’s always good to have spare bike to fall back on when you need it.

mineralgrey01gt

03-09-2010, 11:04 PM

Thats what i was thinking too. I havent had the bike 4 months yet and already put around $2000 into it including what I bought it for. Im kinda anxious to really open it up and see what it has in it.

honda400ex2003

03-10-2010, 10:27 AM

sounds cool dude congrats. good luck on the chops. let us know what you come up with. steve

mineralgrey01gt

03-10-2010, 11:11 AM

well i chopped it, came out the wrong color every time. I re-checked for any leaks and there is none so I went up on my jets, im at a 195, put a new plug in it and it the middle part is still solid white but the top part (where the electrode shoots from) is a white with a slight brown tint to it. Im going up to a 205 and see what it looks like after that but im tired of fooling with jetting a carb today lol

i did open it up today on the highway to see what it would do, damn near flipped over backwards when i hit 2nd, got it to drop down and stood it back up in 3rd. Torquey little motor, i give it that.

mineralgrey01gt

03-10-2010, 12:00 PM

also ill add my snorkel isnt plugged on my box and no lid at all on it. Do you think I should buy a lid and seal up the snorkel and see what it does then?

and wouldnt my jets be slighly higher with the 11:1 compression piston?

slightlybent47

03-10-2010, 12:08 PM

That really depends on what kind of riding your going to be doing, and if you want to get the max out of it. I run an open box but I use the stock filter and put a outer filter over that, and I use Bell filter oil and nothing gets through that sucker. The outer filter really helps a lot and I don’t have to clean it as much. But I do confess that I clean it almost every time I ride it.

See i knew the power and throttle responce wold be way better.

mineralgrey01gt

03-10-2010, 01:30 PM

well its not about keeping water out its about trying to richen this thing up some. My 250r ran an open filter and it ran great but i cant get the jetting right with this carb for some reason

slightlybent47

03-10-2010, 02:36 PM

You got me workin on mine now. Lol
I had a 188 main in it and I just bumped it up to a 195, unfortunately they did have a bigger one then a 195 so I have the guy that built the motor to look around at his shop to see if he has a bigger one I can try.
I did notice a very slight popping trying to start when I decelerate, but it’s just starting to pop a bit, so I will try to go up one number on the pilot jet and see what it does.

I have to wait till Brandon looks around to see what he has. I don’t want to spend the money on jets that don’t get me where I need to be. It will be a few days till I can get buy there and pick them up.

Here is a pic of the plug chop with the 195 jet. It still looks lean to me. so I will try a bigger one when I get my hands on it.
http://i40.tinypic.com/m7b9k9.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/15ebptk.jpg

These pics are the plug that i've been running all winter

http://i40.tinypic.com/1rer9h.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/wsphzl.jpg

mineralgrey01gt

03-10-2010, 04:03 PM

Mine is a little lighter than the top plug, I have a 195 in mine now, going up to 205 and see what happens

JOHNDOE83

03-11-2010, 05:23 PM

GO BIG, or go home...lol...

If a usual stock jet, in a stock carb, is a 148, and you buy a pipe they usually send a 155 jet with the pipe right? sometimes...

so if you need a 7 size increase just for a pipe, and thats a ball park, guesstimation from the dealer....think about what you need for a big bore, carb size increase, cam, filter, etc...

I apologize if it makes people mad, but I would bet most people that have jetted their motor, are still to lean and dont even know it.

mineralgrey01gt

03-11-2010, 06:23 PM

FINALLY!!!!! It's dead on now. I put the 205 in it, 52 pilot, 3 1/4 turns out on the screw and it's on the money. I just got done putting it all back together, looks killer with the wheel/tire combo. I'll snap a pic of it tonight, it needs some cosmetics (plastics, seat cover, etc)

bkelley

03-11-2010, 06:29 PM

I knew you'd get it eventually haha. Nice to hear you got it going, man. Makes me wonder if I'll need bigger jets for when I get my 426 kit in, though. The biggest jet I have in my Dynojet kit is 180, which is slightly smaller than a 205 Keihin.

slightlybent47

03-11-2010, 07:41 PM

That sounds great, I’m still waiting on Brandon to get back with me on what he has on hand. Sad thing is I have a jet kit somewhere but I can’t find it. Wouldn’t you know!!

clemsonteg

03-11-2010, 07:45 PM

Glad you got it. Still seems like you should toss in the 55 pilot and turn the screw in some to compensate. I would be afraid it would fall out that far out.

mineralgrey01gt

03-11-2010, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by clemsonteg
Glad you got it. Still seems like you should toss in the 55 pilot and turn the screw in some to compensate. I would be afraid it would fall out that far out.

actually still a good bit of thread in the screw, not loose at all. I was sure to check that. Im going to take it for a break in ride in the morning. Here is a quick pic of it, sorry for how crappy it looks right now, needs to be cleaned badly:

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv91/lilzilla2008/IMG_0389.jpg

mineralgrey01gt

03-11-2010, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by slightlybent47
That sounds great, I’m still waiting on Brandon to get back with me on what he has on hand. Sad thing is I have a jet kit somewhere but I can’t find it. Wouldn’t you know!!

Lol i know how it is to have parts laying around and you cant find them. I searched for parts for a few days during my 250r build. I wasnt expecting to go this high on jets but I guess it was needed