Is this an all around set up?

[Honda 250r 001]

I just took my rebuilt R for a spin today and it really dissappionted me. The powerband only seemed to be there over 1/2 throttle. Any where else it was gutless. Anyway. My set up is
CT 310 cylinder, national porting
CR 250 ignition
PWK 39 Carb
ESR Airbox eliminator
ESR TRX 5 Centermount pipe
Boyesen Rad valve
180 compression, (would like to stay with pump gas)

Is this a good all around set up? OR what do i need to change? get it midrange ported? Or can i get an all around port job?

[312R1]

Sound to me like you have jetting issues.

[IcutMetl]

I agree; the jetting on mine made a world of difference once I got it tuned in. I'm still on the stock cylinder too, with an airbox, midrange porting, a 38 A/S, Boyssen cage, factory ignition, and FMF pipe. My power starts at about 1/4 throttle and is real strong up thru most of the rev range.

[cdrookie]

almost sounds like the set up that was on mine when i bought it.

you're saying it doesn't have useable power below half throttle?

if so, i'd ditch the trx5 and put a sparks mx on there(or ct midrange). also put an airbox and uni filter on it.

[LONG-ROD]

I don't think his pipe is the problem.. sounds like electrical or jetting.. also you said it was a fresh rebuild.. did you heat cycle it.. was it properly broke in.. whats your plug gap set at ?

[jcs003]

Originally posted by LONG-ROD
I don't think his pipe is the problem.. sounds like electrical or jetting.. also you said it was a fresh rebuild.. did you heat cycle it.. was it properly broke in.. whats your plug gap set at ?

i agree. im having similiar issues. the weather is also a factor. maybe my piston is on backwards.lol but as stated. a bad CDI will cause confusion.

[jas250r]

something else beside jetting, you could try a cr fylwheel weight. i run a 13oz and that made quite a bit of difference.

[LONG-ROD]

I think I would go without the weight.. maybe lighten it if anything.. sometimes the wire going in to the plug boot needs to be stripped back..

[cdrookie]

i didn't think my 13oz weight made much difference.

lighten a cr flywheel?

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by cdrookie


lighten a cr flywheel?

I wouldnt mind trying it :D

But anyway. I Think I will ditch the boyesen rad valve and go with a v-force. Then work on jetting, and if i have money, one of neils "ultra midrange" port jobs.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by cdrookie
almost sounds like the set up that was on mine when i bought it.

you're saying it doesn't have useable power below half throttle?

if so, i'd ditch the trx5 and put a sparks mx on there(or ct midrange). also put an airbox and uni filter on it.

yes, meaning it is not on the pipe. I figured a all around set up would come on the pipe sooner than 1/2 throttle.

[machwon]

I think you have a good choice of parts. I would keep the 5 pipe and the rad valve, why spend more money on parts. More porting would help, but I think you would benefit from taking it to a good dyno shop. Fix the stumble off bottom and most likely to pick another 4-5hp. Most tuners struggle to find that last 10% without something to measure it, so it's usually money well spent. Otherwise post a picture of your plug and what jets are you using?

[machwon]

Computer froze, didn't realize I replied 3 times...

[machwon]

I think you have a good choice of parts. I would keep the 5 pipe and the rad valve, why spend more money on parts. More porting would help, but I think you would benefit from taking it to a good dyno shop. Fix the stumble off bottom and most likely to pick another 4-5hp. Most tuners struggle to find that last 10% without something to measure it, so it's usually money well spent. Otherwise post a picture of your plug and what jets are you using?

[Honda 250r 001]

thanks for the reply. I dont have it perfectly jetted yet because im still breaking it in. So the main is a little rich. The needle is on the middle slide, im thinking about going on leaner and seeing if that helps. Also dropping the main 2 sizes.

Around what size pilot jet should i be runnin? I had a 50 in, and it idled good, maybe a lil rich, then i put a 48 in, realizing it was too lean, then i put the 50 back in, and it wont idle now? I cleaned the carb but no luck.

[machwon]

The air screw should have an affect on the off idle response, if not the pilot is the wrong size. Turning the air screw out to 2.5/3 turns out should eventually creat a hesitation. Nothing wrong with being a size too big on th pilot either and I actually recommend being larger on the pilot for cooling during deacceleration. For the idle just turn the idle screw in more. DGH needle in the middle, K6 slide and nothing bigger than a 185 main should be a good place to start.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by machwon
The air screw should have an affect on the off idle response, if not the pilot is the wrong size. Turning the air screw out to 2.5/3 turns out should eventually creat a hesitation. Nothing wrong with being a size too big on th pilot either and I actually recommend being larger on the pilot for cooling during deacceleration. For the idle just turn the idle screw in more. DGH needle in the middle, K6 slide and nothing bigger than a 185 main should be a good place to start.

rite now i have a K7 slide, needle on middle clip, 50 pilot, airscrew 2 turns. and a 178 main.

[IcutMetl]

I found that when I put my motor back together and after break in, I was also really disappointed in it's performance. I had it jetted rich for break in of course, but it was really doggin'. I saw the biggest improvement from needle adjustments- it was like a night and day difference for me. Our motors are completely different, but I also had the best luck so far with the DGH needle. I found that main jet changes didn't affect anything other than 3/4 throttle and up, the pilot helped off idle to 1/4 range and a clean idle down when I let off the gas, but the needle was the biggest improvement all over.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by IcutMetl
I found that when I put my motor back together and after break in, I was also really disappointed in it's performance. I had it jetted rich for break in of course, but it was really doggin'. I saw the biggest improvement from needle adjustments- it was like a night and day difference for me. Our motors are completely different, but I also had the best luck so far with the DGH needle. I found that main jet changes didn't affect anything other than 3/4 throttle and up, the pilot helped off idle to 1/4 range and a clean idle down when I let off the gas, but the needle was the biggest improvement all over.

Ill work on jetting and see if it wakes it up, otherwise i might be trading it for a 450...

[cdrookie]

a v force reed cage is more upper rpm than the rad valve, don't change it. you carb is fine, and you won't see much improvement by going with a 38A/S. GET RID OF THAT PIPE!!

the cr ignition isn't the hot set up for technical riding cause you lose so much low rpm lugging ability, but it does rev alot faster. if i just rode trails i'd get rid of mine.

"ultra midrange" porting isn't the hot set up either. it'll scream in the mid/top but it'll cost you the lower rpm's. how do i know? my bike had McDizzy's ultra midrange porting. i had neil resleeve it to a 330 and he had to do a some low end porting to get the sleeve to match the cylinder ports.

do what you want, but you're not going to get alot of low rpm power with that pipe. a sparks mx, ct midrange, pt 89 race, or even an lrd would help tremendously.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by cdrookie
a v force reed cage is more upper rpm than the rad valve, don't change it. you carb is fine, and you won't see much improvement by going with a 38A/S. GET RID OF THAT PIPE!!

the cr ignition isn't the hot set up for technical riding cause you lose so much low rpm lugging ability, but it does rev alot faster. if i just rode trails i'd get rid of mine.

"ultra midrange" porting isn't the hot set up either. it'll scream in the mid/top but it'll cost you the lower rpm's. how do i know? my bike had McDizzy's ultra midrange porting. i had neil resleeve it to a 330 and he had to do a some low end porting to get the sleeve to match the cylinder ports.

do what you want, but you're not going to get alot of low rpm power with that pipe. a sparks mx, ct midrange, pt 89 race, or even an lrd would help tremendously.

So do you think if i switched just the pipe for a Sparks MX pipe, would I have more low end? Witout switching anything else?

See im not lookin for a woods machine. Its a mx/dunes machine. I just want the powerband to start at around 1/4 throttle.

[cdrookie]

absolutely.

i had a trx5 center mount originally. sold it cause i wanted to run an airbox. tried other pipes but liked the sparks mx the best. got a good deal on a standard mount trx5. rode with it for 1 day, got my *** kicked all day, took it off the next and sold it.

if you ride dunes all the time i'd say keep the esr, but if you ride any place there's a trail i'd ditch it in a heart beat.

jetting varies ALOT depending on where you are, i run a 195 main with a 50(or 52?) pilot. sparks and esr both liked the 195, the center mount liked a 200-205.

[Honda 250r 001]

will i loose much top end if i JUST switch to the sparks mx?

[cdrookie]

IMO the esr had a harder mid range hit, and SLIGHTLY more top end but it fell off quicker than the sparks. the sparks pulls way harder off idle and still pulls strong throughout the entire rpm range with a little more over rev. the sparks is kind of hard to find and usually not cheap though... i used a sparks silencer on both pipes.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by cdrookie
IMO the esr had a harder mid range hit, and SLIGHTLY more top end but it fell off quicker than the sparks. the sparks pulls way harder off idle and still pulls strong throughout the entire rpm range with a little more over rev. the sparks is kind of hard to find and usually not cheap though... i used a sparks silencer on both pipes.

i agree with ya on the esr, mine hits hard in the midrange. but thats about all it has... little power up above, and no power below...

Does anyone have a sparks MX pipe for sale?

[J.B.]

There is a nice one with the silencer on Ebay.

[Honda 250r 001]

Does anyone want to trade for a sparks mx or CT Midrange?

[1promodfan]

PM sent............

[LONG-ROD]

dude your pipe is not the problem.. i run a trx 9.. i run woods mx and dunes.. dont be a sissy about it and ride it.. its not a four stroke. you don't lug an R around.

[machwon]

I couldn't agree more, tune it, gear down, go higher compression, etc. for more bottom end, then decide if you don't like the pipe.



Originally posted by LONG-ROD
dude your pipe is not the problem.. i run a trx 9.. i run woods mx and dunes.. dont be a sissy about it and ride it.. its not a four stroke. you don't lug an R around.

[cdrookie]

people amaze me...:rolleyes: