450R shocks, fit?? Not on mine they don't

[Thumpin440ex]

Shocks showed up today, 450r's.. I am thinking, hell this will take no time.. Haha.. I was wrong.. They don't fit for S^&T.. 1 problem is in order to get them in position between the top mounting hole and the bottom a arm hole, is I have to drop the lower a arm out of the spindle.. So I thought lets try that, just pull it up with the spindle nut.. NOT.. Next. The top of the shocks doesn't even sit in the frame mount enough for me to get the bolt through.. In order to do that I would have to cut the tops of the shoulders on the shocks so they would fit into the top mounts of the bike... I thought these were a direct bolt in??. In my case not even close.... :( Up for sale they go... I do have a aftermarket set of a arms that were on a 250R, however, all the measurements match that of my 400 a arms...

Bike is 00 400ex

John

[jdog75]

they arent a direnct bolt on but they are the easiest to mod. all you need to do is grinnd a little aff the top and sides i bought mine already modded up and it still wasnt that easy you have to first bolt the bottoms and make sure the rezzy is pointing to the back while your bike is lifter it the front the try your best to get it in the top mount then tap it over with a hammer and up into thebolt hole by putting it on its wheels and standin/jumping on the bumper then bolt it up then your done.

[TRX01]

you can either grind the top of the shock mount down or do what i did and take a screw driver and hammer and knock the tac welded on nut off and it fits just fine

[Thumpin440ex]

Ok so then they def need to be modded to go onto the bike?? And app you guys are unbolting the bottom A arm, then pulling it in with the nut, or loading the bike to get the nut started.. My thing is then it seems as if the ARMS, bottomed out.. Like the ball joints are at there limits?? Won't this F^&K them up if your jumping, constantly having the a arms bottom out???


Thanks John

[lester985]

i do big big jumps and they work great for me but there is a how to thread on here when i got mine i said the same thing but i looked at for a few min grabbed a grinder and it about 20min to get them on its not hard and worth it

[grassman]

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=416587

[mineralgrey01gt]

Those arms won't work if they are 250r specific. The part that holds the bushings is too thick to go in the frame. I tried putting my stock ones of my 250r on my 400 and it was a no go

[Thumpin440ex]

The shocks them selves will fit into the mount on the a arm.. The top of the 450r shock would not fit into my frame mount on my bike..The tops of them are to long/tall and need to be cut down.. I have this figured out now... Now my issue is this, I am going to prob make another thread... My arms on there now have a slightly different angle on the ball joint ends vs the stock 400's.. If i put the R shocks on, with them being a half in longer, puts my ball joints on the arms maxed out, meaning they wont allow the arms to travel down any more. So in turn while the shocks still have more to open, the ball joints are holding it from letting the arms do so, in turn putting alot of stress on the joints.. I feel even with the stock 400 arms that this will be the same, with the ball joints maxed out.. I am going to look for a set of shocks with a eye to eye of 15 1/5.. I don't want to risk breaking a ball joint


John

[CJM]

Did you know the nut off the underside of the mount? You either knock it off or grind the shock. Grinding the shocks stupid tho b/c a bolt is much cheaper to replace. I did they bolted up fine

Basically I did this:
1. Unbolt old shocks while its on the ground.

2. Knock bolt off using cold chisel. Replaced with carriage bolts and a nut to secure plastics.

3. put a jackstand under the front bumper and raised it so the wheels were off the ground a bit

4. Put new shocks on and had to manipulate the arms a bit to get everything bolted in. HINT put the tops in first!

Should fit fine.

Take pics of what your issue is.

[Thumpin440ex]

Originally posted by CJM
Did you know the nut off the underside of the mount? You either knock it off or grind the shock. Grinding the shocks stupid tho b/c a bolt is much cheaper to replace. I did they bolted up fine

Basically I did this:
1. Unbolt old shocks while its on the ground.

2. Knock bolt off using cold chisel. Replaced with carriage bolts and a nut to secure plastics.

3. put a jackstand under the front bumper and raised it so the wheels were off the ground a bit

4. Put new shocks on and had to manipulate the arms a bit to get everything bolted in. HINT put the tops in first!

Should fit fine.

Take pics of what your issue is.


Would love to knock that nut off the fram, but it is fresh from powder, so I am not going to do that.. Check my post a few up.. I will grab some pics

John

[bkelley]

You can't even see the part of the frame where the nut is. Just knock it off, makes everything much easier.

[Thumpin440ex]

STOCK ARMS, NOTICE THE ANGLE OF THE ARMS, TO THE SPINDLES, BALL JOINT ANGLE.. Still had to persuade the stock shocks into themhttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/mangler0075/400ex%20build/230.jpg

NEW AARMS WITH THE STOCK SHOCK ON ONE SIDE, WITH OUT A SHOCK ON THE OTHER.. NOTICE THE SAME ANGLE OF THE ARMS, BOT DOWN ALL THE WAY..
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/mangler0075/400ex%20build/237.jpg

Close up of the stock shocks with the aftermarket arms

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/mangler0075/400ex%20build/232.jpg

Not even close to going in there(450 shock), even if I removed the nut on the under side of the mount
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/mangler0075/400ex%20build/233.jpg

450 shock
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/mangler0075/400ex%20build/235.jpg

450 shock in the bottom a arm
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/mangler0075/400ex%20build/236.jpg

I think I am going to need and get shorter shocks.. Like I said the stock arms needed persuading with the stock shocks, but I am thinking now if I add the 450 ones, esp with these arms that the ball joints will be over stressed. Even id i losen the spring locks and let the spings open up to often them, set the shocks to soft, still don't think it is going to squat it that much to even out the angle of the arms, to make the ball joints in the proper spot


John

[CJM]

Of course it will look like that, you dont have any load/weight on the bike-its sitting in the air.

Of course they are gonna be a bit tough to get in, the shock itself needs to be compressed a bit to put it on.

And you must either grind the shock down or knock that nut off and it will fit right on.

Unless you got some really funky a-arms or something this isnt making sense.

[Thumpin440ex]

So what you are trying to say is that even on the stock arms, the shocks will be extended to the point of locking the ball joints in the complete out position while there is no weight on the frame?? The A arms i bought have the same measurements as the 400 arms, but the bottom ball joints are at a different angle then the stock 400's arms.. You can clearly see it in the pics, first pic vs 2nd one.. Forgive me for being ignorant but this **** gets to me.. Just seems like to long of a shock to work, even with stock 400 arms.. I can't imagine it squating that much after it is back together, which the motor, swing and all should be back on this weekend..

John

[bkelley]

Considering hundreds of people have successfully installed 450r shocks on their EXs with stock arms, +1s and +2s, I think you'll be alright.

[Thumpin440ex]

Originally posted by bkelley
Considering hundreds of people have successfully installed 450r shocks on their EXs with stock arms, +1s and +2s, I think you'll be alright.

What would be the beni of a +1 or +2 shock, if the travel that the arms will go is limited by the ball joints?? I am not trying to argue, just wanting to know. I wouldn't think that a shock that is that much bigger will help if the arms are limited to how far they will move..

John

[bigbad400]

you can send them shocks in to gt thunder and have them resprung and revalved and they will sag alot more so you wont always be on the joints too. but with the weight of the quad on mine they dont sit sitff like that they sag a little and with me 135lbs on the quad it sags it down even more so i dont think its a problem anyhow. just be a little mean to it. they will fit. mine were a pain to put on too just use a rubber hammer. and grind on the top of the shock if you dont want to take that nut off.

[bigbad400]

with longer shocks you gain more travel when they are landed hard. yea if you land too hard you could break a ball joint if the shock didnt bottom first.

[Thumpin440ex]

Originally posted by bigbad400
with longer shocks you gain more travel when they are landed hard. yea if you land too hard you could break a ball joint if the shock didnt bottom first.

What I am talking about is the angle they are at now, even hanging there compared to the stock a arms.. Do you see how nasty the angle of the spindles to the ball joints on the arms are?? I am not worried about breaking from a hard landing, but after I leave the ground, the force of the shocks slaming out on the balljoints, cuz the joints have no further to go, the shock still wants to expand.

OK so I put a set of shocks that is say 17 inches from eye to eye.. I have to compress them into the mounts to fit.. They then have the arms pushed, bottomed out, due the ball joints not allowing them to go DOWN any further.. So the 1 inch of extra travel you picked up by going to a longer shock is compressed that much, due to the fact the arms will not let the bike sit higher( push the arms down further then stock, due to the ball joints not allowing it) Am I looking at this right?? My thing is I am not worried about the length, as much as the angle them spindles are compared to the ball joints.. I guess I will have to see the how it sits after I have the engine and all on it, then with me on it.. I am going to try and soften the shocks up also.. I just do not like the fact they look all jacked around like that... :)


John

[CJM]

Put some tires on it and sit on it and then look at the shocks and arms.

Its the same thing that happens with a double wishbone car/truck. With no load on them (IE it sitting on the ground with tires) they droop like crazy too.

Dont make me go out to my freezing garage, drag whats left of my busted EX out and take pics for you.

[Thumpin440ex]

yes please do, I will buy you a beer sometime :D .. Did you see the first pics I posted wit teh stock arms??? Doesn't look any where the same.. These freaking new arms have the ball joints in at a diff angle ????.. HONEST ??? THEN FOR YOU GUYS THAT LOOKED AT THE PICS.. YOUR SAYING YOU WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM RIDING THE BIKE LIKE THAT???

Thanks again guys, seriously for the input
John

[CJM]

Try this, put a pc of wood under each hub and lower it till it has tension on the hubs. Then see what it looks like, then get on and see what it looks like

TBH those non stock arms are the issue, even with the stock shocks they dont look like they work to well.

Perhaps I was a bit hasty before. Even so, droop close to that or like that is normal usually.

[Thumpin440ex]

Originally posted by CJM
Try this, put a pc of wood under each hub and lower it till it has tension on the hubs. Then see what it looks like, then get on and see what it looks like

TBH those non stock arms are the issue, even with the stock shocks they dont look like they work to well.

Perhaps I was a bit hasty before. Even so, droop close to that or like that is normal usually.


Na man not at all on the hastyness.. I am going to wait till I get the motor back on it(friday hopefullY) It is coming back from the shop. Then I can put the swing arm and all on, then see where I am at.. Yah def not liking the angles on the arms vs the ball joints... They look like they were on a 250R that had short shocks... If I could get a set of shocks that was a half inch shorter then stockers it would be perfect.. Do you know how the 450R shocks come apart???


John

[racer 557]

man this is a 10-15 min fix youll be fine they ride great shoot i think the 450r shocks i had on my 06 400ex rode better than my triple rate works on my 450r now

its easy trust me if i was 14 when i did this i think you can and stick say adk like a 50-75 pound weight where motor is i think that around how much it weighs stick a jack stand where swingarm conects and get on and see if it drops


trust me its well worth it snowshoe gncc was a breeze with these untill i got behind a slow person and couldnt pass
people say its one of the harder races but i liked that track didnt break one thing and wasnt tired

[dustin_j]

Originally posted by Thumpin440ex
Yah def not liking the angles on the arms vs the ball joints... They look like they were on a 250R that had short shocks... If I could get a set of shocks that was a half inch shorter then stockers it would be perfect.. Do you know how the 450R shocks come apart???


John

You are correct to be concerned. I would not listen to those telling you to just compress the shock and ride. If the shock is too long, your ball joints determine the amount of down travel (like you previously stated); this will increase ball joint wear and chance of breakage. Like they said, it will work...for awhile.

You SHOULD get shorter shocks or have those shocks shortened. Also, you should check the compressed length while you are at it; if this is too short your frame will be the limit for your up travel.

What are those a-arms off of? Not sure what kind of riding you're looking to do, but they might not allow very much travel on your 400.

[Thumpin440ex]

Originally posted by dustin_j
You are correct to be concerned. I would not listen to those telling you to just compress the shock and ride. If the shock is too long, your ball joints determine the amount of down travel (like you previously stated); this will increase ball joint wear and chance of breakage. Like they said, it will work...for awhile.

You SHOULD get shorter shocks or have those shocks shortened. Also, you should check the compressed length while you are at it; if this is too short your frame will be the limit for your up travel.

What are those a-arms off of? Not sure what kind of riding you're looking to do, but they might not allow very much travel on your 400.


Thanks, you see exactly what I mean.. The arms are off a 250R, I think def had shorter shocks on it.. While all the measurements are the same, the bottom angle of the joints are diff then the 400ex's.. I do alot of trail riding, but in the trails comes, jumps, in the fields are bigger humps... WHERE CAN I HAVE SHOCKS SHORTENED.. Better yet how do they come apart.. I have all the stuff I need to do the work, shorten the internals of them, reassemble, recharge them.. I think I am just going to put the stock lower arms back on it, run the 450 shocks... Even the stock 400ex shocks seems to be long for the stock arms, but atleast the ball joints are at a nice angle...

Thanks John

[mineralgrey01gt]

thats odd though on the a-arms. It shouldnt be like that. I never heard of TT or drag a-arms before which would be the only 2 reasons to have shorter shocks that i can think of. That is an extreme angle on those ball joints.

[dustin_j]

Originally posted by Thumpin440ex
WHERE CAN I HAVE SHOCKS SHORTENED.. Better yet how do they come apart.. I have all the stuff I need to do the work, shorten the internals of them, reassemble, recharge them..

Typically the shock bodies and/or shafts are shortened on a lathe to stay true. Any company that rebuilds/revalves should be able to do this. C&D, GT Thunder, etc... You'll have to measure extended and compressed lengths to determine how/what to shorten. There is some good reading on GT Thunder's website on how to setup your suspension that will help you out.

Do some google searches to find out how to take them apart, the pictures will help more than my words. Dirtbike and atv shocks are very similar, so you can pretty much follow the same process.

[jasonkazz]

Here's a pic of my 450 shocks on a widening kit. Stock a-arms just moved them out 2 1/4", this kit also lowered the front a bit. I knocked the nut off the frame, used a button head bolt and had to grind just a tiny bit off the back side of the shock so it wouldn't hit the frame. Hope the pic helps.

[troutman561]

It is definitely not a hard fix to fit them in. I took a little off of the shocks and a tiny bit off the frame.. Took no time at all.. And my balls joints never exploded either..

On a side not, I sold my 450r shocks 2 years ago when I needed money and want to get another set now.. Let me know if you end up selling them.

[Thumpin440ex]

I am going to add a spacer to each one of the shocks, to get the bike down some.. I have the shocks apart now, it was pretty simple, the spacers should be finished tom, back together the shocks go.. They are 1 inch spacers, so the shocks will be 1 inch shorter( should not be a issue with the riding I do) Also should put the ball joints at a much better angle...



John