Considering a 250 Raptor

[number12]

Hey Guys,
My son is moving from the 90 class to something bigger. I was thinking of either the 300ex Honda or 250 raptor. One of the things I liked about the 300 EX is the fact that I could put on suspension parts from the bigger bikes for a big improvement in suspension. Do you know if any of the suspension parts for the bigger bikes will fit the 250? Has anyone had both of these machines and could give me a comparions?

Thanks.

[etondaddy]

Put the two side by side and you tell me witch one will get your rider ready for a 450.....????. The 250 is a mini frame with a big a** motor in it........ 300ex is the way to go. JMO


Mike Kozura

[quadracer707]

Raptor our choice, light weight lots of power out of the box. Now it depends on what you are going to do with these 2 quads. Recreational, trail or racing??

Bad things about raptor, I believe 249cc you need to put a crank in it & stroke it for 300cc. Not as many aftermarket parts for the raptor as the honda, but they are getting there. We are building a race engine for raptor now, but on a scale of 1-10 on how far we are pushing the engine now, is about a 7ish. We arent stroking it yet!! Waiting for the little guy to learn a little of power at a time. He is just 13 & more concerned about him learning to ride, then as the season goes on we will give him more POWER, just my opinion though,

Ken

[number12]

Thanks for the info/ opinions guys. We will be using this exclusively as a MX bike. Any recreational or trail riding will be done on another quad. He is pretty experienced at riding. he has 5-6 yers behind the bars, 2.5 years racing. He seems to have hit that growth spurt right now. He has grown about 7 inches and gained 20 lbs in the last year, now 5 foot 7 and 125 lbs without gear. His only experience with a clutch is very limited and on a dirt bike but i think he is ready for it.

[hwf-racing]

I just bought my 9year old a Raptor, Mike makes a good point because the Raptor And my sons Apex 100 are very close in wheelbase. It's a little small however, the Raptor at our local race track is a beast! it will stay neck & neck with the 300s. In a couple years the Raptor will be our choice. It's light, handles great, and can make a lot of power out of the engine. Rage has made some serious power, check it out JMO. Derek

[john willhoite]

we really like ours, and have put a bunch of money into it.

If i could start over I would start with a honda.

I think they are just a lot cheaper.
You can buy a nice built used one for cheap.

[number12]

Thanks for the info guys. You are bringing up some good points. I might have to head back to the showroom and get him to set on both of them.

[etondaddy]

Originally posted by number12
Thanks for the info guys. You are bringing up some good points. I might have to head back to the showroom and get him to set on both of them.
Honda....Honda......Honda..........the built motors are twisting out of them mini frames there in.....give Yamaha a couple of years to fix the frames then if there still around get one.........:devil: or you could call Lonestar and get a new frame for a grand........ and I still can't see how they would be legal in a production class with a aftermarket frame......



Mike Kozura

[mxdad423]

My opinion is the Raptor, and yes I have one. Here's the deal, the raptor is 100 lbs lighter, and more power and tourque than the Honda right out of the box, I have rode both and it takes some mod's to the Honda to run with the raptor out of the box and thats already been proven. Yes the raptor does have some frame issue's but so do the Honda's. Almost every one of the Honda's that get rode hard will crack the frame on the lower frame rail right in front of where the foot peg is, and I have also seen alot of them crack up on the top of the frame under the seat, I don't care wich one of the brands you buy or what CC it is, if you are racing it, you are going to have frame trouble's, why do you think they make gussett kits for all of them, you start putting power to them and airing them out, they are going to crack and break, just the same as any vehicle that is raced. The Raptor does have a smaller build to it compared to the Honda, but for the younger kids, 13 to 15 they are alot more manuverable. Raptor 250 with a good engine builder, and a good suspension is the future of that class, At least I think so anyway. Now that there is alot of aftermarke parts becoming available you will start seeing alot more of them on the track, you got to remember they haven't been around that long, the honda has been and honda has made absolutley no changes to better there machine in a long time. Honda has fell back in time the last few years on all there machine's where Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawi just keep going forward and belive me there are alot of people that will agree with me on that.

Kevin Smitley

[mxdad423]

Oh yea if you do go with the Raptor and are going to race it and want to cure you frame issues, here is how, for a whopping 120.00. http://www.atv.com/news/raptor-250-gusset-kit-from-teixeira-tech-1548.html


Kevin Smitley

[mxdad423]

Originally posted by john willhoite
we really like ours, and have put a bunch of money into it.

If i could start over I would start with a honda.

I think they are just a lot cheaper.
You can buy a nice built used one for cheap.

Thats a great looking machine, GREAT JOB on that build. Hey I see yo have the Harbor Freight tire changer in the backround, I have one of those to, that has been the best 34.00 I have ever spent. LOL....

Kevin Smitley

[john willhoite]

I second the opinion that all frames will crack.
We didnt know our motor mounts were cracked untill we did the full tear down.

The Texierea (sp?) gusset kit was just the ticket and priced good as well. You can see pictures of us installing it in my rebuild thread.

The tire changer has saved me alot of cussing!

[etondaddy]

Kevin's just a Honda hater...........:devil: :devil: my point is they have to go to a full frame machine sooner or later......... how many years was Honda on top of the class........ I guess the Apex liquid cooled 250 will be next.....with a Yamaha power plant........;) ;) we'll stick with the old school Honda until we go 450.......



Mike Kozura

[mxdad423]

Originally posted by etondaddy
Kevin's just a Honda hater...........:devil: :devil: my point is they have to go to a full frame machine sooner or later......... how many years was Honda on top of the class........ I guess the Apex liquid cooled 250 will be next.....with a Yamaha power plant........;) ;) we'll stick with the old school Honda until we go 450.......



Mike Kozura

Yea I'm not a Honda fan, never really was, they just never impressed me. But when they quit moving forward in technology that just gave me more reason. Hey these machines are just like cars, Ford, Chevy, Dodge, it's all in what you like and what you have luck with. We will be sticking with the Yamaha in the 300 class unless Suzuki comes out with something then we might switch depending on what they bring out. But once it's 450 time Brandon will be on the Suzuki. Hey Mike, Love you man.......LOL..

Kevin Smitley

[mxdad423]

Originally posted by john willhoite
I second the opinion that all frames will crack.
We didnt know our motor mounts were cracked untill we did the full tear down.

The Texierea (sp?) gusset kit was just the ticket and priced good as well. You can see pictures of us installing it in my rebuild thread.

The tire changer has saved me alot of cussing!

I know what you meen, I just tore down his 90 last week and ran into the same thing, when I took the engine out the one engine mount fell onto the ground, I go over is quad every week and had no idea it was broke. Racing is hard on frames, no matter what brand it is. The smaller Raptor frame is perfect for Brandon, he's not really tall so it fits him perfect. I think other than the few small frame problems they built a heck of a machine.

Kevin Smitley

[etondaddy]

Originally posted by mxdad423
Yea I'm not a Honda fan, never really was, they just never impressed me. But when they quit moving forward in technology that just gave me more reason. Hey these machines are just like cars, Ford, Chevy, Dodge, it's all in what you like and what you have luck with. We will be sticking with the Yamaha in the 300 class unless Suzuki comes out with something then we might switch depending on what they bring out. But once it's 450 time Brandon will be on the Suzuki. Hey Mike, Love you man.......LOL..

Kevin Smitley
How bout it Honda hater you a copy on me.......come on back.......lol.
I just looked 19 of the top 20 quads in schoolboy jr. were Honda's........ Honda has a great motor why change it......it's not broke. Sparks, TC, Scott Cain, Hetrick took over were they left off.........:devil: :devil:



Mike Kozura

[mxdad423]

Originally posted by etondaddy
How bout it Honda hater you a copy on me.......come on back.......lol.
I just looked 19 of the top 20 quads in schoolboy jr. were Honda's........ Honda has a great motor why change it......it's not broke. Sparks, TC, Scott Cain, Hetrick took over were they left off.........:devil: :devil:



Mike Kozura

10-4 I got a copy on you.......LOL.... Well they never had to change it because there was nothing being built to compete with it. Think about it, what was there to build for that class other than the Honda? The Blaster was it, and we all know that they were no where near a race machine. Now there's a new kid on the block and once all the after market stuff is out there and the TC's, Rage, CT, ECT. engines are bolted on, Honda is either going to have to step up with some changes or the next time the top 19 out of 20 will say YAMAHA, not HONDA.........
:devil: :devil: You know if people didn't know us when reading some of our post's, they would think we didn't like each other....LOL Hey what the H*ll you doing on the Raptor section anyway, shouldn't you be over there with them there HONDA guys? LOL....Just kidding,

Kevin Smitley

[etondaddy]

Yea your right about no competion....I thought of that after I posted it.......lol.

Once again we agree to disagree......... I think your full of crap and there never going to make it.........if they get there sh*t together it will take a couple of years.....we'll be on a 450 Kawasaki.......



Mike Kozura

[mxdad423]

Originally posted by etondaddy
Yea your right about no competion....I thought of that after I posted it.......lol.

Once again we agree to disagree......... I think your full of crap and there never going to make it.........if they get there sh*t together it will take a couple of years.....we'll be on a 450 Kawasaki.......



Mike Kozura


give them 1 to 2 more years and they will be loading up the podium, them there Honda's will be in the crowd sayin, Da*m I should of bought a Yamaha......LOL.... Glad to here you are finally going to give up on them Honda's when you get the the 450's, See you are getting smarter the older you get.:devil: :devil: Man this is getting DEEP......LOL

Kevin Smitley

[etondaddy]

Originally posted by mxdad423
give them 1 to 2 more years and they will be loading up the podium, them there Honda's will be in the crowd sayin, Da*m I should of bought a Yamaha......LOL.... Glad to here you are finally going to give up on them Honda's when you get the the 450's, See you are getting smarter the older you get.:devil: :devil: Man this is getting DEEP......LOL

Kevin Smitley
No you wait ...........I heard about the 250 Apex with a liquid cooled Yamaha bike moter in it........look out.


Mike Kozura

[mxdad423]

Originally posted by etondaddy
No you wait ...........I heard about the 250 Apex with a liquid cooled Yamaha bike moter in it........look out.


Mike Kozura


The Apex will never make it. DRR and Dinli both tried that already and they failed, Apex will do the same, I can almost garuntee you that. Once you get into the bigger quads the Apex's, DRR, ect. will never be able to compete with the big 4, it's just not going to happen, I may eat those words one day, but I seriously dout it. Those brands better just stick to the mini's.

Kevin Smitley

[tt racer]

I agree Kevin 100 percent! Im not a honda hater but wouldnt you think that honda would invest some r$d in the sport quad program. I mean come on you guys why change a good thing, give me a break! Honda has sold tons of quads over the past 10 years and cant muster up anything high tech for the schoolboy classes and dont get me started on the oh so great trx 450r. Im sticking up for the customer we deserve better from a company that sells as many as it does! Yes some may say the name sells, they dont have to update well good for you ill go else where and get a machine that 2010 customers deserve.

[mxdad423]

Originally posted by tt racer
I agree Kevin 100 percent! Im not a honda hater but wouldnt you think that honda would invest some r$d in the sport quad program. I mean come on you guys why change a good thing, give me a break! Honda has sold tons of quads over the past 10 years and cant muster up anything high tech for the schoolboy classes and dont get me started on the oh so great trx 450r. Im sticking up for the customer we deserve better from a company that sells as many as it does! Yes some may say the name sells, they dont have to update well good for you ill go else where and get a machine that 2010 customers deserve.


Yea I know what you mean, like I said I have never really been a Honda fan but, at one time they were the machine to have, but as of late they just don't seem like they care anymore and there machines are becoming dinosours while the other big 3 are advancing more and more. I don't know maybe they just really don't care anymore, heck almost all of the big 4 dropped most of there pro's on the ATV's, Honda dropped them all, Honda will not have 1 factory rider this year on an ATV. That is just wierd.

Kevin Smitley

[mxdad423]

Originally posted by etondaddy
Put the two side by side and you tell me witch one will get your rider ready for a 450.....????. The 250 is a mini frame with a big a** motor in it........ 300ex is the way to go. JMO


Mike Kozura


Hey Mike, just so you know, there's not as much differance in size at all between the chassis, I got a bare Raptor 250 frame and a bare 300ex frame setting on the floor of the garage, I measured them this morning......The 300ex is 3" longer in overall length and 2" higher in overall height, thats it......Not as much differance as you thought is it? I think it's just the low profile of the Raptor (like the YFZ450) that makes it look alot smaller, remember this machine was brought out with racing in mind, the 300ex wasn't. Ok just thought I would yank your wires again a littel bit....:devil: :devil: :devil:

Kevin Smitley

[tt racer]

Not to mention the 300ex looks like he!! nobody on the planet can say the 300 ex looks good or even close to the raptor 250. I should post a pic of my 08 se orange to remind all the 300ex owners what a real race quad looks like! Lol! Relax guys its my girlfriends im looking at getting a yfz R their i go again a yfz R looks and performs way better than a trx 450r sorry i gotta stop.:devil:

[etondaddy]

Originally posted by tt racer
sorry i gotta stop.:devil: Yea I'd stop to if I was making a a** of myself......hahahahahahahahah



Mike Kozura

[tt racer]

Easy dad its all in fun alot of facts tho:)

[etondaddy]

Yea I guess we'll see......I got over 10g's in a Honda..... that's what we're runnin for the next three years.....lol.


Our new 08' white plastic with the red metal flake Gen-x hood looks like a race quad.......:devil: to bad all the Raptors will see is the back of it.......lol.



Mike Kozura

[tt racer]

Im sure it does look good dad and good luck this year racing is so addictive and costly. I would be further ahead in life if i hadnt raced for 10 yrs but most of the time i dont regret it. I love quads and the people around the sport ive made some good friends and its brought friends and families closer and you cant put a price on that! Go yamaha!

[etondaddy]

What's up with this............:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Biography i work for honda, and enjoy motorsports
Location ohio
Interests racing tt and flattrack, fishing
Occupation m/c oper. for honda



Mike Kozura

[Lquad71]

i normally ride a 450 but if you know how to ride one of the 250's you can compete in the 450 beginner class...my brother does it and podiums..its a bone stock raptor..just tires and bars..IT is just so easy to move around..i havent rode the 300 but the 250 is just so easy..and for an aircooled 250 it has decent power.

[tt racer]

Dad to answer your question im a cnc oper for a different company and if honda deserved props on the waaaaay outdated sport quads i would give it. As i stated before i am not a hater on any brand and love this sport very much. As big as honda is and considering the volume of ex models they have sold in the last 10 yrs how can anyone not agree they could have put some r&d in most of their sport models! Ok let me put it this way lets ask your son who seems to be a competetive racer do you want a race ready honda 250f sport quad or do you want a 300 ex and have your dad spend thousands of dollars on it to get it competitive? I just dont get why a big company cant give the young racer a race ready 250f quad, i dont wanna hear economy blah blah it should have been done years ago! As you can tell i am a yamaha fan they push the envelope on peformance and looks so i invest in their products, i am eager to see the long over due trx 450r and might own one on down the road but well see about that.:rolleyes: