87 250r suspension...what do ya think?

[250rpilot]

i am finishing up my rebuild on my 87 250r. i am putting on a -1.5 swingarm, and +2+1 a-arms. is that gonna be too much weight on the rear? my wheelbase will basically be the same, but the weight will be shifted back 2 inches. before this, it was stock suspension, i couldnt get the front end in the air unless i sat on the grab bar, and dumped the clutch, and i had so much tirespin, i could spin through 3rd gear on the road (blacktop). i have a delta force reed cage and 21cc cool head, and fmf sst pipe w/power core 2 silencer. the rest is stock. i am tired of losing drag races with this quad in the coal pits, because i spin till i hit 4th gear, sometimes 5th.

do you think this will solve my problems????

i am 6'1" and 205 lbs with gear also.

sounds good ...what for a motor ?

[mental1]

The shorter swing will make it easier to get the front up. I went and looked at an 86 with a shorter swing arm and the guy said you have to ride it with your weight forward. The guy might trade me for the 400ex, but I can't decide if I'm willing to let go of it, I guess I'm just to used to the 4 stroke thing now but havin' a 250R again would be awsome.

[250rpilot]

stock 87 motor, bored 20 over, with the rest of the mods listed in original post.

[Evan]

Im interested in how it works out. I have a simliar setup, mods in my sig with stock s-arm, and it wont hook for nothing.

[AndrewRRR]

If you are drag racing why do you have a -1.5 swingarm? Do you TT race also? If all you do is drag i'd get a longer one. I have a +4 on my R and it works great for drag and I can still ride trails (although you can't steer with the rear wheels as much as stock).

[tants]

what kinda rear tires you got...?

[TRX_Thumper]

i would try gearing and tires before resorting to the shorter swingarm..

[250rpilot]

well, i finally got her done, well done enuff to ride it up the street and back. i havent figured out if i like the swingarm yet or not, only rode for 5 mins or so, (cant piss off the neighbors or they will call the cops) but i cant seem to get my camber set to zero degrees with these new a-arms (boss racing +2+1) i have like 2-3 degrees of negative camber, im wondering what that will do to my handling on the trails and the mx track.

i also changed from 20" holeshot xc, to 22" holeshot xct on itp c-series 10 inch rims front and rear. they are heavy, but they look great. sorry no pics yet

[AndrewRRR]

2-3 degrees neg camber sounds about right for MX riding.

[Str8Wicked]

why would you get a shorter swing arm. On a 2 stroke wouldn't you have problems keeping the front down. I have problems keeping the front down on my friends two strokes as it is and they are running stock size swing arms. A few of my friends have +6 arms for drags only. Just wondering...

[250rpilot]

for some reason i couldnt get traction to save my butt on this thing, even with brand new tires, i could literally spin through third gear on the paved road. and if i revved it up and dumped the clutch on the road, the front end wouldnt come up more than a foot. dont get me wrong, i dont want a wheelie machine, i just want some traction in the coal pits where i drag my friends, and always lose! i have the fastest quad out of about 20 of my friends, and they all beat me in the drags. take it to the track, and thats a different story...


heres a pic of the rims i bought, not on my quad, but they are the rims... what do you think of these?

[Evan]

those wheels look trick. Where did ya get em?

I have the same problem you have, wont hook for crap. Keep us updated on how it hooks with the swingarm shorter, Im am proably gonna get one for MX.

[AndrewRRR]

If you have traction problems and wheelie problems why are you going shorter with the swingarm?
shorter swingarm= bike roates and turns easier, hooks up less, tires spin easier
longer swingarm= bike hooks up better, doesn't wheelie as easy

I couldn't launch my R with the stock swingarm, it would wheelie with the good paddles or spin like crazy with the short ones. Once I got a +4 I could launch it no problem.
Also bigger wheels (10" diamater vs 8") spin more since you don't have the sidewall flex to help you hook up. This is why drag slicks have so much sidewall.
I'd say get a longer swingarm, a shorter one will just amplify the problems you are having.

[250rpilot]

andrewrrr....

i have heard the same thing about going longer on this and other forums, but everyone was always talking about sand riding. all i have here is mud and rocks, and the guys at east coast atv (they have their own race team) tell me to go shorter for more traction. could it just be the terrain difference making such a problem??

also, since i have bigger rims ( i was using stock 9" before with 20 inch tires, not 8") i bought 22" tires to try, so that will give me more sidewall for flex- you are absolutely right about the flex issue with lo-pro tires.

i bought the rims at my local dealer, they ordered them from parts unlimited, fronts were 65 a piece, backs were 70 a piece.

i have to wait for all of this friggin snow to melt so i can try my setup out, if i dont like it i still have my original swingarm to put back on.

[DEAL]

Shorter swingarm - Quad hooks up better, Turns quicker , wheelies easier
Longer - Hooks up less, harder to wheelie, takes longer to turn....

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by FreeStylexrider
Shorter swingarm - Quad hooks up better, Turns quicker , wheelies easier
Longer - Hooks up less, harder to wheelie, takes longer to turn....

Hooks up less??? U might wanna tell that to the drag guys with the +12" swingarms. lol
If i tried launching with my stock swingarm or a shorter than stock one, i'd flip over backwards so quick it wouldn't be funny.

[250rpilot]

once again andrewrrr, you are running sand paddles on sand. i think the terrain has alot to do with it. with sand, you will dig in if you have too much weight on the back, correct? on dirt the opposite is true. am i wrong in thinking this way? not flaming, just very curious now.

freestyle...what type of terrain do you ride on in canada???

[Evan]

Exactly, sand tires in sand hook really good. Take your bike AndrewRRR and put holeshots on it and ride in grass/dirt, with your +4 s-arm, you will not be hooking up. Its simple, for the same reason, when TT racers cant get traction on the tracks, they narrow the bike, then it gets traction. I race MX, I ride on dirt, in the holeshot I can not hook for crap with a 86 length s-arm. You can littlerally do anything you want but it will not hook, it wont even pull a wheelie unless ur in 3rd and pop the clutch, even then u have to yank on the bars to get it to come up.

[250rpilot]

yep x-rider, thats exactly the problem!

[ESR250R]

i dunno i had to pull up on my bars in 3rd gear to get my 86 to wheelie but with my lrd ported cylinder (ported for bottom end) i was able to wheelie in 4th gear pretty easily with a 86 swingarm. i am switching to a 89 length swingarm very soon so it will probably get only better. i also have trouble getting traction with my 86 length swingarm but i would still do very good on holeshots (except when i accidently ran into the gate).


so did the 89 length swingarm help any?

[250rpilot]

i dont know yet, i gotta wait for all this white crap to melt, then i can break in my new top end, and find out for sure

[mental1]

A shorter swing arm will put your weight over the rear wheels thus shifting the weight bias towards the back of the quad which will make it hook up better and make the front seem lighter making wheelies easier. The pro's run '88 length swingarms for the traction advantage over the ever so slightly longer '86-'87 length swing arm. And on an '86-'87 250R getting +2+1 Aarms will move the weight bias evne aliitle farther towards the back. **** I wish I never sold my '86

[AndrewRRR]

Then it sounds like the problem lies in lack of traction, not chassis problems (swingarm length). I understand that getting a shorter swingarm moves the tires underneath you more so you can get more weight on the rear tires, but can't you get tires that will grip more where you ride? What type of earth is it? The TT guys use shorter swingarms but it doesn't seem like they can hook up at all, they take corners sideways with the rear tires spinning like mad (of course, they do design them to do that). lol. Guess it depends on your terrain. I'm traction-spoiled :p

[250rpilot]

andrew, i've tried everything from turf tamers to holeshot xc's in 20 inch size. ive tried gearing changes, ive ried different methods of slipping the clutch. i think this is my last resort!!

and yes, you are spoiled!! lol j/k

i wish i didnt have to spend two hours cleaning the black slime off of my quad when i got home from the coal pits, and i could just blow off the dust like you duners!!

[AndrewRRR]

Coal pits... damn. What's that like, gravel? I think the holeshot XC's are pretty hard compound compared to the MX.
What setups are your friends running that they are holeshotting you with? Can you run a semi-paddle like pro wedge II's?
Yeah, sand is a lot easier to clean off, except when you have any type of moisture or grease or oil on your bike, then the sand dries to it and you have sandpaper. You clench your teeth everytime you feel that crunching-grinding sound when you work your brakes, levers, etc. haha

[250rpilot]

riding in coal pits can range from being rough rockt trails, to really fine powder. an all terrain tire is a must. my buddies ride warriors, blasters, and a z-400. they can all take me BIG TIME on the holeshot. hehehe, till i hit fourth gear and get some traction!!! then, its see ya later!

[AndrewRRR]

What type of tires do your friends run? Maybe you should run those, or feather your clutch a little more. lol

[250rpilot]

one warrior has realtors, all of the rest have holeshots

i start out in second gear, and feather the snot outta my clutch.

there is just no weight back there

[Bean]

Honda changed the chassi in 88 for a reason, more traction and less spinouts, shorter swingarms will hookup better because the weight is farther back, the reason for +6in swingarms is them motors would toss you on your @ss with a -2in

[250rpilot]

well i finally rode the damn thing. if you guys had the same problems i had, i definatley recommend the -1 swingarm and the +2+1 a-arms. what a difference!!!! tons of traction, steers nice, jumps nice. i love it!!

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by AndrewRRR
Hooks up less??? U might wanna tell that to the drag guys with the +12" swingarms. lol
If i tried launching with my stock swingarm or a shorter than stock one, i'd flip over backwards so quick it wouldn't be funny.


That is exactly the reason for the +12 swingarm. Drag bikes have a lot of power (duh) and are very likely to lift the front wheels off the ground. To counter this, you get an extended swingarm to put more weight on the front tires. The negative aspect is that it puts less weight on the rear tires, which results in less traction. The proper length swingarm is one that will just barely keep the front wheels on the ground. Any longer than that and you are just losing traction.

I guarentee, two people running stock 400EX with the same tires, only one of them had a +12 swingarm, the extended swingarm would lose the drag race every time. The only reason for an extended swingarm is to keep the front wheels on the ground, not for traction.

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
That is exactly the reason for the +12 swingarm. Drag bikes have a lot of power (duh) and are very likely to lift the front wheels off the ground. To counter this, you get an extended swingarm to put more weight on the front tires. The negative aspect is that it puts less weight on the rear tires, which results in less traction. The proper length swingarm is one that will just barely keep the front wheels on the ground. Any longer than that and you are just losing traction.

I guarentee, two people running stock 400EX with the same tires, only one of them had a +12 swingarm, the extended swingarm would lose the drag race every time. The only reason for an extended swingarm is to keep the front wheels on the ground, not for traction.

Agreed, but nobody is going to put a +12 swingarm on a stock 400ex. It doesn't need one.
I had to go with a +4 (and soon I'll need a +8) because if I launched in the powerband I'd end up on my back with a 250r laying on top of me :devil