oil

[trx400 rider]

ok i normally use honda oil but i had laying around some pennzoil sea 10w40 oil even tho its not honda oil its car oil will it mess up my quad

[trx400 rider]

can any one help me

[k4f5x0r]

you didn't even wait 15 minutes :rolleyes:

[trx400 rider]

yea man i know im just trying to get this done so if any one can help that would be great

[bmxican345]

i use shell rotella

[KXRida]

Originally posted by bmxican345
i use shell rotella

X2 on that. Rotella T or Maxima.

[beastlywarrior]

pretty much i wouldnt use it it might destroy your clutch

[rooster300ex]

yea never use car oil. goto auto zone or o'rilleys and get the castrol or valvoline atv/motorcycle oil for wet clutches. On the front of the bottle of the valvoline four-stroke it says wet clutch protection. This is pretty much the cheapest priced wet clutch oil i've found.

[400exrider707]

Well since he has a 450R he can indeed use synthetic car oil in his motor side, since the oil is separate from the transmission oil.

Use whatever you want for a good synthetic oil in your motor side, but I still prefer ATV specific oils myself. I always ran Klotz 10-40 in my motor side and for the transmission side I used Honda red bottle two stroke tranny fluid. Helped with those false neutrals too...

[beastlywarrior]

ive also found that the basic cheap oil from wal mart in the blue container works its like $1 a quart i use it in all my pitbikes and as spare for my quad and ive never had clutch issues but any regular oil is bad

[ryan243]

car oils have different molys in them...you need to stay away from them in any atv or motorcycle...its called car oil and motorcycle oil for a reason, they are made specific

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by ryan243
car oils have different molys in them...you need to stay away from them in any atv or motorcycle...its called car oil and motorcycle oil for a reason, they are made specific

Try reading and learning before posting information that isn't 100% accurate.

Honda sells a ATV specific oil at their dealers with molybdenum in it specifically for the 450 motors, as the motor and transmission have separate oil reserves. You CAN run the moly synthetics in the motor side of the CRF450's and trx450's.

It is not recommended for other atv's like 400ex's where the motor oil also lubes the transmission side.

MOLY IS GOOD FOR LUBE! Which is bad for clutches, as it impregnates into the clutch fibers and causes premature wear. But when you have a 450R with separate oils, it's ok to run.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by beastlywarrior
ive also found that the basic cheap oil from wal mart in the blue container works its like $1 a quart i use it in all my pitbikes and as spare for my quad and ive never had clutch issues but any regular oil is bad

I use that oil for break-in all the time, because it's cheap and I can run the motor on the stand for 5-10 minutes, drain it and repeat to get good flushes on the motor.

[ryan243]

theres really no need to act like that. i worked at a honda dealership and although you can run the car oil in the motor side none of the mechanics would suggest that in their own bikes. im not trying to start anything with anybody, just putting in my two cents so please dont insult my intelligence. if im wrong tell me im wrong but please dont act like that

[trx400 rider]

so it will not hurt my quad correct

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by ryan243
theres really no need to act like that. i worked at a honda dealership and although you can run the car oil in the motor side none of the mechanics would suggest that in their own bikes. im not trying to start anything with anybody, just putting in my two cents so please dont insult my intelligence. if im wrong tell me im wrong but please dont act like that

I apologize for coming off like that, but if you worked at a Honda ATV/dirtbike shop you should know full well about the Honda oil with Molybdenum in it correct?

I agree running an ATV specific oil is probably not a bad idea, but there is no reason he can not run a synthetic oil that is intended for use in a car. It would be better than running a non synthetic by far.

I already stated once it was OK to run, and then you told him to stay away. It wasn't directed at just you either, other people are saying its bad for it, when indeed it is not.

I will repeat again though, I would still use an ATV specific oil, but it is OK to use something else...

[SRH]

wtf the manufactuers all have a suggested api rating most japanese are sj or sg so regardless of whether its ok for a wet clutch or not you need to check the api rating , american cars and japanese cars and motorcycles take diff api ratings...using the cheap walmart oil will eat your clutch up and leave your motor full of nasty sludge, as far as all that moly nonsense as long as its in line with the api rating and ok for the application idk wtf you guys are arguing about

i think most oils lose most of ther viscosity after a certain temp...that most of the new 450s reach within 15-20 minutes of riding... thats a part of the reason changing your oil often is so key

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by SRH
wtf the manufactuers all have a suggested api rating most japanese are sj or sg so regardless of whether its ok for a wet clutch or not you need to check the api rating , american cars and japanese cars and motorcycles take diff api ratings...using the cheap walmart oil will eat your clutch up and leave your motor full of nasty sludge, as far as all that moly nonsense as long as its in line with the api rating and ok for the application idk wtf you guys are arguing about

i think most oils lose most of ther viscosity after a certain temp...that most of the new 450s reach within 15-20 minutes of riding... thats a part of the reason changing your oil often is so key

I only used that cheap oil for break in, it was never in there for very long and I changed it around 10 min of run time. It was just cheap flush for me.

I've never agreed with changing oil with 15-20 minutes of run time (good oil, not my break in oil), I dont see how you even give the oil enough time to break down.

You could just send some oil in for analysis to see what's going on with it and if it's ok to run still, but the problem with this is it costs more to do that than to just change the oil, though it would be cool to see how the oil holds up in these machines. I often got oil anyalysis done on the oil in my truck (diesel motor) to see how long it lasted and to see what metals are in the oil (tells you if anything is wearing out excessively). It was very interesting, but costly.

Why would your clutch get eaten up by the cheap oil?

molybdenum is a man made synthetic lubricant that has been known to cause premature wear on wet clutches like those found in most sport ATV's, this is why it has been stated within the industry to not run this in ATV's (since all atv's before the 450R motor used oil to lubricate the motor and the transmission/clutch), but the newer motors are an exception to this rule. Molybdenum however is an excellent lube to use in the motor.

[ryan243]

i didnt mean he couldnt run it, i just think its a better idea not to, i probably should have worded that better

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by ryan243
i didnt mean he couldnt run it, i just think its a better idea not to, i probably should have worded that better

Just some food for thought. There were a bunch of guys with 400ex's (before the 450R's were out) that were mobil 1 fanatics and always ran mobil 1 full synthetic car oil, in their quads. Most knew about the dangers of the car synthetics, but a LOT of guys right on this site ran it, and swore by it. There were a few guys who were keeping watchful eyes on clutch wear as well and reported no further wear.

I myself still wouldn't do this, but if you did some searching on this site you would surely dig up some good reading material on the subject. Just search under the 400ex section for mobil 1

[ryan243]

hmm thats very interesting. i wouldnt be brave enough to test it, but dang

[SRH]

oil needs to be changed in a race bike no more than every race, 2 motos , plus a practice, good qaulity oil shouldnt have lost much viscosity , main reason you need to change oil often is to get other metal debris, clutch debris...dirt the passes thru the filter or fuel out of the motor


break in is probably the most important time to use a higher quality oil, you have more friction and heat.... not to mention most guys have alot of dirt, debris old gasket find there way in so you might save your sefl a few bucks just flushing it with cheap oil but then when you change to what oil your going to use you got 2 different oils floating around in your motor...

i believe honda and yamaha oil is mobil oil...mobil is good oil...but running oil designed for a automobile in a quad is like wearing underwear designed for your girlfriend....i mean some guys swear by it but ill stick with bel ray thumper

so yeah basically you can put any nasty old oil in a quad and it will run and you probably wont notice a difference in the time you have the quad, but i like maintaining a nice tight clean motor and using the right good oil is the only way to do it...your oil should go in gold and come out gold...if its turning color it should of been changed already

im a fan of do it once do it right:p

[SRH]

btw i didnt mean honda or yamaha oil is made for a car.. i met mobil automotive oil shouldnt be run in a quad.... and really these guys who swore by it...you could probably throw some cheap oil in the same bottle and theyd say its awesome...

[ryan243]

im with you, id rather run the best at all times and not have to question it

[SRH]

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~hasl/oildealers.htm very well put

[ryan243]

that was a fulfilling read, thank you

[CRE Performance]

Guys, stay tuned. Maxima Racing Oils has sponsored my MC/ATV Technology program, we have inturn agreed to do some oil testing. Last week, we have pitted almost every maxima oil against each other, and even thrown in a few others just for comparison sake. This was a dyno based test and we collected over 500 pages of data, over 4 days, 2 different bikes, 5 different oils, and Im just now getting it compiled. After I get the OK to publicize, it will be in the dyno section. Our findings were very different than what I expected them to be, and many who have an open mind will have misconceptions cleared. I feel it was a valuable test session and I will definitely use the data that we collected for a better bike.:)

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by SRH
oil needs to be changed in a race bike no more than every race, 2 motos , plus a practice, good qaulity oil shouldnt have lost much viscosity , main reason you need to change oil often is to get other metal debris, clutch debris...dirt the passes thru the filter or fuel out of the motor


break in is probably the most important time to use a higher quality oil, you have more friction and heat.... not to mention most guys have alot of dirt, debris old gasket find there way in so you might save your sefl a few bucks just flushing it with cheap oil but then when you change to what oil your going to use you got 2 different oils floating around in your motor...

i believe honda and yamaha oil is mobil oil...mobil is good oil...but running oil designed for a automobile in a quad is like wearing underwear designed for your girlfriend....i mean some guys swear by it but ill stick with bel ray thumper

so yeah basically you can put any nasty old oil in a quad and it will run and you probably wont notice a difference in the time you have the quad, but i like maintaining a nice tight clean motor and using the right good oil is the only way to do it...your oil should go in gold and come out gold...if its turning color it should of been changed already

im a fan of do it once do it right:p

If you do some research you'll see mobil oil is a hoax. Their so called "synthetic" oil is not even that... it's all over the web.

Break in is the most important time to run a standard dino fuel, as a full synthetic will not even allow the rings to seat properly. This is widespread knowledge. It is quite common to run a standard dino oil for a while until the motor is "broken in" and then you can switch to a synthetic. It is a rule of thumb to wait as long as possible until switching to full synthetic. (within reason).

I would hope you dont have a lot of dirt floating in your motor!? Unless you're running a K&N filter :p

Why do you think it's bad to have 2 different oils floating around anyways? I'm not saying you're wrong, but what's so bad about it, even if this did happen?

As often as you change oil it wouldn't matter if you put water in for one of your changes, you dont even give the oil enough time to do it's job.

I say you should start getting oil analysis to back up these claims. I guarnatee they will tell you to continue use on the oil. You're basically wasting money by changing that often. I guess too much maintenance is better than not enough, but think about all the money you're wasting!

I believe Honda oil was proven to be something other than Mobil quite a while back too. Most of the companies design their own oil, it's not an off the shelf thing...

Also you're ideas of the color of oil are not correct and I have oil analysis to back it up. I've had oil come out of my diesel motor (notoriously dirty) that was black as sin, but still passed analysis with flying colors. The color is usually a good way to tell if it's good or not, but analysis will be even better. Amsoil sells an oil that is good for 25k miles or 1 year, and I went as far as 16k miles with analysis to back it up, but then just changed it because I thought it was ridiculous to go that far on oil. The science doesn't lie though.

Bill, the link you posted from Bel-ray even says their oil can go longer than most with interval changes, yet you change every 20 minutes? what's the point of using such a high quality oil if you change it so often anyways?

[BakerRacing40]

$20 dollars to change oil vs 1200 to 1500 for a used stock engine... I'll stick to my bel Ray thumper oil, change it often, test my oil samples at work, and have confidence in my engine...:macho

[SRH]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
If you do some research you'll see mobil oil is a hoax. Their so called "synthetic" oil is not even that... it's all over the web.

Break in is the most important time to run a standard dino fuel, as a full synthetic will not even allow the rings to seat properly. This is widespread knowledge. It is quite common to run a standard dino oil for a while until the motor is "broken in" and then you can switch to a synthetic. It is a rule of thumb to wait as long as possible until switching to full synthetic. (within reason).

I would hope you dont have a lot of dirt floating in your motor!? Unless you're running a K&N filter :p

Why do you think it's bad to have 2 different oils floating around anyways? I'm not saying you're wrong, but what's so bad about it, even if this did happen?

As often as you change oil it wouldn't matter if you put water in for one of your changes, you dont even give the oil enough time to do it's job.

I say you should start getting oil analysis to back up these claims. I guarnatee they will tell you to continue use on the oil. You're basically wasting money by changing that often. I guess too much maintenance is better than not enough, but think about all the money you're wasting!

I believe Honda oil was proven to be something other than Mobil quite a while back too. Most of the companies design their own oil, it's not an off the shelf thing...

Also you're ideas of the color of oil are not correct and I have oil analysis to back it up. I've had oil come out of my diesel motor (notoriously dirty) that was black as sin, but still passed analysis with flying colors. The color is usually a good way to tell if it's good or not, but analysis will be even better. Amsoil sells an oil that is good for 25k miles or 1 year, and I went as far as 16k miles with analysis to back it up, but then just changed it because I thought it was ridiculous to go that far on oil. The science doesn't lie though.

Bill, the link you posted from Bel-ray even says their oil can go longer than most with interval changes, yet you change every 20 minutes? what's the point of using such a high quality oil if you change it so often anyways?

i dont buy lazy oil it works when i put it in:blah: stop comparing trucks and cars to quad.....im sure i could run my oil and never have an issue but my motors also stayed new, probably changed it just under 45 minutes of run time each time

dirt gets through most guys filters and gas because there not meticulous or simply dont care

idk what your saying...dirty oil is dirty oil...in and out clean is the way i like it.... i wonder how often the factory teams change there oil?

you know why they sell oils good for that long..because they know people dont want to change there oil... and people dont want to spend money on oil changes...i dont care if they say an oil is good for 20 hrs @12,000 rpm with sand in the motor...ill still change it every race

your whole point is arguing for the backwoods guy who is looking for cheap little gimmicks and nonsense to avoid spending $30 on a oil change...

no matter what the fresher the oil is the better the oil is, in 10 yrs easy 100 races ive never had a dnf and never had a motor issue...never blown...nothing......

[mxpimp2000]

Rotella T 15w30. dosent hurt clutches. the quad engine builders reccomend using rotella t. ive talked to alot of pros and they all 98% say they used rotella t before they were sponsored and got the oil from sponsors free. who wouldnt switch if they are handing out free bottles of oil.

Rotella T 15w30 hands down best oil ive ever used. ive been the car oil route and it did make my clutches slip but with rotella it is made for a wet clutch and will not harm any of the components.

before i switched to rotella from yamalube at 5.25 a quart i researched rotella on google and i found alot of ppl using it in their quads. i can go to walmart and get a gallon for 11.25 and change my oil every race (1hr ride time) and change my filter every 2 races. i cant imagine the money i have saved:D

[CRE Performance]

Originally posted by mxpimp2000
Rotella T 15w30. dosent hurt clutches. the quad engine builders reccomend using rotella t. ive talked to alot of pros and they all 98% say they used rotella t before they were sponsored and got the oil from sponsors free. who wouldnt switch if they are handing out free bottles of oil.

Rotella T 15w30 hands down best oil ive ever used. ive been the car oil route and it did make my clutches slip but with rotella it is made for a wet clutch and will not harm any of the components.

before i switched to rotella from yamalube at 5.25 a quart i researched rotella on google and i found alot of ppl using it in their quads. i can go to walmart and get a gallon for 11.25 and change my oil every race (1hr ride time) and change my filter every 2 races. i cant imagine the money i have saved:D

Does Rotella make 5w30? If so, why dont you use it?

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by SRH
i dont buy lazy oil it works when i put it in:blah: stop comparing trucks and cars to quad.....im sure i could run my oil and never have an issue but my motors also stayed new, probably changed it just under 45 minutes of run time each time

dirt gets through most guys filters and gas because there not meticulous or simply dont care

idk what your saying...dirty oil is dirty oil...in and out clean is the way i like it.... i wonder how often the factory teams change there oil?

you know why they sell oils good for that long..because they know people dont want to change there oil... and people dont want to spend money on oil changes...i dont care if they say an oil is good for 20 hrs @12,000 rpm with sand in the motor...ill still change it every race

your whole point is arguing for the backwoods guy who is looking for cheap little gimmicks and nonsense to avoid spending $30 on a oil change...

no matter what the fresher the oil is the better the oil is, in 10 yrs easy 100 races ive never had a dnf and never had a motor issue...never blown...nothing......

I simply refuse to spend an unnecessary amount of money on oil. As if the oil manufacturers aren't making record profits as it is...

I wasn't directly comparing car oil to quad oil, I know each is formulated to work in their specific applications. That is obvious.

I was simply saying that there are oils out there that are designed to work under harsh conditions.

There were times that my truck oil was abused far worse than the oil in my quads. Quad oil change was cheap even at $10+ a quart.

My truck oil cost $150 for the oil and the filter, it adds up when you're changing it a lot. That is why I spent the money to have the analysis done.

I know you're the "clean oil in, clean oil out" kind of guy, and that is your right to do so, it just seems silly to me to drain perfectly clean oil... that tells me it isn't even used yet. That's like buying new oil and just dumping it out because it's been exposed to air. To each his own I guess. I was just trying to make the point that I dont in fact wait til my oil is a sludge by any means, and I do change the oil often in both my truck and my quad/bikes, but, I wont change it far before it needs it!

[SRH]

come on now mike i recall you redoing a 450r motor;)

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by SRH
come on now mike i recall you redoing a 450r motor;)

Yep twice. I wasn't riding it either time it let go.

The first time was rod bearing, but god knows how many hours were on it, and it was on the ice, running WOT.

The second time a wristpin clip fell out and then you can imagine the mayhem once the wristpin walked over... that had nothing to do with oil though, and again it was on the ice... WOT.

I recall you never riding your bikes... hardly at all! :p

My truck takes some serious punishment and has had the headgaskets done twice due to my misuse. I dont blame that on the oil.

[SRH]

never did less than 10 races a season , i had other rides i practiced on....