powerful motors? [Archive] - ATV Riders Forum

woodsracer144

01-23-2010, 07:05 PM

im in a polanda build, theres a guy on here ( BA400) and he mx'ed a polanda...

there is no replacement for displacement, i've been told that with a Big bore (330+) you dont really need to port it for a low end hit cause its already got a good grunt

once i get this cyl done i'll do a mid rage port job to it...

if you have a mill and an alum. welder and a little known how you can have one of these polandas for next to nothing... i'll have about 200 in to the cylinder when im done...
With the polanda the holes on the cyl dont match the studs on the cases. so this is when the mill comes in to play the most...

the hardest part that i've found so far is getting the studs to match up to the holes on the cylinder, i just started working on this part but its been the biggest challange for me so far... i just started on a jig for it but it took me a long time to think of this jig... so i'll see how it turns out...

I've made 2 jigs so far and they have worked out really good, if my 3rd jig works out drilling the holes on the cylinder will be easy. but i've got 8 hours in to this hole project so far.. here are some pics of the cyl...

my front stud holes were totall broken off so i had to re weld them on, then after that i put a block in there so it was strong and then i also could use the OE trx250r studs.

the only thing i havnt got in to yet is checkin what crack shaft i have to run, the long or the short, i my stroke is a little long i can use a spacer or dish the head if its too short i'll just take a little more off the deck...

woodsracer144

01-23-2010, 07:06 PM

heres the decking i did...

tommygunnz

01-23-2010, 07:11 PM

I'm thinking with a stock stroke and mild porting these combos could tear some 450 *** and still be rideable.I understand some people wouldn't think they're good for all around but I used to have a ATC250R bored 120 over fully ported for mid-top cool head for 110 38mm carb rad valve spcer and it was plenty trail friendly for me not that it compared to a puma or polanda just saying I don't mind a bike hard to use on trails as long as its not too far un trailable.If not one of those how is a 350pv against a 450

derby

01-23-2010, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by tommygunnz
I'm thinking with a stock stroke and mild porting these combos could tear some 450 *** and still be rideable.I understand some people wouldn't think they're good for all around but I used to have a ATC250R bored 120 over fully ported for mid-top cool head for 110 38mm carb rad valve spcer and it was plenty trail friendly for me not that it compared to a puma or polanda just saying I don't mind a bike hard to use on trails as long as its not too far un trailable.If not one of those how is a 350pv against a 450

You will not find a better setup than one of these!

http://i45.tinypic.com/14ccidv.jpg

Or maybe one of these....this is my latest project.

http://i48.tinypic.com/8x3cs8.jpg

tommygunnz

01-23-2010, 07:45 PM

That thing looks so badass you gotta love 250RS!what does a puma top end cost roughly and I don't think that's a lockout clutch is it?can you explain the clutch and what its strong points are?
Originally posted by derby
You will not find a better setup than one of these!

http://i45.tinypic.com/14ccidv.jpg

T
Or maybe one of these....this is my latest project.

http://i48.tinypic.com/8x3cs8.jpg

derby

01-23-2010, 07:51 PM

The puma topend is not that expensive it is the entire setup that will add up. You can get a complete puma topend for $1100-$1200. Yes it is a gigot slingshot lockup the best you can buy.

The other cylinder is my saber powervalve.

tommygunnz

01-23-2010, 08:21 PM

I don't know a lot about those clutches are they good for all types of riding not just drag? I take it the saber is better all around(pv)?
Originally posted by derby
The puma topend is not that expensive it is the entire setup that will add up. You can get a complete puma topend for $1100-$1200. Yes it is a gigot slingshot lockup the best you can buy.

The other cylinder is my saber powervalve.

DEERCHOOPER

01-23-2010, 08:48 PM

the saber turns it into a 500cc with there crank. est hp is 100

i wonder what that costs?

1promodfan

01-23-2010, 09:20 PM

To build a Saber right, you're looking well over $3500. And if you're thinking about building one, don't even think of trying to kick it.

woodsracer144

01-23-2010, 09:39 PM

yeah if you want a big bore cyl the polanda might be the cheaper route... there was a polanda motor ready to go that BA 400 sold and he was asking 1000 for it but got 1500 some how...

the other ones (saber and pump) if you want the motor done right are going to cost some $$ some people also use the Pilot cyl and i think theres been cr500's done too...

tommygunnz

01-23-2010, 10:39 PM

I was thinking by the time my next R motor is done I want to have like 1500ish in to the motor(new crank,main bearings,clutch,top end)so I think the polanda might be good,would you guys say a ported polanda motor is faster straight line than the 350pvs?

woodsracer144

01-23-2010, 10:52 PM

a polanda with a OE bore polaris piston is a 389? and they have 440 kits... i think a polanda will do just fine for you... after i get mine done and going good if you need any help let me know...

i that the 389 will rip your arms right off... i dont know if i would want to ride on a 440! ok i would just cause it would be nuts but thats crazy horse!

if its 65Hp, is that off the crank shaft or at the rear tires? some one said they were claiming 100hp with the saber? 500's is that at the crank cause how come the LT doesnt get that kind of HP?

DEERCHOOPER

01-24-2010, 05:10 AM

at the wheels with that number

http://saberracing.com/index.php?id=2,7,0,0,1,0

BB370R

01-24-2010, 10:13 AM

Im running an Eddie Sanders 370 and didnt have a problem with 450s. However I was told to upgrade the tranny and I skipped that part. Yesterday while riding I thought I broke the chain only to look And see my case had a new site glass where the tranny busted out :ermm:. I am very impressed with my 370 and had no problems with it.

derby

01-24-2010, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by BB370R
Im running an Eddie Sanders 370 and didnt have a problem with 450s. However I was told to upgrade the tranny and I skipped that part. Yesterday while riding I thought I broke the chain only to look And see my case had a new site glass where the tranny busted out :ermm:. I am very impressed with my 370 and had no problems with it.

I have an esr 370 and it is very impressive. But it is a grenade waiting to go off. The 5mm crank is the weak link. If I could do it all over again I would build it around a ktm or yz490 rod.

Building the saber up right is going to run a little over $5000.

tommygunnz

01-24-2010, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by BB370R
Im running an Eddie Sanders 370 and didnt have a problem with 450s. However I was told to upgrade the tranny and I skipped that part. Yesterday while riding I thought I broke the chain only to look And see my case had a new site glass where the tranny busted out :ermm:. I am very impressed with my 370 and had no problems with it. how long did you run the 370 long rod motor for?I usually go out once maybe twice a week and need something that wont be very unreliable but at the same note we line our bikes up every time we ride so I want to be in front every time(who doesnt)! lol

jon370r

01-24-2010, 12:04 PM

I have $1100 in this whole 401 engine including buying the bottom end to build it on but I did all the machine work and building myself. I haven't had it on a dyno you but its very comparible to my ESR 370 PV that I used to have but I run this with pump gas. Only problems I have had in 3 years is (2) broken Hot Rod stroker cranks and ripped the dogs off 3rd gear and I had to put in some Yukon billets.

tommygunnz

01-24-2010, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by jon370r
I have $1100 in this whole 401 engine including buying the bottom end to build it on but I did all the machine work and building myself. I haven't had it on a dyno you but its very comparible to my ESR 370 PV that I used to have but I run this with pump gas. Only problems I have had in 3 years is (2) broken Hot Rod stroker cranks and ripped the dogs off 3rd gear and I had to put in some Yukon billets. how would you say a 370 compares to a built 450 in regular form(stock length swing arm holeshots etc)when you drag race?

honda350r

01-24-2010, 12:29 PM

My advice is to NEVER mix Polaris parts with a Honda !

I have never seen one run worth a darn!

Get a ESR and be done with it.

jon370r

01-24-2010, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by tommygunnz
how would you say a 370 compares to a built 450 in regular form(stock length swing arm holeshots etc)when you drag race?

Depends on where you are racing. I ride a lot of gravel pits and we usually race on the hard packed dirt roads that the dump trucks use. Off the line they are usually close because 2 strokes have lots of wheel spin but I pull away in 4th, 5th and 6th. One day there were a couple of built Raptor's 700 from out of state that were real fast. I couldn't pull them in even after 200 yards. So I asked them if they wanted to go race on the asphault road section in the pit and they were all cocky and said "sure where ever you want". I smoked them every race because I could get my power to the ground and they left wimpering.

tommygunnz

01-24-2010, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by honda350r
My advice is to NEVER mix Polaris parts with a Honda !

I have never seen one run worth a darn!

Get a ESR and be done with it.
my whole thing is I want to be able to out run my buddys built YFZ when we drag which we do every time we go riding will a ESR be enough?

jon370r

01-24-2010, 12:46 PM

A well tuned 350-370 ESR would be plenty of power to play with your buddy. Just remember $6-8 agallon for race fuel gets expensive when you ride every week.

tommygunnz

01-24-2010, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by jon370r
A well tuned 350-370 ESR would be plenty of power to play with your buddy. Just remember $6-8 agallon for race fuel gets expensive when you ride every week. I think I might do a 370 long rod thanks and thats one nice R bro

woodsracer144

01-24-2010, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by honda350r
My advice is to NEVER mix Polaris parts with a Honda !

I have never seen one run worth a darn!

Get a ESR and be done with it.

you know the saying its not the quad its the rider? well its also the guy putting motor together... I've ran a ESR 265PV and i've rode a totally stock 250r motor that had a better hit then the ESR, in fact i hated that esr, would take the totally stock quad over the ESR, the esr has a arens chassis PEP shocks all the bells and wistles. the other one with the stock motor was a 89 chassis with a works front end and a oe rear and and that quad was way faster then the ESR...

It all comes down to what you can ride and how you work with them... Jon does all kinds of hybred 250r motors and i think that some of the are just nuts like the rotax ones!

tommygunnz

01-24-2010, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by woodsracer144
you know the saying its not the quad its the rider? well its also the guy putting motor together... I've ran a ESR 265PV and i've rode a totally stock 250r motor that had a better hit then the ESR, in fact i hated that esr, would take the totally stock quad over the ESR, the esr has a arens chassis PEP shocks all the bells and wistles. the other one with the stock motor was a 89 chassis with a works front end and a oe rear and and that quad was way faster then the ESR...

It all comes down to what you can ride and how you work with them... Jon does all kinds of hybred 250r motors and i think that some of the are just nuts like the rotax ones! you have a good point the reason I am going to build a big bore R is because my buddy with the built YFZ is one of the best riders around and I just wanna smoke him in drags but dont want a drag only bike.He has compression that requires 110octane and with my CT ported powervalve quadracer on pump gas and 38mm airstryker carb Im only 2 to 3 bikes behind on dirt with 22 inch realtors and a 45T rear sproket(both getting changed)

woodsracer144

01-24-2010, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by tommygunnz
you have a good point the reason I am going to build a big bore R is because my buddy with the built YFZ is one of the best riders around and I just wanna smoke him in drags but dont want a drag only bike.He has compression that requires 110octane and with my CT ported powervalve quadracer on pump gas and 38mm airstryker carb Im only 2 to 3 bikes behind on dirt with 22 inch realtors and a 45T rear sproket(both getting changed)

i never knew they made a 22 rear tire... i thought a 21 was the biggest i've seen on a quad... mx quad or xc...

If you get the time and a little money after this TRX build look in to a LT hybred with the zilla motor... thats what im going to do some time after i get done with this polanda... but i also have my hands on a cheap shee i might have to make a outlaw chassis out of it and trick that out too... why do you have to find all these good deals at once...

machwon

01-24-2010, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by tommygunnz
my whole thing is I want to be able to out run my buddys built YFZ when we drag which we do every time we go riding will a ESR be enough?

Tommygunz, who built your buddies YFZ? Do you know how much power it has? A YFZ can be bad $$$ but really not too dunable. Either way once you get a motor, getting a screaming two stroke to hook up will be the key. Your set up will be crucial to winning everytime.

woodsracer144

01-24-2010, 08:19 PM

Mac is right, its also not the size but how well you hook up... some of it is how you let the clutch go, and some of it is how the power is delivered powerband wise...

tommygunnz

01-24-2010, 08:25 PM

He bought it from a kid who raced it we know it has aluminum radiator and oil cooler full hmf exaust a high compression piston for 110 fuel we suspect cams but not sure
Originally posted by machwon
Tommygunz, who built your buddies YFZ? Do you know how much power it has? A YFZ can be bad $$$ but really not too dunable. Either way once you get a motor, getting a screaming two stroke to hook up will be the key. Your set up will be crucial to winning everytime.

Honda 250r 001

01-24-2010, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by tommygunnz
He bought it from a kid who raced it we know it has aluminum radiator and oil cooler full hmf exaust a high compression piston for 110 fuel we suspect cams but not sure

I hear that no aftermarket cam can beat the all around of the stock yfz cam.. only increase low end or top end, not both... just saying... still, a 350 big bore, should still KILL a yfz. my 310 on pump gas is dead even with a stock yfz...

machwon

01-24-2010, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by tommygunnz
He bought it from a kid who raced it we know it has aluminum radiator and oil cooler full hmf exaust a high compression piston for 110 fuel we suspect cams but not sure

That doesn't sound too bad, still a high 40's low 50's HP YFZ. I'd recommend at least a 350. One of my favorite builds is a 350 run with a 4mm stroker crank to get around a 365cc, 40.5mm carb, and a decent pipe should do it for the motor.

honda350r

01-24-2010, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by woodsracer144
you know the saying its not the quad its the rider? well its also the guy putting motor together... I've ran a ESR 265PV and i've rode a totally stock 250r motor that had a better hit then the ESR, in fact i hated that esr, would take the totally stock quad over the ESR, the esr has a arens chassis PEP shocks all the bells and wistles. the other one with the stock motor was a 89 chassis with a works front end and a oe rear and and that quad was way faster then the ESR...

It all comes down to what you can ride and how you work with them... Jon does all kinds of hybred 250r motors and i think that some of the are just nuts like the rotax ones!

You are not telling me anything I don't already know !

I do know for a fact that you are wasting money on a holairs build !

I call them holairs because they are a joke, get it ...LOL

I have had them all except the saber.

I also had a Rotax before many even knew what they were ...

Here it is

woodsracer144

01-24-2010, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
I hear that no aftermarket cam can beat the all around of the stock yfz cam.. only increase low end or top end, not both... just saying... still, a 350 big bore, should still KILL a yfz. my 310 on pump gas is dead even with a stock yfz...

alot of factors can come in on a 310 or 350... some one can have one that is wicked fast and then some one can have one that is so out of tune its not funny...

as far as a yfz cam not being an all around im not sure, i rode a yzf with a true 450 kit and web cams (not sure of the grind) and CP piston and all the bells and wistles and that thing was fast, if i had to pick a 4 stroke to run it would be the yfz, its the closest thing to a 250r IMO...

honda350r, im not wasting money when i have the cylinder and every thing for free right in front of my face, i got the cyls in a parts lot a long time ago cause i needed the one good one, i found the polanda thing a few years ago and i though since i have 2 of these cylinders and i can fix that i might as well run them... im not out anything cause i need to do the welding as a class project and then he lets me mill it, my shop teacher is also a 250r fan but he doesnt know as much as i do, he had one when he was younger but he didnt really have much done to it...

everyone to their own set ups but being the cheap SOB i am i'll have at most just to have the cyl run with out a port job about 100 bucks and about 20 hard working hours to go... it will take me about 2 more weeks but i work on this for an hour and then i have to help some one else with something then i'll work on it... if i could just work all day really hard and just foucs on this i could be done by the end of this week im sure...

Its going to be hard for me to get a cyl going near the price i can have this one going for...

tommygunnz

01-24-2010, 08:56 PM

Damn that looks badass! The funny thing is even with my quadracer ported by CT 60 over and the head shaved for 93(22 inch realtors 45T rear)I still stay within 3 bikes on dirt always and get my buddys shee regularly he has everything but porting and stroker cranks even runs race gas
Originally posted by honda350r
You are not telling me anything I don't already know !

I do know for a fact that you are wasting money on a holairs build !

I call them holairs because they are a joke, get it ...LOL

I have had them all except the saber.

I also had a Rotax before many even knew what they were ...

Here it is :devil:

BB370R

01-25-2010, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by tommygunnz
how long did you run the 370 long rod motor for?I usually go out once maybe twice a week and need something that wont be very unreliable but at the same note we line our bikes up every time we ride so I want to be in front every time(who doesnt)! lol
My motor has been together over 3 yrs and never had a serious problem(busted tranny saturday ) other than just typical maintenance like reeds and rings. I have dirt dragged mine and trail ride it without issues.I may be lucky who knows...:D

woodsracer144

01-25-2010, 06:41 AM

well now you just shot your self in the *** and shes gonna go..^^^ haha... thats way always happens to me as soon as i say something is going good then she turns around and thats a shi tter...

buford

01-25-2010, 04:54 PM

if you build a puma, you will be into it $4,000.00 to do it right. The only thing a bit less than building a Saber is the crankshaft.

it sounds like the YFZ is pretty quick, I don't know what you weigh but my wife (115 lbs so she is light but I do the same thing to 450's when I rider her bike) beats 450's all the time. These aren't full on drag 450's just good all around bikes that have the typical mods cam's pipes, ported head, higher compression piston, etc. I build a pretty tame port timing, stock jug big bore aluminum sleeve 4 mil stroker motor. The thing looks completely stock, it doesn't use a cylinder spacer plate. 72 mm bore, YZ 490 rod 4 mil crank and a mid 90's KTM 300 piston out of a dirt bike. It has a FMF fatty pipe on it, v-force reeds, and a 39 pwk. Compression is low so she can kick it over. Stock ignition. The reason I post this, I had a smaller motor that would kick butt on this motor. It has a bit more port timing than my wife's bike but was still very ridable and was probably the funnest 250r motor I've had. It was a 86 cylinder, 69 mm bore, 4 mil stroke crank. Curtis Sparks TT pipe, V-force reeds, and a 40.5 mm keihin. I had the compression up around 15:1. This made around 284 cc's, with the CR 250 ignition and the smaller bore it reved major quick and had good bottom end out of the hole. It dynoed with no tuning at all (never had time and never did really touch the jetting at all) at 51 hp and 35-36 ft lbs of torque. With some jetting and ignition tuning changes I think this motor easily could of made mid 50's hp. This is comparable to a ridable 310-330 cc Pro-x cylinder setup. maybe not as much torque, but if you are running dirt and are on flat ground, I would take the RPM's and HP. These can be build real cheap compared to what your larger cylinders are going to cost you. I went up against some pretty beefed up 450's on this little motor in the dunes racing up hills and they were suprised when I told them what I had for CC's.

derby

01-26-2010, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by buford
if you build a puma, you will be into it $4,000.00 to do it right. The only thing a bit less than building a Saber is the crankshaft.

You can get into a puma cheaper than that. There is more of a price difference in the puma to saber. The saber crank is $1000, and the carb is $800 that right there puts the hurt on the wallet and you don't even have a topend yet which will run you another $2300. Then machine work, pipe, ignition(no way anyone is using stock), reeds, the list goes on.

Puma's you can build for $2800-$3000 with stock ignition

tommygunnz

01-26-2010, 10:52 AM

I only weigh 205 and my buddy with YFZ weighs 165 and a better rider Im thinking a LRD 350 and LRD big bore pipe fed with maybe a 39 pwk will be good for me
Originally posted by buford
if you build a puma, you will be into it $4,000.00 to do it right. The only thing a bit less than building a Saber is the crankshaft.

it sounds like the YFZ is pretty quick, I don't know what you weigh but my wife (115 lbs so she is light but I do the same thing to 450's when I rider her bike) beats 450's all the time. These aren't full on drag 450's just good all around bikes that have the typical mods cam's pipes, ported head, higher compression piston, etc. I build a pretty tame port timing, stock jug big bore aluminum sleeve 4 mil stroker motor. The thing looks completely stock, it doesn't use a cylinder spacer plate. 72 mm bore, YZ 490 rod 4 mil crank and a mid 90's KTM 300 piston out of a dirt bike. It has a FMF fatty pipe on it, v-force reeds, and a 39 pwk. Compression is low so she can kick it over. Stock ignition. The reason I post this, I had a smaller motor that would kick butt on this motor. It has a bit more port timing than my wife's bike but was still very ridable and was probably the funnest 250r motor I've had. It was a 86 cylinder, 69 mm bore, 4 mil stroke crank. Curtis Sparks TT pipe, V-force reeds, and a 40.5 mm keihin. I had the compression up around 15:1. This made around 284 cc's, with the CR 250 ignition and the smaller bore it reved major quick and had good bottom end out of the hole. It dynoed with no tuning at all (never had time and never did really touch the jetting at all) at 51 hp and 35-36 ft lbs of torque. With some jetting and ignition tuning changes I think this motor easily could of made mid 50's hp. This is comparable to a ridable 310-330 cc Pro-x cylinder setup. maybe not as much torque, but if you are running dirt and are on flat ground, I would take the RPM's and HP. These can be build real cheap compared to what your larger cylinders are going to cost you. I went up against some pretty beefed up 450's on this little motor in the dunes racing up hills and they were suprised when I told them what I had for CC's.

woodsracer144

01-26-2010, 12:15 PM

tommy as you can see the sky is the limit... if you wanted im sure you could make you quad a out law chassis and but a banshee motor with a cheeta in it and really start putting out money...

buford

01-26-2010, 12:22 PM

I will tell you in a few weeks if your idea is a good one or not. I just put together for my bro in law a LRD ported 330 and had one of there 330 big bore pipes laying around I slapped on it. Looking at the port job and the port timings, this motor should really chug down low and be real fun to ride but my gut is telling me my little 284 cc stock jug would take it and still have a bunch of usable power. Looks like I'm building another motor for a test.

Derby, I just built a 431 cc Puma, granted I went a bit overboard with cryoing the stock gears and the yukons, put a YZ 490 rod on the hot rods 4 mil crank I bought new and had it balanced, have the Shearer puma pipe, CR ignition, etc and it cost me $4,000.00 for this. You can go cheaper but it won't perform and before long the tranny will break, and it won't run right. These are high end motors for dollars if you want them to perform.

pottenza

01-26-2010, 02:21 PM

if you want a see what a 350pv can do versus 450, look a this link :)

Allard was the only 2stroke of the race..

http://www.montrealmotocross.com/Video.aspx?no=95

woodsracer144

01-26-2010, 02:32 PM

are you sure that was a 350? i know jones was on a sparks PV and there was only 6 of those made... Willet got one, jones got 2 hitt got 2 and i cant rember who the other 2 were, i'll ask zac again...

pottenza

01-26-2010, 02:36 PM

it's a ctracing 350pv

woodsracer144

01-26-2010, 03:01 PM

oh, i didnt know that... do you know him?

pottenza

01-26-2010, 03:04 PM

yes, it's one of my friend, he live about 5min from my house. you can belive me, this bike is crazy, it pull from the bottom to the top...

woodsracer144

01-26-2010, 03:13 PM

sweet ****! does he still have it? what kind of chassis and all that did he run?

pottenza

01-26-2010, 03:16 PM

yes he still have it, i dont think he will ever sell it :)

it's a aren frame
lsr a-arm
lsr swing-arm
elka shock

i cant remember the pipe and carburator on it, i will have to ask him..

woodsracer144

01-26-2010, 04:00 PM

sweet! does he still race it? or does he run a 450 now?

pottenza

01-26-2010, 04:33 PM

he was racing the canadien championship so he was force to switch to 450 for the last couple of year's. but now he dont race anymore, but he use it for fun and trail riding...

but if you give him the choice, he will still race it, if he can...

derby

01-26-2010, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by buford
I will tell you in a few weeks if your idea is a good one or not. I just put together for my bro in law a LRD ported 330 and had one of there 330 big bore pipes laying around I slapped on it. Looking at the port job and the port timings, this motor should really chug down low and be real fun to ride but my gut is telling me my little 284 cc stock jug would take it and still have a bunch of usable power. Looks like I'm building another motor for a test.

Derby, I just built a 431 cc Puma, granted I went a bit overboard with cryoing the stock gears and the yukons, put a YZ 490 rod on the hot rods 4 mil crank I bought new and had it balanced, have the Shearer puma pipe, CR ignition, etc and it cost me $4,000.00 for this. You can go cheaper but it won't perform and before long the tranny will break, and it won't run right. These are high end motors for dollars if you want them to perform.

Hey buford what carb did you put on your puma?