Estimated ESR 350 power output?

[Dubs_Tech]

Hey guys ive been searching and searching but found nothing on power output of the ESR 350 kit. Ive read numerous posts how its scarey fast etc etc. How much do you think roughly a properly set up 350r dune bike would put out? Non PV

This is my thoughts on my new build:

ESR350 kit
Keihin 40.5 carb
TRX5 centermount exhaust
Rebuilt complete bottom end
Cyro'd gears
Desert Tank
Large radiator
Reporting hopefully done by C&D racing
needed larger gearing?


Any other suggestions? This bike will ONLY see Glamis & Gordons Well. I mainly only want to ride this for hill shooting & the drags with occasional duning. I'll mainly be using my built 440ex for duning.

[DEERCHOOPER]

i would like to know as well.

free bump

[8686]

If you had this cylinder ported for hillshooting and drag racing you could see some pretty serious hp numbers out of it.

[Derrick Adams]

Seems like I was just reading somewhere that around 60-65hp is normal for this type of engine, providing you have the correct accessories.

[latheboy]

I talked to ESR last week and they said 60-65hp. I was asing about a 350pv, with their TRX9 porting and pipe. I also talked to LED performance, and Arlan said his 350pv could reach 65hp, but the powerband may be too narrow for my type of riding. He suggested it be tuned and jetted in the 60-62hp range, because it would have a wider powerband.

the PV has little to no bearing on the peak HP numbers.

[derby]

Originally posted by latheboy
I talked to ESR last week and they said 60-65hp. I was asing about a 350pv, with their TRX9 porting and pipe. I also talked to LED performance, and Arlan said his 350pv could reach 65hp, but the powerband may be too narrow for my type of riding. He suggested it be tuned and jetted in the 60-62hp range, because it would have a wider powerband.

the PV has little to no bearing on the peak HP numbers.


Real world #'s is more like mid 50's maybe slightly more. The only benefit over 310's and 330's will be the torque and maybe 3-4 hp. I think 60hp will be more along the lines of a 370. I am not a fan of dyno jets none of them will ever read the same. On a consistent dyno you will see 60hp on a trx 11 gas 370 straight from esr.

[deathman53]

the dyno numbers don't mean much, its about the power delivery. If hi-horsepower meant fast, then gncc racers would have used a cr500 drag ported motor. The bigger the bore, generally the more torque and an easier to ride motor. I'm not expert, really kinda far from it, but I've ridden a bunch of different motors(mine and others). From peaky 250r's to really broad and easy to ride ones. My favorite was a 350pv, you can ride it a gear high and not bog, he had a low end pipe, 38 a/s carb, cr reeds and low-mid porting. I played with my 295pv from almost no pv tension to high pv tension. I found that little tension felt fast, but it wore me out faster and I was slower with it. I moved the adjuster to more tension as I went, it didn't wear me out as fast and I got faster, I ended up with having a decent amount of pv tension, power much smoother, more luggablity and faster. This is just a butt-on-seat dyno, I certainly could feel alot more torque and more controllablity.

[8686]

Let's all keep in mind this guy is going to use the engine mainly for hillshooting and drag racing. He doesn't need a long super smooth powerband that "won't wear you out". Who cares about that when you're drag racing? Drag racing is not about rider endurance. He needs power.

Machwon, can you chime in here about a 350 drag setup?

[machwon]

Here's a 363cc non pv pro-x cylinder on race gas. I recently did the same motor but built it for alky. This alky version womped this one on the ice last weekend by 6 lengths they said but ice easily shows a power difference due to less resistance. We'll see if it gets dyno'd later. Dyno's are excellent tools for showing what changes work and what doesn't. When used properly they provide very useful info and yes they are comparible. They are also very humbling. Too many times i've seen guys come in with high expectations and yes they leave very disappointed.

[Dubs_Tech]

So would the set up i described be powerful enough to kick some *** at the hills yet be somewhat dune-a-ble?

[albertp86]

I would say you will be able to kick alot of *****, but your set up will also be important such as what paddles you use. The other day when I was at pismo I ran into Eddie Sanders and he was running 6 paddles and just moving real fast. Now I understand that he has his bike tuned real well but I didn't know that have less paddles will normally get you more top end. Reed cage also makes a huge differance too. Just my 2 cents

[Dubs_Tech]

What cage & reeds would you recommend for that set up?

[86 Quad R]

my personal fave is the rad valve with r-19 reeds(all fiberglass). :cool:

[albertp86]

I had a rad valve but it was too restrictive so I went with the v force 3 reeds and wow. Big differance

[Dubs_Tech]

Yeah i was leaning towards the Vforce reeds. Ive never heard anything but good about them.

[tt racer]

I used the v force 3 loved it but you will be replacing the reeds often.

[Dubs_Tech]

How often is often?

[86 Quad R]

purdy dang often..... at's why i suggested the rad with the r-19's(non carbon fibers) in my earlier post. ;)

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
purdy dang often..... at's why i suggested the rad with the r-19's(non carbon fibers) in my earlier post. ;)


Yep, like what $39.95 for the RL-19 Boysene replacement reeds & close to a 100.00 on a set of the V Force.
Lot of difference, but shucks, aint nothing but money anyways.

Most people that dont like the Boysene Rad Valve, never used one thats been modified, opened up to flow more.
Now, aint nothing wrong with the V Force either, those stiffer carbon fiber reeds are just right for high rpm drag engines.
Neil

[Dubs_Tech]

So that being said should i go with the V-force for this set up? Plus i can only see this quad getting ridden maybe 6 times a year ( hopefully more but you never know )

[DEERCHOOPER]

what would be the minum carb size for this motor?

[derby]

Originally posted by Dubs_Tech
So that being said should i go with the V-force for this set up? Plus i can only see this quad getting ridden maybe 6 times a year ( hopefully more but you never know )

The best topend performing reed cage will be the esr setup. The reeds will wear a lot faster than the v-force. On a 350 the reedcage will be a bottle neck, so you might as well buy a cage that will flow the most. For dune drag I would put a 40.5 keihin on there or a 41.5 TMX.

[Dubs_Tech]

Is this what your talking about?

http://www.eddie-sanders-racing.com/oscmax/product_info.php?cPath=5_42_18&products_id=30

[derby]

Originally posted by Dubs_Tech
Is this what your talking about?

http://www.eddie-sanders-racing.com/oscmax/product_info.php?cPath=5_42_18&products_id=30

That is it... you can get them cheaper on ebay if you search micro sprint. You can get them for about 60 dollars with good used reeds. They use a modified cr250 boot that is shorter then a trx it puts the carb much closer to the intake. If you plan on getting one don't get the reed spacer version.

[albertp86]

I would agree with all of that. When I met up with Eddie Sanders down in Pismo, he said the same thing. He actually was running a v force reed cage on his bike. I know, I was suprised too. But I saw it with my own eyes. He said run his cage for all out top end and the v force 3 for top and mid power.
The carb is also the other big issue. I run a 38 as and I raced a guy that had the 40.5 and he always beat me. I rode his bike and the carb makes a big differance again for all out drag racing. I don't always drag so I am happy with my 38.
Otherwise I think that 350 will have some great power to race with.

[machwon]

This motor here used v-force and a 40.5mm carb. I talked with packard and another perf. shop about the HP, and they said 70 hp was a very stout build for this size on gas. Packard said they normally get 72 on race gas. I know guys have hit 78-80 on alky. I tried Packard's 44 lectron and it was very close across the graph just trading off a couple times. I know these will outperform a 38 tmx on top, but never tried the 41 tmx and these carbs have awesome throttle response. The motor has run at the dunes with an extended swingarm. The torque curve is pretty wide on the graph for a 2-stroke but with all the power in a little 250 most guys riding may think its pipey. It just needs a good set up in the swingarm/paddle tire dept.

The first pull for this motor on the dyno was only 60 hp. I can't remember if we changed pipes, but jetting and mostly timing were key in finding the last 10 hp.

[Dubs_Tech]

Will i have to make any modifications with either cage choice? Also i am pretty set on the 40.5 carb as i dont want to choke this thing up. This may be trickling off the main subject but what swing arm length would you guys recommend? Im going to be ordering one of ASR's light weight swing arms so i have to decide on length.

[Michael88R]

I've got an ESR reed cage for sale. It does not have the built in spacer. The reads are a bit frayed in some corners, but they still seal up. It includes a ported, CR manifold too.

[Dubs_Tech]

Im putting together my whole list before i buy anything but thanks, again though would i have to modify anything to bolt this up?

[machwon]

You would need to bore your crankcase to accept the big bore sleeve.

[Dubs_Tech]

Yeah anything over 310 needs case machining.

[adamson350r]

Next week I am going to try to get my ct 350 pv on a dyno to see how it runs with my new Esr 9 pipe.

Afterward I am going to send my 39 pwk carburetor and fly wheel to Dave Moore racing, punching it out to a 40.5 and lightening the flywheel. Then I will put it on the dyno and see what little minute changes will do. Fly wheel maybe a different power curve maybe not. Carburetor a better amount of fuel mixture for power or maybe not.

[Dubs_Tech]

Let me know the outcome. Ive been hearing rumors ( which i dont like ) that you can get similar power output out of a 310. ( with less torque of course ) Is there any truth to this?

[derby]

Originally posted by Dubs_Tech
Let me know the outcome. Ive been hearing rumors ( which i dont like ) that you can get similar power output out of a 310. ( with less torque of course ) Is there any truth to this?

Some of the fastest pro-x setups out their are stroked 310's. I have no doubt that 370's run well but it takes a lot of work to push them past upper 60's into the 70's for hp. I have seen a handful of 310's making 75+hp and they rev faster, and higher than the 370. The stroked 310's setup for that kind of power are only good for drag.

[Dubs_Tech]

So for the dune set up im planning this wouldnt be true correct? Id just hate to spend the cash & have someone on a 310 keep up.

[albertp86]

I have a esr 310pv with 3 mil stroke that I just purchased last year. 38 as carb running 8 haulers and rad valve running pump gas. Well a few months ago I raced a regular esr330 with a 40.5 carb and different reed cage and 6 haulers. He wooped me real good by at least 4 bikes. I rode his bike and it was just set up way better then mine. I bought the v force reed cage and am going to try 6 haulers. I have not run this set up yet but I think it will be much better to where I can keep up.

[adamson350r]

I will be Dynoing my quad on Sunday. We will see what happens. See if 350 pv have some guts. Afterwords I am determined to bore my carb and lighten the flywheel.

[machwon]

Here's one of a 350pv with a supposed MX/woods porting. Only came in at 40 hp to start but did pick up 9 hp with some tuning. Still pretty lame, I think the guy with the porting tools should have left this one alone...

[250r4life]

depends on if it will even run right... i've heard of several people ordering the 350 packages from ESR and never have been able to get them to run quite right...

[adamson350r]

Because of snow they decided to cancel Sundays dynos and do them next Sunday. Sucky

[adamson350r]

Ct 350 Powervalve with mid range port job. ESR trx 9 pipe. Air box eliminator kit. 39 PWK.

[Burns310r]

Originally posted by 250r4life
depends on if it will even run right... i've heard of several people ordering the 350 packages from ESR and never have been able to get them to run quite right...



This bothers me a bit, i have been looking to buy a ESR 350pv for awhile. Im about to actually pull the trigger on an entire new one from them.


I need an engine that wont leave me any excuses at the end of the race. Gotta show them 4 pokes whats up.

[adamson350r]

A 350 is an excellent kit. Don't let the dyno fool you. Look at the torque curve. A dyno gives a base line to what you are truely running and where a person can improve upon.

Remember your machine is 60+ pounds lighter than most four strokes. That is 8 almost 9 horse power more. A dyno doesn't show that.

My 350 that doesn't have much done to it will beat many quads.

If you are truely worried go with the 370 that has the stroker crank. Go buy the crank and have them install it into the 350 before they do any porting. Then they can port the top end to it.

Power valves function is to help reduce the lingering exhaust in a two stoke to help cumbustion to smooth the power rage. Doesn't effect top end at all.

I hope this helps.

[morse250r]

Originally posted by machwon
Here's a 363cc non pv pro-x cylinder on race gas. I recently did the same motor but built it for alky. This alky version womped this one on the ice last weekend by 6 lengths they said but ice easily shows a power difference due to less resistance. We'll see if it gets dyno'd later. Dyno's are excellent tools for showing what changes work and what doesn't. When used properly they provide very useful info and yes they are comparible. They are also very humbling. Too many times i've seen guys come in with high expectations and yes they leave very disappointed.

this is my motor have no problems with it a real strong runner on gas im going to try alky this spring

[derby]

Originally posted by Burns310r
This bothers me a bit, i have been looking to buy a ESR 350pv for awhile. Im about to actually pull the trigger on an entire new one from them.


I need an engine that wont leave me any excuses at the end of the race. Gotta show them 4 pokes whats up.

You have to remember that the bike is only going to run as good as your ability to tune it. Unless someone else has messed with the porting/head most esr setups will run fine. A lot of people expect to be able to throw it together and run perfect. I have never had that happen with any setup I have built.

I am confident that most esr setups will run well when tunned correctly. I don't think they are 70 hp good but they should not disappoint.

[machwon]

Here's a comparison for informations sake. Wonder if a 350PV will easily out duel a yfz450? Its a bone stock yfz 450 in the red graph vs. the mx ported 350 pv in the blue graph. Pretty close match up here, but I'd give the win in the end to the 350 pv.

[machwon]

Here is some more info, but this time I compared the 70 HP non pv 350 in the green graph to a YFZ that run a ported head, cam modded and an HMF slip on in the red graph. It gets a little more confusing but the YFZ also had a NOS bottle for the blue graph. I also know of another strong YFZ build that hits 60 HP without NOS, so its just an indicator of what a whoopin yfz could be like. The 60 HP non NOS yfz I know of had been trading wins with an 82 hp alky banshee motor I did. The torque curves of a well built 4 stroke can be impressive...