Battery or kickstart

[jpfmotors]

I have an 06 450r and I just need some opinions on a question. starting my quad at and xc race it does not start like I want. My question is that I can make a box and mount a cbr 600 battery in front of my motor on the lower frame (better center of gravity, less strain on the subframe, and lots of starting power). or do I just install a kick start kit (more reliable, but more expensive). Any advise would be great.

[d3ktrix]

Just installing a larger cranking amp battery won't make the starter turn any faster. It just won't die as fast.
It is the voltage that controls the speed of the starter motor.
And the CBR battery is still 12v.

If you want the bike to start faster using a battery setup you would have to run dual batteries. Which can be done on the these bikes.
Someone wrote up a how-to guide on here a little while ago I think.

[Stryker1513]

I run a 24V set up and my quad fires if i even think about hitting the start button. I do believe that getting the jetting and valves spot on is about 90% of the battle. My quad will fire right up hot or cold as well as in gear.

I race XC as well and the 2 battery set up is def the way to go. I also have a kicker back up as well.

[atv fan 28]

maybe this will help ya. http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=416165&highlight=dual+batteries

[airmobile101]

Originally posted by Stryker1513
I run a 24V set up and my quad fires if i even think about hitting the start button. I do believe that getting the jetting and valves spot on is about 90% of the battle. My quad will fire right up hot or cold as well as in gear.

I race XC as well and the 2 battery set up is def the way to go. I also have a kicker back up as well.
Ditto, The 24v battery setup is the way to go. I took the cheapo method and cut a slot into the tool pouch and installed the second battery there.

[bwilliams450er]

I made a dual battery setup for my 06 450. Put both of them up front, including solenoid and wiring. cleans up the subframe pretty good. also thinning out my harness getting rid of the bs that i dont need.

[Scro]

Originally posted by bwilliams450er
I made a dual battery setup for my 06 450. Put both of them up front, including solenoid and wiring. cleans up the subframe pretty good. also thinning out my harness getting rid of the bs that i dont need.

I did this as well. It will change your handling charateristics though...for the bad, in my opinion. I think it could be made to work, but your shocks need to be changed to accomodate the extra weight up front. It seemed like it caused the front end to roll more in the corners because of that much weight being that high. It doesn't seem like much, but you are moving +/- 16 pounds from the rear to the front. That's 32 pounds difference in weight ratio.

It's good for a nice clean build, but for performance it's probably not the ideal spot. The ideal spot, in my opinion, is between the frame rails right in front of the motor (nice and low).

As far as kicker vs. e-start:

The kicker is far more reliable than e-start. I used to be a die-hard 24v fan. I recently switch to kickstart only. To me, they are about the same. If one is a little faster than the other, that little split second isn't going to make or break you over a 2 hour race unless you are running pro (and even then, I doubt it matter a whole lot). I've noticed that the fast pros at the midsouths (Lane, Estes, Ballance) can be dead last off the line and still be top 3 at the end of the first lap.

I think what is more important is your own reaction time. That is one of the most overlooked things when doing XC starts. If two people have the exact same setup, the person with the fastest reaction time is gonna be the first to the corner. Even if it's a couple tenths faster.

[jpfmotors]

scro thats were i was talking about putting the battery directly in front or the motor, I am alittle confused about people saying that the amps wont make my starter spin faster. I know for a fact my 12 v charger when i turn the amperage up to jump start a bike the starter will spin faster than if i have the amperage lower its not changing the voltage. I am not saying that 24 volt system will not turn the starter faster because I know it will, But as far as I know so will a 12 volt system with more cranking amps. so after the replys I am lening towards a kicker any way and just keep my starter on there the way it is.

[Stryker1513]

Originally posted by jpfmotors
scro thats were i was talking about putting the battery directly in front or the motor, I am alittle confused about people saying that the amps wont make my starter spin faster. I know for a fact my 12 v charger when i turn the amperage up to jump start a bike the starter will spin faster than if i have the amperage lower its not changing the voltage. I am not saying that 24 volt system will not turn the starter faster because I know it will, But as far as I know so will a 12 volt system with more cranking amps. so after the replys I am lening towards a kicker any way and just keep my starter on there the way it is.

yes, a battery with more CCA will spin the starter a little bit harder and faster than a battery with less CCA. If you can swing the $$ i would recomend both the kicker and the 24V setup. The 24V setup if fairly cheap.

[MossboysRacing]

you can buy the second battery mount box and everything from these guys, you just have to get the battery. great stuff and great people.

http://www.dirtworksmotorsports.com/

[warr72]

Well not a Honda anymore so give you all the little tricks that I learned along the way. Your quad needs to be tuned, that means valves adjusted spot on and rejet that fcr leak jet or get a power pump. I ran the 24 volt system as well and hands down this helps, but will not spin the starter faster. The last thing I wanted to do an hour in a race was kick anything covered in mud and sweat plus other racers smashing into the back of me. Plugs are another key thing that gets overlooked and I went one hotter and helped tremendously, but my quad was jetted for this. Also I trimmed the harness down to the bare essentials and ran a mix of race gas and high octane from the local gas pump. Your air filter needs to be clean and not too over oiled. On mine I also had both power blades in the carb boots. Also to get off the line you can take the two wires going to the clutch and solder them together so it will start in gear with the clutch out and fire up on the roll but needs to be tuned spot on. Scro is dead on about reaction time and don't look back. Them forearms still huge Scro, j/k, got that Rekluse for sale.

[racer 557]

hey d3ktrix not tryin to high jack the thread but are you running the gokie starter the shop were mine is says that this might be a problem why my bike wont start

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by racer 557
hey d3ktrix not tryin to high jack the thread but are you running the gokie starter the shop were mine is says that this might be a problem why my bike wont start

Nah my bike is kickstart.

[racer 557]

Originally posted by d3ktrix
Nah my bike is kickstart. but I thought you said u had both??

[racer 557]

My bad that was stykler that has duel but what year is your bike stykler and sorry I spelt it wrong dude

[jpfmotors]

My bike is very well tuned and it does start fine I know everyone stats that the valves need to be exact and the jetting perfect and the filter clean I do take care of all that. I am more looking for the edge. My bike starts perfect every time. like I said just looking for the edge on a dead engine start in xc racing. thanks for all the help I am still up in the air. I am not shore about another battery in the rear subframe I would think thats a lot more stress on the subframe I have heard and seen them brake with no extra weight on them so I am not shore.
Question for the e starts with a kicker at the start, as you are kicking over do you also press the starter butten thats what i would think to help start faster?

[Scro]

Originally posted by warr72
I ran the 24 volt system as well and hands down this helps, but will not spin the starter faster.

24 volts spins the starter twice as fast. That's why it helps.


Originally posted by jpfmotors
Question for the e starts with a kicker at the start, as you are kicking over do you also press the starter butten thats what i would think to help start faster?

I've got a friend that does that, and he believes it's faster. I think it's just all in his head though. You can do both at the same time, but the one that is turning the motor over the fastest is doing the actual cranking (which I would think is the 24v).

I would think that if you held down the button on a 24v system, and push down on the kicker, you wouldn't feel much resistance because the starter is already turning the motor and clutch assembly faster than what you can kick. And if you do feel resistance, that means that when you kick it, you are turning the motor over faster than the starter can. So what would be the point of holding down the start button? I hope this makes sense.

I believe my friend thinks it's faster because he is going through the motion of kicking (kick, sit down, on the gas), instead of just hitting the button and on the gas. The split second he would be waiting for it to crank with the e-start, would be about the same time it would take for him to sit down.

[jpfmotors]

Yes it makes sence but what if i had just the regular stock battery 12 volts and the kicker. same thing you think?

[Scro]

Originally posted by jpfmotors
Yes it makes sence but what if i had just the regular stock battery 12 volts and the kicker. same thing you think?

It's the same principle, which ever turns the motor over faster will be the one cranking. Which in the case of just 12v, more than likely it's gonna be the kicker.

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by jpfmotors
scro thats were i was talking about putting the battery directly in front or the motor, I am alittle confused about people saying that the amps wont make my starter spin faster. I know for a fact my 12 v charger when i turn the amperage up to jump start a bike the starter will spin faster than if i have the amperage lower its not changing the voltage. I am not saying that 24 volt system will not turn the starter faster because I know it will, But as far as I know so will a 12 volt system with more cranking amps. so after the replys I am lening towards a kicker any way and just keep my starter on there the way it is.

The current is like the available torque for a motor. Under a heavy load a motor that has more current available to it will be able to maintain it's speed better. Also the more load on a motor, the more current it will draw. The reason why a flooded bike kills the battery so much faster.
But more current will not increase the motors top RPM, it just won't bog down as easy.
So a larger CCA battery will do better if the bike is flooded or when ever there is more stress on it.
Your battery charger is supplying much more current then any single 12v battery that you could fit on ur your quad, that is why there is an actual noticeable difference.

With the 24v setup you are doubling the voltage (top speed/RPM) AND you are also doubling the motors available current.

So as a summary, more CCA might help the starter spin a tad faster due to the friction/compression of the engine it is turning over. But going from a TRX battery to a CBR battery I doubt you would see any real gains.

The 24v setup or a kicker setup is what is really going to turn that engine over significantly faster and get you off the line sooner.

[Stryker1513]

Originally posted by racer 557
My bad that was stykler that has duel but what year is your bike stykler and sorry I spelt it wrong dude

My quad is an 06 and it has the stock starter.

I also find that i can get going faster on the start with using the kick over the e start. I think you can put more force down on that kicker to fire that engine than the starter ever could.

I work it over till the piston is right at the bottom of the compression stroke and give it one good kick as i sit and get on the gas.

[jpfmotors]

one other question does anyone think that another battery on the subframe is more stress on the subframe.or to much stress

[Scro]

Originally posted by jpfmotors
one other question does anyone think that another battery on the subframe is more stress on the subframe.or to much stress

I know alot of people that mounted theirs behind the airbox, including me. Two of those people I know were breaking subframe bolts left and right. I never broke a bolt, or even had one come loose.

I think alot of it has to do with how you ride. I like to hover over the seat. I think they are more of sit-down type of rider. That right there makes a big difference. But I don't think 8 pounds is what caused theirs to break. If you add a subframe mount gusset to the frame, you definately won't have to worry about it.

[warr72]

With stock plastic you gotta chop the back part out and I ran my smaller battery (in size) in that location. Never broke my sub frame, but I would want the extra weight up front for sure. Trying same trick on the new one, but not as easy.