05 compared to the 06 and up......what do you prefer?

[/infamous/]

I race an 06 but was looking into riding an 05 setup for next years nationals. Is there any downfalls to the 05 compared to the 06 besides the obvious ones?....

[CRE Performance]

Ill tell you what, i rode an 05 for the longest, then it finally got wore completely out...frame, engine and all till I opted for a new platform. I bought a new 07 and for it to supposedly be the same bike, I think it was totally different. It feels to me like the peg height or something is different, or possibly the seat angle may be different. I now have both, an 05 and an 07 and both have 05 front geometry and I still feel the same way about how they feel when compared to one another. I really like the power and snappiness of my 07 (mainly because of the carb) but 05 just seems to handle better and feel better. Dont get me wrong, my 05 makes more power at the present time....but it took a +3 stroker, 02 CRF cam, white bros pipe for it to make the same amount of power as my 07 with an HRC headpipe and cam, w/ a motoworks slip on. Even after the head has been thouroughly massaged on the 05 (it makes 7 more HP) the 07 still feels just as fast if not faster in tight tracks.

If I have to buy another one to add to the collection, it will be an 05.

[BakerRacing40]

we just got done talking about this a few hours ago at sandtrax. from what i understand is the 05 spindles are the good of the front end and the 05 engine you can't produce as much power as you can with the newer models. i was basically told to stay away from the older ones...

no experience with either, just tellin what i hear..

[/infamous/]

Yea i know the 05s handle better but just this year Joe Byrd and Nick Denoble were still running the 05 model. Upperman runs the newer models though. Hmm sound to me like its just rider preferance

[Butter]

I'm pretty sure was documented that the '04-'05s have potential to make more power than the '06+. I would stick with the older ones until they produce an EFI bike. The trannys are much tougher, and the gearing is longer. But it does come down to what you like better. And if its just the snappiness of the throttle you like, put an FCR carb on, and its night and day different. Again, rider preference.

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by Butter
I'm pretty sure was documented that the '04-'05s have potential to make more power than the '06+. I would stick with the older ones until they produce an EFI bike. The trannys are much tougher, and the gearing is longer. But it does come down to what you like better. And if its just the snappiness of the throttle you like, put an FCR carb on, and its night and day different. Again, rider preference.

Agree'd, the biggest downfall on the 05 is the carb. Once you stick a bored FCR on it with some headwork it, it's amazing.
No matter how much work you do to the rest of the engine, the 05 throttle response is lame til you stick an FCR on it.

I just can't stand the 06+s for the same reason CRE was talking about, the seat is higher or something. Feels more like I'm sitting on a dirt bike then a quad.

[fastredrider44]

This topic has been beat on pretty good. But honestly, I still like my 05s. I probably wont change until I can't find any decent 05s anywhere. As long as it's a Honda, it doesn't matter.:blah:

[chad502ex]

I prefer to build 04/05 engines over the 06+...

:cool:

[blacknblue#2]

Ive dealt with many 04/05 and many 06+ quads. Im running what i call an 05/07 Production hybrid lol. Its an 05 frame and front end fitted with an 07 engine and swinger (the only reason for the 05 frame was because of price when i needed a frame other than that it woulda just had an 05 front end) Ive had bare 06+ frames and subs next to bare 05 frames and subs a couple times and there is no way for the seat height is different unless its in the seat itself which is possible. Like said its all preference. I like my 07 motor due to throttle response. We have some 05s in our group with FCRs, their not lacking the throttle response either but its more than just a carb that gives the 06+ the exact response it has. it has to do with the shorter stroke and bigger bore.....just my .02

[fastredrider44]

Also stock motors have different compression. I believe the 05 is 10.5:1 and 06 up is 12:1. I could be wrong though.

[Rich250RRacer]

Originally posted by blacknblue#2
Ive dealt with many 04/05 and many 06+ quads. Im running what i call an 05/07 Production hybrid lol. Its an 05 frame and front end fitted with an 07 engine and swinger (the only reason for the 05 frame was because of price when i needed a frame other than that it woulda just had an 05 front end) Ive had bare 06+ frames and subs next to bare 05 frames and subs a couple times and there is no way for the seat height is different unless its in the seat itself which is possible. Like said its all preference. I like my 07 motor due to throttle response. We have some 05s in our group with FCRs, their not lacking the throttle response either but its more than just a carb that gives the 06+ the exact response it has. it has to do with the shorter stroke and bigger bore.....just my .02

The difference in seat height has been discussed on here before and it's shown in the sales brouchure for the 06 model. The seat on the 06-newer 450's is shorter in height AND the footpegs are lower by almost an inch (not where they mount to the frame, there's just less of a rise on the newer pegs). Some of the aftermarket companies that produce pegs don't even recognize this and just make one height peg. As for the seats, the 06-newer foam will break down and crumble more easily because of the lower height. It gets smashed down against the seat pan on the sides and begins to fall apart.

[/infamous/]

Okay i know that the 06 and up put out more horsepower than the 05 stock. But my practice bike is an 06, the motor has a 13.5:1 JE piston, oversized valves, Sparks cam, full system Sparks exhaust, K&N filter, etc...... the 05 im looking to get has, CP 14.1 piston, honda up dated Crank, Stage 2 hot cam, new cylinder, New head ported and polished, KW Valves, springs, All new bearings and seals for whole motor, and Rossiar Full system exhaust......whats gonna have more power on a national track..?

[blacknblue#2]

Originally posted by Rich250RRacer
The difference in seat height has been discussed on here before and it's shown in the sales brouchure for the 06 model. The seat on the 06-newer 450's is shorter in height AND the footpegs are lower by almost an inch (not where they mount to the frame, there's just less of a rise on the newer pegs). Some of the aftermarket companies that produce pegs don't even recognize this and just make one height peg. As for the seats, the 06-newer foam will break down and crumble more easily because of the lower height. It gets smashed down against the seat pan on the sides and begins to fall apart.

Thanks for the info Rich, never knew the pegs theirself were different. Im runnin the same nerfs with pegs that i had on my 05 that i bought new so that could be why i never could tell any difference.

[fmfhonda250r]

Originally posted by /infamous/
Okay i know that the 06 and up put out more horsepower than the 05 stock. But my practice bike is an 06, the motor has a 13.5:1 JE piston, oversized valves, Sparks cam, full system Sparks exhaust, K&N filter, etc...... the 05 im looking to get has, CP 14.1 piston, honda up dated Crank, Stage 2 hot cam, new cylinder, New head ported and polished, KW Valves, springs, All new bearings and seals for whole motor, and Rossiar Full system exhaust......whats gonna have more power on a national track..?
All depends on who ported the head on the 05 and if it has a fcr. If it doesnt have a fcr or a very good ported head the 06 should out run it.

[fmfhonda250r]

Originally posted by /infamous/
Okay i know that the 06 and up put out more horsepower than the 05 stock. But my practice bike is an 06, the motor has a 13.5:1 JE piston, oversized valves, Sparks cam, full system Sparks exhaust, K&N filter, etc...... the 05 im looking to get has, CP 14.1 piston, honda up dated Crank, Stage 2 hot cam, new cylinder, New head ported and polished, KW Valves, springs, All new bearings and seals for whole motor, and Rossiar Full system exhaust......whats gonna have more power on a national track..?
All depends on who ported the head on the 05 and if it has a fcr. If it doesnt have a fcr or a very good ported head the 06 should out run it.

[fastredrider44]

Agreed, but either the way, I wouldn't be surprised if the 05 had more top end pull right before you shift. But without the FCR, the power may not come on quite as quick.

[Lquad71]

where do you get an fcr carb?

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by Lquad71
where do you get an fcr carb?

Ebay or the Forsale forums on here would probably be cheapest.

CRF450R Carbs (07's an up are 41mm)
YFZ Carbs
TRX 06+ Carbs

All of those are FCR's
YFZ carbs normally sell for around $150. CRFs go for a little more, $200-300.

Or you could order 1 from a dealer/service honda for $400+

[Lquad71]

which of these do most people run for trx450 2005?

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by Lquad71
which of these do most people run for trx450 2005?

Dunno never took a poll :P

My personal favorite is the CRF because it will fit under the 05 gas tank with out having to cut down the throttle housing on the carb.
Also it comes with hotstart already.

If you want hotstart on the YFZ and 06+ TRX carbs you have to have it drilled out. And are 39mm.

Earlier year CRF450R carbs were 39or40mm, the 07+ are 41mm and have a redesigned accelerator pump setup I think.

The average price for getting an 07 CRF bored to 43.5mm is $240-280 from what I have seen.

And you will also need a NOSS / Ratstack adapter.

So your looking at ~ $250 for the carb, ~$250 for boring, $75 for NOSS adapter.

If you plan on getting it bored the cheapest way to do it is buy a used 1 from someone that already had it bored and take advantage of their loss.

[Butter]

You don't HAVE to bore the carb though. Just putting one on makes a huge difference. And def. search for the best deals on an already setup for '04-'05. I got an '07 TRX FCR already setup with the NOSS adapter and jetted for a big motor for $150. Best thing I did on my race bike!

[Lquad71]

so if i just get a crf450 carb and pop that in i dont need anything else? Oh yea and what year crf?

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by Lquad71
so if i just get a crf450 carb and pop that in i dont need anything else? Oh yea and what year crf?

Just need the carb and an airboot adapter. Either NOSS (http://www.nossmachine.com/honda_quad_parts.htm) or DASA (http://www.dasaracing.com/sitepages/DasaRacingHondaATVnew.html)

And rewire the TPS plug to fit the 05 harness plug.
I unpinned the plug from my stock 05 carb and slipped it onto the TPS wires on the CRF carb.

People have typed up how-to's here on the forums for wiring the TPS.

[Lquad71]

is wiring the TPS hard to do? and what year carb?

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by Lquad71
is wiring the TPS hard to do? and what year carb?

Any year will work.

Here is what the wires have to look like on each side.
Just unpin the plug from ur stuck carb and stick it on the CRF TPS wires so it match's up like in the picture.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh6/d3ktrix/post-1345-1200369018.jpg

[Lquad71]

do the wires just pop out? then you put them in the black plastic thing?

Where can i find a carb and adapter for sale?
Thanks for all the help too.:)

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by Lquad71
do the wires just pop out? then you put them in the black plastic thing?

Where can i find a carb and adapter for sale?
Thanks for all the help too.:)

You have to use a pointy pick tool to bend the clips inside the plug to get each wire to pop out. Its pretty easy.

I put links in one of my previous posts for the NOSS and DASA adapters.
The NOSS adapter u can order right on their site. The DASA u have to call to order it.

[quadbeast3]

Josh are you building andys old bike for a race bike, and keeping yours for a back up?

[BadinBlack]

i prefer the 05 motor with a high comp piston and fcr car over the 06+. the handling and ride of the 05 is better also IMO and i have both an 05 and 06...