another case

[5852jake]

Well I bought an engine from a member on ds450hq and what do you know, the case is cracked. Not sure if he knew or not. The crack starts at the split between the cases and goes up above the mount. You can catch your finger on it at one part.
OPTIONS- since I used pay pal and he said it was good send it back. That may be a battle.
- get it welded.
- shot peen it but I think it may be all the way through at one part.
Your input?

[TNT]

Originally posted by 5852jake
Well I bought an engine from a member on ds450hq and what do you know, the case is cracked. Not sure if he knew or not. The crack starts at the split between the cases and goes up above the mount. You can catch your finger on it at one part.
OPTIONS- since I used pay pal and he said it was good send it back. That may be a battle.
- get it welded.
- shot peen it but I think it may be all the way through at one part.
Your input?

DON"T shot peen it if your not a equipped professional it will get worse!!. ....everyone get that idea out of your heads I put in it....I was talking about micro-shot peening of "surface cracks" by professionals!

Can you take some pics...we've seen some successful welds if you can find a good aluminum welder. All the way to case split may mean taking it all apart since the gasket can't take the heat.

Once welded there a engine bearing mod where the bolt goes that may help keep it from happening again.

[LTMFB]

So is there a preventable measure one can take? I'll be picking my bike up here pretty soon..

TIA

[ZX11]

I don't think you can prevent it. I am a trail rider and normally ride utility atv's. I ride pretty easy and my case still cracked. Warranty will cover it.

I know someone on here welded the area to fix his cracked case.

See if the seller will pay to get it welded. He knew of the crack.

[TNT]

There was an update to the 08 engine bolt sleeve or the bolt where the swing arm goes through can't remember, a cheap 2-bit sleeve plain bearing type. I'm guessing it keeps load off this area of the case. You know, we know the 09 now 2010 cases with a different part # are not cracking, just SOME 08's....that may very well be from this sleeves tolerances and fit that keeps the motor from twisting in it's mount or load from the swing off it. We don't know for a fact that the new 09-2010 case was thickened to offset this load. If I were an 08 owner it's cheap reassurance, I think theres a service bullitin out there.

[blaster99]

Well, my case cracked at a race, so I used jb weld to fill the crack and I layered it on pretty thick. This was in august, and I rode a lot until the middle of October, and the epoxy isn't cracked and the crack hasn't grown. I know its not a correct fix, but it helps for sure.

[5852jake]

So if im understanding right, there shouldn't be a problem welding it up to where the cases split. I let a welder look at it and he was worried about messing stuff up behind the crack while welding but says he can do it. It will be similar to what comander420 did in the photo. The mount update was not done on my cracked engine but was done on my original engine and it has not cracked with more than 50 hours of riding.

[TNT]

I checked the properties of permatex and JB weld high strengths and Devon epoxy was a little higher...you could try it and it should hold up but you can make that call since I have not seen it. Then eventually your going to need to split that case, rebuild it clean it etc a good time to weld and try and keep heat away from the mating surfaces and any internal parts...thats what I'd do anyway.

Sounds like the mount update has fixed the issue like I thought.

[ZX11]

Originally posted by TNT

Sounds like the mount update has fixed the issue like I thought.

I'm not so sure. My DS450 had the mount update done by the dealer before it was shipped to me. The case cracked at 4 hours on the bike.

There is the posibility that the dealer didn't do the update. You know how reliable can am dealers are. But the clutch update was done correctly so they may have done what they said.

[TNT]

Originally posted by ZX11
I'm not so sure. My DS450 had the mount update done by the dealer before it was shipped to me. The case cracked at 4 hours on the bike.

There is the posibility that the dealer didn't do the update. You know how reliable can am dealers are. But the clutch update was done correctly so they may have done what they said.

I'm not sure either, but heres the way I look at it. You know you got a problem here and that is there is unwanted load getting to the engine.....Couple of choices come to mind. First find out where the load is coming from and difuse it, # 2 thicken the case up to offset it(eg: 09/010 cases?). #2 will cause a costly die casting change and is a bandade since the load can now travel to another place on the case possible making matters worse and is risky, it has to be diffused off the engine entirely IE: stiffen the mount. Maybe they thickened it thats why they rolled part numbers who knows?

Lot of times it's hard to tell if a problem is fixed and some may creep by but if the majority are fixed(09/010) leave well enough alone. ;)

[comander420]

That picture of my case had the mount update done and it still cracked in 5 hours with only XC riding on it. No jumps or MX stuff. If your crack is in the same area as mine you shouldn't have any issues welding it TIG doesn't generate all that much heat if you have a good welder. And if your worried put a cold wet rag around the area you are concerned about it takes a good amount of heat to warm up water.

[5852jake]

Well I went ahead and welded it. It looks good and yes it was in the exact same place as yours comander420. It is in the bike now but I'm confused over two connectors that are exactly the same above the head.

[TNT]

What connectors above the head, they all connect to the EFI systems...theres a speedometer that connects to nothing.

[5852jake]

I figured it out. I somehow lost the MAPS sensor. That sucks.

[TNT]

Ouch thats at least a $70 loss....you might try that Jermey parts thread below.

[5852jake]

Ya its more like 87$ on bikebandit.com. I'll look for it tomorrow, there's not too many places it can be. Thanks for the help.

[400exc]

Not trying to steal this post, but what exactlly is the mount update? Mine is supposed to go in for that soon.

[5852jake]

The original 2008 mount has 2 separate sleeves that press into the mount. The up dated mount sleeve is one solid piece running through mount hole. The dealer uses a drill bit designed specifically for this to bore out the engine mount in order to fit the larger diameter sleeve.
I got the engine in but it won't start. It turns over but doesn't seem to get a spark. It has brand new plugs so I'm going to replace the wire ends. Also when I turn the key off there is a faint clicking noise up by the throttle body. Is this normal?

[LTMFB]

What do you mean "update?" Is this supposed to be done by the dealer before I pick it up along w/the other service bulletins?

[ZX11]

The noise is the same by my throttle body when I turn off the key. Sounds like small gears turning then "chut, chut, chut" as they come to a stop. Pretty faint.

[5852jake]

Sweet, glad the noise is normal. Make sure the dealer does the update before you pick it up. You can't tell with the awing arm on. They should know what to do. Has anyone had problems with the spark plug wires. Are NGK wires from hotseatpowersports the only ones in aftermarket.

[TNT]

Seems like there was a prob w/08 wires and ends, read this under ignition: http://atv.off-road.com/atv/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=567453&pageID=2


other than that both plugs fire at the same time independantly, only way they won't is if there is a short in the primary coil winding. Theres a 20 amp main fuse and 5 amp ecm fuse under the seat that will keep both plugs from firing. If the relay, on swith and engine shut off swith are working normal theres a 15 amp ignition fuse LS side holder.

Theres a violet/blue and brown/orange wire at the input coils, put the voltage meter to them and chassis ground with the engine and ignition switch on measure battery voltage.

That click noise might be the throttle plate seating from the idle control valve is all that is by the tb.

More I read about that bushing more it seems like the fix for the cracks altho there are some exceptions, like I said due to tolerances. I hope that special drill is a close ream and the bushing is installled w/an interference fit.

[comander420]

No I don't think it is the fix. If you look at my case where I had it welded the bushing is actually pushed down. It can be moved with slight effort, not loose but not tight either. I think welding will be the fix for me.

[TNT]

We got 08 cases in a 09 no crack yet......something fixed it in 09 and it doesn't appear to be case on ours yet. I don't know weird one. I'm just hoping we don't crack and will build the area up with Devon to prevent it, we have the mount update in the 09 motor since we moved the bushing over from the 09 cases we ruined.

Since it's not clear some crack some don't with the new bushing it makes perfect sense to NOT take the chance and get the mount update, if it still cracks weld it.

Al welds this alloy casted 5XXX series doesn't usually hold up if it's still seeing this much load we shall see. I'd put the Devcon on outside the welds still blend into the weld smoothly.

Recommend get the mount update if you don't have it build the area up w/Devcon, JB weld, or Permatex on 08/early 09 cases to help keep it from cracking, two low cost preventions.

[LTMFB]

So.....would it be a good idea to get the VIN number of the bike that I'm buying from the dealer and call BRP to see what service bulletins need to be done to compare and make sure they are completed before I pick up the bike?

Just curious!

[5852jake]

Yes I would make sure all the bulletins are done. The clutch, mine went out after about 5 rides; limp mode took about 3 rides before it kicked in, and the engine mount. Like I said my original engine has the update and never cracked but others have. I would apply a welding compound even after the update just to be safe.

[TNT]

You all that have welded I seen the specs on this series al 5000 series it does not weld good like 6130, it will fail/crack where the bead meets the OEM casting and a heat cycle weakened the casting...you'd be safer to put some epoxy there and blend it into the weld.

[Racers Dad 37]

Originally posted by comander420
No I don't think it is the fix. If you look at my case where I had it welded the bushing is actually pushed down. It can be moved with slight effort, not loose but not tight either. I think welding will be the fix for me.

The sleeve should be Loctited in place with LOCTITE 648 ( green )
BRP part # 413 711 400

[TNT]

Originally posted by Racers Dad 37
The sleeve should be Loctited in place with LOCTITE 648 ( green )
BRP part # 413 711 400

Ah ha! The missing element. :D What I like about you RD ALWAYS on top of things. :D

[TNT]

So once the new single bushing is installed correctly I think it is the fix. There is a bond gap between the busing and the case is what RD is saying he's just a little shy lol, thats why it's loose not an interference fit which makes sense, without the locktite/new bushing will cause the crack welded or not. Your welds JB or real WILL fail in time without the new bushing seal.

Everyone needs to pull the bearing out or get the updated one lock tite it in including my son who I doubt did it. If it needs to be replaced some heat will break the seal.

I'm still putting epoxy on the crack area to be safe. :D

[5852jake]

Well I couldn't find another wire end for the inner spark plug. I have the NGK kit on order, but should this thing start with only one spark plug wire connected (outer)?

[TNT]

Never tried it, but you'd think so but may run like crap....Both plugs are fed independantly out of the ECU to each coil according to the wire diagram. They fire at the same time for better ignition only. Did you check battery voltage at the input coil like to told you? I find it hard to believe BOTH plug wires are totally bad. You know how to do resistance checks on wires? Put a ohm meter set to a low value you should get some resistance when probeing both ends of the wire, if you get infinity there is an open or short in the wire or end. Or turn the quad with the end off and next to the plug and look for spark, there are also low cost spark testers at the auto store, you can see the spark in a glass tube.

[5852jake]

I pulled the plug out and hit start. It's getting a spark and I feel the compression blowing out the top of the head. I switched wire ends and the inner is bad.

[TNT]

Did you feel some fuel coming out, a mist? hear the pump working? Maybe it needs both plugs working I really dunno, you'd think one do the trick. Let me know. :confused: