what programmer is the best

[draygarcia]

ok i am going to put a cppistion in and iasked what else i need and they said that i need a programmer so i was wondering what everyone else recomond would be the best one for me and or the best one out there for the price i putting a 13.6:1 pistion and i have a motorworks sr4 slip on any help

[KlausiDs450]

for your Setup i think is te PowerCommander5 the best, and on the Dyno to fine Tune.

[draygarcia]

ok thanks i check into those i dont have a dyno around here to do that so i not sure

[TNT]

PC 5 is the best but not cheap, last I checked you pay around $300 for the module and another $200 or so for the O2 sensor which you will drill a hole in your exhaust and mount. PC 3 is a good unit too for many applications no O2 no hole in exhaust. You have a pipe and now adding a HC piston if you plan on adding long duration cams, ports, bigger throttle body and injector, etc in the future and really moding your quad out to top performance for advanced racing in the next year or two then yes spend the money now get the PC 5, or get the PC 3 save some $. Later in the future since you can not use the PC 3 with the O2 PC 3 can be a spare or sell and put PC 5 on your quad.

In any case, your going to need a dyno in your area Dray, they will pull up a fuel/air curve on a PC and tune you a MAP......whats important about this costly adventure $100+ for a good one is to let the tuner know where you want torque and power so they can try and put more bottom end torque or top end hp where you want it....Look for a dyno that is "eddy current" Dynojet" and put loads on your quad at certain rpm like you were riding the track and if you tell them what gear say you want more power at they can tune to that RPM......PC 5 has better tunning capibilities since it can to tune to 5% throttle, PC 3 10%.

Great thing about PC 5 is once tuned the O2 sensor gives a feed that allows the Module to readjust to loads on the track by fuel delivery. You'll notice improved throttle response to PC 3.

[TNT]

Originally posted by draygarcia
ok thanks i check into those i dont have a dyno around here to do that so i not sure

If you don't have a dyno close by or don't want to spend the money right now to deal with then I think you should wait on the HC piston just get your head on and bike running with the new pipe and lets see how it runs........then later we can build some mods that will give you more power when you find a dyno but at that time since it's so far away you may want to consider more than a hc piston to make it worth your while.....:D

We may find you need a fuel controller now with your new SR4 I think it was or did it run ok with the new pipe before the head blew? How far is the closet dyno and is it a Dynojet Eddy current load dyno...see if you can locate one of those somewhere call the motorcycle shops the street bikes use them got to be around somewhere....

[TNT]

Do you have access to race fuel or E-85?

[draygarcia]

i found a dyno and i found race fuel at a shop about 20 miles away so ya i think i can do it i going to buy a programmer i thinking about a dyno jet or something tnt what other kinda mods do you think will also help me get more power and stuff or what you taking about

[TNT]

Originally posted by draygarcia
i found a dyno and i found race fuel at a shop about 20 miles away so ya i think i can do it i going to buy a programmer i thinking about a dyno jet or something tnt what other kinda mods do you think will also help me get more power and stuff or what you taking about

Hmmm lets see....The intake track from the filter to the intake manifold needs smoothing out in a few different ways.......

Did you get rid of the plastic intake yet or rubber can't remember replace with a metal one BRP makes one or BCS and get a bigger filter like K$N?....I'd send you to FCI which imo opinion is best but it's not ready yet thanks to me lol... call BCS or Moroworks or both see whats available and get rid of the intake/stock foam filter it robs power...that should not cost alot.

Look around for someone locally that can port or roughen your intake like mine(look on my TNT Build thread page 2 pics note my intake and filter, long duration Web cams on right(stock left) too another big expense), and then look at my exhaust port toward the beginning of the thread it's smoother or you may want to consider sending your head to MW's since you run thier pipe ......Also in the pics I show the intake manifold elboe fitting it has a nasty bend that needs some smoothing out at the fillet radius/bend. I don't buy that porting is some rocket science especially without using a flow bench to verify the port per motor.....look for anyone that has done it on any race motor like cars or bikes they will know how to cone it down(intake up(exhaust)....tell them the EFI you run most rough the intake smooth the exhaust, show them my pics...All that will gain you few foot-lbs of torque and hp, like at least 3-5......ok and set you up for a better dyno run.

We could go to Web and get some cams(look at mine) and you could buy or make the 50-52mm throttle body....if you find talk to race shops you could ask them if they can bore your throttle body to 50-52mm safely and make you a butterfly valve cheap....up to you now we are getting deep into mods to buy the TB close to $500 BRP, then you may need the next bigger injector now we getting into some cost unless you get the throttle body bored cheap it's the biggest expense, that and cams but when done you'll have some screaming power...just how far you want to go? Theres also some tricks to timing MW's can help you with call them, they want these quads to win racers and are good helpers.

I'm going to run two dyno test soon on a carb yam and our DS just to verify E-85 is Ethonal pump gas gets the same power as expensive race fuel w/ a 13.5 and let you all know. We have not found that 14X:1 hc pistons don't get any more than 13X:1.

[TNT]

Other thing I forgot to mention is talk to your dyno guy I beleive and I am not clear on this if you took your throttle body off you have to get it recalibrated to zero....I hear the PC3/5 can do this but I am not sure actually I don't think so it has to be by Budds/Dealer which is far from you....I know we went to a race w/ a PC 3 dyno tune not knowing this and we were dieing alot from throttling, well the guys on the Warnert team helped us out and hooked us up to budds at the track, Rage was there and reset our throttle body.....that solved some of our problem but little did we know we were racing with a slightly blown head gasket....we were all scratching our heads since we were showing a coolant fault code in budds that indicated a coolant sensor or pump prob but it was the head gasket....lol! Live and learn.

Dray I don't want you to go to a place you cant handle or equipped tooling wise or is too far away and know how to get access to....maybe it be best if you get the intake shrowd/KN filter if you don't already have it the metal one, try and get a port done, call it good with the pipe and hc 13.5 CP piston then get a PC3 and dyno tune..I don't know what level you race at but if its not the A national class this is all you need that you can maintain without a lot of expense and know how.

Meantime don't mess with that throttle body it's sensor(TPS) too much it's very sensitive and can throw everything off. :D

[TNT]

Ok I remember wiretech a programmer got on here once and said the PC does NOT see the ECU....So you would need to go to a dealer w/budds to recalibrate your TPS if you bore your TB....maybe not a good idea for you buddy since they are so far away. :D

BRP or aftermarket company: We are in dire need of a programmable ECU so we can tailor it to our motor, drop budds it has little to no capabilites on a "race ready quad" including the ECU limp mode we racers all need to send to Canada to remove some at shipping and processing cost and approval of your x-racer program not to mention the impact on your staff/man hours.......no more fuel controllers PC3/5 :devil: :confused: :rolleyes: :D

Look what happens when you got no access to a dealer/budds at the track which can cause DNS's or probs in remote areas or Dealers that got no idea!....at least sell the software or provide it free of charge as a package to your x-team members and save us both time and money.

[TNT]

So the answer to "what programmer is best?" BRP ECU if they get thier s*** together lol! :D

[draygarcia]

thanks tnt makes since

[TNT]

No prob man talk to Rage-Dee too I don't care what they all say about each other that Dee is one smart mechanic worth his weight in gold and his wife Michele are close to you smart dude/wife been around a while has a history w/top pros did not just fall off the DS450 or ATV turn-up truckl....:D

I got a new local mechanic or id send you to him but we are still learning experimenting. If i didn't work 70 + hrs/week on airplanes to keep my kid on the track Id do it myself and beat them all hands and wrenches down! :D

MW's, BCS, Rage and not in that order best choices for advice on this quad....we can only hope they share thier professional experiences and we grow world wide.

We were just talking about Rage today I think he designed his own 450 HC piston, my son said he was saying that at LL we are going to call him find out more.

[Racers Dad 37]

Check out

http://www.rossiereng.com/products.php?product=1192137435

http://www.atvsport.com/output.cfm?id=1699561

[TNT]

Originally posted by Racers Dad 37
Check out

http://www.rossiereng.com/products.php?product=1192137435

http://www.atvsport.com/output.cfm?id=1699561


So around 7-8, 000 rpm from bone stock air filter to Rossier air kit a .6 hp gain ...that won’t even be felt? Ran a little lean so clip the pink to gain another .7 hp...so,1.3 hp gain with Rossier air-kit pink cut huh? I would think that won’t be felt much either, most would say once they took thier lid and arrestor off cut the pink with the stock pipe was feeling more than 1.3 hp with NO after-market air kit.

Put a Rossier pipe on gained 4.5 hp @ 8500 rpm...sounds reasonable!

Added some air box holes gained .2 hp, hmmm dyno is +/- .1 so thats interesting if it really was effective? And I’d have to wonder how that effected the EFI AAPTS? It needs to stay clean and read pressure and temp in the box, well ambient.

Ported head about 3hp gain, sounds reasonable.

Picked up 2hp from Web Cams, I’d expect more.....I’ve seen adjustables on YAM YFZr find 4-5 hp, we are going to try it our DS soon.

I wish they would have shown some Tq #s , what load they were under and correction factor. Shown some results from a bigger TB and injector.

These guys are good too forgot about them...good article!

I like the part about the dyno being accurate to +/-.1 when most results or operators won’t back results between dyno’s to +/- 5 hp.... some just have old dyno's.

There’s alot more capabilities of EFI dyno’ing than carb I’ll post on my TNT Build thread here soon....

[Racers Dad 37]

48.8 HP Stock Bore 450, Stock Piston don't think that to bad

[TNT]

Dray I was reading on the Dynojet website and it says you can get the PC5 and add the auto tune "universal kit" now or later......Says if you're a do-it-your-selfer it will tune your quad atomatically no dyno center needed.....Ill call these guys tomorrow I want a better understanding of this, if you want to hold off on your purchase Ill let you know what they say....Sounds like they got maps you can download then access by switch on the unit or just use thier maps and autotuner programmed in.....this might be ideal for your situation.

[draygarcia]

hey tnt ya see what you find out i wont have the money for one for about a month so ya but this my number my name derrick 575 791 2715 see what you find out or can get me that does sound like it would really be best for me to do that maybe if we just tell them what i have i going to have a cp pistion 13.6:1 a slip on motoworks sr4 and i will have a k and n air filter maybe they can tell me what best or help make a programmer or something that can help me thanks tnt

[TNT]

Ok talked to PC and Derrick AKA Dray today thought I’d share what I found out.......PC5 recommends getting the initial map close then the auto tuner will adjust. So Dray or ppl in his situation need an initial dyno tune. Later depending on the severity of the MODS a remap/dyno tune may be required just depends on how the quad is performing. You can also purchase the PC 5 now auto tuner later....PC 5 $369.95, auto tuner ATE-200 $250....should work on 08/09 the same since it intercepts/mods the injector.

I’m trying to put together the details of how these piggy backs/ECU’s work and will post on my TNT Build thread once I got it in a form that most can understand including me. :D