Has this happened to you???

[bigH]

I have found myself in a unbelieveable situation and am looking for input/advice. My family owns 88 acres of land in rural Carroll County. I got a phone call today from the local newspaper. The reporter wanted to discuss our riding on our own property and noise violations. We have been riding on this property for four years. We ride one day during the weekend. It is a family event in which all ride ages 6-63. The police have been called to the property while we ride. We have been sound checked and have never been over the limit. The police have never found a violation and have stopped responding to the individuals complaints. We have a mx track which we stratigically built away from homes. The distance from the closest house and the track is a 1/4 mile. They are trying to stop us from riding on own property. Any ideas how to handle??

Give em the finger and show them the deed to your land. Your property you can do whatever the hell you want.

[atvnut22]

buy em a case of ear plugs :o

[Tommy Warren]

get an old 3 wheeler....cut the muffler off....tape the throttle open....start er up....go inside and play video games

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by DMC-4OOEX
Give em the finger and show them the deed to your land. Your property you can do whatever the hell you want.


unfortunately it doesn't work that way...anymore...I've seen to many of my friends forced to shut down tracks on there own property. Just recently one almost lost his home after the enormous legal fee's almost bankrupt him.


My advise is to hire a lawyer IMEDIATLY!!! Take to offensive before your put on the defensive in court. If you have reporters coming out they, the haters, are already taking steps for legal action. Once the article comes out they will get a lot more support from the naysayers

[extremeblastr]

woooo love the immature responses guys. if they paper is really looking for an interview talk to them, tell them about the reasons you and your family love the sport and how many other people do it for the same reason and how upset you are that people like your neighbor who dislike it for no real reason are trying to take it away from you.

[gcart2]

Actually, dont listen to any of them ^^ (edit: except black sheep) (edit again: extremeblastr is correct also) unless you do want to pay the fines..

A friend of mine has a crazy mx track. rides a kfx250 (kawaskai 250 4 stroke, not sure exact name). stock bike except suspension. bike is well under noise requirements. he ended up taking the charges (which came from an individual calling repeatedly) to court. fought, and won.

however he has been set specific hours of riding time. the hours are very reasonable and are something like 8-8.

[Pappy]

Carroll County MD has already established the laws needed to shut him down. Thats just one reason I moved out of there!

Be very wary about how you talk to reporters, you can shoot yourself and atv riding in the foot very easily. The man who owns this site lives in Caroll County and may be willing to help you pen a response or work with the reporter.

[atvnut22]

yea, iwasnt being serious, things like this have to be dealt with carefully. many areas have been shut down around here becuase of noise levels. my buddy even had the cops called on him cause his lwanmower had a exhaust leak and annoyed the neighbors.:rolleyes:

[bigH]

I meet with the reporter on Friday the 18th at 11am. Any intelligent suggestions would be appreciated. Pappy if you could get me in touch with the owner of this site that would be greatly appreciated.

[bigH]

I meet with the reporter on Friday the 18th at 11am. Any intelligent suggestions would be appreciated. Pappy if you could get me in touch with the owner of this site that would be greatly appreciated.

[brian76708]

i have a buddy that has a track at his house that his one neighbor insists on calling the cops almost every other time we ride. finally this last summer the cops stopped responding. The cops never checked are db's and just said they would rather see us riding then getting into trouble.

[Tommy Warren]

if you have the equipment and dirt you could build a big dirt wall to cut back the noise....that way it will look like you tried at least

[ricksmx865]

Someone else mentions setting specific times to ride. This is how we delt with my uncles neighbor. Sometimes playing a little ball goes a long way.

good luck

[kfx400rider03]

i dont realy get how they can be calling the cops for a noise complaint during the day? i could see if your riding lat at night.

and if you do have your spark arrestors out put them in and tell them they can check the db levels on your quads

as said before make an agreement on times. like weekd days 8am till 7pm riding times and weekends 8 am till 9pm

[slightlybent47]

I know this is off topic but it shows how good a neighbor be.
I had an old bob wire fence in between me and the neighbor. One day he asked if he could take the fence down and replace it with a new chain link fence.
Now my fence was old and it had about fifty large trees growing up through the wire, he wanted to put the fence on my side of the tree line and I said no because it would be two feet of the line in his favor. I told him he could put it on his side or cut the trees down and put it back on the property line where it is supposed to be. So he agreed to remove the trees, and he started to work. Well before he got half way through the job he ran out of room to put all the tree wood, so to show good faith I told him he could put the rest on my side and I would burn it later. And he agreed.

Now this guy had been calling the EPA no me every time I light a fire. We live in a rural area and everyone here has 4-5 Acer lots and most have horses and we like to have a fire from time to time. He has even called the EPA on me for having a fire in my fireplace in the house.
So in good faith I let him put the wood on my place, and he knew I was going to burn it before he put it there.
Several months go by and he burns the pile he had on his side from the fence trees.
Then a month later I burn the pile he put over on my place, and guess what, that rat called the EPA on me for burning the pile of wood he put over here.

So don’t count on them cooperating with you, it don’t mean they wont but it don’t mean they will ether.
By the way the EPA has seed I was perfectly legal to burn and I had done nothing wrong.
He has called no less then 30 times over the years and I keep a record of every time he calls. The last time I met him at the fence line and told him I had a record of all the calls and was going to sue him for harassment and the calls stopped.

Good lock i hope you win the day.

[slightlybent47]

When you talk to the reporter, be honest and sincere and try very calmly to explain that you are just trying to have some safe family fun with your kids and family. And you never meant to annoy anyone and you are trying to work with the neiabor. Let them know you are taking an active roll in your kids and you are trying to give them a safe drug free environment for them. And remember never let them see you get upset, just stay cool and calm for now.

[muddy400EX]

god i hate people.

if you really do get shut down, you should buy a harley and rip up and down the road at 3 in the morning, because harleys never get in trouble for noise. i know that is very immature, but its your own damn land!

[Black Sheep]

If your running stock exhaust you have a trump card. All stock exhaust have to be U.S.F.A. which is a federal standard/law. Federal Law always takes precedent over state and Local law...including noise ordinance.

I have used this one myself twice in successfully defending my right to ride. Once on public property and once on private property.

FYI these sound limits are all below what lawnmowers, weed whackers, snow blowers, leaf blowers, and chain saws are.

again i can't stress enough to talk to a lawyer before doing anything...including talking to reporters.

the reporter will act like your friend to get you to open up...then he/she will edit there column for sensationalism. he/she won't care about you or your rights.

[destey]

Originally posted by slightlybent47
When you talk to the reporter, be honest and sincere and try very calmly to explain that you are just trying to have some safe family fun with your kids and family. And you never meant to annoy anyone and you are trying to work with the neiabor. Let them know you are taking an active roll in your kids and you are trying to give them a safe drug free environment for them. And remember never let them see you get upset, just stay cool and calm for now.


Sorry this is not good advice. The media has an objective. They go to a place with the end result in mind and whatever you say doesn't matter. They will take the 1 sentence out of the 300 you say and use it against you. Do not trust them it is their mission to F you and this sport.

This battle you are fighting is being fought all over the place. Its a war between those who believe in private property and those who think you live to make your neighbors happy. In the end the govt can do whatever they want, they make the rules up as they go along. If some of your neighbors don't like what you're doing its just a matter of time before they talk to the right people and an ordinance is put into place targetting you. Best thing is just to do as you normally would, and take them to court if they go the govt/legal/police route.

My family owns about 350 acres and the one thing I've learned is you don't own property. Things you own you can do with what you want. You could destroy your property if you wanted because its yours. You are merely allowed by govt to live there if you pay your taxes.

I'm talking noise ordinances, building permits, zoning, building codes. I've seen so many cases here in VT about things like people wanting to put up a shed and their neighbors didn't want it, so it didn't happen. You gotta fight tooth and nail just to break ground here. But if you're in the IN crowd, ie you know the powers at be (like the wealthy familys, Pizzagalis, Redstone..) you can get your permits expedited and not contested. I've got a friend in a nearby town that was on the zoning board that told me all this.

sorry for ranting, i feel passionate about this. I'm a firm believer in private property and you should be able to do what you want with your own land. So many americans have made the ultimate sacrifice so we can live in this free country that so many others are currently ruining

[ATVMX33]

as said just try to talk to them about times you can ride....i've done that with one neighbor

[dan harris]

Your in a tough spot for sure. I've been through it. The best advice I can give you, and to anyone else who wants to ride on their own property. Be courteous to your neighbors, do what you can to get along. Don't ride at stupid times, like early in the morning or when people are usually having dinner time. Suck up to them - plow driveways when it snows, cut their grass when you can!! I know it sucks and alot of people will dissagree, but once your neighbors start complaining to the authorities, things get really tough and very expensive. Whats easier, mowing some extra grass and waving to a jerk off you can't stand, or paying lawyers, building fences, going to court - hiring engineers, obtaining permits etc.... Best to avoid it all together by doing a little sucking up !!! I know alot of times that don't work, and sounds like thats too late for your cituation.

The media probally isn't gonna be on your side, but you can try and make your point to them during your interview by having several young kids and their parents riding during the interview. Make sure they are on quiet machines and there is no dust. Make a list of the positive aspects of the sport and talk about that! The last thing you wanna do is come across as some "angry biker" !! Good luck !

[Scottt89]

Where in Carroll is your riding area? I'm on Uniontown Rd, I only have 4 acres but have never had a problem. Of course I really only ride in my yard to test something for a few minutes and my neighbors are all cool with it.

Good luck with the reporters. I do remember hearing a few years back about the law. I think it stated that the neighbor had to be like 100yrds or more away in order to ride anything over a certain sound limit.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by destey
Sorry this is not good advice. The media has an objective. They go to a place with the end result in mind and whatever you say doesn't matter. They will take the 1 sentence out of the 300 you say and use it against you. Do not trust them it is their mission to F you and this sport.

This battle you are fighting is being fought all over the place. Its a war between those who believe in private property and those who think you live to make your neighbors happy. In the end the govt can do whatever they want, they make the rules up as they go along. If some of your neighbors don't like what you're doing its just a matter of time before they talk to the right people and an ordinance is put into place targetting you. Best thing is just to do as you normally would, and take them to court if they go the govt/legal/police route.

My family owns about 350 acres and the one thing I've learned is you don't own property. Things you own you can do with what you want. You could destroy your property if you wanted because its yours. You are merely allowed by govt to live there if you pay your taxes.

I'm talking noise ordinances, building permits, zoning, building codes. I've seen so many cases here in VT about things like people wanting to put up a shed and their neighbors didn't want it, so it didn't happen. You gotta fight tooth and nail just to break ground here. But if you're in the IN crowd, ie you know the powers at be (like the wealthy familys, Pizzagalis, Redstone..) you can get your permits expedited and not contested. I've got a friend in a nearby town that was on the zoning board that told me all this.

sorry for ranting, i feel passionate about this. I'm a firm believer in private property and you should be able to do what you want with your own land. So many americans have made the ultimate sacrifice so we can live in this free country that so many others are currently ruining

so much truth...you never own land...you merely lease it from the government.

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by dan harris
Your in a tough spot for sure. I've been through it. The best advice I can give you, and to anyone else who wants to ride on their own property. Be courteous to your neighbors, do what you can to get along. Don't ride at stupid times, like early in the morning or when people are usually having dinner time. Suck up to them - plow driveways when it snows, cut their grass when you can!! I know it sucks and alot of people will dissagree, but once your neighbors start complaining to the authorities, things get really tough and very expensive. Whats easier, mowing some extra grass and waving to a jerk off you can't stand, or paying lawyers, building fences, going to court - hiring engineers, obtaining permits etc.... Best to avoid it all together by doing a little sucking up !!! I know alot of times that don't work, and sounds like thats too late for your cituation.

The media probally isn't gonna be on your side, but you can try and make your point to them during your interview by having several young kids and their parents riding during the interview. Make sure they are on quiet machines and there is no dust. Make a list of the positive aspects of the sport and talk about that! The last thing you wanna do is come across as some "angry biker" !! Good luck !

I agree completely. I would definately make sure its a family event if the reporters show up. Kinda hard to turn a good ol' fashioned family picnic with a little quadding into a bash fest...but I am sure they will still try.

[destey]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
so much truth...you never own land...you merely lease it from the government.

I REALLY wish it were different. Founding fathers split away from England and spilled their brothers blood over less than the bs we have now.

Incrementalism. You can get anywhere with this. A law here, a law there. It may sound good at the time but freedom is slowly encroached upon. People say things like "I'm for the environment" or "We're just trying to make the streets safer."

Their intentions are good, don't get me wrong. But the results are not.

[slightlybent47]

Originally posted by destey
Sorry this is not good advice. The media has an objective. They go to a place with the end result in mind and whatever you say doesn't matter. They will take the 1 sentence out of the 300 you say and use it against you. Do not trust them it is their mission to F you and this sport.

This battle you are fighting is being fought all over the place. Its a war between those who believe in private property and those who think you live to make your neighbors happy. In the end the govt can do whatever they want, they make the rules up as they go along. If some of your neighbors don't like what you're doing its just a matter of time before they talk to the right people and an ordinance is put into place targetting you. Best thing is just to do as you normally would, and take them to court if they go the govt/legal/police route.

My family owns about 350 acres and the one thing I've learned is you don't own property. Things you own you can do with what you want. You could destroy your property if you wanted because its yours. You are merely allowed by govt to live there if you pay your taxes.

I'm talking noise ordinances, building permits, zoning, building codes. I've seen so many cases here in VT about things like people wanting to put up a shed and their neighbors didn't want it, so it didn't happen. You gotta fight tooth and nail just to break ground here. But if you're in the IN crowd, ie you know the powers at be (like the wealthy familys, Pizzagalis, Redstone..) you can get your permits expedited and not contested. I've got a friend in a nearby town that was on the zoning board that told me all this.

sorry for ranting, i feel passionate about this. I'm a firm believer in private property and you should be able to do what you want with your own land. So many americans have made the ultimate sacrifice so we can live in this free country that so many others are currently ruining



Good point
Yeah now that you mention it the reporters do seem to pick a side and make the other side look as bad as they can. It might be better not to talk to anyone about it. If they want to make you look bad they sure can do it with no worries about stepping on your rights.

[bigH]

Thank you all for the advice and support. We are dealing with an indivdual who feels he isn't being heard by the authorities. We only ride one day during the weekend usually Saturday. We ride from 12-5pm. We have found out that other people utilize the vacant property to ride and the blame gets pinned on us. The police have been beyond supportive in our favor. Since no violations were ever found the calls get immediately squashed. We have decided to take the family down + our lawyer and make a day of it. It discouraging to have to deal with something so trival like how we spend our time when there are much bigger issues in this day and age. Wish us luck.

[destey]

good luck! updates too..

[woodsracer144]

ok dont meet the reporter if you havnt already... they can twist your words in to something else that you didnt even say...

i would get a lawyer in this...
its really sad that this nation has became so sue happy... theres a farmer by me that cant put his cow **** on this fields any more becuase some city folk moved out and complaind about it and they WON! its like come the **** on people you chose to live in a farmin locations! deal with it!

anther is a guy put a Dewalt drilll with the bit up his nose and pull the trigger because " my nose iched and i thought this would make it stop" well Dumb *** ripped half his face off and SUED DEWALT AND WON!

[destey]

Originally posted by woodsracer144

i would get a lawyer in this...
its really sad that this nation has became so sue happy... theres a farmer by me that cant put his cow **** on this fields any more becuase some city folk moved out and complaind about it and they WON! its like come the **** on people you chose to live in a farmin locations! deal with it!


The leftists control the entire govt here in vt. If you want to do something with your land, it'll only happen if your neighbors are ok with it. Neighbors have more say in this state than you do.

[woodsracer144]

well i say that its my ****in land around here and you can suck my cock! my uncle has a lawyer for his farm... he has about 500 Head of milking cows and a load of cow ****!

[rbgnwa45]

The only reason I don't like dirtbike noise is because it reminds me I don't have one. You should be able to do what you want on your property, otherwise why do you pay for it? Send them a box of earplugs or buy a quiet exhaust.

[quad2xtreme]

there is balance to everything. Your rights end when you begin to infringe on another's.

I live on 2.5 acres in a rural area outside of Raleigh. I would be pissed as hell if my neighbor's kids started riding those little 2 stroke carts up and down their driveway. If he can keep the noise on his property then fine...no problem.

Same for dust. The point is there are areas where it makes a difference and areas where it doesn't. When you live within city limits...you expect more restrictions. You don't own land. The government lets you squat on land that belongs to the United States government. You get use of it while you pay taxes...but you don't get full rights to do whatever you want.

The guy is looking for sound advice on how to handle the situation. If he listened to the juveniles on this site who don't know jack**** about the law, he would end up losing his land completely due to lawyer bills and being put in jail.

Want to do some interesting research? Start asking around about what happened to Paragon Adventure Park in Hazelton, PA. You will learn what a local government can do to anyone.

[destey]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
there is balance to everything. Your rights end when you begin to infringe on another's.

I live on 2.5 acres in a rural area outside of Raleigh. I would be pissed as hell if my neighbor's kids started riding those little 2 stroke carts up and down their driveway. If he can keep the noise on his property then fine...no problem.


Telling others what to do.... what a great country we have.

[ddemetrius456]

Originally posted by Black Sheep
unfortunately it doesn't work that way...anymore...I've seen to many of my friends forced to shut down tracks on there own property. Just recently one almost lost his home after the enormous legal fee's almost bankrupt him.


My advise is to hire a lawyer IMEDIATLY!!! Take to offensive before your put on the defensive in court. If you have reporters coming out they, the haters, are already taking steps for legal action. Once the article comes out they will get a lot more support from the naysayers


I am totally agreed with your proposal. It's the best solution of such problem. Because, when the article will come put in the newspaper, then it becomes public. It's the right choice to solve this kind of problem. Thanks a lot.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by destey
Telling others what to do.... what a great country we have.

Just saying I think the rules should be different depending on whether you own a small parcel of land within the city versus a large tract of land in the country. There has to be some level of balance. For example, I had to get a neighbor to fix his septic before I could sell a $680,000 house sitting in 1.5 acres. Without the government, he could have said screw you this is my land and I will **** on the property line if I want.

Imagine living in a townhouse complex and your neighbor owns a 20X20' piece of land in the back and decides to start a fertilizer business.

[louis_mielke]

I live in Carroll County too, actually I think I know the lot/track you're talking about.

I drive by it once in a while and think Gee, man I wish I had an awesome track like that.


It's getting harder and harder to be a atv/bike rider in MD. That's pretty much why I gave up and trailer my stuff to PA and OH to go riding.

I hope you win friend because we need a few more victories in our corner.

Good luck!

[TGW_400ex]

Originally posted by louis_mielke
I live in Carroll County too, actually I think I know the lot/track you're talking about.

I drive by it once in a while and think Gee, man I wish I had an awesome track like that.


It's getting harder and harder to be a atv/bike rider in MD. That's pretty much why I gave up and trailer my stuff to PA and OH to go riding.

I hope you win friend because we need a few more victories in our corner.

Good luck!
Woo 4 month old post!

[louis_mielke]

And the age of the post has relevance to the fact that I felt comradery in this persons problem and that I live nearby and possibly could make a contact in my state of a local rider?

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by louis_mielke
And the age of the post has relevance to the fact that I felt comradery in this persons problem and that I live nearby and possibly could make a contact in my state of a local rider?

A major part of my decision to leave MD for North Carolina was the lack of ATV support. Maryland is a tax hungry state that doesn't provide much service.

[goldfish]

I'm in CC as well, I've been riding at the track behind my house for years now. Although the closest house is still probably 200 yards away. So that might have something to do with why I've never had an issue.

I never even considered not being able to ride on my own land!?

Surprised how many CC'ers there are on here!

[ngates788]

since this was resurrected from the dead, what was the intitial outcome of this whole ordeal?

[Canadian144]

Man at least none of you have had your farm expropriated by the government....the government in Ontario decided that they are going to put a mega-highway connecting Brampton (a large suburb where most of the immigrants from the Middle East in Ontario come, which is ever-expanding) to the 401 (the largest highway in Ontario).

Unfortunately for us, this highway extension will be running dead through the middle of our property. Property values per ace are skyrocketing around Toronto, with the ever-growing population and demand for homes (and suburbs as a result). In 10 years or so, it is estimated to be over $500,000 an acre in the are that I'm in. Of course the government will be buying it from us sometime in the next few years, for an amount that will be below the market, not to mention WAY below what the property will be worth eventually.

We've been looking around to buy another farm now though... probably getting 100 acres (currently have 50) so maybe I will finally be allowed to build an MX track haha.