Gas Gas is the Answer!

[250Renvy]

This almost annoys me about how bad my timing is for this.

It's a longer story than I need to get into but after looking through a dirtwheels magazine for January, I saw a picture or description of a Gas Gas Wild 300.

I've always known they were out there and such but never really looked into them or even considered it because I had my 250R. But with the discontinuation of so many parts I've been looking to alternatives to the 250R - a counterbalanced 2-stroke motor.

Most of my search had lead me to the Kawasaki Tecate, but they are still 20+ years old and were even less popular than any other 2-stroke - even though it's a good motor. The machine overall sucks, but I thought if I could put it into a KFX frame it might be cool.

So after investigating the GAS GAS quad I realized I am a few years too late, they stopped production of the 2-stroke quad in 2006. But that is much less time than 1989, plus the whole quad and motor is like an updated 250R. It's quite awesome the features the 2006 had.
But the best part is that it is a 300 cc powervalve 2-stroke with Reverse.

Gas Gas may be from spain, but they have a large assortment of 2-stroke dirtbikes and enduros. If anybody can save the 2-strokes it's these guys. KTM and Can-am are cool in that they produce a lot of 2-stroke dirt bikes but GAS GAS is the only company that actually produced a QUAD.

If you look at the microfische which took a lot of searching to find, almost everything looks like 250R /Honda design.

I'm not sure the reason they stopped making them, but if I can find one and even if I have to import it. I think I will.

We may even be able to start ordering complete motors and transplant them into 250R's as an alternative.

I wish I would have seen this sooner.

[jcs003]

i like this idea. but i feel pathetic need ing reverse.lol. having had reverse since i was 16 and i sold my warrior to get a banshee.

[C41Xracer]

I got the Jan. 2010 Dirt wheels already and the buyers guide is in
It. Gas gas still produces the 300 2 stroke plus they make a 200cc
Water cooled 2 stroke. So to answer your comment, your not to late
To get one if you wanted to

[C41Xracer]

Also the Dec. 09 atv action has a write up of the gas gas 450
They talk about the 300 and 200 in the article to

[factoryX]

it was leaked that they are coming out with new 2 stroke quads for 2010, along with a bunch of companies releasing there new 2 stroke dirt bikes.

Another problem with these bikes is that they are spendy! and the availability of parts is rivaling the trx250r. you'd be better off taking a yfz450 and putting the 250r motor or a banshee motor in.

But now since 4 stroke is on the decline and sales are way down, some companies are tossing the 2 stroke idea back into the picture.

[C41Xracer]

yeah they are pricey................9k to be exact

[troybilt]

Originally posted by C41Xracer
I got the Jan. 2010 Dirt wheels already and the buyers guide is in
It. Gas gas still produces the 300 2 stroke plus they make a 200cc
Water cooled 2 stroke. So to answer your comment, your not to late
To get one if you wanted to

I have that mag as well. had good things to say about the 300 and 200 2 strokers.

Wish someone on here with the $float$ to go get one. I hear there is a dealer in the North East trying to bring these into the states... We'll see if that happens...

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by troybilt
I have that mag as well. had good things to say about the 300 and 200 2 strokers.

Wish someone on here with the $float$ to go get one. I hear there is a dealer in the North East trying to bring these into the states... We'll see if that happens...


There is a kid that had one at our local mx track. It seemed pretty spunky but the stock plastick looks gay as ****.

[troybilt]

Just checked the USA website they only show the 4 poker that I can see:

http://www.gasgas.com/quads.htm

[250Renvy]

I saw that too. Hopefully for 2010 or later. I am going to do some digging and see what's available and if motors could be ordered complete.

I don't really care for the overall machine, but besides the plastic, it looks like almost everything is a 250R copy/adaptation.

I've heard that the motors are really peppy and rip pretty good.

[Nahum]

I can´t say if GasGas nowadays learned from its past issues and problems they had, escpecially with their engines. Maybe they have changed 180 degrees. I don´t know. I only can tell you what I red again and again in the forums 5 years ago and what two buddies of mine experienced with their GasGas ATVs. The ATVs looked good and very promising with all that aftermarket parts on it but the whole ATV was somethine like crap. They had to do repairs more often then they were riding. Whenever someone tried to sell a used GasGas we all laughed at him and knew that he most probably wasn´t able to sell it or had to accept a big discount. 5 years ago noone of us ever considered buying a GasGas due to all the things I said. I will again state that this is my own personal opinion due to past experiences. Maybe GasGas changed 180 degrees but as far as I am concerned I still would not go with GasGas. And you still don´t see a lot of GasGas ATVs at the races in my country. They are a minority and the reasons for this seem to be the things I said.

[headache]

yeah i doubt that they import them to the U.S. due to the emissions laws. Thats why Yamaha quit making the blaster and banshee in 06. You can find these quads new in other countrys. But even if they did, your going to need a dealer where you can get parts regularly cause lets face it, stuff wears out. from brakes to sprockets and other parts, if you can't get the parts you need the quad is worthless... They look good though, and the 300 should fly for sure! It should be a torque monster!

[jcs003]

not much at all on ebay for any type of gasgas machine.

[sangheraent]

the blaster and banshee is still available here in canada why not get a gas gas bike from canada its probably much easier importing from canada because of NAFTA. Plus theres probably a dealer that can get one in iv seen a few gas gas bikes around the local trails.

[D Bergstrom]

I think the emissions laws would be one concern, they would have to find a way around it. Also, I think parts would also be a problem. Sure, they have a dealer network, but how many of them actually stock parts? I looked, and they have two dealers in Nevada, both in really small towns! I am willing to bet they are small dealers, probably do not stock much of anything. (Then again, my local Honda dealer does not stock anything either.)

I looked at their website also a few weeks ago, the 450 is the only quad they currently make. What are the chances they will make a two stroke version? Even if they did, I do not think I would buy one. Probably still be easier to get parts for a 22 year old 250R then a brand new Gas Gas.

I think the best bet for a two stroke quad would be from KTM. They are still heavily involved in two strokes. Seems like they could take one of their existing two stroke powerplants and put it in the atv frame. Of course, they would have to see a demand for it. Big questions is, is that demand there?

Doug

[250Renvy]

I'm going to look into it.

Despite everything, I think so far it is the best answer to lack of 2-stroke machines. A complete motor should be available to build unlike every other 2-stroke quad which has sporadic parts available.

I'm personally not that interested in anything but the motor. After I look into it I'll know a little better how their parts system works, and what kind of sales they did with these machines. I can't see that the major components would be discontinued already when they've only been out of production for 3 years.

I don't think parts would be hard to get, the only issue would be cost because you may have to order through Uk or direct which means buying in Euros at 1.5x

Also, most of the components are shared with the bikes which are still in production.

As far as reliability - I take that with a grain of salt. I know guys that can blow up a machine every other ride while others can get 20 years out of theirs. It would still be cheaper in the long run than rebuilding 4-strokes every 15 hours.

[troybilt]

Doug, I agree with you on the parts thing, and I too would rather fight my parts problems with my 20 yr trx250r and have Honda reliability... But I don't know if you read the Jan 2010 DW mag or not, but GAS GAS does infact already make a 300cc & 200cc 2 stroke quad, pictures and testing of the quads in the article. Also according to the article these are going to be imported into the US probably this year by a "large" dealer in the North East... FWIW, I wanna say the Boston area, I don't have the mag in front of me... I don't remember exactly.

I don't know crap about the emission's laws and what it takes to import these in. But as long as they are imported as race "only" machines the emissions laws don't mean crap... at least from what I understand... Now does that mean any schmoe with cash can go buy one, IDK... or as Nahum put, if anyone would want too, but that's another discussion.

Speaking of European quad manufactures, doesn anyone remember the VOR 500cc quad that came out back in '01? It had a Doug Roll designed frame based on 250r geometry, (even looked like a 250r) but with a 500cc 4 stroke Italian motor... just curious, was reading and old mag and saw that article thought it was interesting.

[factoryX]

what emission laws? Global warming was proved false! the liberals just won't shut up! this is funny because it lost all support when the information was hacked(why wasn't it available for everyone to see if it was real?) from the UN, and all of its information was false and discredited immediately. Al gores movie is completely made up.:eek2:

[troybilt]

Originally posted by factoryX
what emission laws? Global warming was proved false! the liberals just won't shut up! this is funny because it lost all support when the information was hacked(why wasn't it available for everyone to see if it was real?) from the UN, and all of its information was false and discredited immediately. Al gores movie is completely made up.:eek2:

Don't deny that one bit. BUT EPA still exists....

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by troybilt
But I don't know if you read the Jan 2010 DW mag or not, but GAS GAS does infact already make a 300cc & 200cc 2 stroke quad, pictures and testing of the quads in the article. Also according to the article these are going to be imported into the US probably this year by a "large" dealer in the North East... FWIW, I wanna say the Boston area, I don't have the mag in front of me... I don't remember exactly.


I have not seen that issue yet, my copy of DW always comes late, should be here in a couple of days. I will need to check it out.


Originally posted by troybilt
BUT EPA still exists....

Exactly. From what I understand, the last year a "off road use only" vehicle that is a two stroke could be sold in the US was 2006, hence the reason the Banshee is gone. The reason all the two stroke motorcycles are still sold is because the are labeled "for competition use only'. I guess the law did not apply to racing machines. (Just seems like a word game to me.) So as long as Gas Gas can call it that they should be fine.

Doug

[factoryX]

yamaha is still selling yz250's! there is no law! On a side note, anyone see thee new yz450f? they went back to a 4 valve setup and the motor is backwards. I am not a 4 stroke guy but the motor idea is pretty cool.

[troybilt]

Originally posted by factoryX
yamaha is still selling yz250's! there is no law! On a side note, anyone see thee new yz450f? they went back to a 4 valve setup and the motor is backwards. I am not a 4 stroke guy but the motor idea is pretty cool.

just as Doug said the YZ250 and also Service Honda 2 stroke bikes, are all sold as "for competition use only" basically a loop hole in the law, from what I understand. That doesn't apply to the Banshee or Blaster, cause they were sold as recreation off-road vehicles i.e. ATV or some other different classification of off-road vehicle.... could they have changed the classification on the Banshee and Blaster? ...maybe... ...but basically it is all BS in the end...

[jcs003]

Originally posted by factoryX
yamaha is still selling yz250's! there is no law! On a side note, anyone see thee new yz450f? they went back to a 4 valve setup and the motor is backwards. I am not a 4 stroke guy but the motor idea is pretty cool.

the cannondale is mounted with the intake also in front. interesting concept.

[Nahum]

This are rare photos of the Sachs VOR 500ccm. Sachs never produced this ATV. It was only a prototype.

@Troybilt
Do you mean this ATV???

http://www.bilderspace.de/bild.php/9771,sachsvor01jpgJY1GW.jpg

http://www.bilderspace.de/bild.php/9772,sachsvor02jpgKDTB9.jpg

http://www.bilderspace.de/bild.php/9773,sachsvor03jpgUDIKS.jpg

http://www.bilderspace.de/bild.php/9774,sachsvor04jpgEP62Y.jpg

http://www.bilderspace.de/bild.php/9776,sachsvor05jpgD6SIO.jpg

[troybilt]

Nahum, YES!! thank you very much! I appreciate those photos... I have the Dirt Wheels test magazine from June 2001, which this quad was featured on the cover. I'd scan it in but we all know how that goes on this website... :grr:

The story I've got is this was a full Roll Design chassis based on the 250r. Which it is quite evident that this was based on the 250r just by the looks of it. No-Link rear suspension... This is one quad I'd love to have in my collection, no doubt.

[XXX -rider]

Gas Gas is the Answer!..NOT IMO
I guess you never saw in person ..:o

1st sits too tall would / can never handle like an R ,..if it cant hang it aint ***** ..
theres more but I wont go on ..
if ya want the motor only well thats another entirely different conversation / discussion

[headache]

i think that the law i was talking about is more of a "Tax" than anything which just forced them to quit selling the banshee and blaster in the states. Also the small 2 stroke quads like the predator 90 and lt80 2 strokes also died in 06 too... Damn tree hugging nazis!

[XCredrider]

they tested a ct310r aainst a gas gas before and it did pretty good... it was more of a desert racing comparison but the 300 deffinately held its own against a built 250r... and theres a 300 i can get for no more than $2000 near me that ive been thinkin about taken a look at. who knows it might be a sweet ride

[factoryX]

okay heres a thought, why does it have to be a gas gas motor? and why not a ktm300 motor?

[troybilt]

Originally posted by factoryX
okay heres a thought, why does it have to be a gas gas motor? and why not a ktm300 motor?

I'm betting for the infamous counter-balancer... most dirt bike motors don't have one... I personally don't know about the KTM300 bike whether it does or doesn't.

[250Renvy]

I stand corrected Gas Gas could be the answer but the cost would be prohibitive.

I found a site that listed the parts cost:

To build a motor would cost nearly $10000.
Just some examples of parts costs:

Cylinder $750
Piston $300
Cases $1500
Tranny $1000+
Crank $650
CDI $425

[troybilt]

If I may, could you elaborate on your reasoning for wanting a Gas Gas motor?

[CODY_M11]

I think alot of ppl want it just because its newer technology. Well not really newer technology just newer. And the fact that its a 300 2 stroke. Personaly i would rather stay all honda. That and i just think its cool having a twenty year old quad that still runs amazing. Just my opinion though.

[250Renvy]

Originally posted by troybilt
If I may, could you elaborate on your reasoning for wanting a Gas Gas motor?


So far it's the only thing I could find that is still in production. It's a 300cc powervalve 2-stroke with reverse and boasts 50hp stock.

If you look at the microfische - it's virtually a Honda 250R replica, but has updated features.

Most importantly ALL parts are still available and in production. I would just stick to the 250R, but in the last year, a lot of essential motor parts have been discontinued. Options are running out. I mean sure there are a lot of aftermarket parts, but no transmissions, shift forks, shift drums, cases, kicker pinion gears, clutch gears, counterbalancers. All that seems to be out there now are used beat on parts, unless you spend $4500 on a mint low hour machine and strip it for parts.

[troybilt]

Originally posted by 250Renvy
So far it's the only thing I could find that is still in production. It's a 300cc powervalve 2-stroke with reverse and boasts 50hp stock.

If you look at the microfische - it's virtually a Honda 250R replica, but has updated features.

Most importantly ALL parts are still available and in production. I would just stick to the 250R, but in the last year, a lot of essential motor parts have been discontinued. Options are running out. I mean sure there are a lot of aftermarket parts, but no transmissions, shift forks, shift drums, cases, kicker pinion gears, clutch gears, counterbalancers. All that seems to be out there now are used beat on parts, unless you spend $4500 on a mint low hour machine and strip it for parts.

Kevin, I see what you are saying and I agree 100%. I didn't realize how close the Gas Gas motor was to the TRX.

Just for conversation sake, if it could be done what do you think of a counter-balanced CR motor? either 500 bottom end or 250 bottom end? I'm not saying it CAN be done.... yet... but just want to hear other's thoughts on the idea. I'm not talking cobbling up some CR cases, I mean ground up new casting design with a counter-balancer like a TRX setup.

[250Renvy]

Originally posted by troybilt
Kevin, I see what you are saying and I agree 100%. I didn't realize how close the Gas Gas motor was to the TRX.

Just for conversation sake, if it could be done what do you think of a counter-balanced CR motor? either 500 bottom end or 250 bottom end? I'm not saying it CAN be done.... yet... but just want to hear other's thoughts on the idea. I'm not talking cobbling up some CR cases, I mean ground up new casting design with a counter-balancer like a TRX setup.


I thought about the counterbalanced CR motor and like the idea. I like the idea of reverse though on the Gas Gas. I tried to get interest in it, but it seems most people would be more interested in preserving their 250R's. Some things that would be a good update with the CR250 is a more powerful powervalve motor, all the parts are still available, cr250 ignition already in it, quick change cover built in, Rekluse available.

You would have to be an engineer or work someplace that could develop the castings then also come up with the counterbalancer since nobody makes them anymore.

[troybilt]

Originally posted by 250Renvy
You would have to be an engineer or work someplace that could develop the castings then also come up with the counterbalancer since nobody makes them anymore.

exactly... :D

I think the biggest advantage is all of the parts are still available thru normal Honda dealers and outlets.

[250Renvy]

So I've been looking into this and it turns out the parts are a little more reasonably priced than I had thought.

But when you consider that the dealer network is growing - I think we should all go to our local dealer and ask about them making 2-stroke quads or get them available for special order.

I'm trying to get my hands on one to see how it feels, but after searching Craigslist have found there are a number of them for sale.

They are relatively cheap - but so far far away from me.

I'm thinking if we could even get motors built because they are so similar to the bikes, just added counterbalancer and such that we could have motors to put in other frames.

ALL the parts are available, if we just got more people involved, the used parts would become available as well.

WE KNOW that HONDA has given up on making parts so lets support or give attention to a company that has produced a 2-stroke quad.

BTW I saw an article or interview with them and they said they basically copied the 250R and made some adjustments and updates.

[woodsracer144]

theres a guy on youtube with a CR500 that he put a CB in it... its a neat design, i'll see if i cant find it for you guys..

[troybilt]

Yeah, plz do. A cb'd CR500R would be the end-all discussion motor. ;)

[woodsracer144]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS_jT8TdHGE

[Langbolt]

Hey Kevin,

I found some cool pics of a 2003 300 Wild.......Very similiar to the 250R indeed.

Too bad we can't get anyone to make cases.....I wonder if Eddie Sanders is gonna go that route since he makes his own cylinders now ?

Or even the guys that make the Puma/Cheetah etc.....they have the technolgy to make 21 Century cases.

They could update it for a Hydraulic slave cylinder (like the KTM's) so we'd have a hydraulic clutch.....and even make the cases a bit thicker for those CR500 cranks ??? and them have several STUD pattern options for Polhonda's, Pilots, Rotax 800's or Cr500 cylinders ???

I've thought of billet cases.....but whenever I talk about it to my machinist friends they think I'm on glue......they tell me the machine time & cost is crazy!

I tell ya if I win the lottery I'm gonna re-devolope the 250R and re introduce it!!! I gotta have something to do right!

:D

[Langbolt]

:D

[Langbolt]

Enigine

[Langbolt]

Brakes

[Langbolt]

Swingarm

[fastrnrik]

Originally posted by woodsracer144
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS_jT8TdHGE

Any more info on this creation?

[troybilt]

Originally posted by Langbolt
:D

man from those pics the GasGas thing looks pretty good!

I'm with you on re-developing the 250r! I just need to win the lottery too...

I heard talk of someone trying to make billet cases, but you're right the machine time would be huge, to just do this out of a block of aluminum, then have it heat treated later $$$$ ...but there is more than one way to skin a cat... :D:D

Has anyone ever tried using an external engine dampner (i.e. tuned mass dampner) on a none-CB'd motor in a quad frame? ..this is a different school of thought entirely from a counterbalancer...

[woodsracer144]

Originally posted by fastrnrik
Any more info on this creation?

no i dont, i can e-mail the guy and see what i can get out of him...

[skyeryder]

I talked to the Gas Gas reps at the Indy Dealer show this weekend and they made it clear that the quad was on hold 4-stroke and 2-stroke. Obviously they blamed the economy. The first guy I asked looked at me like I was crazy, but the other two were willing to talk about it.:( :(

[jcs003]

looks like a deal:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260552683378&viewitem=&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D1&category=6726

[Langbolt]

Hey 250Renvy!

Check this out!

http://www.gasgaspacific.com/dealers.php

Turns out there's a dealer in St Catherines.

:devil:

[250Renvy]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to have one of these within the month.

I'm starting to get tired of getting snaked on all these good 250R's only to have them parted.

I feel bad for the guys who want one but can't build anything decent because prices have gotten so out of hand lately.

After talking to lots of guys who have these, the consensus is that they are built well, put out lots of HP and lug like a 4-stroke and scream like a 2-stroke. Once I get one, I'll post a report. Although I won't have much to compare it too since I've never ridden a 300 pv 250R before.

Also, word is that the 200 and 300 are going to be here around FALL - it'll be $8999
<left>
http://www.dirtwheelsmag.com/Media/News/33%20GAS%20GAS%20200-300.jpg
</left>

GAS GAS 300/200 ($8999/$8999)
The world of two-stroke, full-size ATVs is small indeed. The Spanish company Gas Gas is one of the few left. The Gas Gas 200 and 300 are based on the same motor, which was taken from the company's off-road motorcycle line. Both are racing oriented, with full nerf bars and race wheels offered stock.

GAS GAS WILD 200/300
Engine type ... Liquid-cooled, two-stroke
Displacement ... 199cc/299cc
Fuel delivery ... Keihin carburetor
Starting ... kick
Transmission ... 6-speed
Final drive ... Chain
Fuel capacity ... 3.2 gal
Wheelbase ... na
Length/width/height ... na.
Ground clearance ... na
Claimed weight ... na
Suspension/wheel travel:
Front ... Dual A-arm/na in.
Rear ... Single shock/na in.
Brakes:
Front ... Dual disc
Rear ... Disc
Tires:
Front ... 21x7-10
Rear ... 20x11-9
Retail price ... $8999/$8999

[8686]

Sweet. Be sure to post pics of yours within the next couple weeks when you get it.

[250Renvy]

Well, I finally got it.

It is a used quad and has been raced and is completely setup wrong for me so I have my initial impressions, but I will give another report if/when I get it setup properly.

So first off, this thing is crazy fast compared to what I am used to riding. It seems like it can handle the slower pace of trails and such as it didn't feel like it needed to push the gas when going slower. Once you get on the gas though, it opens up and screams. I'm sure once I get used to it, it'll feel like it needs more power, but initially that is how it felt.

The hydraulic clutch is like butter compared to most of my other 250R's.

IT HAS REVERSE.

The machine is very wide and feels hard to steer - I haven't decided how I'm going to fix that yet as there are no a-arms available for these. The front shocks are Ohlins 19" which is pretty cool. I should have lots of adjustability if I get them revalved.

Unfortunately the kick start is broken on this machine so I will need to get that fixed before I go on any longer rides. The wiring is all mangled and I will have to sort through that to see if the fan works.

The down side of the first impression could be a big negative, but we will see. After about 15 minutes of riding and getting on the gas, my hands and inner thigh was getting tingly - presumably from vibrations. It's counterbalanced so I'm not sure why it would have vibration issues, but I'll need to look into it further. I'm planning on getting the shock and vibe so we'll see if that helps.

Here are some pics: I'll get more later.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/Other/th_209.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/Other/?action=view&current=209.jpg)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/Other/th_210.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/Other/?action=view&current=210.jpg)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/Other/th_211.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/Other/?action=view&current=211.jpg)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/Other/th_212.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/Other/?action=view&current=212.jpg)

[C41Xracer]

You might want to contact GT Thunder, they used to offer a-arms when the quad first came out. He might have a set left

[jcs003]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290418770384&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

here might be a good spare bike to transplant what you might need.

[Langbolt]

Hey Kevin,

Congrats!!!!!

:devil:

[250rPRIDE]

cool bike, keep the info coming on it i am curious..

how hard is it to find parts and dealers for these bikes?

[jcs003]

Originally posted by 250rPRIDE
cool bike, keep the info coming on it i am curious..

how hard is it to find parts and dealers for these bikes?

funny thing. there is a bike dealer near my house that i didnt know was there for two years that i lived in my house. i evenyually came across them and looked around. they sell husquarvna. so, im looking around and see a gasgas sign in the window and ask if they sell them. the guy said they just stopped selling them last year. wtf! he said they had a couple of gasgas 300 wild hp's and couldnt get rid of them. man if i would of known last year i would have one.

[8686]

Damn that thing is ugly. Looks like a KFX400 and it soulds like it handles worse than a KFX400. It looks like the ergos put you sitting way up on top of it. I look forward to another "report" on it, but it doesn't sound or look like the "answer".

-vibes are awful
-looks terrible
-handles terrible

And this was supposed to be better than a 250R?

[250Renvy]

Everybody has their own taste, but it actually looks a lot better in person IMO.

Considering I have a LTZ400, I can definitely say that it handles better than the LTZ.

The ergos aren't that bad. For me the handlebars are a bit too low, so I'll likely put on some higher bend bars. The seat doesn't feel high, but the front is too wide.

As far as "The Answer" that is in reference to the company. As you can see from the pic of the 2010 GasGas 300, they changed the design so we'll see if that comes out this fall.
It's the answer because with some refinements it could be as good or better than the 250R - especially what you get for the price.

The vibrations - it could simply be the counterbalancer or timing is off. Once I have it checked out I'll know more.

Chromoly frame
Brembo brakes with steel braided lines
Hydraulic Clutch
Quick change cover
300 pv motor
FMF sytle pipe - not a big /heavy steel unit
Anti-vibe stem
Ohilins shocks
Chromly adjustable axle with antifade hub
Razr tires
Keihn 38mm carb
V-force reeds

ALL Stock.

[All250R]

Kevin, what is the dry weight on these things?

[8686]

Originally posted by All250R
Kevin, what is the dry weight on these things?

I don't know what year his is, but the 2005 claimed 363 lb dry weight.

[250Renvy]

I'm not sure what the dry weight is, but it has a 4.5 gallon gas tank and it adds quite a bit of weight.

I'm tempted to start taking this apart since after taking some measurements, it seems like everything 250R would mount up on here.

A-arms seem the same
Shock mounts seem the same
Motor spacer in the swingarm seems the same
Bearing carrier size is the same
Swingarm length and rear shock linkage seems the same.

It seems like all the measurements are off a 250R however I don't want to take it apart to find they don't fit.

The front measures 53" wide.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by 250Renvy
I'm not sure what the dry weight is, but it has a 4.5 gallon gas tank and it adds quite a bit of weight.

I'm tempted to start taking this apart since after taking some measurements, it seems like everything 250R would mount up on here.

A-arms seem the same
Shock mounts seem the same
Motor spacer in the swingarm seems the same
Bearing carrier size is the same
Swingarm length and rear shock linkage seems the same.

It seems like all the measurements are off a 250R however I don't want to take it apart to find they don't fit.

The front measures 53" wide.

I know hte front end is the same... dont know about anything else haha

[troybilt]

Does a 250r QT hood fit? I saw this picture and thought it sweet with the aftermarket hood...

[C41Xracer]

That looks like a 400ex hood. The bottom of the hood is narrower and more round. I could be wrong though

[250Renvy]

I've seen a few with hoods.

There's this one:
http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab129/puntini/IMG_0115.jpg

[zedicus00]

the A-arms mount the same, they are +2 compared to stock 250R arms. directly swapable. i dont remember if it is +2 per side or +2 total.

front shocks are same length and mount, they swap.

swinger is the same and will swap. (i dont remember if it is 86-87 or 88-89)

frame dimensions are like 99% exact right down to the bolt holes. i think the motor mount area for the front mounts was moved do to a different motor width. its been a while since i looked at it all.

if you like a 250R and ride a gasgas that handles terribly then it just is not set up for you. they are all but identical.

there was even a company that made a plastic conversion, or mounts or something. but you ended up with a gasgas that looked like 250R plastic.

rear shock and linkage is the same as one of the years, i remember thinking it was an odd length because it was the same as an 86 when the swinger was more like an 88, or vice versa. memory is a little fuzzy, was probably 6 yrs since i was messing with this stuff.

[Honda 250r 001]

heres a picture of a bare frame if anyone cares.

I wonder how many there selling and how the company is doing. If people buy them, they will keep selling them! This may be the only thing us 2-stroke lovers will have to ride in 10-15 years! Anyone have any better pictures of it? underside?

[All250R]

Originally posted by 8686
I don't know what year his is, but the 2005 claimed 363 lb dry weight.
kinda heavy... I just read that the 450 version has 367, but it has all this other stuff on it that the R doesn't it sounds like, like nerfs and other knick knacks.

I own 3 complete R's and a dyno chassis (I need a dyno more though). I'm pretty stocked on parts for the Honda... If gasgas doesn't market the 2stroke, their 450 will be the flagship I'm sure. Not to be a downer, but I lack enthusiasm for mainstream powersports. I used to love going down to the dealer and browsing... I don't even go anymore. If I ever get the suicidal tendency to do it, I'll get a street bike in the form of a 90's NSR250.

[jcs003]

Originally posted by All250R
kinda heavy... I just read that the 450 version has 367, but it has all this other stuff on it that the R doesn't it sounds like, like nerfs and other knick knacks.

I own 3 complete R's and a dyno chassis (I need a dyno more though). I'm pretty stocked on parts for the Honda... If gasgas doesn't market the 2stroke, their 450 will be the flagship I'm sure. Not to be a downer, but I lack enthusiasm for mainstream powersports. I used to love going down to the dealer and browsing... I don't even go anymore. If I ever get the suicidal tendency to do it, I'll get a street bike in the form of a 90's NSR250.

i agree. everything is basically a cookie cutter design.

i would like a rz350. i always liked the kenny roberts replica.

[cdrookie]

gas gas probably has the smallest market share here in the US. they'll fade away just like cannondale did. the general public fears change, that's why the satellite companies will never reach the sales of the japanese manufacturers. the mentality of " my dad had a us90 back in 1977 and it ran great till 2005 when i ran it over with the truck, so honda is the best" is prevalent.

if you go over to the ds forum and read about the 257 rotax that allegedly was suppose to be put in the ds instead of the 450, that would be the answer!

[All250R]

Originally posted by cdrookie
gas gas probably has the smallest market share here in the US. they'll fade away just like cannondale did. the general public fears change, that's why the satellite companies will never reach the sales of the japanese manufacturers. the mentality of " my dad had a us90 back in 1977 and it ran great till 2005 when i ran it over with the truck, so honda is the best" is prevalent.

if you go over to the ds forum and read about the 257 rotax that allegedly was suppose to be put in the ds instead of the 450, that would be the answer!
I would have completely agreed with you until I saw how fast they were able to make 4strokes the supercross bike of choice. That happening virtually overnight completely surprised me - 4strokes as an MX bike. Remember when that would have been joke?

[zedicus00]

Originally posted by All250R
I would have completely agreed with you until I saw how fast they were able to make 4strokes the supercross bike of choice. That happening virtually overnight completely surprised me - 4strokes as an MX bike. Remember when that would have been joke?

when you stick a rule in place to ban the use of 'old products' and threaten the manufactures race divisions with EPA regs and rules. then finally bribe the last hold outs with cold hard cash. that overnight thing tends to happen.

you know some of the magazines were even paid to stop putting articles about 250R's in them.

on a warm and fuzzy note, the big names did not burn off 2-stroke tech. supposedly in an underground room with 10 foot thick concrete walls and a level 6 security card they developing the next gen of 2-strokes. it will pass EPA inspection and it WILL rape 4-strokes.