DS 450 model year changes,hesitation, and racer kit?

[beezer]

I was thinking about purchasing a can-am ds450, but after test riding a leftover '08 model, I have some questions. First, I am getting conflicting answers on the technical updates made to the '09 and '10 models from the first '08 model (f.i. mapping,clutch,etc.). Also, I noticed during the test ride a hesitation at part throttle that the dealer couldn't explain. Last, I was wondering if the available free x-team racer performance kit is worth losing the 6 mo. warranty and what is the difference between the included race ecm and the stock ecm. Thanks.

[250racer2010]

if its the same racer package my friend got on his 09 ds 450xxc which includes the motoworks exhaust and the race ecm and a shock package for like 400 dollars its well worth loosing the warrenty the race ecm makes a world of difference imo really there isnt anything else u would need to just go race.

[comander420]

I have an 08 X that I traded the warranty for the stage 1 kit and the $1000 parts credit. I Noticed right after I got my stuff that the case was cracked, but that was a gamble I was willing to accept. I tigged up the case and it should be stronger there now than before. And the race ecu and the slip-on make a night and day difference in the power of the machine. I think it 10 more horse, not sure though. Plus I was able to get a parts manual all the clutch update parts and still have $500 credit left at the dealer for other parts that I may need. Also you can pick up the anti-vibe stem for $75. And the racer support package comes with the 4 bearing axle carrier and bearings, radiator louver, and some other goodies. If your willing to take that gamble then go for it I did.

[LTMFB]

Not to hijack your thread...but is the upgraded shocks worth it, or should I just keep the 450x package shocks on it?

Also...I've NEVER raced before, what is the likelihood that I would NOT get approved?

[ds450xracer]

Originally posted by comander420
Plus I was able to get a parts manual all the clutch update parts and still have $500 credit left at the dealer for other parts that I may need.

Hey Commander you got your clutched fixed by using your parts credit so you really didnt have to pay anything out of pocket?

[comander420]

That is correct. You can use it for any Can-Am parts at retail. I picked up the manual, the cover, the hub, gaskets, plate, and all the seals in the cover and none of it came out of my pocket. I still have to install all the stuff but it seems pretty easy.

[TNT]

What amazes me about these warrantee questions I read time and time is who else is willing to let you race thier quad and at the same time give you $1000's in compensation?

Look at any other OEM warantee the sec you race or say the word warrantee is void. Reason: Can't cover racing, too many do mods they know nothing about that can take the quad out of configuration or design intent. No OEM wants to eat that cost and I don't blame them.

[comander420]

Voiding the warranty for racing is no different han buying a motocross bike (KX, CR, YZ, RM, etc) brand new, no warranty on a brand new machine because it was made to race.

[beezer]

Thanks, but what about specific technical updates (clutch,ecm,cases,etc.) on '09,'10 models from '08? Also, the hesitation at low RPM? Last, is cutting pink wire basically the same as race ecm mapping?

[comander420]

Depending on when is was built (you can tell by the serial number) it may or may not need the clutch update. The case cracking was suppossedly only in the 08 case so I guess just look and make sure your engine was actually built in 09 and not 08. As for the hseistation I have no idea what you are talking about. Mine never had that and I haven;t heard of anyone who bought one with hesitation. Maybee try a different one. The pink wire richens up the air/fuel but it may still have the limp modes in it. I think the race ECU has the limp modes removed or whatever triggers them is higher. Mine has never went off.

[250racer2010]

Originally posted by TNT
What amazes me about these warrantee questions I read time and time is who else is willing to let you race thier quad and at the same time give you $1000's in compensation?

Look at any other OEM warantee the sec you race or say the word warrantee is void. Reason: Can't cover racing, too many do mods they know nothing about that can take the quad out of configuration or design intent. No OEM wants to eat that cost and I don't blame them.


thats y i like my suzuki warrenty i can race and change anything on the quad except bore it over and its all covered

[coryatver]

Originally posted by 250racer2010
thats y i like my suzuki warrenty i can race and change anything on the quad except bore it over and its all covered

yeah even if it says in the fine print it voids the warrantee if I race my new 450r and crack my case you better believe it is going to the dealer for a new one under warranty.

I know a guy a while ago who raced a 04 yfz and blew it up 3 times and he got the motor replaced under warranty each time.

I would seriously just contact an aftermarket company like bcs performance and get the parts through them and not do the race support. Especially with the issues that are turning up with these quads like the case cracking.

You should still be able to do contingency and keep your warranty.

[TNT]

I'd imagine Suk has it's hands full w/3rd gear claims/etc HON crank and bearing’s/etc, and can't imagine they could afford to take in high quantites of failures due to racing mods that would bancrupt them, common let’s think about this for a sec, if you put out a quad and allowed every tom, dick, and jane to modify it anyway they want and warantee it you won’t be in business long. There is always the exception to the rules and we have seen Can-am cover race quads that are not in warrantee and on top of that offer racer benefits and support programs, still all and all unsurpassed 2nd to none!

[LTMFB]

So I went to test ride an 08 DS450x today. It didn't feel as strong as I'd thought but its been a while since I've been on a quad. The only other ones I ridden are my friends YFZ that have $13000~ into them so of course they will perform well.

It was manufactured/built in Jan 08, what recalls, issues do I need to worry about?

[LTMFB]

So the dealer called me back today and said that they were NOT going to sale the bike w/the race package because BRP will charge them $400 for the $1K account that I would get and $700 for the FREE stage 1 engine kit that I would get....and many others have already rec'd.

Does this sound right? Why would BRP send that out and then make the dealerships pay for it? Is this guy talkin out of his *****??? Let me know if any of you have heard of this.

FYI...I was looking at getting the bike for $5500 OTD w/the aftermarket parts added on top of that price that I would outright pay for...

[gump]

Originally posted by LTMFB
So the dealer called me back today and said that they were NOT going to sale the bike w/the race package because BRP will charge them $400 for the $1K account that I would get and $700 for the FREE stage 1 engine kit that I would get....and many others have already rec'd.

Does this sound right? Why would BRP send that out and then make the dealerships pay for it? Is this guy talkin out of his *****??? Let me know if any of you have heard of this.

FYI...I was looking at getting the bike for $5500 OTD w/the aftermarket parts added on top of that price that I would outright pay for...
man don't pay that were fixing to go get 2 in tn for $4300 otd and the support !!!

[Racers Dad 37]

Is this the dealer 1st Racer Support Sale they may not know.
The $400 is the dif. in Retail to Cost on Parts so they will got it back as you spend the $1000 on parts that why you account is setup with the saleing dealer. They will also be get the $700 back when they return the stock ECU.Suggest they call BRP and look in to this.You will love the Can Am spend the time to set it up correctly and if the BRP Racer Support and The DEALERS SUPPORT in your area is any thing like it is up there in the Northeast for get the warrantee.
$5500 must be a MX $4300 most likely not

[LTMFB]

So you're saying that the MX models are going for $5500? HOLY CRAP! Maybe I'll have to shop around some more. LOL.

Thanks for the replies though, I figured the dealer wasn't quite spun up on the promotion!

[bugmenot2]

Who is your dealer?

[LTMFB]

ADS Motorsports in Ogden, UT. THey are great so I'm not trying to blast them i just don't think they know much about the program

[LTMFB]

I actually found a great dealer the other day that is more than willing to do the racer program. They also have a great service facility and are only 45 minutes from my house.

So anyone in the Utah area...call High Adventure in Salt Lake City for a great deal. They have 1 08 DS450x left and a 09 xxc for $6199.

Not trying to plug for them but they were very nice, knowledgeable and willing to help.

I'm just excited about getting one w/the 50" package now! WOOHOO! Monday starts the paperwork and recalls!

[beezer]

I just found out that the shift pawls and the axle carrier also were maybe updated in '09. Is this true?

[ZX11]

Originally posted by beezer
I just found out that the shift pawls and the axle carrier also were maybe updated in '09. Is this true?

Yes. Shift fork I think and more bearings in the 09 carrier. I think the 08 has three bearings vs. four in the 09.

[LTMFB]

So will this be part of the recall?

[xrxmxcx]

It is not covered in recall. The bearing update was for the 50'' wide quads. The stock bearing carrier is 100% perfect for the 46'' stock width. The shift pawls did change but that is an obsolete change with no real benefit. The only way you can get the clutch update done to your 2008-mid2009 bike is if your dealer does it PDI, and takes note of a "squealing" noise when using the clutch POST SALE DEALER INSPECTION.

[LTMFB]

Thanks for the info. So if I am getting the racer package to go to 50" do I need to be concerned, or do I not replace the carrier when I replace the axle to the new adjustable one?

[Racers Dad 37]

You will get a 4 bearing carrier in the Racer Stage One Kit

[TNT]

I was just looking at the bearing carrier we just bent a 09 axle since RPM told me they go out often, not sure if they were referring to the 08, probably. I kept the stock 09 carrier and put a RPM Dom 2 on. I chose the solid Dom 2, weighs 17lb, over the stock that weighs about 13lbs, and Axcaliber weighs 18 lbs and cost $100 more than DOM 2. How Axcaliber can design a heavier HOLLOW axle than RPM solid and want $100 more is beyond me and I told them that, and goes to show how the design can vary drastically! Have yet to see how the additional 4lbs feels, nice thing about DOM is they use Hon sprockets which are cheap (well $50) and readily available.

What baffles me about all this is why OEMs don’t subcontract out axle companies that have been building them for years and warrantee them for life, so we have axles that hold up. Not sure I agree hollow axles are the answer to save weight unless you know what your doing, obviously not for us. I’m disappointed we had to add 4-lbs at this location but I was not going back to stock which is as costly just to break again, being an axle arm that needs to move freely that far away from the CG. The CG and handling qualities of this quad is what sets it aside from the competition, but not at the expense of axles that don’t hold up to A-class riding. Now with the additional 4lbs, I am concerned about the bearing carrier load and will be replacing it w/RPM soon as I got the $. New axle, carrier, sprocket, new chain reqd.....Total cost, $800+ plus our time and labor... :rolleyes:...now it has a life time warrantee. Just hope the "extended reach AL wheel hubs" are not next.

[mhill157]

It may be really expensive but go with the RPM honda carrier and axle kit. I have not had a problem with that setup and used honda parts are easy to come by.


P.S. THANK YOU Can Am for all your help with my motor problems.

[xrxmxcx]

TNT, I'm not sure if there have been many axle failure's. BUT I will say that I know of many people and professional race teams that have been using the factory 50'' axles with plenty of time and abuse on them with little to no failures. I have seen and have first hand bent/broke axle's and it happens (including DOM2, LSR, Dura-snap)

[TNT]

Originally posted by mhill157
It may be really expensive but go with the RPM honda carrier and axle kit. I have not had a problem with that setup and used honda parts are easy to come by.


P.S. THANK YOU Can Am for all your help with my motor problems.


What do you mean I got the RPM DS450 axle kit that uses a HON sprocket but the axle is a DS axle that fits all the DS stock parts except the sprocket, they have a carrier thats same as stock so does axcaliber both supposedly stronger.



Originally posted by xrxmxcx
TNT, I'm not sure if there have been many axle failure's. BUT I will say that I know of many people and professional race teams that have been using the factory 50'' axles with plenty of time and abuse on them with little to no failures. I have seen and have first hand bent/broke axle's and it happens (including DOM2, LSR, Dura-snap)

Yeah maybe that’s true it can happen to any quad but DOM says they been selling well. We did it to a stock YAM, Dom1(never DOM 2 in 3 yrs of hard racing own -2). We’ve owned DOMs since 84 and they have come a long way since the DOM 1. We did case this jump last weekend pretty good on the DS but I still say that we’d all be better off if we had lifetime warranted axles supplied to the OEM assy line for these cases. DOM and Axcaliber are still selling obviously or they’d stop making them. I can’t imagine the cost being much more since I bet these axle companies would give substantial discounts to the OEM and they warrantee their axles for life since they specialize in them and have the design history. The difference the OEM won't warrantee after race usage DOM/Axcaliber do, so they make better axles to not eat the cost on claims. This idea takes the OEM out of the loop...I wasn’t picking on the DS design per-say, my comments were meant in general to all OEM’s.

[mhill157]

by TNT
What do you mean I got the RPM DS450 axle kit that uses a HON sprocket but the axle is a DS axle that fits all the DS stock parts except the sprocket, they have a carrier thats same as stock so does axcaliber both supposedly stronger.
The kit I bought uses all honda parts, sprocket, hubs, antifade, and brake rotor.

[LTMFB]

How hard is the axle swap? I plan on buying all the accessories in the race kit and want to try to install it all myself. It shouldn't be too bad and I'll buy a manual but from experience......?

[blaster99]

the can-am has the easiest axle to change. It takes about 10 min. to get it out.

[LTMFB]

Very cool. It'll be a project for me to change to the 50" package and the stage 1 kit as well as a great time to teach the kid how to use tools and work on bikes!

[Racers Dad 37]

Each Kit The Stage One, 50'' Kit, Stem and Shocks all come with good instructions Fallow them and you be alright. Only 3 thing I can think of that are hard at all
1 Getting the rear hub nuts off without a impact gun
2 Torqueing the Axle nut without the correct BRP tool
3 Grinding the upper frame for rear shock.
After doing my 1st one did 2nd ( a team mate ) from Stock to finish all kits in 16 hours.
Also when you get the Kits everything needs to be put together
Ball joints and all brg needed to be pressed in A-arms, Bearing Carrier brg. and saels, axle hub even the shocks are all apart. Take your time duel check everything torque and loctite it will pay off on race day

[LTMFB]

Originally posted by Racers Dad 37
1 Getting the rear hub nuts off without a impact gun
2 Torqueing the Axle nut without the correct BRP tool
3 Grinding the upper frame for rear shock.
Ball joints and all brg needed to be pressed in A-arms, Bearing Carrier brg. and saels, axle hub even the shocks are all apart. Take your time duel check everything torque and loctite it will pay off on race day

1. impact is good!
2. what correct BRP tool
3. do you HAVE to grind the upper frame for rear shock? IF I had the dealer do some of this would they know to do that? If not, what are the repercussions for NOT grinding the frame?

Will I have to FIND someone to press them in, or how does that work?

[Racers Dad 37]

Originally posted by LTMFB
1. impact is good!
2. what correct BRP tool
3. do you HAVE to grind the upper frame for rear shock? IF I had the dealer do some of this would they know to do that? If not, what are the repercussions for NOT grinding the frame?

Will I have to FIND someone to press them in, or how does that work?

The axle nut torqueing tool is a special Bombardier Recreationial Products (BRP) shop tool you can order from your dealer

Some have damage rear shock on hard landing when the top of the shock movement is restricted by the frame casting cavity for the shock. In the case of your PEP Shock they will not even fit in with out grinding to grind or not is up to you maybe other have in put.

Maybe you can get the dealer to do all the pressing when you can take and put the assy. on the quad?

[LTMFB]

I'll have to chat w/them about that.

Another question....are the upgraded shocks in the racer package worth the $$

[xrxmxcx]

1. Yes they are worth it.
2. You can't use your old shocks anyways, they wont fit.

[HOBS DS450]

Darn, I was really hoping that Can Am would extend some support to people that already have them.

Guess I just missed out.

[LTMFB]

HOBS....I believe you can still apply through your dealer for the race program